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(Wall Street Journal)   The government should give every American $10,000--and nothing more   (opinionjournal.com) divider line
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1688 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Mar 2006 at 9:36 AM (17 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2006-03-26 9:41:05 AM  
I'll start:

dumbest. idea. ever.
 
2006-03-26 9:51:16 AM  
Better Idea....

For every person, for every year until age 18, $2000. Then Unviersal Health Care and education/job training. Meal plans giving 2 meals a day, could even use hotdog carts or sandwich vans to distribute the goodies. Republicans would not qualify for the program, since they are mean spirited asshats.
 
2006-03-26 10:00:49 AM  
No serious student of entitlements thinks that we can let federal spending on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid rise from its current 9% of gross domestic product to the 28% of GDP that it will consume in 2050 if past growth rates continue.

You mean we might actually spend money on something useful instead of the 53% that goes to defense spending? Perish the thought!
 
2006-03-26 10:08:36 AM  
Reduce defence spending. Spend the money on sponsoring science research and technology development. GDP skyrockets even further. But that would mean less development for all the stupid cold-war era weapons systems that are useless against an insurgency or terrorists.
 
2006-03-26 10:17:30 AM  
Dude 53% of GDP doesn't go to defense

heck even 53% of the budget doesn't go to defense.
 
2006-03-26 10:17:39 AM  
I think we should throw military funding into science, and stop getting degrees in things like "African-American Studies" and "Gay and Lesbian Issues" and start getting them in engineering and the like again.

We stop gallivanting about the world playing cop, retain just enough of a standing military to counter invasions and the odd multinational effort, and start making shiat work here before trying to make it work somewhere else.

/crazy?
 
2006-03-26 10:36:49 AM  
If the US is a "welfare state" about to collapse under the strain of supporting its poor then what are those European countries that have much larger and more comprhensive entitlement programms? And more importantly why haven't any of them collapsed yet?
 
2006-03-26 10:46:00 AM  
Crap Idea.
What would happen to those that spent blew the cash in the first year.
Then what? Let them starve?
What if they didnt want to starve?
What if they walked into the gated communities and burnt them to the ground.
Thats what I'd do.
 
2006-03-26 10:50:36 AM  
[image from yosemite-sam.net too old to be available]

What in tardation???
 
2006-03-26 10:58:44 AM  
Or else you get France.
 
2006-03-26 11:03:59 AM  
Here is my plan:

1) Pave the rest of West Virginia and finish the Robert C. Byrd Memorial Building in every town there so we can be done with that and start something new.

2) Do like Hugo Chavez, have our government nationalize all American companies and industries on its soil and say its for the people.

3) Free health care for all

4) Free housing for all

5) Free (organic vegetarian) food for all

6) Gasoline engines prohibited, oil production and importation stopped immediately

7) Free Bubble-up

8) No smoking, drinking of alcohol, drinking of sodas, eating McDonalds or other unhealthful activities allowed except for recreational drug use which shall be unrestrained.

9) Automatic increase of the minimum wage by $15.00 per hour every year until all Americans are rich

10) No meat, leather, other animal products, Oreos, or movie theater butter allowed

11) Free Rainbow Stew

12) Display of the American flag or support the troops magnets shall not be allowed

13) Finally switch that amendment to actually say separation of church and state that shall apply in all cases except for campaigning in African-American churches or Buddhist temples which shall not be infringed.

14) Only felons, college professors, and Hollywood celebrities allowed to vote

15) The military shall be disbanded and funds redirected for more free Bubble-up and Rainbow Stew
 
2006-03-26 11:07:29 AM  
If the US collapses it will be under the weight of military spending. That is what killed the Soviet Union.
 
2006-03-26 11:11:42 AM  
LMAO @ Arkansas

That's ok.. we don't blame you. What are we to expect from the crowd that was taught 'rocks are very old' and aren't allowed to hear the E word in the classroom.

/points finger in arkansas' general direction and snickers
 
2006-03-26 11:33:05 AM  
9) Automatic increase of the minimum wage by $15.00 per hour every year until all Americans are rich

Nahh, just print more money and give some out to everyone. That'll fix it!
 
2006-03-26 11:36:20 AM  
You give every American $10,000 you are gonna see a lot of blacks with diamond encrusted tennis shoes that light up!

Or, $10,000 dollar rims on their 97' Saturn.
 
2006-03-26 12:01:12 PM  
arkansas: Here is my plan:

Go fark your sister.

1) Pave the rest of West Virginia and finish the Robert C. Byrd Memorial Building in every town there so we can be done with that and start something new.

What you want: Pave the National Parks. Convert Alaska into an oil refinery.

2) Do like Hugo Chavez, have our government nationalize all American companies and industries on its soil and say its for the people.

What you want: Laissez Faire, it worked so well in the 1800os!

3) Free health care for all

What you want: if you can't afford health care, get a medical book, a scalpel, and a bottle of scotch

4) Free housing for all

What you want: homeless euthanasia

5) Free (organic vegetarian) food for all

What you want: return to the days before The Jungle was written

6) Gasoline engines prohibited, oil production and importation stopped immediately

What you want: Muslim control over the US

7) Free Bubble-up

What you want: buttsecks

8) No smoking, drinking of alcohol, drinking of sodas, eating McDonalds or other unhealthful activities allowed except for recreational drug use which shall be unrestrained.

No alcohol was the realm of you Christan Temperance nazis. Hey, don't feel bad, you got an amendment!

What you want to ban: atheism, gays, music (except xtian music), liberals, evolution, dissent

What you want to make mandatory: prayer, jesus, pledge of alleigance, guns in every home, bible study, unquestioning loyalty to the government

9) Automatic increase of the minimum wage by $15.00 per hour every year until all Americans are rich

What you want: homelessness (see above)

10) No meat, leather, other animal products, Oreos, or movie theater butter allowed

What you want: national program to kill off a species every month. Too damn many of them anyway. All we need are the ones we eat and dogs.

11) Free Rainbow Stew

What you really want: to get out of the closet

12) Display of the American flag or support the troops magnets shall not be allowed

What you want: not displaying the American Flag or not supporting the troops shall not be allowed. Mandatory display of the Confederate flag as well. Troops are unanswerable to anyone, and torture just means they were guilty anyway.

13) Finally switch that amendment to actually say separation of church and state that shall apply in all cases except for campaigning in African-American churches or Buddhist temples which shall not be infringed.

What you want: President Pat Robertson. Religious oversight of government. Religious tests for all public offices.

14) Only felons, college professors, and Hollywood celebrities allowed to vote

What you want: only white christian males are allowed to vote.

15) The military shall be disbanded and funds redirected for more free Bubble-up and Rainbow Stew

What you want: the military shall patrol the street and shoot as needed. We also will be invading countries on a rotating basis, just to keep our l33t skillz up.

/yep, they are both ridiculous. Isn't it great to exxagerate and generalize based on fear and ignorance? Wow, that was fun. Time to get back to being a normal person. You can feel free to remain a retarded hick.
 
2006-03-26 12:06:27 PM  
The true welfare that the government doles out is to corporations, especially the companies that get military contracts.
Also, Insurance companies couldn't careless about the healthcare of people, they just want the money.
 
2006-03-26 12:11:38 PM  
Gary Busey on a Rampage: You give every American $10,000 you are gonna see a lot of blacks with diamond encrusted tennis shoes that light up!

Or, $10,000 dollar rims on their 97' Saturn.



I'd be offended if that wasn't so true.

Katrina funds misuse anybody....
 
2006-03-26 12:22:59 PM  
Go fark your sister.

Well there you go, rational discourse from the liberal side. B-rilliant.
 
2006-03-26 12:30:10 PM  
Nahh, just print more money and give some out to everyone. That'll fix it!

The liberals insist on raising the minimum wage. Of course its just to buy votes. But seriously, can the price floor on labor be too high? If not, why not $1,000 an hour? That would make everyone rich? Right? I mean, if a price floor on labor is good, then make it high enough so we can all work an hour and get rich enough so we all never have to work again.
 
2006-03-26 12:31:16 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER: Isn't it great to exxagerate and generalize based on fear and ignorance?

Go check out France or Cuba to see how well socialism works.

Yeah.
 
2006-03-26 12:35:03 PM  
arkansas: Well there you go, rational discourse from the liberal side. B-rilliant.

After you, sir

tarrant84: Go check out France or Cuba to see how well socialism works.

Yeah.


Yeah, because I espoused the virtues of both communism and socialism in my post. Care to tell me what else you think I believe?
 
2006-03-26 12:35:10 PM  
LMAO Arkansas

Oh man, thats some serious thought on your part. You are the next Chomsky. The arguments and debating points put forward in your post provides ample evidence that the educational system in your home state has provided you with such an education that I cannot hope to compete with it.

LMAO Arkansas

Man, I just can't fight the overpowering logic you have put forth. It's so far above my educational level.

LMAO Arkansas

We need to engrave this in bronze and post it on a plaque in your high school so that those coming behind you can aspire to your brilliance and can see what your states educational system can do for their own lives.

LMAO Arkansas

Wow.
 
2006-03-26 12:36:24 PM  
I would love for the government to let me decline Social Security benefits if it meant I could invest those deductions from my payroll into my own future.
 
2006-03-26 12:41:14 PM  
arkansas: Oh man, thats some serious thought on your part. You are the next Chomsky. The arguments and debating points put forward in your post provides ample evidence that the educational system in your home state has provided you with such an education that I cannot hope to compete with it.


WTF is up with this obsession with Chomsky? I never even heard of the fool until I heard it repeated ad-nauseum from the rightwing of Fark.

Arkansians shouldn't get into debates about education.

Round Blue Corner Assessments Round Blue Corner Source: NAEP - Math & Reading - 2005, Science - 2000, Writing - 2002
Arkansas U.S. (average)
Scale Score, Grade 4 Math 236 237
Scale Score, Grade 8 Math 272 278
Scale Score, Grade 4 Reading 217 217
Scale Score, Grade 8 Reading 258 260
 
2006-03-26 12:42:49 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER: Yeah, because I espoused the virtues of both communism and socialism in my post. Care to tell me what else you think I believe?

That's pretty funny, because you claim to know all the virtues arkansas believes.
 
2006-03-26 12:44:18 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER: Arkansians shouldn't get into debates about education.

[image from brain-terminal.com too old to be available]
 
2006-03-26 12:46:23 PM  
tarrant84: That's pretty funny, because you claim to know all the virtues arkansas believes.

Nope, he was making extreme, sweeping generalizations of what the left thinks, so I decided to do the same for the right. Of course neither side thinks this except the actual communists and actual facsits.
 
2006-03-26 12:46:49 PM  
Since the first one didn't come out right...
 
2006-03-26 12:51:22 PM  
Arkansians shouldn't get into debates about education.

Republicans in Arkansas can. My party has not controlled the legislature, educational priorities, standards, disbursements, or much of anything else related to Arkansas education since the end of the Civil War. The educational situation in Arkansas is solely, and completely, the property of the Democratic Party. Our legislature is one-party dominated. When the one-party legislature meets it has, literally, earned the nickname "Grabfest".
 
2006-03-26 12:51:57 PM  
I actually thought this was a rather interesting idea with some merit, util I remembered about half the people in this country are to irresponsible to be trusted with their own money, much less money from the federal government.
We hand out food stamps, not cash for grocries. Any program that hands out cash for health care, food, or retirement, will collapse under weight of bureaucracy needed to make sure American's are spending it 'wisely.'
 
2006-03-26 12:57:08 PM  
freidog: We hand out food stamps, not cash for grocries.

Ehhhh, kinda sorta. The problem with food stamps is the recipients use them on packaged dinners, lobster, steaks, and generally things which are expensive and don't require too much preparation. No potatoes, noodles, rice, and other cheap things.

Then, they still get back an EITC, pay nothing in rent due to section 8 housing, money for school (but you can drop the course, get a refund, sell your books, and collect the $$$), etc. All in all, if you have kids it ends up being around 40k a year, which isn't too bad.
 
2006-03-26 1:03:00 PM  
Nope, he was making extreme, sweeping generalizations of what the left thinks, so I decided to do the same for the right. Of course neither side thinks this except the actual communists and actual facsits.

I normally don't bother trying to rationally debate on posts that start with "Fark your sister". Nevertheless, you are correct. I made sweeping generalizations in a "modest proposal" sense.

But, you are wrong because a huge number of liberals really do believe the stuff I posted, not just communists. And a huge number conservatives do believe a bunch of the stuff you posted. I have more of a libertarian bent, so I get into plenty of arguments with my other conservatives on this stuff.

Both sides are destroying this country. To highlight, liberals believe that the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted very narrowly, that only the National Guard are really allowed firearms. Yet Amendments they favor need to be interpreted very broadly, such as privacy. Freedom of the press, broad....freedom of religion, narrow.

Conservatives believe that the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted broadly...but privacy narrowly. First amendment narrowly in regard to press, broadly in regard to religion.

Thats situational ethics on both sides and its screwing up the country.

My view has always been.....when the Constitution speaks on citizens rights....interpret it broadly.....when it speaks on powers of government....interpret it narrowly. That means freedom of the press, right to bear arms, freedom of religion.....all broad. Not just pick and choose. ALL.

The Constitution has words and word have specific meanings. We can't have some people in black robes "reinterpreting" all the time. If times change, and we need change, amend it. The Constitution is your foundation, it cannot be shifting sand.

You are naive if you do not think that a huge number of liberals believe the points I posted should be enacted. Go to DemocraticUnderground......you are naive if you don't think a large number of conservatives believe some of your points...go to FreeRepublic.
 
2006-03-26 1:10:12 PM  
arkansas: when the Constitution speaks on citizens rights

Now here is the big question.

What do you have a 'right' to? Gay marriage? Sodomy? Sex toys? Should the legislature of your state be allowed to ban any of these things?
 
2006-03-26 1:47:31 PM  
Sodomy....whatever people do between consenting adults in private is not the government's business.

Sex toys....ridiculous.

Gay marriage.....government should be out of the "marriage" business. Marriage is a religious institution by definition. I oppose gay marriage, because marriage is a traditional religious term and government should not be defining it. Its not fair to religions that do not believe in same sex marriages to have the term dictated by government. Government should be providing "civil unions" to any couple, "marriage" to NO couple. Marriage is the province of whatever religion you belong to. Civil Unions ar e the province of the state. Gay couples can do what they want, just don't steal the term marriage. They way to prevent this, is for government not to do "marriages" or use that terminology.
 
2006-03-26 1:49:35 PM  
tarrant84

Just to reiterate. I am opposed to the terminology "gay marriage". I am in favor of government getting out of the "marriage" business for both homosexual and heterosexual couples.
 
JSc
2006-03-26 2:08:12 PM  
The article is phenomenally simplistic--it's assuming that inflation doesn't take a bite out of the person's 2k/yr investment. At an average of 1% inflation over 45 years, that "20k" is really worth slightly less than 13k in terms of real purchasing power. At 2% inflation, the "real" value falls to slightly more than 8k. At 3%, that "20k/yr annuity" is worth all of 5.2k 2006 dollars per year.

The simple reality nowadays given the cost of living and the current economic picture is that someone making less than twice minimum wage at a full-time job has little or no hope of being able to save for retirement without the assistance of Social Security. Further, corporate wages, benefits and retirement packages for the average person/job (when they exist at all) have been planned around the presumption that the employee will have the assistance of Social Security when they retire.
 
2006-03-26 2:54:52 PM  
>_<

Not this shiat again.
 
2006-03-26 3:42:46 PM  
Has anyone here actually read Charles Murray's Losing Ground? If not, you don't have any rational basis to even participate in the discussion. Of course, this is Fark, so that won't stop anyone...
 
2006-03-26 4:00:58 PM  
arkansas:

Just to reiterate. I am opposed to the terminology "gay marriage". I am in favor of government getting out of the "marriage" business for both homosexual and heterosexual couples.

That should be fine. The government will give all interested couples a "Civil Union License". Then, whether straight or gay, a couple's given religious organization, cult, user group or whatever can bestow the term married upon them. That's so inclusive, but just amazingly different than what we have now!
 
2006-03-26 4:07:18 PM  

Ehhhh, kinda sorta. The problem with food stamps is the recipients use them on packaged dinners, lobster, steaks, and generally things which are expensive and don't require too much preparation. No potatoes, noodles, rice, and other cheap things.


I had a summer job at a supermarket

So I REALLY got a kick out of that reply.

The "welfare queen" is such a BS myth, unsupported by anything but Reagonomic anecdote.
 
2006-03-26 4:32:41 PM  
I vote that any disscussion point someone makes starts out with "In my view" rather than " thinks." It just makes things a hell of a lot easier to discuss. Then the opposite side can come out with what they think, and if you're truly on the correct side you can easily refute that, rather than resorting to making things up. But that's just me.
 
2006-03-26 5:20:12 PM  
cameroncrazy1984:

I vote that any disscussion point someone makes starts out with "In my view" rather than " thinks." It just makes things a hell of a lot easier to discuss. Then the opposite side can come out with what they think, and if you're truly on the correct side you can easily refute that, rather than resorting to making things up. But that's just me.

Thinks "in my view" sounds stupid and that cameroncrazy1984 is from Mars!
 
2006-03-26 7:12:44 PM  
I saw Charles Murray speak about this plan an month or two ago. It was interesting. He clearly knows it will never happen or work, but the speach was interesting.
 
2006-03-26 10:38:26 PM  
vrax: The government will give all interested couples a "Civil Union License".

This is a bit of a threadjack, but I once suggested to a friend, as a joke, that gay couples should incorporate as Not for Profit organizations just to give the legislators headaches.

"Yes, we have two major shareholders."
 
2006-03-26 11:41:29 PM  
Wouldn't giving everyone $10k annually just ensure that the cost of living eventually went up by about $10k?

tarrant84
Go check out France or Cuba to see how well socialism works.

Or Denmark, or the UK, or....

/nice one, slipping Cuba in there
//i'm sure its socialism and not the decades of embargos
 
2006-03-27 12:48:00 AM  
Wow thats just moronic. There is lots we need to do ending welfare is not one of them. Here are a few of my suggestions.

1. GREATLY slash military spending. We spend six times the amount as the nearest other nation which is China. Reduce our spending to about twice what China spends if not to equil what they do.

2. Eliminate all corporate welfare to companys that are already making good money, especially big oil.

3. Pass a read the bills law so ALL congress members have to read ALL the bills passed by them including spending bills.

4. Limit bills in congress to one subject, no attaching riders to build a bridge to nowhere on a military spending bill. This will eliminate a ton of Pork which is a waste of our tax dollers.

5. Legalize and tax pot. Yes it can be grown at home but a good amount of americans are too damned lazy to do so those will be buyers. For home growing make laws allowing it similer to home brewing laws, a certain amount allowed to be grown for own use or gifts a year as long as you aren't selling it. Also this reduces the money spent on the War on Drugs.
 
2006-03-27 2:47:08 AM  
Kurland: Your ideas make too much sense, they'd never be used.
 
2006-03-27 6:09:07 AM  
You know what I'd do with a single 10 grand gimme from the gov't? I'd give it right back to them to pay off the remainder of my school loan and call it even.
 
2006-03-27 9:23:20 AM  
The main advantage of this system is that it relies on payment in cash, which is usually much more efficient than payment in kind, even if we do have to trust people to make sound choices.

I think we can trust people to make the correct choices, in the long run. For instance, say you get $10,000 a year and you spend it on a fancy TV on year, fancy rims the next, etc. It won't take too long until you realize that you'd rather have the food or live in a nicer apartment. If you don't, your kids will. Living beyond your means is only attractive when it looks like the only option. Give people a chance to improve their condition, and they will.
 
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