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(TIL)   Police forced to muzzle police dogs so they don't bite fleeing or attacking suspects, who will then sue the police for damages. Your dog wants a nice chianti with some fava beans... fff fff fff fff (w/pic)   (thisislondon.co.uk) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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8167 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Oct 2006 at 1:01 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



102 Comments     (+0 »)


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2006-10-15 7:13:40 PM  
If you are evading/hiding/etc from the cops to the point where they warn you they are releasing the dog and the dog bites you, that is your own damn fault.
 
2006-10-15 9:11:52 PM  
They clearly need to start using sheep instead.
 
2006-10-15 10:45:42 PM  
Newxt they'll have to use dog puppets like TRIUMPH.

"Here he comes.......he's gonnnnnnaaaa get you....ROWR!"
 
2006-10-15 11:57:49 PM  
Personally, I think they should be issued those new bee muzzle modules, so that when they bite the suspects... you know. Or at least a head-mounted remote-controlled video camera and taser.

I know enough dogs that when over playful sometimes use tactics like a paws-together solar plexus pounce, more effectively than the proposed tactics here.
 
2006-10-16 12:45:25 AM  
Hannibal approves of this thread.

[image from movieforum.com too old to be available]
 
2006-10-16 12:49:47 AM  
But critics say it is another example of political correctness gone mad - putting the rights and safety of criminals before cutting crime and protecting the public.


Wrong.

These dogs can easily tear the flesh off on your arm or leg, leaving you with permanent scars or nerve damage. That is farking excessive in my book.

These dogs could easily be trained to entangle a fleeing suspect. Its not that hard to trip them up if you get between their legs while they're sprinting.
 
2006-10-16 1:04:42 AM  
Attack dogs can be trained t grab and hold. I have never heard of use of police dogs NOT being abused when it came to attacking subjects.
 
2006-10-16 1:05:17 AM  
Easy solution: Tasers for dogs. What, they're smart, they can learn how to use them!
 
2006-10-16 1:06:05 AM  
[image from upload.wikimedia.org too old to be available]

munnff muffnnnfnff...
 
2006-10-16 1:09:37 AM  
"Stop or we'll release these fast yet completely useless dogs!"

Hmm. Doesn't seem right to me. I was under the persuasion that's what they were trained for in the first place; biting, harming, halting, you know.. those sorts of things
 
2006-10-16 1:11:03 AM  
I'm guilty, your honor. Guilty of smelling like my sock.
 
2006-10-16 1:11:54 AM  
MutedDNA: Oooohhh, sexy!!
 
2006-10-16 1:13:06 AM  
You break the law, suffer the consequences.
 
2006-10-16 1:14:56 AM  
Why not stap cauldrons of burning pitch to their backs and let them run between the legs!
 
2006-10-16 1:14:58 AM  
Dinjiin

So what you're saying is, that police dogs should be trained to attempt to be kicked by a fleeing suspect. Because that's literally what you're proposing here; the dog gets under the legs of a running person to try and make them fall down. It might even work, but what I can promise you would happen is the dogs would end up injured almost every time. Broken bones, internal injuries etc. All so that someone who is already *fleeing from law enforcement* doesn't get a dog bite. Sheesh.

People can be permanently injured when they're tackled by a human law enforcement officer as well. This isn't Star Trek, people don't just fall down unhurt after you shoot them with a phaser. The use of force *always* carries with it the risk of serious injury. The next time you're running from the cops, you should bear that in mind.
 
2006-10-16 1:15:03 AM  
This is definitely the wrong direction to be going. It might injure the criminal? Oh no...poor baby. I have an idea....DON'T RUN FROM THE farkING POLICE. fark, I say sharpen the dog's teeth with a metal file. In addition, a police dog's main form of defense are his teeth. I can see more dogs being injured because of this moronic BS, and in my book, that police dog is worth much more to me than some crook's leg.
 
2006-10-16 1:15:07 AM  
[image from home.comcast.net too old to be available]
 
2006-10-16 1:17:02 AM  
Pretty soon they'll just not have the dogs anymore, since they'll be that much less effective in bringing down a suspect that it'll be too much for the upkeep of the police dog unit they'll shut it down.

/I love run-on sentences...
 
2006-10-16 1:17:33 AM  
MutedDNA: munnff muffnnnfnff...

That is a sick picture and I would like to know where you got it so I can put it on my list of webistes never to visit.
 
2006-10-16 1:18:49 AM  
I've always felt the law that killing a police dog is the same as killing an officer is complete crap. Don't misunderstand me, it should of course be a felony, a very serious matter, etc... But elevating it to the equivalent of killing an officer is ridiculous.

Killing an officer is treated as more serious than any other normal murder, so you're making the statement that the police dogs life is worth more than a human life. That just rubs me the wrong way.
 
2006-10-16 1:20:18 AM  
That is a sick picture and I would like to know where you got it so I can put it on my list of webistes never to visit.

Wikipedia
 
2006-10-16 1:20:53 AM  
WayToBlue: You'd be surprised, a lot of places will put such a value on the dogs life that K9 units will have to break persuit because should they get in an accident, the dog could be hurt.
 
2006-10-16 1:21:24 AM  
we_hates

Look at the image source, it's from Wikipedia

NSFW
 
2006-10-16 1:21:32 AM  
gahdamnit. pursuit.

//its late
 
2006-10-16 1:22:24 AM  
Can't say I'm surprised this is happening in England. Happy that it's not in the U.S.

I'm looking forward to the day when we end this "let's be nice to everyone." b.s. and not worry about injuring the criminals who seek to injur or kill other people.

I'm also looking forward to the day at work when I can call all the stupid people who call "stupid", "Idiot" and "retard"
 
2006-10-16 1:23:03 AM  
My loathing of canines limits my ability to make an intelligent substantive contribution to this thread.

Eh, it's Fark: shoot the dogs first.
 
2006-10-16 1:24:28 AM  
This idea is nutty. They want to use a single predictable attack, instead of the multitude of feints, dodges, holds, trips, and bites dogs can use now. I wonder if Sgt Crowe even believes what he says. Perhaps they should stop using dogs altogether instead of abusing them like this.
 
2006-10-16 1:26:04 AM  
That is a sick Totally SICK picture and I would like to know where you got it so I can put it on my list of websites never to visit to fap to.

/Fixed.
 
2006-10-16 1:27:25 AM  
Could no longer read the article after this point:

to tackle unco-operative offenders. . .

UNCOOPERATIVE!

/done being a grammar nazi
//first time i have used the slashies
///makes me feel like a better person
 
2006-10-16 1:28:22 AM  
"putting the rights and safety of criminals suspects before cutting crime and protecting the public." There, fixed that for them.

I have no problem with the police sicking a dog on someone as long as the standard for doing so is the same as the standard for shooting them.
 
2006-10-16 1:29:34 AM  
Justice by UFIA: UNCOOPERATIVE!

It was probably written for another medium where the hyphen indicated a line break and taken directly from that medium character for character. Or maybe it was justa mis-take.
 
2006-10-16 1:30:31 AM  
[image from igadi.org too old to be available]
 
2006-10-16 1:31:44 AM  
The dog's teeth can be safely removed, or filed down to next to nothing. Of course, the damage a dog does to a suspect can also be through pressure. The severing of one tendon on each side of the jaw should lessen the strength enough to prevent broken arms.

The dogs can be fed through medi-poort tubes installed in their midsection or esophagus. All of this is really quite simple procedure; veterinarians for the wealthy have for years been using these methods to add "aggressive episode insurance" (called animal AEI) to otherwise dangerous animals kept as eccentric pets. Of course, these are off the book operations, but even the most moderate of veterinarians will perform them, because they are safe (if done properly).


The cost of the procedures to existing police animals would be far less than your average lawsuit. Of course, they're "inhumane" (mostly because of the botched procedure's results), so illegal in the US. Just another example of political correctness costing us another easy solution.
 
2006-10-16 1:32:04 AM  
That is simply absurd.

In Ireland when the Guards tell you you are under arrest you generally go with them, after all they are just doing their job it is nothing personal. But every now and again someone - usually pissed- decides not to go without a fight. The Guards have no problem with that, but then again the would have no problem having the dog bite you either.


Wales is a very strange place.

 
2006-10-16 1:33:29 AM  
raoul.duke Screw that, I want that "protect and serve" puppy with razor sharp teeth and a jaw that could crush a skull. If you're running from the cops and they tell you to stop, you deal with the consequences. 'nuff said.
 
2006-10-16 1:37:58 AM  
WayToBlue: I've always felt the law that killing a police dog is the same as killing an officer is complete crap. Don't misunderstand me, it should of course be a felony, a very serious matter, etc... But elevating it to the equivalent of killing an officer is ridiculous.

Killing an officer is treated as more serious than any other normal murder, so you're making the statement that the police dogs life is worth more than a human life. That just rubs me the wrong way.



I've always felt the same about killing a police officer. by elevating that murder above murdering a civilian you reinforce the idea of police as a ruling class rather than a servant of the people
 
2006-10-16 1:45:01 AM  
Lehk I never really thought about that. Although I can see both sides of the issue, I'm now torn on that subject I guess.

On one side: respect for those who we deem "protectors" and giving them a higher status since they put their lives on the line.

Other side: They're not better than the people they serve.

What bugs me is when a police officer is off-duty and they get shot/killed/attacked, they still claim it as "attacking an officer", whaaaa?
 
2006-10-16 1:48:19 AM  
Okay, these guys are going to get injured most likely if they try to avoid being arrested anyways (which is what they are doing). These dogs are often used to SAVE the criminals life, most these dogs are trained to attack areas that would usually make a suspect drop their weapon.

Great Janitor, I am glad it isn't in the US too, but if there are changes like this chances are you would see them happen through the LAPD first then spread in a ripple effect to the rest of the country. LAPD has gotten tons of shiat for the dumbest things, even the maglights (they claimed they were used way too much for a weapon, no shiat, it was a less then lethal option for life threatening situations, there was a reason cops usually hold those lights at that angle, dur). So now they want LAPD officers to use small plastic flashlights that instead of serving a duel purpose now just serve one, in effect putting the officers, and the suspects, life in danger. Being too PC can do more damage then good, and people like to forget that.
 
2006-10-16 1:52:44 AM  
Dinjiin: These dogs can easily tear the flesh off on your arm or leg, leaving you with permanent scars or nerve damage. That is farking excessive in my book.

Good point... shoot them instead.
 
2006-10-16 1:53:40 AM  
Chief: A couple thoughts on that. First off-duty officers are still expected to protect people and carry out their duty if they happen to come across a law-enforcement situation. Second: criminals will target cops deliberately, for vengence or intimidation or just because they are violent. That is why attacking cops is considered more serious even when the cop is off-duty.
 
2006-10-16 1:54:18 AM  
I just love the would be thugs with their sadistic little fantasies that come a posting when the topic is something like this.

I'm a police officer who works with a K9 and I'm getting a real kick out of some of your replies. You people are exactly the time that we try not to hire as officers and the type that we'd never allow to work with animals.
 
2006-10-16 1:58:16 AM  
raoul.duke I don't get why people would do that to a dog. Honestly if you don't want a dangerous dog then don't buy one or train them.

I wouldn't want that shiat to be happening to me if I were in its position, would you?
 
2006-10-16 2:14:17 AM  
Have the metal bar across the front of the muzzle trigger a built-in taser.

Arf. Arf. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzt!

/get him in the neck, it's fun to watch 'em twitch
 
2006-10-16 2:20:51 AM  
Wolf_Blitzer
So what you're saying is, that police dogs should be trained to attempt to be kicked by a fleeing suspect.

Oh yeah, as opposed to unmuzzled, where a dog is completely safe in that line of work. Goodness knows an adult human being doesn't stand a chance in a fight against a farking dog. Riiight.

That's why I dislike the whole idea of pursuit dogs...I'm hardly a "PETA" type, but in any case, you're abusing the animals' inherent trust in you by putting them in deliberately dangerous situations that they needn't be in. Animals can't actually consent to this, they don't really understand the concept of mortal danger as we do, they just do what their leader wants. If police pursuit dogs are somehow OK because they do it willingly, then dog fighting must be OK too, because the dogs also do that willingly. Dogs will do almost inconceivable things to please their masters. We ought to exhibit more responsibility and respect the level of trust placed in us.
 
2006-10-16 2:56:22 AM  
So I've read through all this and haven't seen any comments yet that detail how police dogs in the US are supposed to be highly trained in disabling a fleeing suspect without actually breaking skin or causing much permanent damage.

Maybe I put too much faith in peoples understanding of K-9 units.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog

Give that a look-see. New Jersey, yeah, that's where I'm from. God loves NJ.

/ Owner of a Czech/German & full German Shepherds.
// All well trained.
/// And always release when told.
 
2006-10-16 2:57:55 AM  
markfarker-You people are exactly the time that we try not to hire as officers and the type that we'd never allow to work with animals.
But now, being so desperate for warm bodies- er, officers, that most departments will take just about anyone who'll sign up. Dallas had a program like a number of cities do- one tour of military duty and they'll waive the degree requirement. 'Cause we all know that everyone who's gone through the military is qualified, right?

Oh, and I truly enjoyed the 'You people' comment.

LA's finest, in post-sensitivity training mode.

 
2006-10-16 3:29:36 AM  
These dogs are trained to grab and hold, basically like a game of fetch. It's when you start wiggling around that you get hurt.

Honestly, if you're stupid enough to ignore the handler when he says he's going to release the dog on you, it's your own damn fault. But if you're gonna do it, at least be smart and give up after the dog has you. The dog always wins anyway, and it'll save you a lot of trouble.
 
2006-10-16 3:40:14 AM  
I totally agree with this article, police dogs have no business being trained to bite anyone. They do not have the judgement a human does, they are too easy to whip into an uncontrollable frenzy, and there are too many cases where a dog will go after an innocent bystander instead of the intended target. Besides, I am highly amused by the idea of a flying-head-butting dog.


One-eyed Police dog bites cop's partner


Dog bites woman bystander


Central site with lots of cases of police dog problems and other abuses.
 
B A
2006-10-16 3:56:03 AM  
Using a muzzled dog is like carrying an empty pistol - USELESS. As for the possibility of a permanently crippling injury caused by the police dog - TOUGH shiat! You souldn't have done the crime, you shouldn't have run from the officer, & when the dog was released you shouldn't have continued to run - if you stop and stand still he won't tear your ass up. And before you bleeding heart idiots start in about "have you seen what a dog does to flesh?" YES I have, I spent 20 years on ambulances & several years in ER - I've seen it, I don't like it but, again, TOUGH shiat, don't do the crime and you won't be in the situation. BTW break into my house you won't worry about the dog 'cause I'll shoot your ass dead & it'll be a moot point.
 
2006-10-16 5:08:07 AM  
North wales is a strange place.
the police there, are known as the 'traffic Taliban', because the head of North wales police, Richard Brunstrom, has dedicated much of his departments resources towards catching those evil b*stards - people who drive at 33 mph in a 30 mph limit.

this story will just reinforce the extreme distaste that ordinary people feel towards Brunstrom.
My view....fleeing criminals should be warned that a dog will be set loose....after that all bets (and claims for compensation) are off
 
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