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(The Inquirer)   Why you shouldn't buy DRM-infected music   ( divider line
    More: Scary  
•       •       •

41583 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Sep 2006 at 8:42 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

403 Comments     (+0 »)

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2006-09-21 10:22:11 PM  
elffster: read that Seagate expects to have 2.5 TB drives for pc's by 2009

Eggs, basket

/still cool
2006-09-21 10:22:46 PM  
People buy music?
2006-09-21 10:23:11 PM  
2006-09-21 10:05:34 PM arashinogarou

fark Microsoft and fark MP3s. I bought an iPod Nano because it's small, it's light and it can run Rockbox. iPod, say hello to my little .ogg friends.
gotta agree here. have ipod and looove the rockbox. plays ogg and flac gapless. screw itunes.
2006-09-21 10:23:54 PM  
Chuck D said it best, "You can't stop the rain." There will always be someone who'll wanna control your media and there will always be someone who will be able to beat it and show the rest of us the way. The media companies are just scrambling and trying to get all they can while they can while trying to scare us into giving them more of our money in the process. Fears' a motherfarker.

/owns a Mac
//never had a virus or media issues
///not smug, just smart. ;)
2006-09-21 10:25:12 PM  

uhm, I usually never have trouble and need g-spot, unless something is having a bit of bitrot or is just FUBAR..not often whatsoever...

I said g-spot for folks that might need to use it. My Zoomplayer works fine, thanks for asking...

Matroska playback is a bit wonky, duno if their codec pack is messed up or what, but I just use VLC for .mkv

codec packs are for folks that dont know to install codecs individually....but you knew that too..right?
2006-09-21 10:27:29 PM  
Complaining about DRM is like a fat person blaming sugar. You knew what you were getting if you read the license agreement.

Nobody FORCES you to buy DRM music. You have alternatives, like buying physical CDs.

What do you expect the music companies let you do? Download the music with no restrictions? You'd just give it to your friends.
2006-09-21 10:29:02 PM  
Locoz: You have alternatives, like buying physical CDs root kit embedded pieces of shiat

Fixed it for you
2006-09-21 10:30:43 PM  
Audiograbber. it's free and excellent for ripping cds based on the sound.

Odd, this thread made me go about looking up info on these new formats, and I saw audiograbber is still out there. I remember using that program 8 years ago. Thought it died. Nice to see it is freeware now. I think EAC is supposed to be better (but more complicated) ;)
2006-09-21 10:30:44 PM  
Donutmaker: I do it all on my PC despite the fact that the business is often focused on doing this kind of work on Macs. Why? Because I can take breaks to play games on my PC.

It doesn't get mentioned a lot, but that is not an insignificant thing. If I want to work in Photoshop, Quark, or Word, I can use a PC or a Mac and the difference is negligible. When it comes to games, good luck finding Mac supported games. They are few and far between.
2006-09-21 10:32:36 PM  
Media Monkey

Best thing for all your audio needs
2006-09-21 10:33:08 PM  
Stompn_Tom, I believe only Sony-BMG tried root kits. We know how that turned out.

If there are any left you know several state attourney generals would like to know about it.
2006-09-21 10:34:50 PM  
Bonanza Jellybean: I'm wondering the same thing.

no shiat.

i have NEVER used WMP, never plan to.

winamp for the win.
2006-09-21 10:35:42 PM  
I believe audiograbber saved some music a friend and I made in Memphis, the cd did not want to rip, but AG just laid the smackdown on it and got me a copy of some stuff that existed no where else~

good shiat, maynard!

ps, riaa assholes : the music was music we made ourselves..we dont need you....DIAF
2006-09-21 10:35:42 PM  

You REALLY creeped me out with that image, and I'll tell you why - I am listening to the Jerry Goldsmith soundtrack to Alien right now, and it just reached the really spooky bit.

Odd. Very very odd.

Oh - and MP3s encoded at 256 (and up) are perfectly acceptable. 300 and up for soundtracks/classical.

I have been an audio guy for years and years, worked on a lot of stuff including soundtracks and did a lot of AB tests. The trouble started when too many people heard 96 coded MP3s and thought that's what all of 'em sounded like... yikes!

FLAC is great for achiving and rather clever too, but a little pointless if you have the space to store the CDs as uncompressed WAVs as you need that extra step both ways to do whatever you like with them.

Oh course, the iPod can play .WAV uncompressed so if you *really* wanna hear the whole thing... you know what to do. With 80 GB ipods out you can fit... oh, around 117 albums at uncompressed CD resolution.

People who complain about the lossy sound of high bitrate MP3s are also likely the kind of people who think they can hear the difference between different brands of oxygen free cables...
2006-09-21 10:36:23 PM  
ejtttje: I don't get it... the rootkits in question didn't have any effect whatsoever on Macs.

Incorrect. Some of those CDs had the Mac equivalent of the rootkit, they installed kernel extensions to do the same things, just like the Windows one installed device drivers.

The only difference was you had to install it by hand, by running their media player and entering the admin password.
2006-09-21 10:37:24 PM  
Solty Dog The days before mp3? You mean back when we made mixtapes for our friends, or, more to the point, copied albums onto tapes so we could listen to them in the car without worrying about the CD getting stolen? When we could play our CDs on any CD player anywhere? When we could keep our records for 30 years and still expect them to work?

'Cause that's what this is about. This is about your right to transfer your music from your computer onto your mp3 player or second computer or computer at work. And back onto your main computer when you replace or reformat it. And to back up your music in case that reformat happens unexpectedly.

Not greed: the ability to listen to music you own wherever you want to, and to keep your music through upgrades and reformats. You can argue all you want that copying music for someone else ought to be illegal. But DRM is about keeping you from copying music you own for your own use, and doing it in ways that invade your privacy, and that's quite clearly NOT a good thing.
2006-09-21 10:37:46 PM  
Unfortunately I do purchase a lot of music. No real way around that for me, I just love going to the store and picking up some new sounds.

The solution I have is to not put any new CDs into my computers. I listen to
2006-09-21 10:37:51 PM  

I can't it atm. Let me give you an example - I like Led Belly and Slim Dusty.

Have you got Lights On The Hill?
2006-09-21 10:38:29 PM  
I remember buying CDs and records, and when they got scratch, stollen, or warped we bought a new copy. No one said a thing. It was understood. But the vibe has changed. Napster, and the nature of bits has caused us all to be vigilanty vicitims, and now it's an offense that we can't have exactly what we want. I too haven't bought a CD in years. And I used to buy the 24 ct ones too. Would pay double the price to get high-end Japanese pressings, original master tape transfers, etc. Had the big fat high-end audio system with glowing tubes and DACs and modeling clay inside the CD turntable and tip toes and lead shot in the audio stands and all. Ditched it for space when our two daughters were babies, but I know I'll be buying again when the time comes to get back to the quality music experience. We've lost the fidelity of sound for the convenience. Decade after decade the recorded music experience gets worse and worse. Grab a 128 bit MP3 off of Lamewire and burn it onto a CD, then walk into your local high-end shop and have a listen. Your ears will bleed. But we (meaning all of us, including me!) still suffer with bright, crunchy upper registers, boomy, blurry lower registers, and flat, anti-dynamic midranges for the convenience of saving a buck and a few minutes. At least the music now is crud, so I know I'm not missing too much. (There, I feel much better).
2006-09-21 10:39:00 PM  
mistergecko: What happened to buying the cd and ripping it? Do these devices not even play unprotected content or something?

If I had to buy music that would be the way. Find the CD on ebay for about $5 and then rip it to flac. Put CD in firesafe
2006-09-21 10:39:47 PM  
I exploded my html code.

Pandora. Listen to what you like!

When on the computers, I use that. Otherwise I listen to my (very quickly growing) collection of CDs on non-DRMable audio devices.
2006-09-21 10:40:04 PM  
EightDeerOcelotClaw: Because Apple is just as much in love with DRM as Microsoft?

Just a guess.

Not quite. They give instructions for breaking it, you can transfer between computers and have more than 1 computer.
2006-09-21 10:40:23 PM  
Fark it, use winamp. i have been using it simce winamp 2.1, and i love it. many useful features, and if you go pro, you can rip and burn too! lots of user created skins and stuff, too, very nice. give it a shot! dont know their position on all this crap, though.
2006-09-21 10:40:39 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Just in case this wasn't posted enough already.
2006-09-21 10:41:34 PM  
HumbleGod: In theory, yes, but FLAC files are HUUUUGE. Far from practical.

Isn't it like 15mb for 3 minutes of lossless audio? Thats not bad, especially with 320gb hard drivers being $80 nowadays.
2006-09-21 10:43:31 PM  

/who may I ask?
//either way, if you have a HD crash, you can always just rip again if need be
2006-09-21 10:45:14 PM  
mrluxuryyacht: At least the music now is crud, so I know I'm not missing too much.

/me gets off mrluxuryyacht's lawn

But seriously, if I could afford a CD for every computer and audio player I use, maybe I wouldn't be as bothered by DRM. And don't think this isn't the direction things are going in, as far as the "content providers" are concerned. With OSes on damn near everything these days, that's pretty much what you're required to do.

Am I willing to sacrifice a little quality for the chance to play a CD on my computers, in my car, on my stereos, and on my portable media player? Sure, why not?
2006-09-21 10:45:31 PM  
howdoibegin: [lots of talking] ....Its the folks who assume that they have no option that prove that the market is far from transparent, and that to me is an example of how markets with so little regulation can, in some circumstances, result in markets that are anything but transparent.

Thank you for hurting my brain for the day, sir. I've been reading that last sentence over and over and I'm still having trouble making it out.

It's probably because my brain's been knocked loose from all the sex and caffeine I've had today. Yeah, that's it.

*curls up in a special place with her FreeRIP'd albums and cheap MP3 CD player and sings to herself*

PS: lemme know if you find a company that's worth throwing money at to manage my music collection. Cookie points for it using a program that takes up little processing on my CPU.
2006-09-21 10:45:36 PM  
Don't buy music online.
2006-09-21 10:47:21 PM  
Can't believe this hasn't shown up yet- I buy all my music from Russia thanks to AllOfMp3. Per kilobyte pricing that gets you an entire album for (at most) $3, no DRM, and they take Paypal and a few other payment systems.

It may be illegal for them to sell to you, but it isn't illegal for you to buy from them.
2006-09-21 10:49:19 PM  
Isn't it like 15mb for 3 minutes of lossless audio? Thats not bad, especially with 320gb hard drivers being $80 nowadays.

It's around half the size of the uncompressed file (part of the trick with FLAC is that it does some cool stuff with the nature of the stereo pair, so it tries to "remove" around half the data and... well, it's cool!)

So a normal CD length album in FLAC is around 250-300MB give or take, usually err on the side of more if it's complex music. Still not tiny.
2006-09-21 10:50:32 PM  
I use lots of mp3. I'd probably use only OGG if my car stereo supported it. I like OGG, even if I think it's a little less treble crisp than mp3.

I brook no farking DRM. I hate new CDs that are broken to make ripping bad; I paid for a farking CD and *I'm* getting ripped! But that's OK - I have plenty of ways of ripping those CDs anyway - and if it's too hard, I'll just get a stolen copy off P2P of the thing I farking paid for. Now that's smart - make the illegal product better than the official one. Durr.

I use FreeBSD and Amarok. Because I'd rather get a little less *ease of use* than get it all up the ass (oh, and Amarok is BETTER than iTunes and everything else). DRM = slavery. Sounds stupid now, but in 200 years that will be an uncontroversial statement.

/ are you ready for my sucky sucky!
/ are you ready for the master's hand!
/ are you ready to bite me!
// electric 6
2006-09-21 10:51:05 PM  
Troggie42: Fark it, use winamp. i have been using it simce winamp 2.1, and i love it. many useful features, and if you go pro, you can rip and burn too! lots of user created skins and stuff, too, very nice. give it a shot! dont know their position on all this crap, though.

I dunno, winamp just rubbed my the wrong way for some reason. It just always seemed like a bunch of useless crap. Now musikCube is a nice little player. My complete library, support for all worthwile formats, dynamic playlists, net radio, devices all from a ~8mb (the peak of its usage, usually around 4mb) program running in my tray. Sure, it doesn't support skins or visualizations (yet) but I'm using it to listen to music not watch the pretty colors.
2006-09-21 10:51:15 PM  
Uncle Karl

>> I think you do not know what a root kit is. You would not have to ok it to run. It would be designed to exploit some flaw, let say in some service, maybe apache or something.

A rootkit is just a set of tools that you install on a system to help exploit it. It doesn't need an auto-install feature to be considered a rootkit. Installing it first requires gaining root access to the system, in this case via CD. On windows, it's as easy as creating an autorun.inf file. With OS X (or any unix-like OS for that matter) an executable will not run unless you explicitly tell it to. And it will not run as root unless you explicitly give it root privileges. The exploits you speak of involve tricking an application which is already running as root into executing your code. To prevent this, Mac OS runs very few services as root. This makes it damn near impossible to exploit. (Only a total retard would run Apache as root, BTW.)

So in order to exploit Mac OS using a CD-ROM, you would have to first find a service which is running as root AND automatically accesses the CDROM. (I believe that leaves you with the device driver.) You would then have to find an exploit for said service, and trick that service into installing your rootkit. So um... good luck with that. :)

I'm not saying that it's impossible to exploit a Mac, but it does would require a sophisticated attack with significant interaction on the part of the exploiter. And a CD just isn't going to cut it.

>> Trust me, this has been done to macs, just not in the wild.

Uh, no. It hasn't. Every couple of years some idiot claims to have written a "Mac virus", and every time I look into it, it turns out to be complete and total bullsh*t. The most recent one was the Mac "mp3 virus" which was developed as a proof of concept by a software company who was trying to peddle (you guessed it) an antivirus program for Mac. The developers failed miserably, eventually ending up with a piece of malware which wouldn't work unless the user explicitly authorized it to run AND typed the password.

2006-09-21 10:52:41 PM  

PrinciPAL is the guy who ran your high school...princiPLE is a basic rule or generalization

// principal is also that amount of your debt that never seems // to go away
2006-09-21 10:52:57 PM  
abyschan: PS: lemme know if you find a company that's worth throwing money at to manage my music collection. Cookie points for it using a program that takes up little processing on my CPU.

If it's good enough to keep track of a jukebox company's audio, it should do yours. (faster than anything else too)
2006-09-21 10:56:50 PM  
I don't think I've EVER had to deal with music DRM. Ever. And the fact is that at least until they get rid of CDs and go to some kind of DVD audio format (for real this time), I never WILL have to. Nothing installs on even my Windows machine without me knowing. Nothing.

I never have and never will buy music from an online store that uses DRM. It's not about principle (though I am against it in principle), it's about practicality. The fact is that DRM would be a pain in the ass even if it were standardized, and since it's not, following all of the different restrictions and allowances for each implementation is completely fakred up.

I use Monkey's Audio and FLAC for offline storage and backups, and convert these masters to m4a format when I want it online for access from my Windows or Linux machines or when I want to put it on my iPod, though I've stopped using Monkey's Audio lately because support for it under Linux is limited to the XMMS player, and I much prefer Amarok. But that's the beauty of lossless compression: I can just convert my Monkey's Audio backups to FLAC or anything else (I wish there was an OGG lossless format) with absolutely no drop in quality.

The "Palladium" or "trusted computing" (which, ironically, means the computer inherently distrusts its user) thing really doesn't bother me because it's only going to be relevant to those who purchase DRM-protected media anyway, which I don't plan on doing anytime soon.

If there ever comes a time when the only way I can get music without DRM is to "steal" it, I will. I can always send the artist the full album price using an anonymous mailing service. I have absolutely No problem with doing this, and anyone who does can eat me.

[image from too old to be available]

We Await Silent Tristero's Empire
2006-09-21 10:59:27 PM  
Gates & Ballmer... front men for the **AA mafia. Y'all should really consider casting off the chains.
2006-09-21 11:05:06 PM  
This too shall pass
2006-09-21 11:06:49 PM  
If you want to support the artist, everyone should just pirate the music they want, then mail the artist a dollar bill and a thank you note to their home address.

You get your songs. Artists keep making money. Music industry keeps getting screwed for being greedy assfarks. Everyone wins.
2006-09-21 11:08:28 PM  

You must use at least 320kbps encoding, if not 512Kbps, otherwise, it sounds like shiat. Files get bigger, but being a former sound engineer, you discover that, yes, you CAN hear the difference on a good set of studio monitors. More data is better and some encoders suck - always use the best you can afford!

And to the person who said that 8 GB wasn't enough to store their collection - too true! I have a 200GB drive dedicated to just 320Kbps MP3s. Only half my collection of CDs...

Terabyte iPod anyone?
2006-09-21 11:08:44 PM  
A great solution to the copyright problem is to treat copyright like US mining law.

Written in the 19th Century, it said that anybody could lay a claim anywhere, but you had to improve that claim every year to a sum of money, or you would lose your claim.

This means that the big libraries of music, text and other media would have to retail market their content *each and every year*, to a certain sum of profit, or they would lose their copyright.

They couldn't continue doing what they do now: hold the copyright, but not market the product, and not let anyone else market the product.

Immediately, most of the music and text through the 1930s would become public domain, because the current copyright holders couldn't make enough profit marketing it to be worth their trouble. But tens of thousands of small businesses *could* and *would* take the risk and market it.

And this goes to the very purpose of copyright: to encourage business and the sale of ideas.
2006-09-21 11:11:40 PM  
mike_the_engineer: 2) Sony was only putting rootkits on CDs for like 2 months. They immediately stopped when it was publicized due to the huge consumer backlash.

Don't be too sure about that. Last winter I bought a tape from Epic(subsidiary of Sony) and it farked with my registry. It was Journey's Greatest Hits of all things; how many copied cassette tapes of that album are out there?

Someone linked and it seems to have some good sample songs. I figure the future of music is to have a website that could download samples and let you buy CDs from the artists. I'm bookmarking it. I liked too.

Also, is the best site for freeware cd rippers, media players, codecs, whatever.
2006-09-21 11:15:06 PM  
bought a CD of Journey even.

/can you even get cassettes anymore?
2006-09-21 11:15:47 PM  

That looks like a drawing from a Magic the Gathering card I used to have eons ago.
2006-09-21 11:16:39 PM  
FLAC through EAC (losless, no re-read needed) files on a network share with clients only having read only access. No mucking about with the source. MP3 duplicate folder created periodically for the ipod's happiness - takes about 2 days for EAC to do the translation. With storage as cheap as it is now, may just send it all back to .WAV for the hell of it...
2006-09-21 11:18:32 PM  
Oh, and if you really want to send a big "F you!" out to the music gestapo, check out The Kleptones. I don't even like mash-ups, and I think 24 Hours was one of the most enjoyable albums to come out this year.

[image from too old to be available]

Technically, the album was illegal to even MAKE. Free society my ass.
2006-09-21 11:22:31 PM  
2006-09-21 11:22:49 PM  
this thread is exploding, and i'm on the outside. I want in on this! Can someone please enlighten me to WTF is going on? I RTFA'd but I'm still in the dark as to what DRM is, where I get this "infected" music from and what all implications the article brings for me and my music, being having a windows os and using media player.
2006-09-21 11:24:08 PM  
DRM just blows any which way you look at it, sooner it's made to go away th ebetter for everyone.
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