Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   T-shirt salesman complains that he's being forbidden to profit from the names of dead soldiers   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
•       •       •

6707 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 05 Sep 2006 at 7:24 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



174 Comments     (+0 »)


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2006-09-05 4:01:33 PM  
"It is the effort to make a profit he opposes, as if trying to make a profit were an un-American activity. Is he saying no anti-war protests should be strengthened by the energy of capitalism? Should Michael Moore have let everyone see Fahrenheit 9/11 for free?

Many anti-war protesters, including Cindy Sheehan, have seen the value of using the names of the fallen to spread their message. But when we are talking about thousands of names, there is no practical way to incorporate those names into anti-war gear unless some money changes hands."

/shoulda used the Sick tag
 
2006-09-05 4:16:46 PM  
I agree with the comments of the next letter - which is that it would be acceptable if the family of the fallen soldier granted permission for the name to be used in such a way.

Using anyone's name for any purpose without their consent, or the consent of the executor of their estate, isn't just shady - it's downright slimy.
 
2006-09-05 4:33:51 PM  
[image from img382.imageshack.us too old to be available]

Unavailable for Comment. (Thank God.)
 
2006-09-05 4:39:49 PM  
Well this guy just got the market too late, Dubya and Halliburton already have cornered this market.
 
2006-09-05 4:41:05 PM  
Selling the names of soldiers is not so bad if the proceeds went in some way to benefit the families those men and women left behind, but if it's strictly for the profit then slimey doesn't come close to describe the outright disrespect this illustrates... the sales person ought to know better. Someone should remind them.

On a second thought... the media blasting the faces teeters on the same edge...
Informing us is one thing... but the sensationalism that politicizes the whole bit pisses me off just as much... Death sells. Almost as good as Jesus and tits.
 
2006-09-05 4:41:31 PM  
And articles like that are why the anti-war crowd will NEVER get anyone to listen to them.
 
2006-09-05 4:46:06 PM  
Seriously, stopped reading right around the same time i noticed it said "Opinion" above the headline. Either way, it's completely pointless.
 
2006-09-05 4:53:34 PM  
Either way, it's completely pointless.

I've never understood how some of the anti-war crowd can justify exploiting dead soldiers by saying Bush did it first so it's ok. The point here is that if you take a stand against exploiting dead solders, you don't turn around and exploite them again to make your point. It's like farking for virginity or jews for Hitler - it just don't make sense.
 
2006-09-05 5:14:28 PM  
Well, of course. Only Halliburton is allowed to profit from dead soldiers.
 
2006-09-05 6:56:06 PM  
Lorelle: and they do. Oh, how they do.
 
2006-09-05 7:25:24 PM  
Lorelle: Well, of course. Only Halliburton is allowed to profit from dead soldiers.

Waitaminit: I thought Halliburton lost all its Pentagon contracts and is now profiting from the black folks in New Orleans that Bush doesn't care about.

Just trying to keep things in order so I know who to hate.
 
2006-09-05 7:27:59 PM  
Dead soldiers are only beer to me...and I have a son who is a Marine.
 
2006-09-05 7:29:43 PM  
Reminds me of the Barbara Streisand video with all the footage of soldiers in Iraq. Erm, Babs, I get your point. I probably even agree with most of it. But, uhm, they might not. Just sing your damned song and leave them personally and individually out of it.
 
2006-09-05 7:30:25 PM  
I'd leave a long comment, but I'm off to see the 911 movie.
 
2006-09-05 7:30:26 PM  
YAY, my hometown makes FARK!!!

btw, Frazier is a tool.
 
2006-09-05 7:30:40 PM  
This guy's mother is one of my customers. I just saw her yesterday, and then I bought a shirt: to honor the soldiers, and to bemoan the fact that they died to further the foolish ambitions of a semi-retarded recovering cokehead President.

It is important to keep the names and faces of the fallen at the forefront of our discussions about the war.
 
2006-09-05 7:30:54 PM  
Dubya et al used their names up until they were dead and no more use to him. Who is this guy but a latecomer?
 
2006-09-05 7:31:31 PM  
Weaver95: And articles like that are why the anti-war crowd will NEVER get anyone to listen to them.

How many people are opposed to the war now? 60%+ of the country or some such shiat?
 
2006-09-05 7:33:33 PM  
jesusandeinstein: i mean, think of the logistics!

Yes, let's.

You are aware that many of the no-bid contracts are won by Halliburton simply because no other company exists in the world that can fulfill them?
 
2006-09-05 7:33:34 PM  
Very few anti-war protesters are prepared to write 2,600 names on a T-shirt by hand. But many are prepared to pay $18 for a T-shirt.


Donald Rumsfeld has written the name of every fallen soldier by hand in letters to the family. Every single one.

The fact that he was actually able to do this gives you a sense of proportionality, doesn't it?
 
2006-09-05 7:34:07 PM  
partisan, don't try to trip up Weaver with facts, to him reality is just a hurdle to be jumped...
 
2006-09-05 7:35:35 PM  
Free speech surrenders.
 
2006-09-05 7:36:36 PM  
Biff_Steel: Free speech surrenders.

Right. Because we all know free speech means anything that CAN be said MUST be said.

/good taste, manners and public mores also surrender
 
2006-09-05 7:37:35 PM  
Free speech shouldn't be restricted to speech people find appropriate in their own little world.
 
2006-09-05 7:38:23 PM  
Here's a thought:

Put aside the morality or appropriateness of the argument; There are no real ethics in business, anyway.

Our soldiers are employees of our government. They work for us and are paid for with our tax dollars. I'm pretty sure we can use/abuse them however we please, within the limits of the law. Can I wear a t-shirt with my president's name on it? Then why not a soldier? Not only do we employ them both, but they both volunteer to be in that position.
 
2006-09-05 7:38:41 PM  
I recall in the late 60s and early 70s, it was the stylish thing to do to wear the name, rank and serial number of a Vietnam War POW on a braclet which cost $8 or so. The price would be much higher today.

Despite the fact there were only 850 or so POWs, hundreds of thousands of those bracelets were sold; I didn't hear anyone complain about profiteering.

Double standard as usual?
 
2006-09-05 7:39:03 PM  
It is the effort to make a profit he opposes, as if trying to make a profit were an un-American activity. ... When we are talking about thousands of names, there is no practical way to incorporate those names into anti-war gear unless some money changes hands. Very few anti-war protesters are prepared to write 2,600 names on a T-shirt by hand. But many are prepared to pay $18 for a T-shirt.

This is so bad, you almost want to believe a conservative wrote it in some attempt to bury the anti-war viewpoint.
 
2006-09-05 7:39:24 PM  
The CraneMeister: good taste, manners and public mores also surrender

You can use your free speech to protest what you see as bad taste, manners and public mores, right?
 
2006-09-05 7:39:50 PM  
no other company exists in the world that can fulfill them

Bullshiat.
 
2006-09-05 7:39:51 PM  
I'll readily agree that it's tasteless, but the names are in the public domain.

Let me put in this way: if you want to put my name on a T-shirt, there's nothing I can do to stop you, so long as you aren't libeling me in the process. I may dislike it, I may hate it, and I may well conclude that you are an anus-huffing douch, but you still have the right to do it, regardless.

I don't see how being a soldier, or the family member of a soldier (even a dead one), makes an difference. The 1st Amendment does not make any exceptions for tastelessness.
 
2006-09-05 7:40:03 PM  
Agh!_My_brain!
Donald Rumsfeld has written the name of every fallen soldier by hand in letters to the family. Every single one. The fact that he was actually able to do this gives you a sense of proportionality, doesn't it?

Well, not all at once...on a T-shirt. Plus isn't that part of his job?

/neahh!
 
2006-09-05 7:41:35 PM  
The CraneMeister: Right. Because we all know free speech means anything that CAN be said MUST be said.

/good taste, manners and public mores also surrender


Exactly. Free speech means the right to be tasteful and never offend anybody.

/duh
 
2006-09-05 7:41:37 PM  
Number of troops killed so far in Iraq:
2657

Number of civilians killed on 9/11:
2752

Sources:
http://icasualties.org/oif/
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/10/29/wtc.deaths/
 
2006-09-05 7:41:47 PM  
anrwlias: if you want to put my name on a T-shirt, there's nothing I can do to stop you, so long as you aren't libeling me in the process

Not quite true--if I establish that you are profiting from using my name without my permission, I can force you to stop.
 
2006-09-05 7:42:56 PM  
I don't particularly agree with using the names to make a profit- but can see it's an effective way to make a point. However the families of those concerned should have granted permission before use of the names... impractical though it may be. The man makes a persuasive argument.
 
2006-09-05 7:43:54 PM  
The CraneMeister

You are aware that many of the no-bid contracts are won by Halliburton simply because no other company exists in the world that can fulfill them?

Ah, that's good to hear. For a moment I thought it had something to do with Dick Cheney working for them prior to becoming Vice-President. Glad to see that's been cleared up.
 
2006-09-05 7:44:06 PM  
olddinosaur:

It's actually much more nuanced than that. I think it's safe to assume that every POW would be in favor of being released. You cannot, however, assume that every dead soldier would be anti-war.
 
2006-09-05 7:45:08 PM  
There are thousands of T-Shirts all over the net that use the names of people without their permission.

E.g. the hundreds of shirts mentioning Bush/Cheney.
Hell, you can use Bush's farking _face_ without his permission.
[image from i.cnn.net too old to be available]
The second letter mentions privacy, but these soldiers' names have been public since the millitary published them. The cat's out of the farking bag here.
 
2006-09-05 7:45:56 PM  
It would seem a reasonable form of protest if every cent of profit is donated to a charity for veterans or their families.

U2 flashed the names of all of the 9/11 victims during the freaking superbowl and no one accused them of exploiting the dead in order to enhance their reputation as socially conscious.

Anyhow - I am decidedly anti Iraq war/pro withdrawal and find is sickening when members of the republican armchair brigade talk about "cutting and running" when they themselves would NEVER serve.

THREE YEARS AND COUNTING of our soilders being ambushed, IED'ed, sniped, maimed, disfigured and otherwise put into an emotional blender with no end in sight and they have the AUDACITY to call leaving "cutting and running".

Tell me about cutting and running when it's YOUR kid who has his legs amputated after an IED goes off.

I hate hate hate hate hate this administration.
 
2006-09-05 7:45:59 PM  
So CNN, NBC, Fox, all the others can report a 'soldier's death' in print, tv, or internet, but it is not ok to do the same on a t-shirt? Everyone listed has one thing in common: to make a profit. Draw the line fully or don't draw it at all.
 
2006-09-05 7:50:14 PM  
Mr. Bitterness

No, that has never before been the duty of SECDEF.

Do you think Stimson wrote that many for the 300,000 dead while he held that office?

How's that crow taste thar?
 
2006-09-05 7:50:25 PM  
Privacy is a stupid argument against this because these names are anything but secret.

Frankly, these men all died serving there country. They were not free citizens, they were actually working in service to every American citizen.

There names and deaths are everyones responsibility. Therefore everyone also has the right to use them when presenting there stance on the war.
 
2006-09-05 7:53:19 PM  
merreborn: There are thousands of T-Shirts all over the net that use the names of people without their permission.

The law draws a sharp distinction between celebrities and other folks.

People often get famous against their will: Because they witnessed something, got sued, were involved in a court case, etc. If someone in that category wants to sue for libel they merely need to demonstrate that the publisher said something demonstrably untrue that reasonable diligence should have allowed them to avoid.

Movie stars, professional athletes, politicians and so on are in the public eye on purpose. If you're a celbrity and you want to sue the bar is very, very high: You have to prove not only that something was untrue, but that the publisher KNEW it was untrue and published it anyway with "malice aforethought" AND you have to demonstrate actual loss or damages.

Soldiers who die in war and their survivors are generally not in this second category--with exceptions such as Cindy Sheehan, of course.
 
2006-09-05 7:53:36 PM  
Well, as has been pointed out, our chickenhawk-in chief has been exploiting them, what's worse? T-shirt guy or the guy who sent them off to die for lies?

Personally, I'm sick of having to defend being antiwar. What's so farking crazy and wrong about opposing the wanton, capricious, and unnescessary waste of human life?
 
2006-09-05 7:54:20 PM  
The CraneMeister: If someone in that category wants to sue for libel

Clarification: Anyone can sue anyone for anything, of course. What I mean here is if you want to sue for libel and be confident it will stick.
 
2006-09-05 7:55:06 PM  
The t-shirt may be in poor taste, but I see no valid reason why they should be prohibited from selling them. Perhaps there is someone who wants to do the converse and print t-shirts with a list of all the troops who earned the xxxxx medal in this latest campaign. Whether or not you would like to purchase or even see this product is a political issue, and legislating against their sale stinks of censorship--if only more people read futurist British Science-Fiction then freedom would be safer.

I find it ironic that America as a brand trumpets freedom of speech and capitalism, while (some of) America the people oppose what is a legal and capitalist endeavour.
 
2006-09-05 7:55:15 PM  
Douchebag move, but constitutionally protected.
I still think the guy making them deserves the mother of all cockpunches. My wife lost a close friend from high school in Iraq and if I ever his name on a t-shirt I'm beating the person wearing it until I pass out from exaustion.
 
2006-09-05 7:55:24 PM  
FredGarvin: Well, as has been pointed out, our chickenhawk-in chief has been exploiting them, what's worse? T-shirt guy or the guy who sent them off to die for lies?

No soldier in Iraq was sent there without his or her permission.
 
2006-09-05 7:56:40 PM  
Agh!_My_brain!: No, that has never before been the duty of SECDEF.

Do you think Stimson wrote that many for the 300,000 dead while he held that office?

How's that crow taste thar?


No one with that name has ever held that office. Link.

[image from wildliferescue.ca too old to be available]
Boiled, or fried?

/Stimson was Secretary of War under FDR and Taft
 
2006-09-05 7:57:24 PM  
twistofsin

No, you do not have your right to use my name, if I am in the military or not, to advance your stance on anything.

It is immoral at best, libelous at worst.

Caselaw is pretty clear, soldiers are still private people. The same freedom you have when using names like Bush and Princess Di do not apply.

Using the names of the war dead to represent something not specifically and ~=universally an honorable testament to remembrance is, while perhaps legal, is still abominable.
 
Displayed 50 of 174 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.