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(Wired)   Warcraft guild leaders are now being headhunted for management positions. YA RLY   (wired.com) divider line
    More: Weird  
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23808 clicks; posted to Main » and Fandom » on 23 Mar 2006 at 4:27 PM (17 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2006-03-23 12:57:51 PM  
I guess that kind of makes sense, but then on the other hand how many employers are going to look at something like that and think their candidate is going to call in "sick" frequently because he was up until 4am playing games.
 
2006-03-23 1:02:00 PM  
"Hi, you've reached the Executive Mailbox of LEEEROOOYYY JENNKIIINNNSS!!"

/obvious
 
2006-03-23 1:07:57 PM  
LOL I hope not. I can barely handle the drama of 70 gamers as it is.
 
2006-03-23 1:07:57 PM  
Y'know, you go through college, university, you spend all your spare time researching and learning... You spend constant hours pouring over your resume, work history and education and JACKASS gets the job because he plays WOW?

"The savviest employers will get the message."

Does 'savviest' mean idiotic?
 
2006-03-23 1:08:41 PM  
elchip: The most overpowered class and one of the most overpowered races

Is it really?

/off to start a tauren shaman
 
2006-03-23 1:08:44 PM  
This reminds me of how my days playing Roller Coaster Tycoon paid off, but that's another story.

My Leisure Suit Larry career was far more interesting.
 
2006-03-23 1:09:57 PM  
meshman: You spend constant hours pouring over your resume, work history and education and JACKASS gets the job because he plays WOW

If there's anything my years have taught me, it's that God has a hideously ironic (and cruel) sense of humor.
 
2006-03-23 1:23:51 PM  
Hey Cranberry! GET A JOB, HIPPIE!
 
2006-03-23 1:31:11 PM  
...That is, in the event that they're actually going to apply for those jobs, which would take away from their precious leveling time.
 
2006-03-23 2:00:57 PM  
I've been a guild leader in WoW. I've also held assorted real life positions of responsibility. The article has a good point. You need to bring 50 people of all ages and personalities together to perform complex tasks, without any of the typical forms of reimbursement. You can't force people to be there, and you can't really pay them in any way that has an impact in their real lives.

In general, I've noticed that the guild leaders in WoW have to be much more saavy than your 'real life' management. Most of the latter tend to exploit the power they hold over their employees...they know that they can get you fired, affect your pay, make sure you get all the shiat jobs.

In the videogame, you have to be more persuasive. Start bossing around a 15 year old whose never had a real job, and he'll just up and quit. Patronize a 40 year old who makes $100k/yr, and he'll quit. It's a much more individual-based form of management.

That said, I think we're a good solid decade from people sticking 'WoW Guild Leader - led my guild to a server first kill of Ragnaros!' on their resume.
 
2006-03-23 2:16:43 PM  
Hey whatever makes me feel less of like complete degenerate works for me.

/unlikely
 
2006-03-23 2:47:41 PM  
It's farked, can someone repost it here?
 
2006-03-23 2:49:07 PM  
So what kind of job would my 19th level warrior in Maple Story net me?
 
2006-03-23 2:51:18 PM  
spasepeepoles: It's farked, can someone repost it here?

You Play World of Warcraft? You're Hired!
Why multiplayer games may be the best kind of job training.
By John Seely Brown and Douglas Thomas

In late 2004, Stephen Gillett was in the running for a choice job at Yahoo! - a senior management position in engineering. He was a strong contender. Gillett had been responsible for CNET's backend, and he had helped launch a number of successful startups. But he had an additional qualification his prospective employer wasn't aware of, one that gave him a decisive edge: He was one of the top guild masters in the online role-playing game World of Warcraft.

Gaming tends to be regarded as a harmless diversion at best, a vile corruptor of youth at worst. But the usual critiques fail to recognize its potential for experiential learning. Unlike education acquired through textbooks, lectures, and classroom instruction, what takes place in massively multiplayer online games is what we call accidental learning. It's learning to be - a natural byproduct of adjusting to a new culture - as opposed to learning about. Where traditional learning is based on the execution of carefully graded challenges, accidental learning relies on failure. Virtual environments are safe platforms for trial and error. The chance of failure is high, but the cost is low and the lessons learned are immediate.

Simulation games have proven excellent tools for training people in manual skills; for example, X-Plane, a flight simulator that runs on home computers, has been certified by the Federal Aviation Administration. But accidental learning transcends intentional training. When role-playing gamers team up to undertake a quest, they often need to attempt particularly difficult challenges repeatedly until they find a blend of skills, talents, and actions that allows them to succeed. This process brings about a profound shift in how they perceive and react to the world around them. They become more flexible in their thinking and more sensitive to social cues. The fact that they don't think of gameplay as training is crucial. Once the experience is explicitly educational, it becomes about developing compartmentalized skills and loses its power to permeate the player's behavior patterns and worldview.

In this way, the process of becoming an effective World of Warcraft guild master amounts to a total-immersion course in leadership. A guild is a collection of players who come together to share knowledge, resources, and manpower. To run a large one, a guild master must be adept at many skills: attracting, evaluating, and recruiting new members; creating apprenticeship programs; orchestrating group strategy; and adjudicating disputes. Guilds routinely splinter over petty squabbles and other basic failures of management; the master must resolve them without losing valuable members, who can easily quit and join a rival guild. Never mind the virtual surroundings; these conditions provide real-world training a manager can apply directly in the workplace.

And that's exactly what Gillett is doing. He accepted Yahoo!'s offer and now works there as senior director of engineering operations. "I used to worry about not having what I needed to get a job done," he says. "Now I think of it like a quest; by being willing to improvise, I can usually find the people and resources I need to accomplish the task." His story - translating experience in the virtual world into success in the real one - is bound to become more common as the gaming audience explodes and gameplay becomes more sophisticated. The day may not be far off when companies receive rsums that include a line reading "level 60 tauren shaman in World of Warcraft."

The savviest employers will get the message.
John Seely Brown (jsb[nospam-﹫-backwards]n­wor­b­yl­ees­nhoj*c­om) is director emeritus of Xerox PARC and a visiting scholar at USC. Douglas Thomas (doug­la­s­t[nospam-﹫-backwards]cs­u*e­d­u) teaches at USC's Annenberg School for Communication and edits Games & Culture: A Journal of Interactive Media.
 
2006-03-23 3:28:25 PM  
Um... aren't they forgetting something kind of important?

Just because you're a charasmatic personality on the internet doesn't mean you aren't still a fat, ugly, 40-year-old naked guy living in your mom's basement covered in cheetos.

Really, are business going to want to hire a middle aged guy who gets his kicks playing with 12 year olds all day and probably stutters and wets himself whenever an attractive woman makes eye contact with him?

I'm betting this hiring tactic will be short lived.
 
2006-03-23 4:08:56 PM  
Um... aren't they forgetting something kind of important?

Just because you're a charasmatic personality on the internet doesn't mean you aren't still a fat, ugly, 40-year-old naked guy living in your mom's basement covered in cheetos.

Really, are business going to want to hire a middle aged guy who gets his kicks playing with 12 year olds all day and probably stutters and wets himself whenever an attractive woman makes eye contact with him?

I'm betting this hiring tactic will be short lived
************
You know what? I'm in the military. My unit is a small group of hand picked NCOs and officers with some very bright people. We're fairly fit, have good personalities, and at least half of us are gamers. I'm not. Most of them are level 50-60 in multiple games with multiple charecters. I'd have to say your rant was a fairly hateful and inaccurate description.
/hates video games
 
2006-03-23 4:29:59 PM  
You have to have excellent management skills to keep a couple dozen gamers focused on a single goal.
 
2006-03-23 4:32:24 PM  
Your boss might be a WoW player if he ends meetings with "Alright, let's do this"

/ obvious 2
 
2006-03-23 4:33:13 PM  
Highroller48 - I LOL'D
 
2006-03-23 4:33:15 PM  
Maybe a hateful description, but I think the idea holds. Just because someone can pull it all together while sitting at a computer screen doesn't mean he'll be able to do the same when he actually has to do that with people he has to actually meet in person.

That sexy 18 year old blonde model you've been talking to in the chat rooms? Yep, his name is Bob, he's 43, and he works in payroll.
 
2006-03-23 4:33:41 PM  
Most of them are all already managers! At Gamestop...half of the managers at accounts I service are into that game...
 
2006-03-23 4:33:54 PM  
/off topic

I work with Leroy Jenkins


//not kidding
 
2006-03-23 4:34:02 PM  
I have a nasty habit of going "outside" to play such interesting games as "let's all kayak with BEER!!", or "Fishing" tm ....it's great fun.
/farking nerds.
 
2006-03-23 4:34:04 PM  
As long as they dont hire the 'cloud song' guy I'm ok with this.
 
2006-03-23 4:34:23 PM  
Of course, if he can just stay in his basement and teleconference to the team, I guess he'd be a farkin' whiz
 
2006-03-23 4:34:38 PM  
this is the stupidest thing i have ever heard.
 
2006-03-23 4:35:02 PM  
Managers have hectic schedules. Unless this guy was prepared to give up WoW, I don't see how he could be effective at his job.

Unless he had a Bawls IV and never slept.
 
2006-03-23 4:35:03 PM  
lets see... n00bs everywhere, lots of waiting in queues, high lag times, level grinding, griefers, trolls...

WoW really isn't that much different than the office workplace...
 
2006-03-23 4:35:23 PM  
Sweet! A non-discussion about a non-story.
 
2006-03-23 4:35:26 PM  
chuggernaught: You have to have excellent management skills to keep a couple dozen gamers focused on a single goal.

I don't doubt what you are saying, however I certainly would not hire someone just because of their achievements on WoW. I would look to see how those same skills have manifested themselves in actual occupational responsibilities.
 
2006-03-23 4:35:30 PM  
What about guild webmasters?

http://www.heroesofsalvy.com

Go team.
 
2006-03-23 4:35:31 PM  
Laugh all you want, like it or not, it's a virtual world, and virtual behaviors are indicators of real behaviors.
 
2006-03-23 4:35:58 PM  
"Level 60 Cleric LFW.. Resume includes MBA degree and 5 years research experience.."
 
2006-03-23 4:36:22 PM  
I PWN UR COMPANY ASSETS!111
 
2006-03-23 4:36:35 PM  
Laugh all you want, like it or not, it's a virtual world, and virtual behaviors are indicators of real behaviors

It's thinking like that which gets bystanders hurt when some yahoo thinks he can handle a broadsword
 
2006-03-23 4:36:44 PM  
yes.... 40 man Onyxia raids require great leadership skills

(listen till the end)
 
2006-03-23 4:37:15 PM  
You shouldn't underestimate the skill required to keep a large guild together. Nor the ability to command them and adjust mid-battle.

Good skills whether doing it from behind a keyboard or not.
 
2006-03-23 4:37:45 PM  
And you'd have to be a cynic to think that games like Simcity or Civilization don't excercise skills in organization and resource management.
 
2006-03-23 4:37:52 PM  
Everyone's Collective Imaginary Friend: Just because you're a charasmatic personality on the internet doesn't mean you aren't still a fat, ugly, 40-year-old naked guy living in your mom's basement covered in cheetos.

[image from z.about.com too old to be available]

"Worst. Stereotype. EVAR."
 
2006-03-23 4:38:19 PM  
Sorry to burst your bubble Everyone's Collective Imaginary Friend, but I'm a 28 year old IT Director with a wife and daughter that has a 60 pally and a 60 mage. I own my own house and last I checked didn't stutter. Any other sweeping generalizations?
 
2006-03-23 4:38:28 PM  
...If virtual reality really mirrors actual reality that much, I should be running for office.

/lobbied and won a political post in a text MUD
//Ate off it, plotwise, for about three years
///didn't get a whole lot of sleep in those days
 
2006-03-23 4:38:29 PM  
Zionist_Entity: virtual behaviors are indicators of real behaviors.

Maybe. Just because you can manage a group of gamers in a virtual setting still does not mean you have the skills to manage a group of people face-to-face. There are social skills involved for motivation when working with people in person that you do not have to have when online or over the phone.
 
2006-03-23 4:38:41 PM  
"...and, while Q4 returns came in two cents per share beneath analyst projections and we're expecting a four percent increase in first half outlays due to ongoing contract negotiations, at least we got chicken. Thank you."
 
2006-03-23 4:38:41 PM  
spazzhappy: yes.... 40 man Onyxia raids require great leadership skills

(listen till the end)


Thanks. A much better WoW reference than that idiotic Leeroy Jenkins clip.
 
2006-03-23 4:38:52 PM  
man i ran a guild for awhile... but my job took too much time away and i couldn't babysit everybody... article is right tho, it's pretty hard to get a guild big and thriving... most are either big but impersonal or personal, cozy, and made of <40 ppl with maybe 1 60 on there
 
2006-03-23 4:39:07 PM  
IXI Jim IXI,
"Laugh all you want, like it or not, it's a virtual world, and virtual behaviors are indicators of real behaviors"

Where exactly did I say this was always a good thing?
 
2006-03-23 4:39:14 PM  
Guess this means most of our guildmaster jobs will be outsourced to India soon
 
2006-03-23 4:39:18 PM  
If someone posts the "ORLY" owl on the fark forums, Mr. Kyanka will be right about the future of Fark.com
 
2006-03-23 4:39:50 PM  
scseth

i agree with you completely. i supervise a lot of people that are into WoW. most are relatively unmotivated in the workplace, show up late often, and tend to sit around babbling about last night's raid, or how they wtfpwned some n00b they caught running around a contested zone, etc.
 
2006-03-23 4:40:11 PM  
Great. That's what the world needs - more middle managers with nothing better to do than talk about WoW all day.
 
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