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(Some Monkey)   15 answers to creationist nonsense   (sciam.com) divider line
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58417 clicks; posted to Main » and Fandom » on 12 Mar 2006 at 4:43 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2006-03-11 9:34:05 PM  
The William Shatner ad in the middle of the page is really funny without sound.
 
2006-03-11 9:39:37 PM  
Nice article, but the people who need to read it...won't.
 
2006-03-11 9:48:37 PM  
But, but, there's no quotes from the bible in that article!!! How can you believe anything that isn't the infallable word of god?!?!

/always types god in lower-case
 
2006-03-11 9:53:39 PM  
Nice article, but the people who need to read it...won't understand it.


.
 
2006-03-11 9:55:43 PM  
I agree, El Morro. I feel the same way about the Bible.
 
2006-03-11 10:12:47 PM  
See, Lilmama, there are a whole bunch of happy, satisfied people out there who never read the third-generation mistranslated book you're talking about, and they also aren't trying to pretend science is a false god.
 
2006-03-12 12:06:59 AM  
July 2002 issue

Hello?
 
2006-03-12 12:29:51 AM  
Juansmith: July 2002 issue

Hello?


It's not like Creationism has had any new arguements that they've come up with...in...ever.

"God did it. Proof? The bible says God did it. I R TEH WIN!!!"
 
2006-03-12 4:47:42 AM  
too many words
 
2006-03-12 4:49:10 AM  
El Morro:

Nice article, but the people who need to read it...won't can't.
 
2006-03-12 4:49:29 AM  
[image from img78.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
2006-03-12 4:50:36 AM  
I think I'm gonna put together a poster of that entire article (in fairly small print I'm guessing) and post it in my office... At school...

(not in the US though, so nobody will care)

N.
 
2006-03-12 4:50:57 AM  
It's not like Creationism has had any new arguements that they've come up with...in...ever.

"God did it. Proof? The bible says God did it. I R TEH WIN!!!"


And you've obviously never read anything put out by a Christian scientist.

Sadly the people who need to read their publications... won't.
 
2006-03-12 4:53:13 AM  
In Genesis 3:16 god punishes all women, innocent or not, with painful childbirth and subjugation to men.

In Genesis 7:4 god has a bad day at the office, thus decides to drown innocent babies, and animals both wild and domestic.

In Exodus 4:11 god boasts about making people handicapped.

In Exodus 4:23 god resorts to hostage taking and terrorism in order to get his own way. He does this via threatening a baby. Soon, he is slaughtering little babies all across Egypt.

In Exodus 9:19-20 god slaughters Egyptian cattle. Sometimes, cow tipping just isn't enough.

In Exodus 9:29-30 god kills off innocent babies, and whatever cows he missed earlier.

In Exodus 20:17 god tells us not to free another's slaves. Abolitionists beware!!

In Exodus 32:27-28 god tells the sons to slaughter their neighbors: 3,000 men are slain.

In Leviticus 19:20-22 god demands that raping a slave woman is punishable by scourging the victim. The rapist is to be forgiven.

In Leviticus 25:44-46 god tells his followers to make slaves of their neighbors.

In Leviticus 27:3-7 god helpfully provides a pricing guide. According to this guide, as a male between the ages of 20 and 60 years (the most expensive category), I am worth approximately US$25. How much are you worth to god?

In Numbers 14:18 god's idea of justice is explained: little children are to be punished for their great-great grandparents transgressions.

In Numbers 31:1-54 god tells his followers to commit genocide, "sparing" only the virgin girls, who are to be raped. Even god gets some "unspared" virgins.

In Numbers 33:4 god kills of another batch of Egyptian babies. Abortion is a sin because...?

In Deuteronomy 2:33-36 god demands genocide again. No mention of virgin girls this time, unless these children are raped to death...

In Deuteronomy 7:2 god demands more genocide from his followers.

In Deuteronomy 13:12-16 god demands new and improved genocide, now including cattle. Oh, wait, we've had that before. Damn cows.

In Deuteronomy 32:21-26 god glories in being a psychotic terrorist. Don't miss the atrocities of Deuteronomy 28, either!

In Joshua 6:18-19 the omnipotent creator is short of cash, again.

In Joshua 8:22-26 god demands more genocide, plus some more slavery as detailed in Joshua 9:21-27, but this time, in Joshua 10:10-11, we get slaughter and a chase scene!! Go, god!!
In Joshua 10:28-32 god demands still more genocide.

In Joshua 11:6-17 god still demands more genocide. There are more exceptions to "Thou shalt not kill" than there are to a rich man's tax code.

In Judges 1:2-7. god's takes a break from genocide, has his followers kill "only" 10,000 people, but at least they get to torture and mutilate somebody by cutting off both thumbs and big toes!

In Judges 1:12-13 Caleb offers his daughter as prize to anyone who conquers the City of Debir. The girl's cousin wins the contest, thus the prize.

In Judges 1:17-19 god gets back to good, ol' regular genocide. Killing innocent people is serious work!!

In Judges 2:14 god has a temper-tantrum and sells Israel into slavery.

In Judges 3:28-29 & 4:15-16 god reverts to, you guessed it, genocide.

In Judges 5:30 god hands out a damsel or two to each of his rapist soldiers. Booty Call!!

In Judges 10:17 god gets angry at Israel, again, and sells them into slavery, again.

In Judges 12:6 god slays 42,000 innocent people because someone with a speech impediment mispronounces the word "shibboleth". I'll bet you thought the word "lisp" was cruel jest.

In Judges 15:4-8 a "righteous" Samson captures 300 foxes, ties their tails together, and sets them on fire. Abusing animals is almost as righteous as killing babies, apparently.

In Judges 19:22-30, after taking in a traveling Levite, the host offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine to a mob of perverts (who want to have sex with his guest). The mob refuses the daughter, but accepts the concubine and they "abuse her all night." The next morning she crawls back to the doorstep and dies. The Levite mounts her dead body on an ass and takes her home. Then he chops her body up into twelve pieces and sends them to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

In Judges 21:7-23 in order to find wives for the Benjamites, who were unwilling to use their own daughters, the other tribes attacked and killed all occupants of a city except for the young virgins. These virgins were then given to the Benjamites as "wives".

In 1 Samuel 2:10 if god doesn't like you he will send a thunderstorm to break your body into little pieces. In 1 Samuel 2:31-34, if god really doesn't like you, he will cut off your arm, consume your eyes, grieve your heart, and slay your sons and grandfathers. In 1 Samuel 5:6, 9, and 12 we learn that if god really, really doesn't like you, he will give you hemorrhoids in your "secret parts".

In 1 Samuel 5:11 god wipes out another city.

In 1 Samuel 15:2-3 god demands more genocide, this time as punishment for some no doubt petty transgression committed hundreds of years previously by the forefathers of these innocent people.

In 1 Samuel 15:7-34 god goads Saul into torturing and slaying his prisoner, a King.

In Matthew 5:17 Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.

In Matthew 8:21 Jesus shows no compassion for the bereaved, saying to a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead."

In Matthew 8:32 Jesus abuses animals by sending some devils into a herd of pigs, causing the pigs to run off a cliff and drown in the sea below. The acorn does not fall far from the tree. Was there a local shortage of Egyptian cows? Moo!

In Matthew 10:15 Jesus becomes a terrorist, and threatens genocide against cities.

In Matthew 10:28 Jesus tries to scare people by telling them that his dad can beat up their dad.

In Matthew 11:20-24 Jesus threatens more cities.

In Matthew 12:47-49 "Mister Family Values" himself (Jesus) is disrespectful to his mother and rude to his brothers.

In Matthew 13:41-42 Jesus threatens to send his angels against any who offend him, and send them straight to hell. Love, peace, tolerance, and forgiveness are beneath him, apparently.

In Matthew 15:4-7 Jesus commits hypocrisy by demanding all others to honor their parents. "Sorry about being rude back in Matthew 12, Mom."

In Matthew 18:8-9 Jesus advocates self-mutilation, but for others, not him. He's perfect, thank you.

In Matthew 18:25 Jesus advocates slavery.

In Matthew 25:29 Jesus proposes a system of economy where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In Mark 5:12-13 Jesus spooks 2,000 pigs, causing them to jump of a cliff and drown in the sea. Is this evidence of more animal abuse, or is the story from Matthew 8:32 getting better with each telling?

In Mark 6:11 Jesus resorts to threatening cities again. Die, innocent babies, Die!!

In Mark 7:9-13 Jesus criticizes people for not killing their children, as they should have, according to Old Testament law. The same law Jesus broke when he was disrespectful to his Mother in Matthew 12:47-49.

In Mark 10:29-30 Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and children.

In Mark 11:13-14 Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing fruit, even though it was out of season. Apparently, "Mister Perfect" wasn't much of an agronomist, or ethicist.

In Luke 8:20-21 Jesus is disrespectful to his mother and rude to his brothers, again. Or still?

In Luke 8:27-37 Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. This story does get better with each telling!!

In Luke 10:10-15 Jesus terrorizes entire cities, claiming they will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. No doubt these people preferred their pigs.

In Luke 12:46-47 Jesus likens god to a sadistic, diabolical slave-owner, who will beat you "with many stripes".

In Luke 14:26 Jesus decides that it is not enough for men to abandon their families; they must actively hate them, too. Where is the love??

In Luke 16:17 Jesus declares that all the vicious, irrational laws of the Old Testament are binding forever.

In Luke 17:27 Jesus talks about Noah, neatly demonstrating his own ignorance of science, history, and justice.

In John 2:4 Jesus is, again, rude to his mother. She seemed so nice, too.

In John 5:14 Jesus stupidly announces that god handicaps people as just punishment for their sins.
In John 7:8-10 Jesus lies to his family about attending a feast.

In Acts 5:1-10 Peter, with god's help, kills a man who sold his possessions, but did not fork over all of the earnings. Why is the omnipotent creator always short of cash?

In Acts 13:48 we learn that only pre-ordained people would be allowed in heaven. So much for freewill...
 
2006-03-12 4:54:00 AM  
"The NAS defines a fact as "an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as 'true.'"

He did what???

[image from i19.photobucket.com too old to be available]
 
2006-03-12 4:54:09 AM  
It's interesting that Biblical Literalism, especially with regard to Genesis has only been a very recent development in Christianity. Most Christians tended to believe that Genesis and a lot of the stories of the Old Testament were allegorical in nature, and there is much to support this.

I find it interesting as well that there are seven historical periods of biological development and seven days in Genesis.

Also of note: Ancient Hebrew had no word for "day" and the word in the original scriptures meant, simply, "a period of time". It could be a 24-hour day, or a two billion year period. Then, let's also consider that God might have a slighly different perception of time than Man. I think there's a biblical passage to that effect, something like a lifetime to a man is but a blink of an eye to God or something. Not sure.

Anyway, there's no reason why Evolution and Belief in God can't go together.

/Is an Atheist anyway.
//Believe or don't. As long as you don't make me have to believe what you believe
///Science is NOT A RELIGION
 
2006-03-12 4:54:51 AM  
Hah, one of my fav SciAm articles, read it when it was printe in the magazine.
 
2006-03-12 5:00:09 AM  
[image from gregfiering.com too old to be available]
 
2006-03-12 5:01:41 AM  
i think i'm in the minority here in that i believe in god, but i also believe in evolution. that the two co-exist. to sum it up best, god spit in a puddle and here we are. and why use the bible to prove your point when you can find a dozen other parts in it to disprove it.

/why do you think there are so many different religions
//or idiots for that matter
///all idiots are idiots, but there are sub-categories :)
 
2006-03-12 5:02:16 AM  
cue bevets cut'n'paste.. again
 
2006-03-12 5:03:02 AM  
Stealthdozer: Frikken sweet, thanks! Gonna store that one for future use on bible thumpers.

N.
 
2006-03-12 5:03:45 AM  
[image from public.asu.edu too old to be available]
 
2006-03-12 5:03:47 AM  
this can only come out bad. This thread I mean.
 
2006-03-12 5:04:05 AM  
////i'm in the 'I think people pay attention to me' sub-category :P
 
2006-03-12 5:04:37 AM  
[image from images.amazon.com too old to be available]
 
2006-03-12 5:04:56 AM  
sokpupet

Actually, you aren't in that much of a minority.. 35% or so in the US.
I, personally, don't believe in a god, but I can respect the position of someone who accepts both evolution and religion. The two certainly are NOT incompatible.
 
2006-03-12 5:05:07 AM  
I joined Fark.com for the polite, enlightened, and intellectual discussion threads.

Is this one of them ?
 
2006-03-12 5:05:27 AM  
You must trust the grey bearded man in the sky or else GODDAMIT!!
 
2006-03-12 5:05:42 AM  
joe90 cue bevets cut'n'paste.. again

[image from img88.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
2006-03-12 5:05:53 AM  
Creationists are stupid. You could supply 50 answers, 150 answers, an entire website refuting in detail their lies, many websites refuting in detail their lies.


They'd still be as stupid. They'd still deny every single point even if you rubbed their noses in the evidence. They'd still spout the same disproven lies for their god. Isn't lying a sin? Not to these idiots. Creationism is hardcoded in their brains and trivialities like evidence must be brushed to the side. In the absence of any evidence to support their position, the only recourse is lies.


The best thing to do is not confront these nitwits but innoculate others against similar stupidity. School boards should be putting critical thinking into their curriculums, scientists should become more accessible and newspapers and other media outlets should educated to stop confusing neutrality / balance with presenting both side of the argument equally.

 
2006-03-12 5:09:32 AM  
information_entropy I joined Fark.com for the polite, enlightened, and intellectual discussion threads.

Not even MetaFilter has those.
 
2006-03-12 5:10:50 AM  
information_entropy: I joined Fark.com for the polite, enlightened, and intellectual discussion threads.

Then you chose.... Poorly :P

N.
 
2006-03-12 5:12:28 AM  
Whilst I don't approve of militant creationism this only makes you guys look a little more pathetic and desparate than yesterday.
 
2006-03-12 5:13:20 AM  
"The deeper error is that this objection is tantamount to asking, 'If children descended from adults, why are there still adults?' "

So...when a monkey grows up, he becomes human?
 
2006-03-12 5:17:55 AM  
Stealthdozer:

Dude, you have way to much time on your hands. You should seriously turn off your computer and go outside once in a while. Maybe discuss your points with actual Christians face-to-face. Are you expecting props for that or something?

This article appears to be more like "15 Answers To The ID Movement," but hey, whatever gets your headline on Fark. There's nothing there that tries to disprove Christianity.

Interesting point though: on "7. Evolution cannot explain the existence of life", SA's first counter-scenario is biological residue from a meteor strike. WTF? They don't really offer any explanation beyond alien origin, saying that macro and micro evolution theory will "take care of it anyway." Sounds somewhat dodgy.
 
2006-03-12 5:17:59 AM  
"i think i'm in the minority here in that i believe in god, but i also believe in evolution"

I'm with this. I'm convinced by the cosmological argument. I don't consider it science though because it's not observable or verifiable.
 
2006-03-12 5:18:37 AM  
flopsy,
i see your cutsey little illustration, and see you...THIS!

God hates freaks. - Noah

/that doesn't sound like god
//:in a mocking tone: that doesn't sound leb glah
///well then why did you let the pixie fairies on board?
////I did!? :grabs mallet:
 
2006-03-12 5:18:37 AM  
Nogami:

Happy to be here, proud to serve.
 
2006-03-12 5:21:01 AM  
Beating Bevets to the punch....

"The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth, mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments...Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, and brings in the symbol of the resurrection. Let us therefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who copies certain things of those that be Divine." Tertullian, late 2nd century CE, commenting on the many similarities between Mithraism and Christianity.

"...are our..[Pagan beliefs] to be accounted myths and theirs [the Christians'] believed? What reasons do the Christians give for the distinctiveness of their beliefs? In truth, there is nothing at all unusual about what the Christians believe..." Celsus, late 2nd century CE, commenting on the similarities between Pagan and Christian beliefs.

"He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." An inscription to Mithras which parallels John 6:53-54

"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" Pope Leo X.

"Jesus is a mythical figure in the tradition of pagan mythology and almost nothing in all of ancient literature would lead one to believe otherwise. Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it." C. Dennis McKinsey

"There is not a conception associated with Christ that is not common to some or all of the Savior cults of antiquity." J.M. Robertson



/Just countering Bevets "arguments" in a way he'll understand.
 
2006-03-12 5:21:25 AM  
The eye, the hand and everything right down to the cellular level, even that which binds matter & energy......it's all just too complex. Scientists want to prove away God, but the truly rational and honest mind will always know better.

This article is the same old stuff. No new arguments.
 
2006-03-12 5:21:37 AM  
[image from i39.photobucket.com too old to be available]
 
2006-03-12 5:22:49 AM  
And... Nogami

"I'm going to use this for future reference on bible thumpers."

WTF? Who talks like that? Nerd.

If I had time, I could answer probably most of the eleventy-billion "points" made by shadowdozer, but, seriously... who has that kind of time? On the internet? Not likely. If you're looking to actually discuss stuff and not engage in masturbatory point-by-point "debate," then you're looking in the wrong places.
 
2006-03-12 5:24:13 AM  
 
2006-03-12 5:24:48 AM  
d0ug:

Ad hominem.

NEXT!!
 
2006-03-12 5:25:09 AM  
Stealthdozer

I'm impressed that you took the time to be as pathetic as the worst creationist. Do you get out much?

Seriously - the more I see of this on Fark the more I see a collection of losers with an axe to grind picking on the easiest target around. It seems to me that, from an objective viewpoint that the ignorance of creationists is matched only by your obnoxious need to be right - interestingly Richard Dawkins displays this trait. It seems that a seemingly rational perspective deprives one of the ability to be polite and to bear with those who commit the heinous crime of disagreeing with you.

You are not changing anything by doing this and if anything the creationist movement is gaining strength and momentum because you are so dismissive and ignorant towards them. Yes, yes, I'm going to get flamed in to oblivion for this I know but it will only serve to prove my point. I'm not trolling or taking sides or saying that anyone is right or wrong but I can see that it is rather obvious that you're all as bad as one another. Accepting Darwin's theories hasn't made any of you a decent addition to the gene pool - how ironic.
 
2006-03-12 5:26:54 AM  
meekychuppet

Ad hominem.

Next!!
 
2006-03-12 5:28:31 AM  
ASilentHarmony:
And you've obviously never read anything put out by a Christian scientist.

I have read lots of stuff by scientists who are also Christians. They tend to accept evolutionary theory.

I have also read articles by Creationist "scientists". They tend to lack scientific methods and evidence. Or make it up.
 
daz
2006-03-12 5:29:16 AM  
Hrm,

I read through most of them and several are not very convincing. 1.) It's a theory, but it's a REALLY REALLY good one and we accept it as "truth" because we're REALLY REALLY sure... but we can't officially prove it. But remember, we're REALLY REALLY sure!

Well, science has had a sordid past with "REALLY REALLY sure", so pardon me if I don't base my understanding of the nature of the universe on some atheistic denier's "REALLY REALLY sure".

Frankly, the arguments he uses as strawmen are, for the most part, more compelling than his, ultimately, excuse-making to dismiss them.

And as for those quoting the Bible above, apparently the whole thing about 'context' never really caught on inside your head, huh?

Case in point: "let the dead bury the dead"

It's ironic that you use that quote since the point Christ was trying to make is that people will find any excuse (and make them up if they have to -- which is most of the time) not to believe in God.

So here we have someone, making up excuses for not believing, by quoting the very verse in which Christ explains that people will make up excuses! Ha! Comedy gold.

But why do I waste my time. "Pearls before swine" and all that.
 
2006-03-12 5:29:28 AM  
SA's first counter-scenario is biological residue from a meteor strike. WTF? They don't really offer any explanation beyond alien origin, saying that macro and micro evolution theory will "take care of it anyway." Sounds somewhat dodgy.

Does it matter? Evolution is not meant to explain the origins of life, so that belongs in another discussion/argument.
 
2006-03-12 5:30:41 AM  
Stealthdozer

meekychuppet

Ad hominem.

Next!!


Argument just weakened. Any more?
 
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