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(Drudge)   Now that Congress has solved the Iraq war, budget woes, trade deficits and Social Security, the most pressing issue facing us now is the burning of the flag   (apnews.myway.com) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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6405 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 22 Jun 2005 at 8:38 PM (18 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



875 Comments     (+0 »)


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2005-06-22 5:45:19 PM  
Ok TFers, move the flamewar here.
 
2005-06-22 5:46:15 PM  
*sigh*

"Oh no, not again."
 
2005-06-22 5:46:25 PM  
The fact that I can burn the flag is the reason I never would


-pheen
 
2005-06-22 5:46:56 PM  
Why do you hate America, submitter?
 
2005-06-22 5:47:36 PM  
Nice to see Congress is doing such a bang-up job of protecting America... er, well, our flag, anyway.

/Osama bin who?
 
2005-06-22 5:48:14 PM  
[image from img47.echo.cx too old to be available]
 
2005-06-22 5:48:33 PM  
didn't these people see THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT ?
michael douglas must be rolling over in his grave !
 
2005-06-22 5:49:10 PM  
i may hate what you say, but i'd die for your right to say it.

/not verbatim but who gives a shiat
 
2005-06-22 5:49:44 PM  
Those who would conflate the symbol with what it means are traitors- they are traitors to the very idea of what it means to be American, and the spirit of this nation.

If you make flag-burning (or any other form of "desecration") illegal, the flag will no longer mean anything; you will have replaced the thing being symbolized with the thing itself... no longer will it represent the idea of freedom, democracy and tolerance, but merely a nationalistic fervor that parrots such concepts without any real understanding of their power or price.

It might as well be the flag of China, North Korea or Vietnam.
 
2005-06-22 5:49:44 PM  
*unfold deck chair, has a marmite and cheese sammich, waits*

Who's got the beer?
 
2005-06-22 5:49:48 PM  
"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."


What a farking tool. End of discussion.
 
2005-06-22 5:49:57 PM  
So who agrees with this bill?
 
2005-06-22 5:51:36 PM  
2005-06-22 05:49:48 PM dsmo


"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."


What a farking tool. End of discussion.


In-farking-deed
 
2005-06-22 5:54:24 PM  
The do this all the time in the House. It gets shut down in the Senate.

/burning the flag is wrong but there should be no law against doing it.
 
2005-06-22 5:54:25 PM  
So who agrees with this bill?

A partial list:

Rep Aderholt, Robert B. [AL-4] - 6/14/2005
Rep Alexander, Rodney [LA-5] - 2/1/2005
Rep Baca, Joe [CA-43] - 6/13/2005
Rep Bachus, Spencer [AL-6] - 4/26/2005
Rep Baker, Richard H. [LA-6] - 2/1/2005
Rep Barrett, J. Gresham [SC-3] - 6/14/2005
Rep Bartlett, Roscoe G. [MD-6] - 1/25/2005
Rep Barton, Joe [TX-6] - 6/14/2005
Rep Bass, Charles F. [NH-2] - 1/25/2005
Rep Beauprez, Bob [CO-7] - 6/13/2005
Rep Berkley, Shelley [NV-1] - 3/15/2005
Rep Berry, Marion [AR-1] - 6/14/2005
Rep Bilirakis, Michael [FL-9] - 4/5/2005
Rep Bishop, Rob [UT-1] - 6/7/2005
Rep Blackburn, Marsha [TN-7] - 6/13/2005
Rep Blunt, Roy [MO-7] - 6/14/2005
Rep Boehlert, Sherwood [NY-24] - 1/25/2005
Rep Boehner, John A. [OH-8] - 6/13/2005
Rep Bono, Mary [CA-45] - 6/14/2005
Rep Boren, Dan [OK-2] - 5/23/2005
Rep Boswell, Leonard L. [IA-3] - 3/7/2005
Rep Boustany, Charles W., Jr. [LA-7] - 4/12/2005
Rep Boyd, Allen [FL-2] - 6/14/2005
Rep Bradley, Jeb [NH-1] - 1/25/2005
Rep Brady, Kevin [TX-8] - 6/13/2005
Rep Brown, Henry E., Jr. [SC-1] - 6/14/2005
Rep Brown-Waite, Ginny [FL-5] - 5/17/2005
Rep Burgess, Michael C. [TX-26] - 6/14/2005
Rep Burton, Dan [IN-5] - 4/28/2005
Rep Buyer, Steve [IN-4] - 1/25/2005
Rep Cannon, Chris [UT-3] - 5/10/2005
Rep Cantor, Eric [VA-7] - 6/13/2005
Rep Capito, Shelley Moore [WV-2] - 3/2/2005
Rep Cardoza, Dennis A. [CA-18] - 3/17/2005
Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31] - 5/10/2005
Rep Chabot, Steve [OH-1] - 4/28/2005
Rep Chocola, Chris [IN-2] - 6/14/2005
Rep Coble, Howard [NC-6] - 5/17/2005
Rep Cole, Tom [OK-4] - 6/14/2005
Rep Costello, Jerry F. [IL-12] - 6/14/2005
Rep Cramer, Robert E. (Bud), Jr. [AL-5] - 4/26/2005
Rep Crowley, Joseph [NY-7] - 1/25/2005
Rep Cubin, Barbara [WY] - 1/25/2005
Rep Culberson, John Abney [TX-7] - 2/15/2005
Rep Davis, Jo Ann [VA-1] - 1/25/2005
Rep Davis, Lincoln [TN-4] - 1/25/2005
Rep Davis, Tom [VA-11] - 5/17/2005
Rep Deal, Nathan [GA-10] - 6/8/2005
Rep Doolittle, John T. [CA-4] - 1/25/2005
Rep Drake, Thelma D. [VA-2] - 5/10/2005
Rep Edwards, Chet [TX-17] - 3/7/2005
Rep Emerson, Jo Ann [MO-8] - 5/23/2005
Rep English, Phil [PA-3] - 3/8/2005
Rep Everett, Terry [AL-2] - 2/15/2005
Rep Feeney, Tom [FL-24] - 6/14/2005
Rep Ferguson, Mike [NJ-7] - 1/25/2005
Rep Foley, Mark [FL-16] - 5/10/2005
Rep Forbes, J. Randy [VA-4] - 2/1/2005
Rep Fortenberry, Jeff [NE-1] - 4/12/2005
Rep Fossella, Vito [NY-13] - 6/13/2005
Rep Franks, Trent [AZ-2] - 4/26/2005
Rep Frelinghuysen, Rodney P. [NJ-11] - 4/26/2005
Rep Garrett, Scott [NJ-5] - 1/25/2005
Rep Gibbons, Jim [NV-2] - 1/25/2005
Rep Goode, Virgil H., Jr. [VA-5] - 1/25/2005
Rep Goodlatte, Bob [VA-6] - 5/10/2005
Rep Gordon, Bart [TN-6] - 4/5/2005
Rep Granger, Kay [TX-12] - 6/14/2005
Rep Graves, Sam [MO-6] - 4/5/2005
Rep Green, Gene [TX-29] - 3/7/2005
Rep Green, Mark [WI-8] - 1/25/2005
Rep Gutknecht, Gil [MN-1] - 6/13/2005
Rep Hart, Melissa A. [PA-4] - 6/13/2005
Rep Hastings, Doc [WA-4] - 1/25/2005
Rep Hayes, Robin [NC-8] - 2/9/2005
Rep Hayworth, J. D. [AZ-5] - 4/12/2005
Rep Hefley, Joel [CO-5] - 1/25/2005
Rep Hensarling, Jeb [TX-5] - 6/14/2005
Rep Herger, Wally [CA-2] - 5/26/2005
Rep Herseth, Stephanie [SD] - 3/8/2005
Rep Hobson, David L. [OH-7] - 6/14/2005
Rep Holden, Tim [PA-17] - 1/25/2005
Rep Hostettler, John N. [IN-8] - 2/2/2005
Rep Hunter, Duncan [CA-52] - 1/25/2005
Rep Hyde, Henry J. [IL-6] - 3/1/2005
Rep Issa, Darrell E. [CA-49] - 1/25/2005
Rep Istook, Ernest J., Jr. [OK-5] - 4/18/2005
Rep Jenkins, William L. [TN-1] - 4/5/2005
Rep Jindal, Bobby [LA-1] - 6/8/2005
Rep Johnson, Nancy L. [CT-5] - 1/25/2005
Rep Johnson, Sam [TX-3] - 6/13/2005
Rep Jones, Walter B., Jr. [NC-3] - 6/13/2005
Rep Kanjorski, Paul E. [PA-11] - 4/18/2005
Rep Kelly, Sue W. [NY-19] - 2/1/2005
Rep Kennedy, Mark R. [MN-6] - 1/25/2005
Rep King, Peter T. [NY-3] - 3/7/2005
Rep King, Steve [IA-5] - 1/25/2005
Rep Kingston, Jack [GA-1] - 6/8/2005
Rep Kline, John [MN-2] - 5/17/2005
Rep Knollenberg, Joe [MI-9] - 1/25/2005
Rep Kuhl, John R. "Randy", Jr. [NY-29] - 3/7/2005
Rep LaHood, Ray [IL-18] - 3/10/2005
Rep Langevin, James R. [RI-2] - 2/8/2005
Rep Latham, Tom [IA-4] - 3/7/2005
Rep Lewis, Ron [KY-2] - 2/1/2005
Rep Linder, John [GA-7] - 2/9/2005
Rep LoBiondo, Frank A. [NJ-2] - 6/13/2005
Rep Lucas, Frank D. [OK-3] - 4/28/2005
Rep Lynch, Stephen F. [MA-9] - 6/14/2005
Rep Manzullo, Donald A. [IL-16] - 6/14/2005
Rep Marshall, Jim [GA-3] - 5/17/2005
Rep McCarthy, Carolyn [NY-4] - 1/25/2005
Rep McCaul, Michael T. [TX-10] - 1/25/2005
Rep McCrery, Jim [LA-4] - 6/14/2005
Rep McGovern, James P. [MA-3] - 1/25/2005
Rep McHenry, Patrick T. [NC-10] - 5/17/2005
Rep McHugh, John M. [NY-23] - 1/25/2005
Rep McIntyre, Mike [NC-7] - 1/25/2005
Rep McNulty, Michael R. [NY-21] - 4/18/2005
Rep Menendez, Robert [NJ-13] - 1/25/2005
Rep Michaud, Michael H. [ME-2] - 3/10/2005
Rep Miller, Candice S. [MI-10] - 6/14/2005
Rep Miller, Gary G. [CA-42] - 6/14/2005
Rep Miller, Jeff [FL-1] - 6/14/2005
Rep Mollohan, Alan B. [WV-1] - 1/25/2005
Rep Moran, Jerry [KS-1] - 6/7/2005
Rep Murphy, Tim [PA-18] - 3/1/2005
Rep Murtha, John P. [PA-12] - 1/25/2005
Rep Musgrave, Marilyn N. [CO-4] - 2/8/2005
Rep Napolitano, Grace F. [CA-38] - 6/14/2005
Rep Neugebauer, Randy [TX-19] - 5/17/2005
Rep Ney, Robert W. [OH-18] - 3/7/2005
Rep Northup, Anne M. [KY-3] - 2/1/2005
Rep Norwood, Charlie [GA-9] - 5/10/2005
Rep Nussle, Jim [IA-1] - 5/10/2005
Rep Osborne, Tom [NE-3] - 5/26/2005
Rep Otter, C. L. (Butch) [ID-1] - 1/25/2005
Rep Oxley, Michael G. [OH-4] - 4/21/2005
Rep Pence, Mike [IN-6] - 5/10/2005
Rep Peterson, Collin C. [MN-7] - 3/1/2005
Rep Peterson, John E. [PA-5] - 5/3/2005
Rep Pickering, Charles W. (Chip) [MS-3] - 2/8/2005
Rep Pitts, Joseph R. [PA-16] - 1/25/2005
Rep Platts, Todd Russell [PA-19] - 3/7/2005
Rep Pomeroy, Earl [ND] - 2/2/2005
Rep Porter, Jon C. [NV-3] - 3/2/2005
Rep Price, Tom [GA-6] - 5/10/2005
Rep Putnam, Adam H. [FL-12] - 4/14/2005
Rep Rahall, Nick J., II [WV-3] - 2/8/2005
Rep Ramstad, Jim [MN-3] - 1/25/2005
Rep Rehberg, Dennis R. [MT] - 3/15/2005
Rep Renzi, Rick [AZ-1] - 5/10/2005
Rep Reyes, Silvestre [TX-16] - 5/3/2005
Rep Reynolds, Thomas M. [NY-26] - 2/9/2005
Rep Rogers, Harold [KY-5] - 6/13/2005
Rep Rogers, Mike [MI-8] - 1/25/2005
Rep Rogers, Mike D. [AL-3] - 5/19/2005
Rep Ross, Mike [AR-4] - 6/8/2005
Rep Rothman, Steven R. [NJ-9] - 3/2/2005
Rep Royce, Edward R. [CA-40] - 1/25/2005
Rep Ryan, Paul [WI-1] - 3/7/2005
Rep Ryun, Jim [KS-2] - 6/13/2005
Rep Sanchez, Loretta [CA-47] - 6/14/2005
Rep Saxton, Jim [NJ-3] - 6/14/2005
Rep Scott, David [GA-13] - 6/13/2005
Rep Sessions, Pete [TX-32] - 5/10/2005
Rep Sherwood, Don [PA-10] - 5/23/2005
Rep Shimkus, John [IL-19] - 5/3/2005
Rep Shuster, Bill [PA-9] - 2/1/2005
Rep Simmons, Rob [CT-2] - 1/25/2005
Rep Simpson, Michael K. [ID-2] - 3/10/2005
Rep Skelton, Ike [MO-4] - 6/8/2005
Rep Smith, Lamar [TX-21] - 1/25/2005
Rep Sodrel, Michael E. [IN-9] - 5/3/2005
Rep Souder, Mark E. [IN-3] - 5/23/2005
Rep Strickland, Ted [OH-6] - 6/13/2005
Rep Sullivan, John [OK-1] - 4/28/2005
Rep Tancredo, Thomas G. [CO-6] - 1/25/2005
Rep Taylor, Charles H. [NC-11] - 1/25/2005
Rep Taylor, Gene [MS-4] - 1/25/2005
Rep Terry, Lee [NE-2] - 1/25/2005
Rep Thornberry, Mac [TX-13] - 5/17/2005
Rep Tiahrt, Todd [KS-4] - 6/14/2005
Rep Tiberi, Patrick J. [OH-12] - 6/7/2005
Rep Walden, Greg [OR-2] - 3/15/2005
Rep Wamp, Zach [TN-3] - 1/25/2005
Rep Weldon, Curt [PA-7] - 6/13/2005
Rep Weldon, Dave [FL-15] - 4/28/2005
Rep Weller, Jerry [IL-11] - 6/14/2005
Rep Whitfield, Ed [KY-1] - 5/10/2005
Rep Wicker, Roger F. [MS-1] - 1/25/2005
Rep Wilson, Heather [NM-1] - 6/13/2005
Rep Wilson, Joe [SC-2] - 1/25/2005
Rep Wolf, Frank R. [VA-10] - 1/25/2005
Rep Young, C. W. Bill [FL-10] - 2/2/2005
Rep Young, Don [AK] - 4/26/2005
 
2005-06-22 5:56:48 PM  
Let me geuss. This is being pushed by the same republitards that were screaming "the koran is only a book, what's the big deal?" a few weeks ago.
 
2005-06-22 5:57:10 PM  
Seth_J

The do this all the time in the House. It gets shut down in the Senate.

Yes, but supposedly 65 current members of the Senate have voted for the amendment in the past. That means only two more are needed for it to be sent to the state legislatures, assuming support for the amendments remains.

I'd say the 65 might go down a few...some of the guys who did it as grandstanding the first time might change their stance when they realize the bill could actually pass.
 
2005-06-22 5:57:37 PM  
img.fark.net

But Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., said, "If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents."

Sometimes, when you arent stealing money from my pocket to buy votes, you Democrats are alright.
 
2005-06-22 5:58:51 PM  
Rep Wilson, Heather [NM-1] - 6/13/2005

Gee, big farking shock. Why in the hell can't New Mexico Dems (or greens or libs or...) find a semi-literate orangutan with a dash of charisma to run against this crazy biatch? So far they've put up the idiot son of the Maloof family, and a used up dishrag against her... Ugh.
 
2005-06-22 5:59:20 PM  
dsmo: "Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."

This, from a former Vietnam fighter ace? I guess he smelled too much JP-4? How unfortunate that he couldn't be more like McCain.
 
2005-06-22 6:00:17 PM  
Count me as one republican who thinks we don't need this amendment.
 
2005-06-22 6:00:37 PM  
2005-06-22 05:59:48 PM Driving Without Pants


Way to fark the whole thread.
 
2005-06-22 6:01:19 PM  
Santos L. Halper: "Count me as one republican who thinks we don't need this amendment."

That makes you a democrat or worse by the current standards of the country.
 
2005-06-22 6:01:34 PM  
Driving Without Pants: THIS IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FREEDOM

Accept when Marylin Manson does it... then it's just a gimmick.
 
2005-06-22 6:01:43 PM  
One of the best speeches I've ever seen from the floor of the House was several years ago while watching C-SPAN when they were debating one of the previous attempts. I think it was the guy from Vermont who will be running for Senator, but can't be sure. Anyways, he went around the two block radius outside the Capitol and bought up all the rediculous crap you can get off the vendors with the flag on it: ties, cups, underwear, etc. etc. He pulled each one out and said: "Is this desecration?" "Is this desecration?". He did it in a masterful manner and then talked about freedom of speach, etc. I can't do it justice with this recap. One of the most effective 90 seconds of debate I'd ever seen. The gallery cheered at the end (which they aren't supposed to do and resulted in furious gaveling). They cut back to the Speaker or whomever was running the circus that day (who at the time I believe was Bob Livingston) and it looked like the top of his head was going to pop off he was so steamed to be made to look so foolish.

One of my cherished memories of gub'ment.
 
2005-06-22 6:03:04 PM  
eabod

Even if it's being done as a cheap gimmick... it's still one's right to do so.
 
2005-06-22 6:03:13 PM  
*skims amendment*

Gizzing on it's still okay! I'm in.
 
2005-06-22 6:03:52 PM  
Driving Without Pants: it's still one's right to do so.

Yeah, I just like to take a jab at Manson whenever I get the chance.
 
2005-06-22 6:04:08 PM  
dsmo: Rep Boyd, Allen [FL-2] - 6/14/2005

Hmm... theres my Rep. and he's a Democrat. It's both sides of the isle.

[image from home.earthlink.net too old to be available]
 
2005-06-22 6:05:59 PM  
eabod
Yeah, I just like to take a jab at Manson whenever I get the chance.

Best jab at Manson, ever, comes from an episode of Mr. Show titled "Patriotism, Pepper, and Professionalism."

/primp always
 
2005-06-22 6:06:57 PM  
Cyclometh:

If you make flag-burning (or any other form of "desecration") illegal, the flag will no longer mean anything;

You're right, but this is a bit of a red herring.

Flag burning amendments have nothing to do with flag burning (ironically enough). It's a political toy to make the other side look bad. There are probably a few hardcore supporters who think it's really needed, but the rest are using it as a tool to their advantage.

In the process, they conviently trick people into debating about the wrong issue.
 
2005-06-22 6:07:56 PM  
I guess it's no surprise that they want to ban protest, considering the current group in the house, senate, and the White House.
 
2005-06-22 6:08:17 PM  
"The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

Wouldn't that open the door for laws of publishing pictures of it like Driving Without Pants just did?
 
2005-06-22 6:08:20 PM  
ArbitraryConstant writes:

Santos L. Halper: "Count me as one republican who thinks we don't need this amendment."

That makes you a democrat or worse by the current standards of the country.


No need to insult the man.

Count me in as someone who gets accused of being a Conservative/Neocon/Republican/Nazi/Right Wing Extremist and doesn't think we need this amendment.

People abroad who burn the U.S. flag will continue to do so regardless. People in the U.S. who would burn the flag will most likely burn it anyway, and even if they don't, they'll find something else to burn that is a symbol that shouldn't see a torch.

In this specific case, it would be far more effective to concentrate on changing minds, not trying to legislative proper behavior.

--h
 
2005-06-22 6:08:53 PM  
Driving Without Pants:

Best jab at Manson, ever, comes from an episode of Mr. Show titled "Patriotism, Pepper, and Professionalism."

Heh, heh. In the DVD commentary David Cross said some of the extras they hired for that skit were so offended/grossed out by the bloody diaper bit that they walked out. That made it twice as funny for me.
 
2005-06-22 6:11:05 PM  
So when does the Senate vote on this?
 
2005-06-22 6:11:40 PM  
Speaking of flag burning did anyone see the Daily Show (last night?) where he was holding a sparkler in one hand and a flag in the other. During the script he had to reach to his wallet so he puts both the flag and the sparkler in the same hand.

Comedy gold.
 
2005-06-22 6:13:03 PM  
Mac will be getting a call from me that's for goddamn sure.
 
2005-06-22 6:13:22 PM  
Seth_J

when you arent stealing money from my pocket to buy votes when you're done being a selfish bastard and realize that keeping the poor from being destitute helps the entire economy including your own pocket book more than it costs to keep them from being destitute then open your mouth - until then STFU
 
2005-06-22 6:14:55 PM  
We should make our flags out of fire.

Who would burn a flag made out of fire? It would be an empty gesture.
 
2005-06-22 6:15:38 PM  
"No one ever died for a flag. A flag is a piece of cloth. They might have died for freedom, which is also of course the freedom to burn the farking flag."

-Bill Hicks

/Seems to always ring true in my ears.
 
2005-06-22 6:16:06 PM  
This is nothing more than sleight-of-hand. They take away our liberties with one hand while they distract us with the nice colorful flag in the other, saying they are protecting what America stands for. Classic misdirection.

I don't give a fark about people that want to burn the American flag. I will protect their right to do it however just as fervently as I protect my right to ignore them. What really ticks me off is companies/people that fly tattered American flags. Presumably you're flying the flag to show respect, but a damaged flag is like a b*tch-slap to the face.

/Ignore the man behind the flag.
 
2005-06-22 6:16:35 PM  
Seth_J: Comedy gold.

I did. Laughed my arse off, that was funny.
 
2005-06-22 6:17:05 PM  
Kazan:

when you're done being a selfish bastard and realize that keeping the poor from being destitute helps the entire economy including your own pocket book more than it costs to keep them from being destitute then open your mouth - until then STFU

Some people. Sheeesh.

/there are other ways of helping the poor that do not involve using the force power of government - government is not always the answer.
 
2005-06-22 6:17:43 PM  
Seth_J: government is not always the answer.

Conversely, it's not always NOT the answer.

/swords cut both ways, just like ideologies
 
2005-06-22 6:19:05 PM  
tallguywithglasseson:

We should make our flags out of fire.

Who would burn a flag made out of fire? It would be an empty gesture.


Holy shiat thats a good idea! Think about how badass we would be if we had 'fire' flags. Nobody would fark with us!
 
2005-06-22 6:19:48 PM  
Oh, so THIS is where the flamewar is?

*dons asbetos suit*
 
2005-06-22 6:21:34 PM  
Seth_J:

"Holy shiat thats a good idea! Think about how badass we would be if we had 'fire' flags. Nobody would fark with us!"

You could put them out...
 
2005-06-22 6:21:55 PM  
Cyclometh

Conversely, it's not always NOT the answer.


On the other hand, it's sometimes not always NOT not the wrong answer.

Wait, what?
 
2005-06-22 6:22:52 PM  
tallguywithglasseson: We should make our flags out of fire.

Who would burn a flag made out of fire? It would be an empty gesture


But then you get to listen to all of those, "Don't soak my flag!" idiots.
 
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