Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Blogger)   Boston Globe, 1999: "Christians need to stop whining about taxpayer dollars paying to cover the Virgin Mary with elephant crap--it's free speech." 2006: "We need to be sensitive to Muslims offended by political cartoons"   (volokh.com) divider line
432
    More: Stupid  
•       •       •

9841 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 06 Feb 2006 at 5:00 PM (17 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



432 Comments     (+0 »)


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Newest | Show all

 
kronicfeld
2006-02-06 4:55:38 PM  
My comment:

I think one can find a difference in the posture of the parties. In the latter articles, the Globe is commenting on official acts of government being taken against artistic expression. In that case, the focus is on the artists' rights vis-a-vis the government. In the former article, the Globe is commenting on the "outrage" of private parties, not government action. In that case, there's not really an issue of the artists' rights, and the controversy lends itself more to discussion, admonition, condemnation, etc of the artist's discretion.

Also worth reading:

Aren't we all making a mountain out of a molehill here? It seems to me that the Globe's editorials can be perfectly reconciled (although given the changing make-up of editorial boards, they needn't be consistent over time).

The latest editorial says, in essence, "Just because its legal to say something, it doesn't mean you should." That's a pretty uncontroversial position. We all should exercise restraint and good taste. The Globe doesn't talk about the importance of the Danish government allowing the Danish paper to publish cartoons, becuase the Danish government never butted in (or maybe I missed that part, in which case this whole post is misguided).

In the cases of the "piss Christ" and the Virgin Mary with feces, on the other hand, government intervention in speech was the issue. The Globe may have felt that both pieces were tasteless and might have taken the time to remind the artists that just because they could portray what they wanted to, it didn't mean they should. But, in light of government censroship efforts, the Globe likely felt it was much more important to protect the right of the artists to portray whatever they wanted than it was to remind them that what they were doing was tasteless. Today, with the Danish issue, government censorship as a concern is absent, and thus it seems like a good idea to point out that some "art" can be tasteless and the Danish newspaper might want to exercise a little discretion in deciding what to publish, even though it CAN publish whatever it wants.

The different op-eds just highlight different, but all legitimate, points. Would Eugene prefer the Globe write about the pitfalls of Danish repression of free press even where no efforts to repress occurred?
 
21-7-b
2006-02-06 4:55:47 PM  
are we trying to undermine any radical christian governments?
 
21-7-b
2006-02-06 4:59:17 PM  
great post, kronicfeld
 
RobbieFal
2006-02-06 5:00:32 PM  
How about we put the Muslims who are offended in a different category than the morons who are burning down embassies?

Oh yeah, are there any reports of people looking Tehran (while everybody else is distracted by the latest embassy fire)?
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2006-02-06 5:01:55 PM  
As usual, these yahoos think "Make all the nasty artwork you want; just don't expect the taxpayers to pay for it" is the same thing as the government saying "You may not make your nasty artwork at all."

Pulling funding is not the same as censorship. If you enjoy the Virgin Mary covered with crap or crucifixes dunked in urine, knock yourself out. But if you expect me to pay for it, grow up.
 
CuttySupreme
2006-02-06 5:03:23 PM  
Double standards are always targeted toward WASPS.
 
moops
2006-02-06 5:03:45 PM  
It's in a blog, and submitter boiled it down in the headline so my tiny brain can understand it. Therefore, I hate muslims and liberals.
 
binnster
2006-02-06 5:04:25 PM  
RobbieFal: Oh yeah, are there any reports of people looking Tehran (while everybody else is distracted by the latest embassy fire)?


I caught my workmate looking a bit Tehran the other day, but I imposed sanctions on him and everything turned out OK.
 
Code_Archeologist
2006-02-06 5:05:58 PM  
The CraneMeister Would you prefer that all NEA funded artists create works in the style of Social Realism? I hear that it is a real successful stance in some countries.

/may be to obscure
 
absolutelychecken
2006-02-06 5:06:14 PM  
Oh you poor, brave Christians. How ever do you withstand such withering persecution?
 
we_hates
2006-02-06 5:06:26 PM  
It must be tough work trying to nail yourself to a cross all the time. Good luck with that, though.
 
RobbieFal
2006-02-06 5:06:30 PM  
looting

looking

I could follow the example of the Saudis after the most recent Haij stampede, but instead, I will not inspire a massive "jihad" to cover up my typo.
 
inglixthemad
2006-02-06 5:06:32 PM  
Personally, easily offended people of any religious type can fark off.
 
Qermaq
2006-02-06 5:06:44 PM  
Again, children, it's not about context. It's the mere depiction of Mohammed that is objectionable.
 
seventypercent [TotalFark]
2006-02-06 5:07:00 PM  
2006-02-06 05:05:09 PM binnster [TotalFark]

About seventy percent.

Well played!
 
nerfball
2006-02-06 5:07:08 PM  
um...i guess it doesn't matter that when people in the west take offense we don't demand the murder of those with whom we have our differences.

it isn't the outrage that people find troublesome, its that the muslims are resorting to violence, murder and calls for additional violence that are troublesome.

protests are fine, violence is not.
 
TellarHK
2006-02-06 5:07:30 PM  
Of course, the big thing is that you don't see Christian suicide bombers. If we saw those, people might be a bit twitchier about things like the Virgin Mary.

\of course, Christians are welcome to suicide bomb in the middle east
\\not a Christian
\\\Amused
 
Gunrunnercorp
2006-02-06 5:08:02 PM  
Dear Boston Globe,

Its a freaking cartoon. The Far Side cartoon strip had pictures of God all the time, and Gary Larson never once got death threats or any American Embassys burnt down.

You see what I mean?

signed, Gunrunnercorp
 
Coital Punishment
2006-02-06 5:08:10 PM  
21-7-b: The United States Civil War was not really just about slavery.

Think about it.
 
squidloe
2006-02-06 5:08:11 PM  
binnster,

Seventy percent of the time, it works all the time.
 
El Pachuco
2006-02-06 5:08:17 PM  
Although there are no other common elements at all, since both stories involve religion, they are thus exactly the same issue. Submitter shows the full force of his genius and biting social commentary by equating the two.

/This is getting about as tedious as the "France surrenders" cliche. All these types of headlines are doing is displaying the ignorance and stupidity of the submitters, not those of the Muslims or the French or whoever.
 
GORDON
2006-02-06 5:08:22 PM  
"Oh you poor, brave Christians. How ever do you withstand such withering persecution?"

Ask the peeps who were fed to lions in Rome a couple thousand years ago.
 
Angostura
2006-02-06 5:08:23 PM  
Not necessarily hypocrisy. Given that the Globe will have a much larger proportion of Christian than Islamic readers, this might be thought of as an example of the Internet Engineering Task Force's meta-rule: "be conservative in what you generate, liberal in what you accept" in action.

In other words; try not to offend, try not to take offence.

Not a bad philosophy, really.
 
Barnstormer
2006-02-06 5:08:29 PM  
Anyone who insults the Globe will be beheaded!

Be sensitive to our Op-Ed section loyalty, you
blue-collar Herald-toting troglodytes!
 
Buddha04
2006-02-06 5:08:37 PM  
[image from www2.truman.edu too old to be available]
 
BloodyFinger
2006-02-06 5:08:43 PM  
We're obviously just more civilized than muslims....
 
monster87
2006-02-06 5:09:22 PM  
Will people please understand that being offended by the cariacatures doesn't bother me. Peaceful protests and even the boycots don't necesarrily bother me either.

Acting like it's the end of the friggin world, and threatening to kill and maim people... yep, got a problem with that. Setting fire to buildings... yep, I got a problem with that.

Ask me my opinion on the Christians who blow up abortion clinics. It's remarkably similar. Most people that I speak to feel the same way, and this covers most of the demographics represented in America (yeah multicultural Dallas).

Will people please admit that they're making an ass out of their religion at least?
 
BrotherTheodore
2006-02-06 5:09:24 PM  
A number of priest molest kids = The church is nothing but perverts!

Millions of muslims riot and call for death to westerners = it's only a FEW!
 
nerfball
2006-02-06 5:09:55 PM  
Qermaq:

Again, children, it's not about context. It's the mere depiction of Mohammed that is objectionable.

screw them! i am free to depict mohammed in any light i desire. they are simply trying to force their religious law upon the west. that violates the separation of church and state as well as rights to free speech.

if they object, they may protest, but they do not have the right to murder me simply because i don't want their religious law imposed in the united states.
 
DrakeKyrros
2006-02-06 5:10:13 PM  
ok, im' not going to RTFB, just gonna make a random possibly relevant statement.

Why on earth are people going so far out of their way nowadays to make sure that muslims aren't ever offended by anything, but when christians expect the same treatment, they get told that they should go screw themselves?

I have no problem with saying "People should be more sensitive to Islam"

I have a problem with the SAME people saying "People shouldn't have to be sensitive to Christianity"

Why are the people who spend so much time preaching tolerance of EVERYTHING ELSE so hateful to christianity? We're not all Pat Robertson.

/obviously didn't RTFB
//tired of people who hate christians and preach tolerance
 
Snowflake Tubbybottom
2006-02-06 5:10:21 PM  
21-7-b: are we trying to undermine any radical christian governments?


Know of any?
 
Theaetetus
2006-02-06 5:10:28 PM  
Hmmm...

Boston Globe protests a government entity (the Mayor of New York) trying to stifle free speech, evict a museum, etc.

Boston Globe condemns what they view as a bad decision by a private entity (the newspaper editor) to publish inflamatory cartoons. At no point do they suggest the government censor the paper.

I don't see the problem.
 
Code_Archeologist
2006-02-06 5:11:21 PM  
Qermaq
Again, children, it's not about context. It's the mere depiction of Mohammed that is objectionable.

What is amusing is that Christians fought a war with each over wether making images of Jesus were blasphemy or not. Funny how they forget their history so easily.
 
we_hates
2006-02-06 5:11:26 PM  
If I had any artistic talent, I would draw a cartoon to piss off as many religions at once as I possibly could. Maybe have the virgin Mary blowing Mohammed while the dali lami has his finger up Mohammed's ass. I'm not sure how I would work in Buddha and Xenu, but I would find a way.
 
briandogg
2006-02-06 5:11:32 PM  
Editorial opinions within a given newspaper can change depending on who is writing the piece.

For example, this piece which was in the Boston Globe (and linked to yesterday on Fark) about how "We are all Danes now" and how we have to stand up to the radical Muslims protesting.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/05/we _are_all_danes_now/ - link opens a new window for your viewing pleasure.
 
moops
2006-02-06 5:11:33 PM  
Oh you poor, brave Christians. How ever do you withstand such withering persecution?

80+% of the US population and they cry "help! i'm being opressed!". now who's got that excel chart?
 
squidloe
2006-02-06 5:11:38 PM  
nerfball,

You do know that not everyone in the world adheres to the U.S. Constitution, specifically the seperation of church and state? shiat, we barley adhere to it here in the States.
 
Jesda
2006-02-06 5:11:42 PM  
Mohammed wrote Brokeback Mountain!
 
bglove25
2006-02-06 5:11:43 PM  
BrotherTheodore
Ahh, but none of the Muslims advocated molesting Westerners....That would be a little over the line.
 
dericwater
2006-02-06 5:11:56 PM  
I agree with the former (Christians should be quiet about elephant piss on the virgin mary). And I think that stance should apply as well to the muslims with regards to a political cartoon.

To all religious fundies everywhere: STFU and go crawl back in your dark cave.
 
MWeather
2006-02-06 5:12:32 PM  
BrotherTheodore: Millions of muslims riot and call for death to westerners = it's only a FEW!


Millions are rioting? They're being amazingly restrained in the damage they cause then. If millions of any other group rioted there would be more than a few embasies burned.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2006-02-06 5:12:35 PM  
absolutelychecken: Oh you poor, brave Christians. How ever do you withstand such withering persecution?

Ahem. Please notice that Mr. Piss Christ and Ms. Elephant Crap are not only still alive, but have not had their houses burned down. So perhaps I could fix that for ya:

Oh you poor, brave Christians. How ever do you withstand such withering persecution? will you find some other sucker to pay money for your piss and shiat, given that for once it's not an over-the-top criticism, but that you're actually selling piss and shiat to the government?
 
binnster
2006-02-06 5:12:37 PM  
nerfball: um...i guess it doesn't matter that when people in the west take offense we don't demand the murder of those with whom we have our differences.


Except, of course, for the occasions when people in the west do just that.
 
mc6809e
2006-02-06 5:12:45 PM  
"Free speech" doesn't mean free as in beer.
 
FarkinFarker
2006-02-06 5:13:11 PM  
we_hates: If I had any artistic talent, I would draw a cartoon to piss off as many religions at once as I possibly could.

You must add Flying Spaghetti Monster noodly appendage (tentacle) porn into the equation.
 
H31N0US
2006-02-06 5:13:11 PM  
This is like the 8h thread about teh religions so far today.

May I suggest a "FSM" tab to go with the sports, tech...etc, and get all this empty nonsense off the main page?
 
nerfball
2006-02-06 5:13:41 PM  
BrotherTheodore:

A number of priest molest kids = The church is nothing but perverts!

don't you mean - "a number of priests molest kids, the heirarchy of the church knows about it and moves the offending priests to new parishes so they can go after some fresh meat. everyone knows about it. further, everyone in a position to stop this is comfortable with the arrangement and therefore does nothing to stop it, rather they facilitate and perpetuate it."
 
seventypercent [TotalFark]
2006-02-06 5:13:47 PM  
2006-02-06 05:08:02 PM Gunrunnercorp

Its a freaking cartoon. The Far Side cartoon strip had pictures of God all the time, and Gary Larson never once got death threats or any American Embassys burnt down.

This is wrong. I've sent death threats on a weekly basis to Gary Larson since Arbor Day 1993. I would have burned down American embassies as well, but I'm in America, and we don't have embassies to our own country here.
 
DrakeKyrros
2006-02-06 5:14:17 PM  
nerfball

agreed. They dont have the right to do that, and they're trying to. A few of them. Not all muslims are. Christians dont hvae hte right to force their rules on everyone either. Some are trying to. Not all.

monster87

Exactly. I have no problem with the mary and christ sculptures. I dont want to fund it, but artists can do what they want. i dont really care. I dont care about cartoons either. Its this damn overreaction. GAHHHHHH

/that will be all
 
vendaz
2006-02-06 5:14:25 PM  
Religion is bunk.
 
Displayed 50 of 432 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Newest | Show all



Redisplay/refresh comments
This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking

Want the rest of the Farking story? Try

TotalFark

More threads. More community. More Farking.

learn more | sign up
On Twitter

  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.