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(ABC News)   Mr. Dung announces the arrest of Gary Glitter, who was on his way to Bangkok   (abcnews.go.com) divider line
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19117 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2005 at 6:25 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2005-11-20 10:24:33 AM  
2005-11-20 08:08:24 AM radioberlin

They really should stop playing his song at football games. Not only because it gives money to a child molester and supports his lifestyle, but because it's an irritating farking song.


Bears repeating...
Can't stand the farking song and he DOES get royalties to support his farking pedarist lifestyle.
For shame, people.
From what I hear it is hard to get kicked out of Thailand for this shiat and not only does that happen to this asshole but he then gets busted in Vietnam.
I don't think this is your typical westerner humping a teenage girl whilst paying exorbitant amounts to her family.
 
2005-11-20 10:27:50 AM  
Never heard of the guy till now. Here's his bio on Wikipedia. Scroll down to the bottom & read under "Alternative meaning" -comedy gold!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter

/sorry, HTML still sux
 
2005-11-20 10:30:59 AM  
Nice...there are already a couple of 'people' here defending him.
Well, this is FARK, I guess.
You know, I like most Western values, namely the ones that say you don't fark little girls or boys!
But hey, I'm for quaint little Western ideals like life and liberty so don't listen to me...

Oh, and Gary, if you get FARK in your prison cell, this fark YOU is from me.
 
2005-11-20 10:40:29 AM  
GungFu:
Are you raising your hand up here, or what?

I would not move to some banana republic just to bang girls, no. If I were searching for jobs though, the local availability of dirt-cheap sex with a wide assortment of Asian hotties would weigh significantly in my choice of employer.
 
2005-11-20 10:45:12 AM  
PC LOAD LETTER
When I pointed out to a friend of mine that YMCA was about men picking up boys in the YMCA, he almost threw me out of his moving car.

A couple that we are close friends with recently were asking us if we wanted to go see the The Eagles in concert. We said no thanks, we saw them on their last farewell tour. They said something like "c'mon those are classic songs, wouldn't you want to hear them again?" And I said (somewhat facetiously) "oh yeah all those somgs about doing drugs and shiat!"

"What the hell are you taking about?" They howled.

"You know, the song Hotel California is a metaphor for drug addiction." I said.

They just looked at me with a blank expression. "Where did you get that from?"

My wife, who at times can be naive about these things (she was surprised when it came out that George Michael was gay), rolled her eyes at them and said "Oh c'mon, You can check out any time you like but you can never leave."

"Oh, okay, that ONE song," they said.

"Come on, you two, Life In The Fast Lane? Witchy Woman? See how high she flies? It never occurred to you?" I asked.

"I guess I never listened that closely to the lyrics", one of them replied lamely.

Which is how it goes, I guess, for a lot of people.
 
2005-11-20 10:58:57 AM  
I say we use the sick motherfarkers for medical experiments. Why do we use cute fluffy animals for experiments when they've done nothing wrong. We should use molesters and rapists for medical research, because if we are gonna feed and cloth these sick animals while we incarcerate them, we might as well make use of them.
 
2005-11-20 11:28:04 AM  
3D defect in a 10D universe:
Nice...there are already a couple of 'people' here defending him.
Well, this is FARK, I guess.
You know, I like most Western values...


Since "people" gets scare quotes I gather I'm one of the people who has de-peopled himself by not sharing your views. (Ever consider a career in terrorism?) Judging from the chorus of revulsion so far, I'd say most farkers share your belief that your morality is the perfect thing for your neighbors, so Western values aren't under much of an attack here.

I like Western values, for the most part. I think a lot of countries would benefit if they came around to our way of thinking on topics like Rule of Law, ethnic and religeous tolerance, abhorrance for corruption, etc. I don't think East Asia has anything to gain from our sexual mores though. It's not our place to tell them who should screw, and you are seriously infatuated if you think the West has anything to teach Bangkok on how to party.
 
2005-11-20 11:36:44 AM  
Roy G. Biv - I saw this in your profile:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks 'nothing is worth dying for' is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made so by the exertations of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mills

So, when are you signing up?
 
2005-11-20 12:09:22 PM  
GungFu:
...shut the fack up, you pedo-luving-Asia-put-downing asshole.

All that aggression!

I seriously doubt the age of consent in Vietnam is 18 because that's how the locals want it. I think it has more to do with all the moon-eyed Save the Children bozos that have been pestering the area of late. Think the girls appreciate it? Watch somebody declare your job illegal and see how you like it.

And I don't luv the guy. His eyebrows are weirding me out.
 
2005-11-20 12:18:19 PM  
On the new The Who's DVD set "Tommy & Quadrophenia" the show of Quad was from Dayton on the first leg of the tour....."The Godfather" Gary Glitter footage was replaced with footage with P.J. Proby footage from 1997 since Billy Idol was not on the Second US Tour it was Ben Waters who played "The Punk". Even though Gary is a pedophile as a colletor of bootlegs it is wrong to edit a show from it's original format and the original cut of the "Quad" performance can be found on ebay with little effort.

I personally would have perfered they released a full '97 Quad gig as Pete was playing his SG & playing more solos on that leg!
 
2005-11-20 12:22:31 PM  
Gary also wrote a song that Joan Jett had a hit with....

Do You Wanna Touch (Oh Yeah)

We've been here too long tryin' to get along
Pretending that you're oh so shy
I'm a natural man doin' all I can
My temp'rature is runnin' high
Friday night no one in sight and we got so much to share
Talkin's fine if you got the time, I ain't got the time to spare

Do you wanna touch? - Yeah! Do you wanna touch? - Yeah!
Do you wanna touch me there? Yeah!
Do you wanna touch? - Yeah! Do you wanna touch? - Yeah!
Do you wanna touch me there? Where? There! Yeah! Oh!

Yeah! Oh yeah! Oh yeah! Mymymymymy!
Yeah! Oh yeah! Oh yeah!

Ev'ry growin' boy needs a little joy, all you do is sit an' stare
Beggin' on my knees, baby won't you please
Run your fingers thru' my hair
My my my whisky & Dry, don't it make you feel so fine?
Right or wrong, don't it turn you on
Can't you see we're wastin' time?

Do you wanna touch? - Yeah! Do you wanna touch? - Yeah!
Do you wanna touch me there? Yeah!
Do you wanna touch? - Yeah! Do you wanna touch? - Yeah!
Do you wanna touch me there? Where? There! Yeah! Oh!

Yeah! Oh yeah! Oh yeah! There there there there
Yeah! Oh yeah! Oh yeah! Ow
Yeah! Oh yeah! Oh yeah! ....
Every growing boy needs a little joy -
Beggin' on my knees, baby if you please -
Every growing boy needs a little toy -
I'm a natural man doin' all I can -
Every Friday night I got to get it right -
I'm waiting so long oh - ....


I wonder how many times he has told that to a minor?
 
2005-11-20 12:24:17 PM  
3D defect in a 10D universe

Nice...there are already a couple of 'people' here defending him.
Well, this is FARK, I guess.
You know, I like most Western values, namely the ones that say you don't fark little girls or boys!
But hey, I'm for quaint little Western ideals like life and liberty so don't listen to me...


That's right! You tell 'em! After all, we're guilty until proven innocent!

But you're right! America is the freest place in the world! Those Western ideals are great! We don't even have a national ID card!

/Oh wait.
 
2005-11-20 12:28:54 PM  
I think a lot of you are so willing to throw child molesters to the dogs that you wouldn't even blink an eye at letting them give up their rights -- forever.

Because there's no such thing as a false conviction, right?

If you want to know what a country is really like, look at who they have in prison and how they treat them.

America is strange. They treat murderers and rapists better than child molesters.

Would someone explain to me quantitatively why child molestation -- or even possession of child pornography -- deserves a worse punishment than murder?

Because there is someone who faces life in jail over child pronography (PDF file from the DOJ). And murderers, if the crime is not very heinous, can get out after a couple decades.

So, why is possession of child pornography worse than murder?
 
2005-11-20 12:34:13 PM  
And before any of those knee-jerk reactionists claim that I must be a child molester because I'm not lining up to burn them at the stake (this type of idiotic thinking is indicative of the fallacy of false dichotomy, by the way), let me just say that I do believe children should not be raped, and that those who commit such a crime ought to be punished.

I am merely concerned with the justice system at large. If, once their jail time is served, we start limiting the freedom of criminals in the outside world (so far it includes only sex offenders -- that in and of itself is strange. Why not murderers, drunk drivers, et cetera?), who will stand up and say no and defend the rights of those criminals? No one. It's political suicide. Before you know it, you'll have a system in which all crimes are heavily punished, a system in which once you violate the law in any way, you'll be socially, politically, and otherwise scarred for the rest of your life. I say we put a stop to that right now.
 
2005-11-20 12:48:17 PM  
GungFu:
Your apologist nature and your refusal to see Asians as human beings are sick.

The Asians aren't bad people. They're good people in a bad spot. If you weren't frothing with indignation you might have noticed I was praising them. An easygoing attitude toward sex is one of the good things they have going for them, so it pains me to see us saddle them with our sexual hang-ups (though it looks like it's going to pain Mr. Glitter even more.)
 
2005-11-20 12:53:31 PM  
You ask some valid questions, NokNoK, albeit questions that a moment's reflection and research would answer.

1) Most murders are crimes of passion. That is, one gets in a fight, bad goes to worse, and someone dies. Pedophiles are almost always repeat offenders. Studies show that they have some of the worst recidivism rates amongst the various categories of offenses. The reson for this is quite similar to the rationale behind the rapist--it is a crime of power, not sex.
Most child molesters are familiar with the victim (family or friend), and also tend to have a history of abuse themselves. For them, they are typically stuck in a state of permanent developmental retardation, where the only way that they can be "intimate" (*shudder*) is to seduce (or coerce) a child.

2) If you're murdered (heaven forbid), you're all done. If you are molested, your suffering has just started.

Your other questions regarding the justice system are ones that deserve serious debate, but I'm guessing this ain't the thread for it.
 
2005-11-20 12:59:59 PM  
allanhowls

You ask some valid questions, NokNoK, albeit questions that a moment's reflection and research would answer.

1) Most murders are crimes of passion. That is, one gets in a fight, bad goes to worse, and someone dies. Pedophiles are almost always repeat offenders. Studies show that they have some of the worst recidivism rates amongst the various categories of offenses. The reson for this is quite similar to the rationale behind the rapist--it is a crime of power, not sex.


If you only knew how much I hear point number one. Let's follow your point out to its logical conclusion.

The reason that pedophiles have one of the worst recidivism rates is because they have an uncontrollable compulsion, correct? Therefore, we should punish all criminals who have uncontrollable compulsions.

Yet rapists are not punished as much as child molesters. Yet habitual thieves are not punished as much as child molesters. Repeat drunk drivers? Those with a flagrant disregard for the law (i.e., people with antisocial personality disorder)? Why just child molesters?


Most child molesters are familiar with the victim (family or friend), and also tend to have a history of abuse themselves. For them, they are typically stuck in a state of permanent developmental retardation, where the only way that they can be "intimate" (*shudder*) is to seduce (or coerce) a child.

You're fairly correct for the most part, but I would like to point out that not all of those who suffered abuse tend to abuse others.


2) If you're murdered (heaven forbid), you're all done. If you are molested, your suffering has just started.

So you agree, then, that being murdered is preferable to being molested? How do you rationalize this position?


Your other questions regarding the justice system are ones that deserve serious debate, but I'm guessing this ain't the thread for it.

But it could be. As long as we're discussing things in a rational and calm manner and not making rampant appeals to emotion and ad hominem... like GungFu.
 
2005-11-20 1:07:11 PM  
GungFu

I must say... even though most of your posts were deleted, you are a master at the fallacy.

In this thread alone, I've seen you make a strawman, a hasty generalization, a false dichotomy, appeals to emotion and VERY blatant ad hominem.

An argument based on pathos does not make a defensible position.
 
2005-11-20 1:10:04 PM  
allanhowls - You got it spot on. If you're murdered, things are all over. Your family and loved ones suffer but they know you did nothing wrong. If you're molested, there's a good chance you will have a lot of difficulty in this life. And some molestation victims go on to molest others or commit other crimes.

I knew a kid who had been molested who went on to become an arsonist, animal abuser, and molester when he gew up. His future could've been a lot different but some sick bastard he chanced to know stole it from him.

I also think using Asia (and S. America) as the world's new source of slave labour (or pretty damn close to) is just evil. The Western world used to steal and buy slaves from Africa to do the grunt work, now we throw pennies in the direction of Asia to do it. In my eyes, not paying a living wage IS slavery. Cheap shoes and cheap sex. I'd like to think of human dignity as a universal value.
 
2005-11-20 1:12:11 PM  
Well, the one point I left out is that we do place a premium on the safety and innocence of children. Thus, a sexual act against them triggers such a revulsion in us that we as a society have deemed it appropriate to levy a harsher measure against pedophiles than we do other criminals.

That being said, I don't know that executing a murderer somehow counts as a lesser punishment than that we exact against pedophiles. We don't have the death penalty just for diddling toddlers (I know that's gross, sorry...just trying to lighten the mood a bit).

We do punish all criminals with obsessions. We also punish non-obsessive criminals. The problem is that we tend not to treat the obsessive cases. Punishment doesn't mean a whole lot if you're all but incapable of controlling your actions.

I can rationalize the notion that being murdered is preferable to being molested for precisely the reason I stated...you're dead. The damage is done, and you no longer know the difference; you're just...dead. Molestation leaves behind a living victim who will be dealing with this trauma (as well as the shame and guilt that often accompany it). I suppose then, we are left with the question of what is worse...being molested before or after being murdered. I suppose that's a point of personal preference.
 
2005-11-20 1:16:16 PM  
FunkOut

First of all, your reasoning is merely the result of the availability heuristic. You can't deduce the mindset of all those who were abused just because you happen to know one who was molested. You'll need more conclusive evidence than just your personal experience.

Show me statistics on those who were molested versus those who were molested and grew up to commit crime, and then you'll have a persuasive argument. Otherwise, you've just provided an excellent example of misleading vividness.


Well, then, let me ask the question like this:

If FunkOut and allanhowls believe that being murdered is preferable to being molested, what are we to do with children who are molested? If you truly believe that they are better off dead -- and you have indeed indicated this -- (and since most child molesters were they themselves abused) why not kill children who have been molested?
 
2005-11-20 1:17:25 PM  
Am I the only one that finds it funny that the English translation of the name of the newspaper that reported the story is "The Youth"?
 
2005-11-20 1:24:37 PM  
He just needs to hire Michael Jacksons attorney.
 
2005-11-20 1:26:16 PM  
You just went off the beam there.

Let us assume that a murder victim is not at fault for his/her murder. In both the cases of murder and molestation, there is an innocent victim. For the murder victim, the suffering is done. To date, we aren't so great at resurrecting the deceased.

For the molestation victim, the suffering will continue for years to come, more than likely. Sure, we could kill htem, thus ending their suffering, but that would be a really stupid thing to do. We can, however, provide counseling and support for the victims of molestation. For murder victims...not so much (John "douchebag" Edward notwithstanding).

If you're looking for corellation between prior abuse and a tendency towards future abusive crimes, I'd suggest you read some intrductory criminology and psychology texts. This really isn't in dispute.
 
2005-11-20 1:26:29 PM  
Wow, we got some sickos on fark, I really hope the FBI or someone is looking at this thread, we'll weed out the fark pedophiles.
 
2005-11-20 1:28:41 PM  
2005-11-20 11:57:48 AM GungFu

ShannonKW: It's not our place to tell them who should screw

The age of consent in Vietnam is 18, this is why he's being arrested.

Seemingly, he's been having 2 15yr old girls living in his house.

So, shut the fack up, you pedo-luving-Asia-put-downing asshole.


This is a blatant ad hominem. You also make an assumption about what he is. Therefore, you are attempting to make him look foolish by attacking a distorted view of him. This is known as a strawman argument. This is also an appeal to emotion.

I'm surprised it hasn't been deleted yet, because insults (ad hominem) are against the Fark Forum Rules.

2005-11-20 12:20:18 PM GungFu

Your apologist nature and your refusal to see Asians as human beings are sick. And aggression, yeah, people like you should get it big time.

You know, you sound like a pedophile.

If Gary Glitter was on Fark, he'd write as you just do.


Again, another ad hominem and strawman attack: you're attempting to refute his argument by insulting him, distorting his statements, and then attacking the distorted views. You also make hasty generalizations based on his views.

2005-11-20 12:58:17 PM GungFu

Praising them for having sex with Western pedophiles for money because it's easier than working in some sweatshop.

If that's your kind of praise, I'd dare say that your view towards Asians are nothing more than that of a pedophile, or a condescending Westerner, whichever one you are.


This is a classic example of the false dichotomy and also a version of the old "Have you stopped being your wife?" question. It's called the fallacy of the many questions. Again, such an insulter... apparently you can only argue when you can insult your opponent... instead of debating him with things like reasoning, logic, and facts.

2005-11-20 01:02:17 PM GungFu

Ohh, be quiet, drama queen.

The UFOs are watching you.


This is a strawman. You're attempting to paint a caricature of me in hopes that it will my make my arguments look stupid.

2005-11-20 01:13:00 PM GungFu

And it was deleted. No idea why, as others replied to it as I did.

Ad hominem insults are against the Fark forum rules.


So, get your facts right instead of jumping head first into a pile of manure and making a fool of yourself.

Well, I have facts and reasoning. You have appeals to emotion and logical fallacies. I'm only stating the truth. Please argue honorably.


Still looking for them aliens thingees?

Oh, and what fallacy have I mentioned?

Name one, Mulder.


The same strawman attack as the previous post.


At any rate, I believe myself and others are quite sure you are a troll who is, as we can deduce from the evidence in this thread, incapable of reasonable, logical argument. You attempt to evoke emotions out of the audience to garner favor and ridicule your opponent -- instead of sticking to facts. I'd like to see what you're really capable of.
 
2005-11-20 1:37:51 PM  
allanhowls

You just went off the beam there.

Not at all. It is a logical conclusion based on the following statements:

2005-11-20 12:53:31 PM allanhowls: 2) If you're murdered (heaven forbid), you're all done. If you are molested, your suffering has just started.

2005-11-20 01:10:04 PM FunkOut: allanhowls - You got it spot on. If you're murdered, things are all over. Your family and loved ones suffer but they know you did nothing wrong. If you're molested, there's a good chance you will have a lot of difficulty in this life. And some molestation victims go on to molest others or commit other crimes.

However, you seemed to change your mind the second time around:

2005-11-20 01:12:11 PM allanhowls: I can rationalize the notion that being murdered is preferable to being molested for precisely the reason I stated...you're dead. The damage is done, and you no longer know the difference; you're just...dead. Molestation leaves behind a living victim who will be dealing with this trauma (as well as the shame and guilt that often accompany it). I suppose then, we are left with the question of what is worse...being molested before or after being murdered. I suppose that's a point of personal preference.


Let us assume that a murder victim is not at fault for his/her murder. In both the cases of murder and molestation, there is an innocent victim. For the murder victim, the suffering is done. To date, we aren't so great at resurrecting the deceased.

For the molestation victim, the suffering will continue for years to come, more than likely. Sure, we could kill htem, thus ending their suffering, but that would be a really stupid thing to do. We can, however, provide counseling and support for the victims of molestation. For murder victims...not so much (John "douchebag" Edward notwithstanding).

If you're looking for corellation between prior abuse and a tendency towards future abusive crimes, I'd suggest you read some intrductory criminology and psychology texts. This really isn't in dispute.


I know very well that there is a correlation between prior abuse and tendency to commit future crimes.

However, as FunkOut seemed to indicate, those who are abused are destined for a life of crime.

Is that right, FunkOut?

So are your positions that murder is preferable to death based on any objective evidence, or are they personal preferences after all? I am getting conflicting answers here.

But, if those positions are objective, then my premise in the previous post stands.
 
2005-11-20 1:42:28 PM  
OK here's one to ponder.

Remember when Michael Jackson was accused of child molestation ( the most recent time ) and the reaction by the public? Remember when the NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL refused to play Michael Jackson music because of his alleged crimes? Remember that he was never convicted but his 'music' is still banned?

So how come we hear in every sporting event Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part 2"? The guy has been convicted numerous times for child pron. He is a criminal, a proven criminal, yet we hear that crappy oooowooo wooo HAY doo doo doo, oooowooo wooo HAY doo doo doo song during every football, basketball, baseball and hockey game.

Talk about bizarre double standards. No I am not supporting child molestors but dangit Gary Glitter's the worst of the lot and dangit his 'song' should be banned. Jeez I grew up during the glam rock era and I never even heard of Gary Glitter until someone finally told me who did that annoying 'song'. Then I'd read stuff about every year that consisted of headlines invariably remarking on the latest kiddie pron arrest of Gary Glitter.

I propose a campaign to ban Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part 2" from any public sporting event. I've already e-mailed the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL, but I doubt anyone gives a rat's behind because the 'song' is so popular. Also, no one knows who made that 'song' in the USA. I dare anyone, other than my album-head friend, to show me a Gary Glitter LP. Good gobs I hope that pig never got his garbage put on a CD. We've got enough bad criminal scumbag slimeballs as it is in the music industry.

--- rant rant rant ---
 
2005-11-20 1:44:13 PM  
The personal preference I was referring to was whether you want to be molested before or after being murdered. You know...in Europe, they eat their salad after the main course. :-)

I think we all realize that the choice between "dead and not suffering" and "alive but traumatized" is a subjective one. You asked the question, and I have picked up the aegis of vox populi. I also flagrantly mix my Latin and Greek phrases...meh.
 
2005-11-20 1:44:18 PM  
We live in a society where people regularly have the TV and DVD player raise their kids. Where if the kids whine sufficiently, parents give them everything just to shut them up. Where parents medicate their kids instead of giving them attention over their learning and behavioral problems. Where its okay for parents fight like psychotically deranged idiots through their divorce, and to hell with the kids if they're hurt in the crossfire. Where teenagers are committed to locked down psychiatric outfits because parents can't be bothered to deal with their kids' goth phase. Where governments regularly underfund child welfare services and then politicians decry the terrible conditions, and yet don't actually do anything to change it.

In this society we're busy doing everything we can to avert any true sense of responsibilty for our children, while making ourselves feel better by getting outraged over this issue or that issue. Demanding V-chips in TV's one day, anger over Janet Jackson's middle aged boob on TV the next, or news stories about orphaned Romanian kids.

Purely emotional rage reactions to pedophiles is one more way we can say "see? we really do care about our children after all" and also get the satisfying endorphin rush that blind rage and adrenalin can provide.

While we condemn one or two pedophiles to hell we pat ourselves on the back, ignoring our own sins, and forgetting that while we may have locked up a few pedophiles, there's lots more that will never be found because they'll stay underground to avoid the socially acceptable murderous rage, instead of seeking out treatment.

Maybe we should busy ourselves with getting rid of our hypocrisy and trying to make sure that our children get the upbringing they deserve and stop all this mindless outrage against the occasional moron.

Gary Glitter is going to jail in Vietnam because he's an idiot and obviously hasn't gotten any help for his problem. Maybe the experience will teach him something (I doubt it). I don't care to lock him up forever simply because he's a pedophile. I'd rather serial muderers and sociopaths get that treatment. Whatever happens, just as long as he doesn't hurt anyone else, that's all I care about.


/end rant
 
2005-11-20 1:52:46 PM  
allanhowls

The personal preference I was referring to was whether you want to be molested before or after being murdered. You know...in Europe, they eat their salad after the main course. :-)

I think we all realize that the choice between "dead and not suffering" and "alive but traumatized" is a subjective one. You asked the question, and I have picked up the aegis of vox populi. I also flagrantly mix my Latin and Greek phrases...meh.


Aegis is Latin. Granted, the word is of Greek origin...

But wait -- are you attempting to make another claim here? What is the opinion of the people? Do they prefer "dead and not suffering" or "alive but trauamatized"? And if you don't know, then why did you bring up popular sentiment to begin with? Can you prove the popular sentiment is necessarily one or the other?
 
2005-11-20 1:56:21 PM  
GungFu:
Praising them for having sex with Western pedophiles for money because it's easier than working in some sweatshop.

What would you do if those were your options? This is the reality of life for girls in some places. Considering your earnest comments up to now it seems maybe you'd prefer the path of Hard Work. But wouldn't you like to decide for yourself? Your point of view recalls a Japanese woman who made FARK a while back by killing her child and attempting suicide. Her excuse was that she didn't want the kid to grow up an orphan. How nice of her to decide that for him. In his shoes I would have been all like, "Look, Mom, really, I can live with the grief!"

If that's your kind of praise, I'd dare say that your view towards Asians are nothing more than that of a pedophile, or a condescending Westerner, whichever one you are.

First off, it's not condescension. I don't look down on whores. I'd much rather hang out with them than, say, sanctimonious people. Secondly, it isn't pedophilia to approve the practice in cases where the participants benefit, which in many cases (and perhaps in the case of Mr. Glitter) they do. I guess you believe that any sex with a underage girl is harmful, but it to me seems much more likely from the standpoint of physiology that it's safe for a girl to have sex around the age she starts wanting to have sex.
 
2005-11-20 1:56:28 PM  
Ikahoshi

In this society we're busy doing everything we can to avert any true sense of responsibilty for our children, while making ourselves feel better by getting outraged over this issue or that issue. Demanding V-chips in TV's one day, anger over Janet Jackson's middle aged boob on TV the next, or news stories about orphaned Romanian kids.

Purely emotional rage reactions to pedophiles is one more way we can say "see? we really do care about our children after all" and also get the satisfying endorphin rush that blind rage and adrenalin can provide.

While we condemn one or two pedophiles to hell we pat ourselves on the back, ignoring our own sins, and forgetting that while we may have locked up a few pedophiles, there's lots more that will never be found because they'll stay underground to avoid the socially acceptable murderous rage, instead of seeking out treatment.

Maybe we should busy ourselves with getting rid of our hypocrisy and trying to make sure that our children get the upbringing they deserve and stop all this mindless outrage against the occasional moron.


A withering attack against a deserving society. Bravo!
Would you mind if I put this in my quote file and quote from you later on?
 
2005-11-20 1:58:24 PM  
You started with an assertion that we treat molesters more harshly than murderers. I just presented an encapsulation of of the anecdotal evidence I hear as to why this is so.

I don't think either one of us are anywhere near gospel truth on the matter, however. I can't prove this any more than you can. That's why we're talking opinions here.

By the way, I expect a little more acknowledgement of my jokes from here on out, sonny. :-p
 
2005-11-20 1:59:56 PM  
NokNoKCPU - I said some go one to commit crimes, dummy. Some. I quote "And some molestation victims go on to molest others or commit other crimes." Some means a much smaller percentage than the majority. But you indicated that you think I said "However, as FunkOut seemed to indicate, those who are abused are destined for a life of crime". I didn't say that. I said SOME. I don't use studies to have this opinion ; I go by all the abuse victims I know. Most have needed therapy and are fragile in many respects in their psychological makeup. But some have gone on to do things. In one case, I saw three generations abusing the next.

For someone who loves to pick apart the arguments of others using a first level philosophy textbook, NokNoKCPU, you certainly did a poor job even reading what I said.

And quite arguing that "Western culture needs to be more accepting of foreign values" bit. My ancient Celtic ancestors used to put criminals in bogs and collect the heads of their enemies. Should I start doing that? No. I have no space left on the entertainment centre for heads what with all the houseplants and zombie movies.
 
2005-11-20 2:00:30 PM  
GungFu

Look, any sort of insult you can throw at me is pointless. I won't have my time wasted by a classic troll whose posts are so vitriolic that they had to be deleted. I've already pointed out your erroneous thinking, and from here on out, I'll let others do that.

However, if you decide to stop thrashing about wildly and instead want to debate about something with facts, come back any time.
 
2005-11-20 2:04:12 PM  
A withering attack against a deserving society. Bravo!

meh...We're no more corrupt now than we ever have been. We just have unprecedented access to each others' perversions, and a pervasive media to sell our nosy snitchiness back to us.

Nowadays, we lock up our kids for being goth (not bloody likely, and pretty rare, methinks). It used to be that we sent them away for the crimes of talking back, getting pregnant, etc. No real difference.

Let's not try to play, "pin the blame on the culture" here, since there are ample parallels from any point in time. Aristotle even decried the corrupt and disrespectful nature of kids compared to his own generation, and the Greeks liked them some young boys.
 
2005-11-20 2:06:41 PM  
FunkOut

I said some go one to commit crimes, dummy.

There's no need for an ad hominem. Your statements should speak for themselves.


Some. I quote "And some molestation victims go on to molest others or commit other crimes." Some means a much smaller percentage than the majority. But you indicated that you think I said "However, as FunkOut seemed to indicate, those who are abused are destined for a life of crime". I didn't say that. I said SOME.

I concede the point. You said "some," and did not make a sweeping generalization of all those who had been abused.


I don't use studies to have this opinion ; I go by all the abuse victims I know.

However, this won't work. You need statistics in order to validate your point. As I have already indicated, you have fallen prey to the availability heuristic. Personal experiences do not allow one, no matter how hard one may wish, to be able to discern the nature of something in general -- i.e., you cannot make generalizations based on personal observations.


Most have needed therapy and are fragile in many respects in their psychological makeup. But some have gone on to do things. In one case, I saw three generations abusing the next.

For someone who loves to pick apart the arguments of others using a first level philosophy textbook, NokNoKCPU, you certainly did a poor job even reading what I said.


Again with an ad hominem. Why don't you provide some FACTS instead of your personal, subjective experiences?


And quite arguing that "Western culture needs to be more accepting of foreign values" bit.

PLEASE QUOTE WHERE I SAID THIS.


My ancient Celtic ancestors used to put criminals in bogs and collect the heads of their enemies. Should I start doing that? No. I have no space left on the entertainment centre for heads what with all the houseplants and zombie movies.

Even if I had said what you claimed, this would be a strawman: you're setting up a distorted view of my argument (which doesn't even exist, because I didn't say anything even remotely resembling what you claim) in order to knock down the distortion and thus make me appear to look foolish.
 
2005-11-20 2:08:40 PM  
allanhowls

meh...We're no more corrupt now than we ever have been. We just have unprecedented access to each others' perversions, and a pervasive media to sell our nosy snitchiness back to us.

Nowadays, we lock up our kids for being goth (not bloody likely, and pretty rare, methinks). It used to be that we sent them away for the crimes of talking back, getting pregnant, etc. No real difference.

Let's not try to play, "pin the blame on the culture" here, since there are ample parallels from any point in time. Aristotle even decried the corrupt and disrespectful nature of kids compared to his own generation, and the Greeks liked them some young boys.


Two wrongs do not make a right.
 
2005-11-20 2:12:16 PM  
It's not two wrongs...it's the same wrong repeated over and over and over again. There seems to be an undercurrent of "OMG, Western culture is so screwed up today!" and it's simply not true. Things are no worse now than they have ever been, and that's all I'm saying.
 
2005-11-20 2:15:04 PM  
allanhowls

It's not two wrongs...it's the same wrong repeated over and over and over again. There seems to be an undercurrent of "OMG, Western culture is so screwed up today!" and it's simply not true. Things are no worse now than they have ever been, and that's all I'm saying.

That may be true, but you cannot justify the ills of Western societies on the premise that other societies in the past were just as bad.
 
2005-11-20 2:15:42 PM  
NokNoKCPU:
And [quit] arguing that "Western culture needs to be more accepting of foreign values" bit.

PLEASE QUOTE WHERE I SAID THIS.


I think that barb was aimed at me.
 
2005-11-20 2:16:37 PM  
ShannonKW

Oh? Well, he should have indicated thusly.

By the way, he's making a strawman argument against you.
 
2005-11-20 2:17:07 PM  
NokNoKCPU A withering attack against a deserving society. Bravo!
Would you mind if I put this in my quote file and quote from you later on?


I have to wonder if there's any sarcasm there (I'm so rarely quotable), but if you want to quote me, I'm not gonna stop you.

I had to say it because its been bothering me for ages. I'm just sick of hypocrisy in general. Way too much floating around out there.
 
2005-11-20 2:18:10 PM  
But I can say that they're no different, and it's not just Western culture either. It's not a justification, simply a fact. If you don't like it, there's nothing short of a time machine that will change it.

So really, this is precious little more than mental masturbation (in a kiddie pr0n thread, no less). Besides, what makes this an "ill," and what exactly is the ill we're decrying here?

I decry the ill that Emma Watson is not yet legal, just to bring this thread back on-topic.
 
2005-11-20 2:18:50 PM  
Ikahoshi

I have to wonder if there's any sarcasm there (I'm so rarely quotable), but if you want to quote me, I'm not gonna stop you.

I had to say it because its been bothering me for ages. I'm just sick of hypocrisy in general. Way too much floating around out there.


No sarcasm -- it's a geniune desire to quote from your post. I've never heard anyone so succinctly describe the reactionary nature of our society and our attitude toward children.
 
2005-11-20 2:22:46 PM  
YOu know if you take out NokNok's supercilious claptrap, this is actually quite a short thread considering it's about Gary Glitter banging kids.

The only way to deal with this smugness is to detach NokNok's enormous ego and shove it right up his Gary Glitter.
 
2005-11-20 2:25:24 PM  
Motley

YOu know if you take out NokNok's supercilious claptrap, this is actually quite a short thread considering it's about Gary Glitter banging kids.

The only way to deal with this smugness is to detach NokNok's enormous ego and shove it right up his Gary Glitter.


You need to take a page from GungFu. More strawmen! More ad hominem! Liven it up a little. I was a little disappointed.
 
2005-11-20 2:26:48 PM  
allanhowls Let's not try to play, "pin the blame on the culture" here, since there are ample parallels from any point in time.

I am not blaming society, I am decrying the lack of true concern for our own kids, and the public displays of hypocrisy with regards to this area of discussion. I'm asking for personal responsibility and intelligent discourse on serious issues.

This is the 21st century damn it, we should expect a bit better from people than the same old nonsense. Well I do anyway. I expect better and I say so.

/speaking of the 21st century, where's my flying car?
 
2005-11-20 2:31:37 PM  
I am decrying the lack of true concern for our own kids, and the public displays of hypocrisy with regards to this area of discussion. I'm asking for personal responsibility and intelligent discourse on serious issues.

You have a few thousand years of inertia to work against...good luck with that.

speaking of the 21st century, where's my flying car?

One of those damn juvenile delinquents stole it. I say we fark 'em 'til they confess!
/no, not really.
 
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