Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)   AP reports that Iraq has officially taken command of its military from the U.S., but is sure to point out that all violence in the country did not instantly stop. Because that's what everyone expected, of course   (apnews.myway.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
•       •       •

161 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Sep 2006 at 2:32 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



92 Comments     (+0 »)


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2006-09-07 10:45:21 AM  
On paper, submitter.

Tanks never rolled into Baghdad, either.
 
2006-09-07 10:57:24 AM  
So we can leave, right?
 
2006-09-07 10:57:29 AM  
Gee, everything didn't become perfect forever because somebody said something and signed some papers. Clearly that means that all those traitorous hippies don't know what they're talking about and we should stay there forever.

/not
//that's like saying asprin doesn't work because it takes 20 minutes to fix your headache
 
2006-09-07 11:02:09 AM  
"BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraq formally took over command of its armed forces from the U.S.-led coalition Thursday, a milestone American officials have hailed as crucial to the country's difficult road to independence and eventual withdrawal of foreign troops.

However, Iraq's bloodshed continued in the hours before the handover."



And it will continue until the Iraqi military can find and crush the people who are overwhelmingly targeting Iraqi Civilians.

Insurgents have killed at least 32 people, including 14 in a car bomb attack on a popular Baghdad market, as Iraq prepared to take over operational military command from coalition forces.

A car bomb went off shortly before curfew in the mainly shiite southern neighbourhood of Al-Amin, killing 14 people and wounding 38, including six women, a medic from the capital's Al-Kindi hospital said.

Insurgents, mainly Sunni extremists, often target markets to kill civilians who venture out to buy household goods before the dusk-to-dawn curfew begins.

Earlier in the day, another 18 people were killed in a series of attacks, as the war-torn country's latest round of bloodletting claimed more than 250 lives in five chaotic days.

 
2006-09-07 11:17:59 AM  
"It's the one event that puts the prime minister directly in the operational control of his military forces as his role as the commander in chief," Caldwell said.

Hell yes. Great news.
 
2006-09-07 11:53:03 AM  
BooBoo23,

Hell yes. Great news.

You just lap it up, don't you?
 
2006-09-07 11:53:18 AM  
tgot,

And it will continue until the Iraqi military can find and crush the people who are overwhelmingly targeting Iraqi Civilians.

The problem is that the people who are doing the killing and targeting Iraqi civilians make up a good portion of the military and police forces.

This is a civil war.

Our civil war was fought over economics. It nearly tore our country in two.

The Iraqi civil war is being fought over religion and decades of persecution by an elite ruling class. It's a damn good bet that Iraq will only be able to exist as two separate nations.
 
2006-09-07 12:04:52 PM  
And it will continue until the Iraqi military can find and crush the people who are overwhelmingly targeting Iraqi Civilians.

Which is exactly why people like myself thought it was assinine to invade Iraq in the first place, civil war remains inevitable without a massive influx of US troops and a prolonged US occupation, which isn't going to happen because Dems don't have the balls for it and Dubya won't admit he was wrong. Meanwhile more civilians and US soldiers keep dying.
 
2006-09-07 12:14:08 PM  
NuttierThanEver: "Which is exactly why people like myself thought it was assinine to invade Iraq in the first place,"

Fine. And if you had a time machine, you could go back and change the past, so we never went in, and Saddam "kept the peace" in Iraq.

"civil war remains inevitable without a massive influx of US troops and a prolonged US occupation,"

We were involved in Bosnia, for humanitarian reasons, and to help stop "ethnic cleansing" ... seems like the Sunnis ( the people Saddam favored while he was in power, and they are pissed that they have lost their premire status ) are killing non-sunni iraqi civilians - wholesale. So I've never gotten this huge "we need to leave NOW!" claim from the left, because if we did as Murtha wanted to, when he was first calling for the removal of US troops - I would imagine that it would have gotten much worse.

Having the Iraqis finally take over the military & security is an outstanding thing, and this constant lie about the "US occupation" as being the reason for the bloodshed will be show to be the lie that it is.
 
2006-09-07 12:20:17 PM  
nickyhopkins: You just lap it up, don't you?

In this case, a handing off of power to the Iraqis that will get our guys home sooner is indeed something I will "lap up".
 
2006-09-07 12:21:28 PM  
the_gospel_of_thomas

And it will continue until the Iraqi military can find and crush the people who are overwhelmingly targeting Iraqi Civilians.

Considering that it's largely Shias killing Sunnis, and that the military/police forces are mostly Shia, that's not likely to happen. What's more likely is the sort of ethnic cleansing we saw as the former Yugoslavia fell apart. Whatever, it's going to happen, now. It's mostly a question of how involved you want to be.
 
2006-09-07 12:36:40 PM  
[image from i27.photobucket.com too old to be available]

Like I've been saying for four years: It's like Yugoslavia, but with oil for added chaos.
 
2006-09-07 12:39:08 PM  
Now all we need is a new commander and chief to take over our military.
 
2006-09-07 1:27:56 PM  
Okay bye-bye it's been fun.

See you at the next grotesque waste of time, life, and resources.
 
2006-09-07 1:35:35 PM  
What's submitter's beef? That the AP reported the news?

The handover took place. Violence occurred. Both deserved to be mentioned. No causal links are drawn in the article.
 
2006-09-07 1:46:48 PM  
the_gospel_of_thomas: And if you had a time machine, you could go back and change the past, so we never went in, and Saddam "kept the peace" in Iraq.

The options of "doing nothing," as some conservatives like to put it, and of not attacking Iraq as we did in March 2003 are not mutually exclusive, as was pointed out by many in the lead-up to war. You know this.

People like to phrase it, "Don't you think we're better off without Saddam in power?" In a sense, yes--it's good when a dictator is off the scene. But there are marginally more successful ways to remove a dictator AND provide stability (which was certainly a goal of the US) than the path our government chose. Some of these would have left Saddam Hussein in power for a longer period of time, but that's the tradeoff, and clearly many Iraqis don't think they got a bargain in that deal.

I'm not going to argue over the rationale for war, though. We went in, for better or worse, and things have gone pretty sour since. These are objective statements. They don't cheapen our initial good intentions, but intentions don't count for everything.

It's like running for president. Doing so is considered one of the most noble endeavors an American can aim for, just as the war in Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein was a noble endeavor in principle. But you don't run for president if a) you don't have a good strategy for winning and b) you don't have a good plan for how you'll effectively govern afterwards. It's too expensive (in more ways than financially) to do so without such plans. Noble goals without proper planning and proper intentions mean nothing.
 
2006-09-07 2:36:47 PM  
So when is NFL Iraq gonna kick off?
 
2006-09-07 2:38:09 PM  
[image from i4.tinypic.com too old to be available]

Iraq is fine! Go back to sleep.

/sarcasm
 
2006-09-07 2:39:13 PM  
I don't give a fark if Iraq takes full command of an ice cream truck, just get the soldiers out of there.
 
2006-09-07 2:42:32 PM  
The signing of a symbolic shift of command means nothing when the US still has to hold that military's hand when ever they go out, lest they all desert or are routed by a bunch of rock throwing hoodlums.
 
2006-09-07 2:48:01 PM  
Does this mean they stood up and we can stand down? We have other countries to play musial chairs with.
 
2006-09-07 2:48:01 PM  
AP reports that Iraq has officially taken command of its military from the U.S., but is sure to point out that all violence in the country did not instantly stop. Because that's what everyone expected, of course

Not everyone, just the Bush administration who said we'd be greeted with flowers, and from their speeches we've turned more corners than Tony Stewart at the Daytona 500, and there've been more great days in democracy in the last three years in a country that has never had one, and still doesn't, than in the entire recorded history of the greatest democracy in the world.
 
2006-09-07 2:54:13 PM  
HumbleGod: The handover took place. Violence occurred. Both deserved to be mentioned. No causal links are drawn in the article.

Uh--'scuse me:

"Iraq formally took over command of its armed forces from the U.S.-led coalition Thursday, a milestone American officials have hailed as crucial to the country's difficult road to independence and eventual withdrawal of foreign troops.

However, Iraq's bloodshed continued in the hours before the handover."

No causal links? Pray tell: Whence this "however"? Shouldn't it say "in other news" if there's no link?
 
2006-09-07 2:59:37 PM  
Can we get out now?
">[image from images.google.com too old to be available]
 
2006-09-07 3:01:27 PM  
14. Permanent. U.S. Military. Bases.

/that is all
//evar
 
2006-09-07 3:03:22 PM  
Correct artman. That is what this has been about from the beginning, and it enjoys bipartisan support.
 
2006-09-07 3:04:26 PM  
I'm waiting for the , as mentioned yesterday, breakup of Iraq into three seperate nations. THen watch the Sunni's scream bloody murder as the Shi'ites and Kurds have all the oil while they get a pretty city in a desert.
 
2006-09-07 3:05:51 PM  
Of course no one expected that to happen, but if the AP didn't point that out then the apologists would go waving this story around claiming victory like a 13-year old who found his mom's dildo.
 
2006-09-07 3:06:04 PM  
the_gospel_of_thomas: We were involved in Bosnia, for humanitarian reasons, and to help stop "ethnic cleansing"

Are you suggesting that ethnic cleansing was not going on in Bosnia?
 
2006-09-07 3:14:20 PM  
Mission Chimpccomplished!!!
 
2006-09-07 3:19:54 PM  
This is a civil war.

Stated again.

This is a civil war.

The only resolutions? Honestly? Split the region into 3 areas and either give them to another country or let them be independent. That or put in another dictator. Right now, a lot of Iraqis want that stable presence. They would rather have a strong dictator holding the peace than 'democracy' killing everyone around them.
 
2006-09-07 3:27:26 PM  
I think we should introduce the draft, triple the size of the Army and Marines, and send in about 500,000 more troops.

That's the only way to stop the civil war over there.

You know it.

If you don't support that plan you support defeat in Iraq.

You have Bush to thank for getting us into this situation.

[image from retro.com too old to be available]
 
2006-09-07 3:29:45 PM  
The CraneMeister

"However, Iraq's bloodshed continued in the hours before the handover."

No causal links? Pray tell: Whence this "however"? Shouldn't it say "in other news" if there's no link?


Are you suggesting that the bloodshed caused the Handover?

Or did you miss the word "before" in your quote?
 
2006-09-07 3:30:58 PM  
There are people who still believe we went into Iraq for humanitarian reasons? Wow.
 
2006-09-07 3:36:52 PM  
grytpype-thynne

That's the only way to stop the civil war over there.

You know it.

If you don't support that plan you support defeat in Iraq.


Sending in a half million troops will not stop the civil war. It will just put it on hold.

When we first rolled into Iraq I stated that my worst fear was that our soldiers would get stuck there and become targets. Our march into Iraq looks like an invasion to most people in that part of the world. It only makes sense to fight the "invasion" in anyway possible.

What we need to do is show them it is not an invasion. We can do that by clearly stating our intention to leave and back it up with a schedule.

Toward that end, I think the handover will help (a little).
 
2006-09-07 3:41:25 PM  
artman -
14. Permanent. U.S. Military. Bases.

Gee did you have to spoil the moment
 
2006-09-07 3:41:41 PM  
Burn98 Sending in a half million troops will not stop the civil war. It will just put it on hold.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the last part:

Keep the 500,000 troops there for twenty years, which is how long it will take to set up a functioning national government with a loyal security force that can control the whole country.

Either that, or lose the war.

Men ages 18-40, please check your mailboxes for a notice from the Selective Service.
 
2006-09-07 3:49:46 PM  
(tgot: "We were involved in Bosnia, for humanitarian reasons, and to help stop "ethnic cleansing")

LocalCynic: "Are you suggesting that ethnic cleansing was not going on in Bosnia?"


I'm suggesting that the same people who want us to go INTO Darfour ( and for good reason ) and who were supportive of intervention in Bosnia ( also good reasons ) - yet there is no direct link to violence in Bosnia or Darfour to any risk to the united states ...


now want us to vacate Iraq, and let them take control of thier own destiny, as Lamont says ... when the government has ( up until now ) been unable to provide for thier own internal security.


That strikes me as hypocritical, and Ironic.
 
2006-09-07 3:51:53 PM  
>>>Satyagraha>>>

"Gee did you have to spoil the moment"

Don't blame me. Blame the moron-tard in the White House.
 
2006-09-07 3:53:08 PM  
"I'm waiting for the , as mentioned yesterday, breakup of Iraq into three seperate nations. THen watch the Sunni's scream bloody murder as the Shi'ites and Kurds have all the oil while they get a pretty city in a desert."

Yep, thats my guess as well. It begins as "federated regions" with a central government, then that government collapses, one or two of the regions (north and south) try to get as independent as possible, and we're ready for the civil war to reach a new and bloody level.

The US will be there all along, trying to protect the flow of oil and decide which group to shoot at today. We might even see Iran making a grab for the southern region, but my guess is that they will be satisfied with controlling it through strawmen and alliances with the local leadership.
 
2006-09-07 3:55:30 PM  
Just how much of this army, 3 years later, is up and running?
 
2006-09-07 3:57:50 PM  
the_gospel_of_thomas: when the government has ( up until now ) been unable to provide for thier own internal security.

neither have our forces.
 
2006-09-07 3:58:03 PM  
rnld: Just how much of this army, 3 years later, is up and running?


Well its sortof hard to tell- there are a lot of paper divisions, but if you ask how many are actually effective military units, you get a lot of mumbling...

and BTW, we actually only handed over 1 division, so we haven't really handed control of the army over at all.
 
2006-09-07 4:00:25 PM  
Any bets on how long it's going to take Chris Matthews to pontificate about how this is the wrong move?
 
2006-09-07 4:02:03 PM  
the_gospel_of_thomas: 'm suggesting that the same people who want us to go INTO Darfour ( and for good reason ) and who were supportive of intervention in Bosnia ( also good reasons ) - yet there is no direct link to violence in Bosnia or Darfour to any risk to the united states ...

The same people who want us in Iraq did not want us in Bosnia. They called it "Clinton's war" and said that there was "no exit strategy."

That strikes me as hypocritical, and ironic.
 
2006-09-07 4:04:48 PM  
Really only two solutions to the Iraq crapfest:

1) Split up Iraq into separate soveriegn states and hope that they don't try to go after each other after we leave a la Charlemagne's sons.

2) Drastically increase troop count in Iraq and occupy it for a long time a la Reconstruction after our very own Civil War. Ideological change at the end of a bayonet.

I left out the option "Get out immediately" because a guaranteed clusterfark doesn't count as a "solution" to me.
 
2006-09-07 4:11:00 PM  
(the_gospel_of_thomas: when the government has ( up until now ) been unable to provide for thier own internal security.)

heap "neither have our forces."


So the "solution" is to leave and watch as they are overrun? As hundreds more Iraqi civilians are murdered in the streets?


We need more. They need more. They are slowly adding more. It's not happening fast enough.
 
2006-09-07 4:12:23 PM  
3) Stay in Iraq until the next election to keep the ONLY hope of keeping the GOP in power in the WH.
 
2006-09-07 4:14:40 PM  
the_gospel_of_thomas: So the "solution" is to leave and watch as they are overrun?

it sure as shiat isn't 'stay the course'.

when both sides of the equation are the same (ie; not providing for security), the balancing point you are laying out is null.
 
2006-09-07 4:15:25 PM  
LocalCynic "The same people who want us in Iraq did not want us in Bosnia. They called it "Clinton's war" and said that there was "no exit strategy."

That strikes me as hypocritical, and ironic."


This really does not counter what I said.

It only shows you that you believe that two wrongs make a "right."


If you supported Bosnia in the past - and support humanatarian action in Darfour now ... are you also against keeping our troops in Iraq - now - to help prevent the humantarian crisis that would unfold if we were to leave?

Or do you think that the Iraq civil war will stop?
 
Displayed 50 of 92 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.