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(Chron)   A new version of the national anthem in Spanish soon to debut at soccer games across the U.S. Rumored to not be the "Jose Can You See" version   ( divider line
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4454 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Apr 2006 at 1:17 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2006-04-28 03:59:27 PM  
parachutesDarling: principles in TX have to be bilingual,

Texas is something like 1/3 latino, so that makes sense.
2006-04-28 03:59:37 PM  
parachutesDarling: principles in TX have to be bilingual

My principles speak Latin.
2006-04-28 04:00:55 PM  

[image from too old to be available]
2006-04-28 04:01:14 PM  
No other country in America has their national anthem in 2 languages. It's a proven fact. 9 out of 10 doctors also recommend it.
2006-04-28 04:01:15 PM  
parachutesDarling: No other country has their national anthem in 2 languages. ILLEGALS GET OUT!

obz: Canada does.


Oh, and parachutesDarling, we do not have our anthem in two languages either.
2006-04-28 04:01:59 PM  
2006-04-28 02:51:30 PM Eochada

I know the feeling. The Mexicans were far nicer when millions of us snuck in their country, lived off their tax dollars and changed their national anthem when we translated it.


I'm confused, are you talking about when the Spanish sailed in, sacked their cities, enslaved the natives, emptied thier gold and Silvermines, and gave the survivors smallpox?

Or are you talking about the time a bunch of US good Ole Boys, rode into Mexican territory from the US, overstayed their "visas", and then went into open rebellion when Mexico tried to free their slaves?

Or maybe the Unprovoked US invasion that followed?

Or maybe you are talking about the US invasion in the 20's when the US army sent Gen Patton to Kill Mexican Revolutionary Pancho Villa?

Or the landing US send marines to invade in half a dozen other Central American countries whenever they tried to nationalize a US company?

Or the US oil Executives keeping the Corrupt PRI in Power because they were giving them sweet heart oil and gas deals (with the appropriate kickbacks of course.)?
2006-04-28 04:03:06 PM  
Why is a national anthem sung at a sporting event?
2006-04-28 04:03:58 PM  
Now tell me what it is the Mexicans are doing that your ancestors didn't do a generation or two ago?

Collecting welfare?
2006-04-28 04:04:00 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
"It was fascinating being here for the demonstrations this weekend. I guess that's why I didn't get clean towels in my hotel room this morning."
2006-04-28 04:04:03 PM  
How dare people translate a song into another language! We Americans would never do such a thing!

/"Silent Night" (Stille Nacht)
//"O Holy Night" (Cantique de Noël)
///"Oh, Christmas Tree" (O Tannenbaum)
////"Are You Sleeping, Brother John?" (Frerè Jacques)

Well, at least we'd never put our own words to someone else's National Anthem, anyway.

//"My Country, 'Tis of Thee" (God Save the King / Queen)

"America, the Beautiful" would make a better National Anthem for the USA anyway. It actually talks about America itself, not just a really old version of the flag (fifteen stars and stripes) and some War of 1812 battle and some anti-British rhetoric in Verse Three. Also, the melodic range is such that real average American citizens can actually sing it, unlike The Star-Spangled Banner which goes up so high that only a rare few singers can do it justice (remember, the tune was orignally a British drinking song sung in pubs) and whose lyrics were never even intended (by the author) to be set to music (Francis Scott Key wrote a poem about his impressions of a battle and his feelings on seeing the flag still flying over the besieged fort).
2006-04-28 04:04:46 PM  
Principles? Did you mean "principals?"
2006-04-28 04:05:12 PM  
For all you jackasses who keep trotting out the "you can't go to [pick a country in Europe] and expect them to use your language!", I submit the following safety sign from central Switzerland:

[image from too old to be available]

That's four languages, including Spanish, telling you it's mandatory to wear a hard hat. There are 77,000+ Spanish-speaking people in Switzerland at recent count. One in four workers in Switzerland is foreign-born. Switzerland is a great microcosm in Europe for our own mixing-pot situation. (Info Source)

Whenever a country houses enough of a population that speak another language, it is often encumbent upon that country to adapt to meet the needs of the new populace in some ways and not in others.

The tired "what if you go over there and expect them to adapt" scenario is too simplistic and pointless to the discussion because a single person isn't going to bring any need for an entire nation to adapt around that one person (hell, bring the whole family, it won't change the situation). We're not in a situation of adapting to a single Hispanic person. We have a large populace of people whose native language is not English. If they can learn our national anthem in their own language, I say let them.

* But it better damn well be our national anthem and not this wacky-taffy mock-up that these "artists" have created with little if any truth to the original song and lyrics.
2006-04-28 04:05:25 PM  
That 'Send them all home!' idea is unrealistic, and continuing to entertain unrealistic ideas is a waste of our time and resources.
Figure out a way to identify them and collect $/tax from them first, then decide where to go from there.

If you can't send 11 mimllion people home, convict a few hundred thousand of (the soon-to-be) crime of felony visa violation and send them to work camps for a few years. Hell, the "work" can be construction of a wall in the desert. Couple that with crack-downs on employers. If you set an example and remove the financial incentives, maybe the rest will leave on their own.

/just a thought
//what's so special about May 5 (here) -- lots of countries have a national holiday, and we don't celebrate them
///finacee is Chinese by birth, but even she doesn't celebrate October 1
2006-04-28 04:05:27 PM  
Inflatable Rhetoric
Why is a national anthem sung at a sporting event?

Because all other countries are so restrictive, oppressive, and unfree, we need to remind ourselves constantly that we are the best and most awesome at freedom.
2006-04-28 04:06:05 PM  

I'm confused...

I know. Think about it some more, between posts of dubious historical veracity and outright social ignorance.
2006-04-28 04:07:48 PM  
So we've just exterminated eleventy million Mexicans for defending the integrity of our National Anthem?

If you can't send 11 mimllion people home, convict a few hundred thousand of (the soon-to-be) crime of felony visa violation and send them to work camps for a few years.
2006-04-28 04:07:57 PM  
Action Replay Nick: we need to remind ourselves constantly that we are the best and most awesome at freedom.

Freedom rules!
2006-04-28 04:08:06 PM  
There were two families of illegals living together in a two bedroom apartment accross the street in another apartment complex.

I used to be sympathetic to 'the plight of the illegal immigrant looking for a better life'...

Until the week after they moved in that the area started having a rash of apartment garage break-ins, car break-ins and some other acts of vandalism. Two of the teenagers were caught breaking into a car two months after they moved in, and a little police work found they all were illegal (and promptly were kicked back to mexico).

I passed it off as 'bad apples' until last summer when a family of eight moved into my apartment building. I came home one night after work, opened the garage door to park my car inside, and here are two of their kids going through the boxes of computer parts in my garage!

Thankfully I scared the hell out of them by opening the door that they ran without stealing anything, but they sure made a hell of a mess.

I called the police and reported them but 'unless they were caught in the act by police' it was my word against theirs (and you know that all white men are just racist so my word counted for jack).

Didn't take much to see they jumped over the wall of the stalls since the walls didn't go all the way to the roof (a problem I fixed with 2x4s and sheetrock for my stall...approved by management too).

Two of the older men (Father and son I believe) sit on the steps of the complex and lear at all the women going in and out of the building. My girlfriend calls me on the cell when she parks her car it the evening so I can come down and escort her back the the apartment since they make suggestive and lewd comments to her otherwise. That isn't right.

Thankfully the problem is going away as I called the local Homeland Security Branch two weeks ago, commented that I thought the people downstairs may be illegal, and Tuesday morning I watched as four police squad cars and multiple offices escort them all out of the building in handcuffs (all except the kids) one has been in the apartment since, and on my lunchbreak today, the apartment was being cleaned out by police.

Two years ago I would have felt bad, but today I smiled the entire day just knowing that I didn't have to worry about my girlfriend nor did I have to worry about having anything stolen.

Not racist but definately HATE illegal immigrants. Just because the process to get in is HARD doesn't mean jack.

Now, I wouldn't have cared if the police had lined them up and shot the lot of them. Send a message to GTFO. Get a greencard and citizenship legally or don't come into this country at all.
2006-04-28 04:08:55 PM  
'bout time to go dust off this album and crank it to 11:

[image from too old to be available]
2006-04-28 04:09:35 PM  
Inflatable Rhetoric: Why is a national anthem sung at a sporting event?

I asked that earlier in one thread or another. I think the best answer was "to remind us that we are all on the same team".

Mind you that is the best feel-good answer. Honestly, I think the real reason is more along the lines of making children swear an oath of fealty (Pledge of Allegiance) that they do not understand and isn't binding -- it's indoctrination.
2006-04-28 04:11:50 PM  
Our national anthem sucks. It was written to the tune of a british drinking song while the british were destroying our capital because we invaded canada. Stupid. I think it should be America the Beautiful.

Mexico sucks, I understand why you wouldn't want to live there. I would hope though that some people would love their motherland enough to try and make it better. These are not the people who will be walking out on Monday. Shutting down cities sounds like a terrorist act to me.
2006-04-28 04:12:30 PM  

Now, I wouldn't have cared if the police had lined them up and shot the lot of them.

I was actually feeling sympathy for you until you let loose that little gem. Racist or not, you're still an asshole.
2006-04-28 04:12:55 PM  
So what's the difference

[image from too old to be available]

[image from too old to be available]
2006-04-28 04:14:06 PM  
I think it should be changed, if only because "America the Beautiful" is a much nicer piece, even with the God mentions.

I think the Battle Hymn of the Republic (or "John Brown's Body") is a more rousing tune, though the words are too religious for my taste. Perhaps someone can rewrite them into a suitable anthem. :)
2006-04-28 04:14:33 PM  
'Ich bin ein Berliner!'
It really woudn't have been all that meaningful or potent had it been said in English, would it?

"I am a pastry!"

It's not all that meaningful or potent in German, either...

/shouldn't have used the "ein"
2006-04-28 04:17:07 PM  
Mexico sucks, I understand why you wouldn't want to live there.

I sure as hell wouldn't, but I'm suspecting a large number of hardcore drug users will now try (at their own peril), since they've just decriminalized pot, cocaine, and even long as your stash is of the quantity representative of personal use only.
2006-04-28 04:20:08 PM  
Could somebody post the version of the "AHA" guy with sombrero?
2006-04-28 04:20:35 PM  
GhostFish:'Ich bin ein Berliner!'

I looked at that too. It's interesting, although "pastry" translation fits with what I remember from my high school German classes. Granted, that was a while ago, so I could be hallucinating...

/at least he wasn't in Hamburg... ;-)
2006-04-28 04:22:06 PM  
I am fast becoming anti "everything involved with these illegal idiots".
2006-04-28 04:22:34 PM  
GhostFish:'Ich bin ein Berliner!'

In any case, that's not really relevent to the current situation.

If anything, it's the rest of his speach (the English part delivered to a German-speaking audience) that's closer to the current problem.
2006-04-28 04:23:52 PM  
GhostFish: Of course, I'm assuming Wikipedia is correct, which automatically makes me an ass.

I think that wikipedia is being a bit kind. The line "ich bin ein Berliner" is not grammatically correct, however the use of the article is not commonly used for a proper noun.

Even if that is not exactly how a native German speaker would have said it, all the Germans understood what he meant. They were just happy that he was attempting to use German at all.
2006-04-28 04:24:13 PM  
Then how do you explain Kennedy's infamous "I am a Big Mac" speech in Hamburg, GhostFish?

/I kid.
//Though I did hear a "St. Pauli Girl" was actually a prostitute, so go figure.
2006-04-28 04:24:29 PM  
A bit off thread, but here it goes:

The problem is that the whole concept of immigration reform is a self-defeating activity. Trying to make it easier to become an American citizen reduces the value of being an American citizen.

The real competition to the illegal immigrant is not the American who wants their job, it is the wave of illegal immigrants that follow, thus insuring their wages and benefits will be held down for years to come (remember supply and demand?).

Is it really the American Dream to come here, live in squalor barely getting by on minimum wages for years while you bring your kids up in gang-infested neighborhoods, then your boss turns you down for a 50 cent per hour raise because there are dozens of new illegal immigrants who will do your job for the wage you started at years before? Talk about having the glass ceiling set at floor level!

I feel sorry for these folks, they are being sold a bill of goods by activist politicians and being exploited by their employers.

Making it easy to become an American citizen will not solve their problems.
2006-04-28 04:24:38 PM  
Good job Bschott007. BTW i didnt know they had mexicans in Fargo.
2006-04-28 04:28:54 PM  
ArcadianRefugee -

Inflatable Rhetoric: Why is a national anthem sung at a sporting event?

ArcadianRefugee -

I asked that earlier in one thread or another. I think the best answer was "to remind us that we are all on the same team"....

From wikipedia (pops), emphasis mine...

Several other adaptations of the anthem include changing some of the lyrics or to emphasize a word or phrase; mostly in order to show support for a sports team. Examples include:

Baltimore Orioles
The fans of the Baltimore, Maryland, Major League Baseball team have adapted the song to show support for the local team the Baltimore Orioles. Fans sing the song with a fortissimo emphasis upon the "Oh" in the stanza "Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave," which is a reference to the Orioles' nickname "the O's."

Atlanta Braves
An adaptation is made by fans of the Atlanta Braves, in Atlanta, Georgia. The last words of the song are changed from "home of the brave" to "home of the Braves."

Wayne Gretzky
On April 18, 1999, professional hockey star Wayne Gretzky played his final NHL game in New York. In tribute to the retiring superstar, the two singers of the Canadian and American anthems altered the words of their respective songs. The final words of the Canadian National Anthem (normally "O Canada we stand on guard for thee") became "O Canada we're going to miss Wayne Gretzky". The second to last line of the Star-Spangled Banner (normally "O'er the land of the free") was changed to "O'er the land of Wayne Gretzky".

Dallas Stars
It is also a tradition at Dallas Stars hockey games for fans to scream "Stars" twice during the song ("Whose broad stripes and bright Stars!" "Oh, say does that Stars!-spangled banner...".) The tradition has become so widespread that some opposing teams will not play the national anthem when the Stars are the visiting team, most notably the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim.

Atlanta Thrashers
Fans will shout NIGHT during the singing of the National Anthem at the line ("...gave proof through the night, that our flag was still there...). Before the Thrashers began playing in Atlanta's then-new Philips Arena in 1999, the minor-league Knights played in the Omni Center. NIGHT was always yelled during these games, and the tradition has been carried over by those long-time die-hard Atlanta hockey fans. Some argue that it has no place with the Thrashers, and is disrespectful to the National Anthem, however the tradition is still going strong.


Students at the University of California, Berkeley modified the phrases "Oh, say can you see" to become "Oh, say can U! C!" (as in University of California), "And the rockets red glare" becomes "And the rockets BLUE! glare" (Cal's colors are blue and gold while red is associated with rival Stanford), and "And the home of the brave" becomes "And the home of the BEARS!" (Cal's mascot is the Golden Bear). Students at Cornell University yell "RED!" and raise their right hands during the stanza "And the rockets red glare". At the North Dakota Fighting Sioux home hockey games, the tail end of the song "and the home of the brave", is changed by fans to "and the home of the SIOUX!!". At Princeton, no modifications are made to the song itself (as it is often played by The Princeton Band, rather than sung), but it is traditional to follow the final note with "Let's Go, Tigers!" to the point that the cheer has become a kind of tagged-on ending.
2006-04-28 04:30:16 PM  
Yo, Let tha guv'ment deport all them cholos. However, LET THE 8TH STREET LATINAS STAY!!!
2006-04-28 04:30:56 PM  
I support the Immigrants, but God help me I laugh every time at that "O RLYMENTE" Owl.

Bonus points to anyone else who can name the President of the United States who did NOT speak English as his first language. Yes, there is one.
2006-04-28 04:31:26 PM  
How dare anyone be proud of their language or culture!

I'm an American goddamn it, and that's why I speak American, the native language invented right here in America... the best country in America!
2006-04-28 04:31:58 PM  
Wow, where do you people find the energy to give a flying fark one way or another about this?

2006-04-28 04:32:01 PM  
Making it easy to become an American citizen will not solve their problems.

If there were some way to tell who would contribute to society, I wouldn't mind making their citizenship effortless.

On the flip side, if they were a net drain on society, I'd want it to be impossible.

Since there is no easy way to tell either one, I lean towards Heinlein's suggestion on earning citizenship.
2006-04-28 04:35:10 PM  
Let's start by getting Dave Matthews to sing in English
2006-04-28 04:35:43 PM  
mysha: The last words of the song are changed from "home of the brave" to "home of the Braves."

So they aren't singing the National Anthem, then.

"Oh, say does that Stars!-spangled banner..."

Neither are they.

"And the rockets red glare" becomes "And the rockets BLUE! glare"

Nor they.

How come no one complains about that?

/at any rate, I think the question was asked more in a historical sense, not each league's weirdnesses
2006-04-28 04:35:50 PM  

It was written to the tune of a british drinking song while the british were destroying our capital because we invaded canada.

You are wrong on *everything* you just said in that 1 sentence. Impressive.

Here are some helpful facts:

1) It wasn't "written to the tune"...It was written as a poem on a boat by a lawyer sent to negotiate the release of a political prisoner from the British but then became somewhat captive himself by the war situation that developed during the lawyer's time amid the British war vessels.

2) The tune of "To Anacreon in Heaven" wasn't a "drinking song"...have you ever even heard a real British drinking song? was originally composed for a musicians' society.

3) The lyrics weren't written while the British were destroying the capital. They were written during the bombardment from ship to land of Fort McHenry, a forward post defending the harbor of Baltimore (not DC). The capital had already been torched before the first thought of the poem had entered Key's head. Crushing Baltimore would knock out an important port and cripple America into submission. Unfortunately, they underestimated American land resistance at North Point and numerous entrenchments built close to the city that hampered the British land advancement and the sea bombardment did not waver forces established to prevent advancement of the British fleet.

4) They didn't attack us because of Canada. We attacked Canada because of them. They continued to search our ships for "british deserters" on the high seas, they didn't meet their part of the Treaty of Paris, and they kept taking our ships during our trade with France because of the Napoleonic Wars going on at the time in Europe. We declared war and *that's* when we acted to push into Canada and remove all British from the continent (which didn't work because they were better prepared and situated in Canada than we were in the USA on the border).

Thank you, come again.
2006-04-28 04:39:47 PM  
Snarfangel: If there were some way to tell who would contribute to society

Maybe one of those hats they used in Harry Potter to decide which house the new students would be assigned to . . .

"AAHHH this one is very hard, I think he will be a criminal. Send him out!"
2006-04-28 04:40:30 PM  
'Betcha lotsa self-hating liberals and outright socialists just will go ga-ga for this new version.

Stupid farktards.
2006-04-28 04:41:33 PM  
GhostFish:But I think people should realize that most Hispanics adults working in the United States, legally or illegally, don't have time to learn a second language.

I'm not so sure I can agree here... Maybe if they're old (like 50+), but most people can pick up a language pretty quickly by immersion.

My fiancee's parents came here from China in their 30's as graduate students. They had insane working hours (it's not easy to get a PhD in nuclear engineering), but they managed to learn English. Granted, they have a heavy accent, but they are fluent enough to deal with day-to-day conversations and scientific journals (which many native speakers would find difficult). They came here legally though, and if they had failed out of school (which would happen if they could not learn English), they'd have had to leave the country.

So it's perfectly possible if one is properly motivated.

/even I picked up a bit of Chinese in the month I spent there last summer -- immersion is nothinig like language classes, it works fast!
2006-04-28 04:42:44 PM  
Am I the only one who notices the split infinitive in the title? Shame on you, submitter.
2006-04-28 04:44:44 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

So many people have a problem with translation (and a little embellishing). So, when are the Christians among you going back to this version of the Bible?

If you think changing the words a little while maintaining the overall theme is a bad thing, it's time to brush up on the Hebrew, Greek and Latin.
2006-04-28 04:45:36 PM  

The national anthem should be sung in every language. Freedom is for everyone brave enough to create it in their own country or go through the hoops to find it here.

Now, if you can't function in society, you should probably learn english instead of whining and begging that everyone learns yours.
2006-04-28 04:46:06 PM  
Wow, where do you people find the energy to give a flying fark one way or another about this?

Freedom of Speech MUST be defended.
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