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(Some Guy)   Democrats hate popular Democratic author because of her "lifestyle choice": She's a stay-at-home mom and housewife   (time.com) divider line
    More: Ironic  
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1213 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 03 May 2006 at 10:51 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2006-05-03 8:00:21 PM  
Such lions of the left as Barbara Ehrenreich, the writers at Salon and much of the Upper West Side of Manhattan have made it abundantly clear to me that I ought to start packing my bags.

Yeah, and Lord knows that sample is a microcosm of the Democratic party.
 
2006-05-03 8:03:45 PM  
I'm a Democrat and I don't hate her.
My wife's a stay at home mom, too.

So, submitter kindly go fark yourself to death.
 
2006-05-03 8:05:10 PM  
I have to hate who now?
 
2006-05-03 8:06:24 PM  
Sounds to me like she is also a popular author.

Weird how people are starting to be able to spot this nonsense rhetoric that the right is spewing...

Death gasp? I think so.
 
2006-05-03 8:07:00 PM  
Oh, and, just a note, Democrats all over the country can't stand those East Coast Democrats. They're all a bunch of peckerheads.

/see, see how I generalized there? Wasn't that wholly shiatty of me? Wow. Just like smitty, I can castigate all I want with no basis in reality.

//No idea why this is the headline that set me off today.
 
2006-05-03 8:08:54 PM  
The fringe of either party is insane. Period.
 
2006-05-03 8:10:16 PM  
Hmm. The article author is full of shait.
Dems don't hate housewives or traditional families.
Just because some reporter asked her about her political affiliation doesn't mean the democratic party pushed her out.

Since most dem movements are trying to make sure FAMILIES have healthcare and fair labor standards so they can afford to feed their kids I hardly see it as anti-family.

Her article sounded more like far right wing nonsense about the "war on housewives" that Dobson made up. She needs to quit being such a crybaby or people will think she's a republican.
 
2006-05-03 8:10:18 PM  
The Democrats made a huge tactical error a few decades ago. In the middle of doing the great work of the '60s--civil rights, women's liberation, gay inclusion--we decided to stigmatize the white male. The union dues--paying, churchgoing, beer-drinking family man got nothing but ridicule and venom from us. So he dumped us. And he took the wife and kids with him.

Anyone disagree with this?
 
2006-05-03 8:12:39 PM  
"The Democrats made a huge tactical error a few decades ago. In the middle of doing the great work of the '60s--civil rights, women's liberation, gay inclusion--we decided to stigmatize the white male. The union dues--paying, churchgoing, beer-drinking family man got nothing but ridicule and venom from us. So he dumped us. And he took the wife and kids with him.

And now here we are, living in a country with a political and economic agenda we deplore, losing election after election and wondering why.

It's the contempt, stupid."


OMG...I have finally seen a rational Democrat. Maybe people like her will take back the DNC from all of the rabid leftwing loonies like those that plague TF. They might even have a chance of clobbering the GOP for a change. It might actually cause me to break my vow to "Never vote for a Communist Democrat".
 
2006-05-03 8:15:35 PM  
Bohemian: Since most dem movements are trying to make sure FAMILIES have healthcare and fair labor standards so they can afford to feed their kids I hardly see it as anti-family.

And yet, there is nothing more anti-family in this country than the welfare state.
 
2006-05-03 8:18:13 PM  
KaponoFor3: Anyone disagree with this?

Nope.
 
2006-05-03 8:18:19 PM  
KaponoFor3: Anyone disagree with this?

I'm going to go with "yes".

How on earth did the Democrats stigmatize the white male?
 
2006-05-03 8:19:12 PM  
hitchking: How on earth did the Democrats stigmatize the white male?

Were you asleep during the 80's and 90's?
 
2006-05-03 8:19:41 PM  
Is hating whoever this is covered as part of the daily 2-minute-hate or do I need to do something special. After that whole hating-Christmas thing I've gotten a little burnt out.
 
2006-05-03 8:20:52 PM  
miek: Is hating whoever this is covered as part of the daily 2-minute-hate or do I need to do something special.

Eurasia! Eurasia!
 
2006-05-03 8:21:01 PM  
PacManDreaming: Were you asleep during the 80's and 90's?

Nope, but I was young and in Canada. Elaborate if you feel the need.
 
2006-05-03 8:22:07 PM  
I do! I'm a liberal and I HATE HER!! HATE HATE HATE!!!!

Wait... who in the what now?
 
2006-05-03 8:24:32 PM  
hitchking: How on earth did the Democrats stigmatize the white male?

They started blaming the white man for everything wrong in the world in the 60's. That drove a lot of people who weren't the "evil white man", yet were still white, into the hands of the Republican party (gotta love the two party system). The author is saying those men went to the GOP and took their wives and kids with them, and now the Democrats are feeling the consequences of that.
 
2006-05-03 8:27:40 PM  
KaponoFor3: They started blaming the white man for everything wrong in the world in the 60's.

Yes, I've heard the talking point. Could you provide something more specific?
 
2006-05-03 8:31:17 PM  
hitchking: Nope, but I was young and in Canada. Elaborate if you feel the need.

Ah, that explains.

There's a wealth of information of the internet that explains it more in depth than I am able.
 
2006-05-03 8:31:31 PM  
being trapped in an advancing fire couldn't drive me into what the Republicans have become lately.
 
2006-05-03 8:33:27 PM  
PacManDreaming: There's a wealth of information of the internet that explains it more in depth than I am able.

Hey, I'm willing to learn. Got a link or something?
 
2006-05-03 8:33:41 PM  
hitchking: Yes, I've heard the talking point.

WTF is a talking point?

I'm not the one making the argument, by the way, it's the woman in the article.

It's nothing specific that the "white man" did, but rather the fact that the Democratic party began to demonize the idea of the "white man" as everything that is evil and wrong with the world and the injustices that were present in the country. While it's true that white citizens were definitely at the heart of the civil rights problem of the south, the author seems to say that this served as motivation for white people who weren't racist or bigoted to abandon the Democratic party because they likely felt the Democratic party didn't want them anymore.

Or something like that.
 
2006-05-03 8:36:33 PM  
KaponoFor3: It's nothing specific that the "white man" did, but rather the fact that the Democratic party began to demonize the idea of the "white man" as everything that is evil and wrong with the world and the injustices that were present in the country.

I follow. But what exactly gave you this impression? I may not have been around back then, but you can't expect me to hear "Democrats hate the white man" and just accept it without something backing it up.
 
2006-05-03 8:38:06 PM  
hitchking: But what exactly gave you this impression? I may not have been around back then, but you can't expect me to hear "Democrats hate the white man" and just accept it without something backing it up.

It's hard for me to say. Like you, I wasn't around at that time.

Hit up Wikipedia to read some of the stuff about the civil rights movement of the 60's. I'm sure there is stuff in there that can do a much better job of setting the scene than I can.
 
2006-05-03 8:39:48 PM  
I'm sorry, but... this woman must have some kind of inferiority complex.

To surmise that the Democratic party has contempt for stay-at-home moms? Huh?
 
2006-05-03 8:40:31 PM  
Of course, the hatred couldn't have anything to do with the nannies she had to raise her children, while she claimed that she was a "stay-at-home" mom.

Pops

But I guess we should never let the truth get in the way of our Two-Minute Democrat Hate.
 
2006-05-03 8:41:35 PM  
EconAtheist: To surmise that the Democratic party has contempt for stay-at-home moms? Huh?

What happened to the folks who are always whining about how Democrats love black stay-at-home moms on welfare?
 
2006-05-03 8:50:38 PM  
hitchking: Hey, I'm willing to learn. Got a link or something?

AskMen.com

Town Hall

Dr. Helen

Lew Rockwell

MenWeb

(all links pop)

I'm sure there are better sources out there, but I'm not in the mood to look.
 
2006-05-03 8:52:20 PM  
hitchking But what exactly gave you this impression?

My father the life long Democrat and member of the UAW watching a DNC convention in the early eighties and turning to my mother and saying, quote "When the hell did everything wrong in this country become my fault?"

A few years later when I was trying to find my political compass he shared a quote from Ronald Reagan: "I never left the Democratic Party, they left me."
 
2006-05-03 9:01:42 PM  
aengus66: Oh, and, just a note, Democrats all over the country can't stand those East Coast Democrats. They're all a bunch of peckerheads.


Yeah, true... but they are the ones running your party.
 
2006-05-03 9:05:33 PM  
The response from the Salon author referred to in the TFA:

link here.

Caitlin, we beg you: Stay a Democrat!

The editors of Broadsheet have offered me space to reply to Caitlin Flanagan's latest fantasy, published in Time magazine, that Barbara Ehrenreich and I are trying to drive her out of the Democratic Party because we "can't stand" her lifestyle choices.

Let's get a few things straight. First of all, Barbara and I haven't talked for almost a year, unfortunately, but when we last discussed projects we might tackle together, driving people out of the Democratic Party wasn't one of them. The Democrats do that well enough themselves, and Barbara and I focus on what isn't getting done. I've been thinking about a program to drive the children of convicted Republican officials to prison to visit their parents, as that will be a growing demographic in the coming months, but I haven't gotten around to organizing that. (Barbara, call me, OK?)

Second, my problem isn't with Flanagan's lifestyle choices, it's with her lying about them. Having a full-time nanny until her children went to preschool makes her privileged; it doesn't make her an at-home mom who's given up her career for her family, and I did take the time away from my family to point that out in a book review recently. And now she's traveling the country flacking her book, flirting with Stephen Colbert (OK, I admit I'm jealous), creating straw women and writing about her martyrdom at the hands of feminists, all the while bragging about how she's an at-home mom: Well, I don't know how she does it. Except with a lot of self-delusion. And a lot of self-dramatization. Her reference to herself in Time as "the beaten wife of the Democratic Party" is an analogy that beaten wives everywhere are sure to appreciate.

Flanagan's shtick isn't so much about enduring domestic violence as it is about selling books and getting rich and, really, that's fine with me, I've got plenty to do myself. But the notion that feminists or Democrats or liberals are demonizing her lifestyle choices is ludicrous. I happened to be lucky enough to make choices similar to Flanagan's when my daughter was small: I worked part-time and had an at-home baby sitter (but only three days, not five) until my daughter went to preschool; I worked at home until she was 8. (Since then, we've both lived at Salon.) My problem is not Flanagan's putting her children first, if indeed she's done that; my problem is her misrepresenting her choices and then boasting about her fantasy family -- and then having the gall to condemn other women for not living that fantasy life themselves.

But let me be clear: Keep on voting for Democrats, Caitlin! Keep on bragging about writing checks to Doctors Without Borders (please keep writing the checks, too). Still, I would understand if you start to find yourself a wee bit more comfortable with Republicans. When it comes to the culture war, Flanagan reminds me of the Republican chickenhawks who never went to war themselves -- George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld chief among them -- but recommend it for other people. For someone who glorifies full-time at-home mothers, Flanagan has spent amazingly little time being one.


-- Joan Walsh
 
2006-05-03 9:11:17 PM  
PacManDreaming: I'm sure there are better sources out there, but I'm not in the mood to look.

Sorry I was off at Tim Hortons...

Okay, I checked your links. They all are about male-bashing- but nothing to do with Democrats as far as I can tell.

I agree male-bashing is a problem, especially in the media. But how is that the Democrats' fault?

Tunk87: My father the life long Democrat and member of the UAW watching a DNC convention in the early eighties and turning to my mother and saying, quote "When the hell did everything wrong in this country become my fault?"

Okay... but what was he referring to? What had supposedly become his fault?
 
2006-05-03 10:12:49 PM  
hitchking: Okay, I checked your links. They all are about male-bashing- but nothing to do with Democrats as far as I can tell.

Crap. I hate when I have one part of my debate ready and forget to tie in with the other half. ADD really sucks sometimes.

I don't care for the site, but I couldn't find the original article

Salon.com
 
2006-05-03 10:21:14 PM  
aengus66
Oh, and, just a note, Democrats all over the country can't stand those East Coast Democrats. They're all a bunch of peckerheads

Then how did one get the party nomination?

From where I stand I thought there were two types of Democrats, west coast hippies, and the east coast baby boom kids.

Are there others? And don't say Southern Democrat, cause they are just DINOs
 
2006-05-03 10:39:00 PM  
What on earth is this woman blathering about? Does she really expct me to believe that Democrats are responsible for some sort of white male persecution complex? The Democratic party has done nothing but cheerleading since Clinton was elected the first time. I guess they liked it so much they kept on doing it when W took over.

Since when has the Democratic party taken any kind of stand on anything?
 
2006-05-03 10:59:34 PM  
PacManDreaming

The problem with the links you've posted (and, really, with any such links you can post) is that all you've done is demonstrated that (a)there has been some male-bashing in the US in recent decades and (b)the Democratic party has become associated with an anti-white-male stance. Youv'e done nothing to prove that the Democrats have done anything to deserve such an association. I would contend that, fringe Democrats aside, they have not.

If you pay attention to the rhetoric on both sides of this particular issue, you will see that the "right" has done far spent far more time complaining that the "left" is anti-male, than the left has spent doing anything that could remotely be construed as being anti-male. To argue that the "left" is anti-male simply because the "right" has said so really proves nothing.

To use a sports analogy (since sometimes it feels like politics in this country is little more than a spectator sport - "Go Team!"), it would be like arguing that the Yankees suck because Red Sox fans chant "Yankees Suck!" at every opportunity.
 
2006-05-03 11:00:03 PM  
"What do you you expect me to do, stay at home and bake cookies??"

Hillary at her most Hillariest.
 
2006-05-03 11:06:12 PM  
Wow. What a whiney, crybaby, self-centered coont. The GOP can have her.

"Hi, I'm completely up myself!"
[image from img152.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
2006-05-03 11:17:12 PM  
Hate.... is not a word I try to use.
 
2006-05-03 11:23:40 PM  
A whiner with a persecution complex...she sure does SOUND like the latest group of Republicans.

Did I miss the part where she said she was doing something to help bring her party back to conservative values?

/and who let her out of the kitchen to whine?
//I keed I keed
///I slash I slash
 
2006-05-03 11:24:27 PM  
I support that whole heartedly and I am a staunch liberal. Whatever makes her happy as a person is fine by me. I can't stand it when either side tries to tell anybody what the "correct" way of life is.

At least this story gives me a few more "crazy partisan nutjobs" to add to my "never, ever, listen to them" list (at about 2 billion names so far, most of you reading this post are on it, ha. ha. ha.)

I win the universe.
 
2006-05-03 11:35:46 PM  
Tunk87: A few years later when I was trying to find my political compass he shared a quote from Ronald Reagan: "I never left the Democratic Party, they left me."

Which is exactly how I feel about the GOP now.

Only instead of vague generalizations of 'they stigmatized me!', I have concrete evidence of corruption, fraud and criminality to justify this position, let alone the hysterical xenophobia and religious intolerance that is really beginning to get going.
 
2006-05-04 12:02:40 AM  
Nannies aside, I think that what she's getting at is that there is a very small but extremely vocal and often well-publicized subset of the left that will tear you a new one if you show insufficient devotion to The Cause, no matter what your progressive credentials might be otherwise. Take what happens to Joe Lieberman - aside from supporting the war, he's a fairly conventional Democrat. But the true believers hate his guts, even though he rolled over for Al Gore like a cocker spaniel and ditched every single one of his moderate positions. Let's pick some issues out of a hat:

- regarding Katrina: if you point out that beyond the well-documented incompetencies of the Bush administration were layer upon layer of piss-poor planning and corruption at the state and local levels, you're an apologist for BushCo

- regarding sex education: if you note the religious right's aversion to classroom discussions of anything other than locking the genitalia into a steel cage until marriage, but also note the permissive left's aversion to educators discussing the damage screwing around can do to the human spirit, you're a prude for mentioning that Jesus-freak stuff

- regarding abortion: if you note that perhaps the woman who's on her third abortion (or more) has been somewhat less than diligent in her use of contraceptives, you're just this side of a clinic-bomber

- regarding gay rights: if you're fine with the concept of gay marriage and gay adoption and gay military service, but think more will be achieved by persuasion and example than by judicial decree, you're a homophobe

Too damn late for me to go on more, but I think you get the idea.

If you're a liberal - sometimes I am and sometimes I ain't - aren't the goals far too important to get sidetracked by a handful of loudmouths who'd rather yell to make themselves feel important than compromise and maybe win an election here or there?
 
2006-05-04 12:14:07 AM  
Gulper Eel: Nannies aside, I think that what she's getting at is that there is a very small but extremely vocal and often well-publicized subset of the left that will tear you a new one if you show insufficient devotion to The Cause, no matter what your progressive credentials might be otherwise.

good thing there's no one like that in the GOP camp
 
2006-05-04 12:41:38 AM  
Democrats are not against housewives. We're just against the social convention that women should be housewives. We believe that women can chose their career without suffering guilt-tripping biatches like this woman.
 
2006-05-04 1:05:07 AM  
Skleenar: good thing there's no one like that in the GOP camp

Neener neener neener! You do it too!

/Doesn't make either side right
 
2006-05-04 1:20:29 AM  
This thread lacks two things:
1) Snakes
2) Fire

/Only literal will do.
//None of your metaphorical slashies.
 
2006-05-04 1:26:52 AM  
Farkseidon Adventure: Thrashed by waves, the S.S. Fark is listing further and further to the starboard side.
 
2006-05-04 1:34:18 AM  
Damn vocal minorities on both sides.
 
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