Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)   Conservative blogger offers a much better defense of Clinton's record on terrorism than Clinton himself   (captainsquartersblog.com) divider line
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

1434 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Sep 2006 at 8:19 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



51 Comments     (+0 »)


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2006-09-25 5:02:41 PM  
Well, the blogger is Libertarian as opposed to Republican, so some people might be confused by the correct use of the word "Conservative", since it's more often used incorrectly these days.
 
2006-09-25 5:12:01 PM  
The Fark neocons don't even need to stop by this thread. The poster Brooklyn in the blog's comments covered all the talking points already.

And the poster that posted this:

That Disney-ABC 9-11 docu-drama was nothing more, nothing less than the 9-11 report represented by actors instead of a dry reading of the report.

Needs to get his head checked, or at least pass over what he was smoking when he wrote that.
 
2006-09-25 5:35:17 PM  
They say a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who's been arrested. A libertarian is a guy who's been hit in the head with a ball peen hammer.
 
2006-09-25 5:53:34 PM  
Sorry but this is still horse pucky in my opinion. He is not giving a better defense of Clinton's record then Clinton hinself, not by a long shot.

He is glossing over, as all conservatives seem to, the complete and utter inaction of the Bush Administration during the 8 month lead up to 9/11. While the blogger attempts to state that there was equal incompetence in both administrations, I still find doing absolutely nothing at all, even ignoring repeated requests for meetings and action from Richard Clark the "Terrorism Czar", to be evidence of how much more significantly the Clinton Administration viewed the threat.

It's nice that someone is finally saying enough is enough, and we are all making the situation worse, and our country weaker through our polarized partisan hatred of one another's views. But doing it by showing that Clinton acted pretty much within the limits of the political environment of the time, and saying that is equal to Bush's complete and absolute inaction is absurd.

This even after Clinton specifically warned Bush in his departure briefing that Bin Laden would be (or at least should be) Bush's number one concern going into his administration. This after Richard Clark was repeatedly ignored in the months preceding 9/11. This after Cheney was put in charge of the Administration's Anti-Terrorism task force... and never bothered to call a meeting.

Conservatives can and will keep trying to state otherwise, but from the outset all the way to today, the Bush Administration's inactions and policies, have far outweighed anything you could ever dream of pinning on Clinton.

Bush led us into the utter foreign policy failure of abandoning Afghanistan before stabalizing it and routing out the Taliban and Bin Laden, and then turning the foreign goodwill toward the US that had followed 9/11 and even supported the invasion of Afghanistan into near universal hatred as we attacked Iraq. The damage that Bush has done to the image of the United States will be a stain on our country for decades.

The majority of the world now views us as the most dangerous country in the world. Not because of our military might, but because our foreign policies are destabalizing the world and breeding the next generation of hardened extremists most likely to fuel the Islamic terrorist movement. Do we intend to attack dozens of countries to root out these extremists??? Because we are inspiring hatred in country after country around the world.

The Bush doctrine is not merely a massive failure, as essentially stated in the most recent consensus view of all 16 intelligence agencies, but is a major danger to the future of our country. We really need to step back, and completely reassess US foreign policies the world over, and re-establish our image of being the leaders in world democracy not thru lip-service and weaponry, but thru genuine democratic action.

Viewing the state of our own democracy, we need to start with ourselves.
 
2006-09-25 5:56:40 PM  
Perhaps we missed this paragraph:

Clinton added to the list, of course. He failed to follow up on the Iraqi ties to the first World Trade Center bombing. He did little after the Khobar Towers attack. The twin bombings of the African embassies, an early hallmark of al-Qaeda's coordination of attacks, resulted in a missile attack on a training camp that barely missed Osama bin Laden. Given intel that a Sudanese aspirin factory had produced chemical weapons, later found questionable, Clinton attacked it with missiles to neutralize the threat. He failed to respond to the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole...
 
2006-09-25 6:09:36 PM  
Nice, I like how that was worded to make it look as if Clinton had himself said those things... which he did not. These are accusations sent towards him from conservatives, not admissions of failure from Clinton. But when written as "Clinton added to the list, of course." it almost sounds like he said it and gives it more weight than the hyperbole it really is.

Nothing, nothing at all that Clinton did or did not do can in any way compare the actions of the Bush administration and the steep decline of our status and respect the world over since Bush came to power.
 
2006-09-25 6:15:28 PM  
phreakinowski: He is glossing over, as all conservatives seem to, the complete and utter inaction of the Bush Administration during the 8 month lead up to 9/11.

8 months is quite a bit less time than 8 years that Clinton had. It gets glossed over because no administration is effective for the first few months of their presidency. It also gets glossed over because it is a significantly less amount of time than anyone before him had.

It should have been enough time to get things done, but it's incredibly doubtful that it Bush could have done anything at all to stop what happened on 9/11.

Bush led us into the utter foreign policy failure of abandoning Afghanistan before stabalizing it and routing out the Taliban and Bin Laden, and then turning the foreign goodwill toward the US that had followed 9/11 and even supported the invasion of Afghanistan into near universal hatred as we attacked Iraq.

Agreed.

The damage that Bush has done to the image of the United States will be a stain on our country for decades.

I'm less concerned at how the rest of the world views us than I am at getting the job done. Right now, we have neither.

as essentially stated in the most recent consensus view of all 16 intelligence agencies

I think I'll reserve judgement until the entire report is declassified. When a very tiny portion of a TS report is leaked with no context, I'm just a bit suspect of the motives. Especially when it's such a one-sided political hot-potato.

We really need to step back, and completely reassess US foreign policies the world over, and re-establish our image of being the leaders in world democracy not thru lip-service and weaponry, but thru genuine democratic action.

Agreed. As long as it's understood that the use of force is a viable option if diplomacy fails or the threat is imminent.
 
2006-09-25 6:44:51 PM  
Scooby's'pawn: 8 months is quite a bit less time than 8 years that Clinton had. It gets glossed over because no administration is effective for the first few months of their presidency. It also gets glossed over because it is a significantly less amount of time than anyone before him had.

That's very reasonable and well-thought out. Obviously you're just not going to work out here. Have your desk cleaned out by the end of the day.
 
2006-09-25 7:59:02 PM  
ViceCapades: "They say a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is a conservative who's been arrested. A libertarian is a guy who's been hit in the head with a ball peen hammer."


.... and smokes pot.
 
2006-09-25 8:33:52 PM  
Interesting article. Good read.

None of the Ex-presidents are without failure.
 
2006-09-25 8:41:42 PM  
The Cole Bombing happened in Oct 2000.

The election happened in Nov 2000.

Bush takes office Jan 2001

Does anyone think the terror threat was reset to zero when Bush took office?

No.

How long between 9/11 and the bombing of Afganistan?
 
2006-09-25 8:48:38 PM  
Ironically, the man who WANTED to retaliate for the USS Cole was the President who didn't get certification by the CIA that it was Bin Laden, while the man who REFUSED to deal with USS Cole was the President who was told the finaly conclusion of the CIA investigation that it was Bin Laden.

Why? When the CIA finally gave the recommended that the US strike Bin Laden, when Richard Clarke gave them forewarning of Bin Laden's priority status? Why would Bush drop the ball?

Answer: According to the testimony of Sec. of State Condoleeza Rice before the 9/11 commission:
I do not believe to this day that it would have been a good thing to respond to the Cole, given the kinds of options that we were going to have. ... We really thought that the Cole incident was passed, that you didn't want to respond tit-for-tat. ...


Clinton != Bush

don't farking tell me any more goddamn excuses.
 
2006-09-25 9:04:33 PM  
wow the Weeners on taht page sums up why americans will never be together again(barring another 9-11 type event):

In general, I agree, but let's remember that virtually everything that President Bush had to do in getting his administration up to speed was significantly impeded by Al Gore's extraordinary attempt to sieze the election. We'll never know exactly how this impacted and delayed or deferred the Bush administration's pursuit of terror, but we do know several useful things: Trying to live up to his promise to reach across the aisle most likely ensured that President Bush kept the same law enforcement minded policies in place until 9-11, and democrats did all they could to obstruct the Bush agenda in any and every way possible. It's highly unlikely that even if President bush wanted to put the country on a war footing on his first day in office he would have had much success.

Posted by: Mike at September 22, 2006 10:34 PM


always pointing a finger means you will never be prepared for whats next like the blogger said if you are stilll talking aboot teh past you arent focused on the present/future....

but we have a new cliche "but but but gore"
 
2006-09-25 9:13:44 PM  
Scooby's'pawn

8 months is quite a bit less time than 8 years that Clinton had. It gets glossed over because no administration is effective for the first few months of their presidency. It also gets glossed over because it is a significantly less amount of time than anyone before him had.


The first WTC bombing occurred Feb 26, 1993, which is 5 weeks after Clinton took office.

It should have been enough time to get things done, but it's incredibly doubtful that it Bush could have done anything at all to stop what happened on 9/11.

We will never know if Bush could have stopped it because he made no attempt to do anything.

In spite of a briefing from Sandy Burger that said OBL and AQ were a major problem.

In spite of a Clinton Administration completed plan to retaliate for the Cole, which the Bush Administration did not act on.

In spite of warnings that an attack involving airplanes could be carried out soon.

Bush did nothing. Clinton at least tried.
 
2006-09-25 9:14:13 PM  
8 months is quite a bit less time than 8 years that Clinton had.

Actually this is a false formulation.

Clinton had eight years to recognize and come to grips with terrorism.

The Republicans had eight years and eight months to come to grips with terrorism.
 
2006-09-25 9:17:27 PM  
mathmatix

No one is ever going to take you seriously if you mention Weeners in your post.

/That's right, I said Weeners
 
2006-09-25 9:21:30 PM  
99% of the people arguing over this have not read the 9/11 commission report, read Richard Clarke's book or even seen the full video of Clinton's interview on Fox.
 
2006-09-25 9:23:16 PM  
Scooby's'pawn:
8 months is quite a bit less time than 8 years that Clinton had. It gets glossed over because no administration is effective for the first few months of their presidency. It also gets glossed over because it is a significantly less amount of time than anyone before him had.

It should have been enough time to get things done, but it's incredibly doubtful that it Bush could have done anything at all to stop what happened on 9/11.


That's crap again and you know it. This isn't about Bush "doing" 8 years of stuff vs 8 months. This is about the fact Bush had the same 8 years of information that told Clinton AQ was a threat, and he did not treat it as a threat - the world of information is not wiped when you become President. He should have known what a threat AQ was and treated it accordingly, even if it was too early in his administration for him to actually do anything to mess with 9/11. This is about the fundamental unseriousness of the Bush Admin and terrorism
 
2006-09-25 9:30:30 PM  
99% of the people arguing over this have not...

read the 9/11 commission report... nope

read Richard Clarke's book... check

or even seen the full video of Clinton's interview on Fox... check

What does 2 out of 3 get me?

/wants the large plush looney toons character
//or a goldfish
 
2006-09-25 9:35:51 PM  
If counterterrorism was a top priority for the Justice Department prior to 9/11, why did Ashcroft ignore the FBI's specific request in August 2001 for additional counterterrorism resources?
 
2006-09-25 9:44:08 PM  
Has anyone said "silver platter" yet? I love slapping people around when they repeat that stupid hannityism.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2006-09-25 9:47:16 PM  
If counterterrorism was a top priority for the Justice Department prior to 9/11, why did Ashcroft ignore the FBI's specific request in August 2001 for additional counterterrorism resources?

Because Ashcroft is a clueless imbecile. He was such a fark-up as a one-term senator that Missourians replaced him with the then-late Mel Carnahan.
 
2006-09-25 9:55:51 PM  
Bush Administration's First Memo on al-Qaeda Declassified

If you're wondering why Richard Clarke was so pissed at Bush...
 
2006-09-25 10:12:39 PM  
This thread is such a great example of today's Democratic Party.

Republican: "Clinton wasn't the only failure on terrorism. Reagan, Carter, the first Bush... no one was taking terrorism seriously enough!"

Democrat: "LIAR!!!"

Republican: "And, you know, we should probably start addressing our border security...."

Democrat: "RACIST!!!"

Republican: "...ummm.... so that Arab terrorists don't start blowing up our schools...."

Democrat: "FEAR MONGERING ISLAMAPHOBE!!! RETHUGLICAN! OIL! CHENEY!!! ROVE!!! CHRISTIANS! AAAAAH!"

Keep it up guys. You'll win back the House fer sure.

/who needs Diebold?
 
2006-09-25 10:16:10 PM  
Dan, your first line is wrong and the tone goes downhill from there.
 
2006-09-25 10:18:21 PM  
This summed it up for me.

The time has come -- it has long since come -- for that history to become just that: history. None of us can pretend that Bill Clinton could ever have declared war on al-Qaeda in the manner Bush did without having a 9/11-type event as a catalyst. Not only would the Left have screamed much as they do now, albeit without the Hugo Chavez-type conspiratorial thinking, Republicans would have never given Clinton the kind of support needed to send American troops into Afghanistan. The political climate had been thoroughly poisoned by the time of the African bombings and Congress would never have put aside its deathmatch with Clinton to unite in a war effort, especially against a band of terrorists most Americans didn't know existed.
 
2006-09-25 10:28:19 PM  
This is probably because Bill Clinton is too busy getting the good stuff. Priorities, man.
 
2006-09-25 10:39:23 PM  
dan_in_oaklandClinton wasn't the only failure on terrorism. Reagan, Carter, the first Bush...

Lol...who's blaming reagan? who's blaming Bush I?

don't avoid the pink elephant in the room silly. You're just annoyed b/c you can't get anybody to believe that there was a president who dropped the ball on terrorism as badly as Gee Dubya did.

So yes, you're not just a liar. You've got a pretty imagination as well.

*yawn*. another bites the dust.
 
2006-09-25 10:46:31 PM  
dan_in_oakland: his thread is such a great example of today's Democratic Party.


Gee thanks Dan for tell all us dems what we would say. You and TGOT should get together. You could each take turns playing the 'EBIL DEMOCRAT'.
 
2006-09-25 10:48:57 PM  
Nor can we argue that the Bush administration took much action in the preceding months to guard against the threat from AQ, although they gave it about the same level of attention as the Clinton administration did, and mostly with the same players.

Lie
 
2006-09-25 10:59:16 PM  
ericjohnson0
This summed it up for me.
I agree. Lately we have spent too much time worrying about what caused 9/11 and not enough talking about what we can do to stop another one.
 
2006-09-25 11:00:52 PM  
Keith Olbermann weighs in.

Wow.
 
2006-09-25 11:23:40 PM  
Burn98: The first WTC bombing occurred Feb 26, 1993, which is 5 weeks after Clinton took office.

And the marine barracks in Lebanon were bombed in the mid '80s.

That was not done by AQ. Nor was the first WTC bombing. You are confusing perpetrators.

(and, yes, KSM did give about $600 bucks to one of the WTC bombers, but it is doubtful that there was any coordination with OBL at that time.)

Things evolve in time. OBL did not declare war on the US until he was safely in Afghanistan in 1998.
 
2006-09-25 11:27:07 PM  
Jeff from MD


Lol...who's blaming reagan? who's blaming Bush I?


From TFA:

The rise of Islamofascism didn't occur just on Clinton's watch, and his presidency was not the only one that demonstrated weakness and fecklessness to the jihadists. One can (and should) pick out examples from the three preceding administrations. Jimmy Carter undermined the Shah and allowed Ruhollah Khomeini to seize power in Iran, and then did nothing but demonstrate impotency when Khomeini had our embassy in Teheran seized -- allowing the crisis to drag on for 444 days as Khomeini's followers held 51 Americans hostage. Ronald Reagan retreated from Lebanon after a Hezbollah attack killed hundreds of Marines, and then negotiated with them when they took hostages. George Bush kicked Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait but let him off the hook with the road to Baghdad open because he didn't want to alienate the moderate Arab regimes that had given tacit support to the invasion.

Hey, Jeff, you moronic asshole: reading rocks!
 
2006-09-25 11:36:02 PM  
Skleenar
Keith Olbermann weighs in.


Day yam!
 
2006-09-26 12:19:13 AM  
Skleenar

Keith Olbermann weighs in.

Wow.


Olbermann is as much a partisan hack as any of them are. I wanted to vomit when I watched his interview with Clinton. I wouldn't have been surprised to see him get under the table and service Clinton.

He refers to Wallace as, "a monkey posing as a newscaster" which I find really interesting. Wallace was on TV prior to the 9-11 docu-drama saying how he hated that it lied about what the Clinton administration did at the time. He also was telling the truth when he told Clinton that he had confronted a member of the Bush administration over the same issues.

http://patterico.com/2006/09/24/5187/chris-wallace-has-indeed-grilled-bush-off icials-about-failing-to-get-osama-before-911/

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/24/video-clinton-vs-wallace-on-fox-news-sun day/
 
2006-09-26 12:27:37 AM  
FTFA:

"Some CQ commenters want to convince me of Clinton's knavery, as if I needed convincing. I'm not defending Clinton as much as I'm asking for some perspective. Let me ask this: (1) Will further argument about Clinton's track record on terrorism change any minds? (2) Will further argument about Clinton's track record on terrorism make the nation any safer? The answers, in my opinion, are (1) no, and (2) it's putting the nation even more at risk because we're focused on the past rather than the present. If so, then why are we still having this argument five years after 9/11 when it keeps the political environment polarized, it's not changing any minds, and it has nothing to do with the tough questions about how we keep the nation safe now?"

QF-Farking-T
 
2006-09-26 1:12:32 AM  
Olbermann is as much a partisan hack as any of them are.

I can't agree with that statement. It does get subjective when you're arguing about this kind of thing, I'll admit. There are partisans and hacks, some of them on MSNBC, even (I'll give you Rita Cosby and *ucker Carlson, for starters), but Keith is not one of them. Keith is someone I respect.
 
2006-09-26 1:43:23 AM  
Brubold: Olbermann is as much a partisan hack as any of them are

He makes some pretty damn good points that haven't been answered. Bush owes it to America to read both of his recent commentaries and decide how he's going to word his Apology to America, and get it over with.

It's only going to go uphill for Dubya from here on out. He's running out of cards.
 
2006-09-26 8:40:16 AM  
Sarsin

This summed it up for me.
I agree. Lately we have spent too much time worrying about what caused 9/11 and not enough talking about what we can do to stop another one.


Umm... we should learn how to prevent another 9/11, but not look back and see what we could've done to prevent the original?

I'm confused.
 
2006-09-26 9:02:06 AM  
rnld

The Cole Bombing happened in Oct 2000.

The election happened in Nov 2000.

Bush takes office Jan 2001

Does anyone think the terror threat was reset to zero when Bush took office?

Thank you for pointing this out. Less than 90 days after the USS Cole attack President Bush took office and, as is well documented, put terrorism on the back burner in favor of missile defense.

Just to be clear, Al Qeueda's attack on the Cole occured while George Bush was running for president and less than one quarter before he took office. He was warned by the exiting administration that Osama Bin Laden was his primary threat when he took office and again that OBL was planning another attack on US soil. The meeting of "principles" on terrorism did not happen until almost a year after the Cole and not until after 9/11.

Scooby's'pawn
It should have been enough time to get things done, but it's incredibly doubtful that it Bush could have done anything at all to stop what happened on 9/11.

Had the airline industry enacted the security recommendations that hardened doors be installed in the cockpit (as they are today) the 9/11 would probably never have happened as there would have been no access to the flight controls. This was viewed by the airline industry, however, as too expensive.

I can't believe that people are actually claiming that the President can't get anything done in the first year of his term when that has historically been shown to be the "honeymoon" period where he has the most leeway in enacting policy.
 
2006-09-26 9:03:58 AM  
Sarsin

ericjohnson0
This summed it up for me.
I agree. Lately we have spent too much time worrying about what caused 9/11 and not enough talking about what we can do to stop another one.

I guess that old adage about learning from history so as not to repeat it doesn't apply anymore.
 
2006-09-26 9:08:17 AM  
It's about time a Democrat fought back against the Republican Propaganda Noise Machine, good that it was Clinton.

Especially against a grade-A crapweasel like Wallace.
 
2006-09-26 9:23:52 AM  
Said blogger is amalgamating so-called "islamofascism" and Saddam Hussein. Saddam was a secular dictator. Nothing to do with "islamowhatever".
 
2006-09-26 9:30:46 AM  
nictamer: Said blogger is amalgamating so-called "islamofascism" and Saddam Hussein. Saddam was a secular dictator. Nothing to do with "islamowhatever".

Nubian please! Isn't is sufficient that he was brown and lived in a desert country with oil? He even had the mustache. If you start critically looking at how our enemies fit the islamofascist profile you might start thinking that it's just a catchy word that we made up with no basis in reality. The the islamofascists will truly have won.

/sarcasm
//which I really should dispense with since it gets everyone defensive
///but it feels so good first thing in the morning
 
2006-09-26 9:32:25 AM  
then the islamofascists will truly have won.

coffee++;
 
2006-09-26 9:35:43 AM  
Sarsin: Lately we have spent too much time worrying about what caused 9/11 and not enough talking about what we can do to stop another one.

DrJesusPhD Umm... we should learn how to prevent another 9/11, but not look back and see what we could've done to prevent the original?

Of course you are right, Dr Jesus. But realize what is going on here: the Captain of "Captain's Quarters" fame is laying the rhetorical groundwork for ignoring how we got ourselves into the mess that is the Iraq war. "Let's not waste our time arguing over who's fault it is that we are losing Iraq to the insurgents...etc etc etc"

It must be extremely wearying to be a professional appologist.
 
2006-09-26 9:45:29 AM  
But realize what is going on here: the Captain of "Captain's Quarters" fame is laying the rhetorical groundwork for ignoring how we got ourselves into the mess that is the Iraq war.

Very interesting point.
 
2006-09-26 10:04:03 AM  
Bush couldn't get anything done in the first eight months BECAUSE CLINTON WOULDN'T RETURN OALL OF THE "W" KEYS. They were still scrubbing the cum off the walls of the Oval Office for that long.
 
2006-09-26 10:07:57 AM  
ericjohnson0
Lately we have spent too much time worrying about what caused 9/11 and not enough talking about what we can do to stop another one.


You see these as two disparate issues?
 
Displayed 50 of 51 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.