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(Some Guy)   SF Chronicle said Pete McCloskey is called anti-Semitic for supporting Palestine, a partial truth as misleading as saying David Duke is called racist just because he opposes affirmative action   (volokh.com) divider line
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183 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jun 2006 at 5:29 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



20 Comments     (+0 »)
 
Froman
2006-06-07 5:38:33 PM  
Um, if you deny the Holocaust or attempt to paint it as milder than it actually was, then you're anti-semitic. Same goes for people who are fans of Yasser Arafat. He even used the term Jewish in a negative connotation. So yea, hes an anti-semite.
 
Gsm136
2006-06-07 5:42:17 PM  
I call Tatsuma
 
zookeeper
2006-06-07 5:43:54 PM  
What?
 
soia
2006-06-07 5:45:51 PM  
non issue.
 
egge
2006-06-07 5:47:38 PM  
Systematic killing of a "particular" people= holocaust.

Jews killing Palestinians= defense.

Nazis killing 20,000,000 Soviets= War

America/England firebombing civilian Dresden, Tokyo, et. al.= War

Nazis killing 5.1-6 Jews prone to antithesis of fascism or communism=Holocaust

War obviously, to non-antisemites, is not systematic.

I understand.
 
rppp01a
2006-06-07 5:52:21 PM  
I call Tatsuma

Beat me to it.
Let me start it off: everyone at some point in their life has hated and surpressed the mighty Jew. Those of Judain descent would never be allowed in Madison Square Garden for fear they would be killed!
 
DeathBySarcasm
2006-06-07 5:54:23 PM  
War obviously, to non-antisemites, is not systematic.

Non-antisemites... you mean semites?

Genocide is the word you're looking for when you say "Systematic killing of a particular people". Holocaust is a far different word.
 
mediaho
2006-06-07 6:02:33 PM  
I was going to mention there are other reasons DD is considered racist but having RTFA, well done, smitty. Well done.
 
egge
2006-06-07 6:11:20 PM  
DeathBySarcasm: Non-antisemites... you mean semites?

No I mean non-antisemites. Or non-antisemitic. There's a difference. One can be considered anti-semitic and be semitic. Hence the semites blowing up Jewish pizza joints in the name of Allah. Or you can be a non-antisemite and be gentile or agnostic. It gets confusing after a point, then my head asplodes in an antinonantiantisemitic euphoria related to RedBull.

"Particular" refers to European Jewry.
 
SpacePunk
2006-06-07 6:11:26 PM  
----------------------
DeathBySarcasm

Genocide is the word you're looking for when you say "Systematic killing of a particular people". Holocaust is a far different word.
-------------------------

'Holocaust' is used to make the attempted genocide (I use 'attempted' because it failed the basic test of killing all of the Jews) of the Jews more 'special' than other acts of genocide through history. In other words, the Jews are special so the attempted genocide of the jews requires a special name to make it stand out in the crowd.
 
DeathBySarcasm
2006-06-07 6:22:16 PM  
Egge--

I follow ya. But a double negative for anything is clunky, especially in a compound pronoun. Leads to words like "antidisestablishmentarianism" which is a real word that should never have existed. Why not just say pro-semite? Or semite sympathizers? Or semite-neutral? Or anything. Don't mind me; buggy words are just a pet peeve of mine.

SpacePunk--
I never argued that holocaust was a word reserved for the Jews, only that it has different meanings than genocide, often associated with massive destruction by fire. "Nuclear Holocaust" is a good use of the word which doesn't necessarily have to include genocide.
 
Jon Snow
2006-06-07 6:49:53 PM  
Froman: Um, if you deny the Holocaust or attempt to paint it as milder than it actually was, then you're anti-semitic. Same goes for people who are fans of Yasser Arafat. He even used the term Jewish in a negative connotation. So yea, hes an anti-semite.

You need to check your sources, mate. He never denied the Holocaust or questioned the number of Jewish dead during the Holocaust.

Did you see the update in TFA? Mark Hertsgaard viewed the video of the speech in question and found no such comment. (pops)

I don't know if McClosky is an anti-Semite or not. But if you think he is based upon what you read and didn't look into it, shame on you.
 
Froman
2006-06-07 7:42:41 PM  
Actually I was just going by what appeared after that section, in which the author casts doubt regarding Hertsgaard's statement because McCloskey himself didn't deny it, since their site linked to a news article that did quote him as using the term "so-called Holocaust". I can concede I was wrong for not giving him the benefit of the doubt but I think that just attending one of these meetings other than to offer counterpoint doesn't look favorably.
 
Jon Snow
2006-06-07 7:56:54 PM  
Froman: I think that just attending one of these meetings other than to offer counterpoint doesn't look favorably.

Fair enough. But it sure isn't enough to call someone an anti-Semite, either.

BTW-he talked to them about how freedom of thought was a basic right in America, and also "devoted much of his speech to describing how Jews had long been discriminated against in the United States and abroad."

Who the fark greenlighted this worthless thread anyway?
 
Party Boy
2006-06-07 8:02:55 PM  
Who the fark greenlighted this worthless thread anyway?

I was wondering the exact same thing myself
 
swahnhennessy
2006-06-07 8:25:06 PM  
[image from img104.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
Thrag
2006-06-07 10:05:46 PM  
Is that were his head landed after the bomb belt went off.

/rimshot
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2006-06-08 12:14:20 AM  
SpacePunk: In other words, the Jews are special so the attempted genocide of the jews requires a special name to make it stand out in the crowd.

Can't quite agree. What makes the Holocaust unique is not just that Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews; it's that he tried to exterminate so many others as well--gypsies, homosexuals, etc.

And what makes it different from other attempted genocides is how close he came to succeeding--he murdered more than 6 million Jews. More than a third of the Jews in the world and a far higher percent of those in Europe.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2006-06-08 12:15:47 AM  
Jon Snow: Fair enough. But it sure isn't enough to call someone an anti-Semite, either.

Maybe. But when the paper said he was called an anti-Semite simply for supporting Palestine they're hardly telling the whole story, either.
 
Jon Snow
2006-06-08 8:30:59 AM  
The CraneMeister
But when the paper said he was called an anti-Semite simply for supporting Palestine they're hardly telling the whole story, either.

Agreed. I was responding to a specific post.
 
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