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(Denver Channel)   Fifth-grade teacher dismayed to discover that her effective method of keeping students quiet it actually not sanctioned by the school   ( divider line
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52213 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2005 at 10:23 AM (12 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2005-05-15 02:19:23 PM  
No one is to be respected without first earning the respect.

I guess the 8 years of schooling amounts to nothing. Maybe I'll go down to the street corner and pick me up one of them "teachin' certificates!"

If you give people respect just because of their titles or positions, you might as well dump your brain in the nearest waste basket.

Yeah, fark 'dat Nelson Mandela. What he ever dun for me?

dead serious. thats ompletely inappropriate and shame on anyone that thinks this was even remotely accepable.

Hey, your kids called from jail. They told me to tell you to go fark yourself. If parents can't discipline their children enough to behave in school, somebody has to teach the little heathens.

Lemme put it another way: It's completely inappropriate for your little bastard to disrupt my child's education that I paid for with my tax dollars just because you can't seem to teach them how to behave in civilized society.

In this case, it's the lazy way out for a teacher who doesn't understand any kind of discipline other than the kind based on authority and fear of punishment.

No, the lazy way out would be to kick the kid out of class, or school entirely. Unfortunately, breeders get all in a huff when their little angel is told their a fark-up. These days, teachers are actively discouraged from kicking kids out of class, which is a shame.

Knowing when to not go over the line is an important one. Now the kid has learned in one area at least where the line is.

No, that kid is going to be the friggin' class hero because he got his teacher fired. Which is great positive reinforcement for further bad behavior.
2005-05-15 02:20:08 PM  

The problem with the send them home thing is that most school districts wont do that now. Suspension and expulsion are seldom if ever invoked. If any of the three are used its generally law suit time and school districts will usually cave to the suit. If its the odd district that doesnt cave you wind up with a typical lame jury that does the "ooh poor kid" instead of looking at the facts.
2005-05-15 02:22:02 PM  
It's too bad that the teacher felt he had to resort to this to get the child's attention. The problem with today's schools is that all of the power has been taken away from them. If a teacher or principal so much as looks at a kid cross-eyed, the parents are screaming, "Lawsuit." When I was in school, we had a healthy respect for the principal because he could give us a few swats on the butt if we so deserved it. It kept the great majority of us kids in line- he didn't have to spank us. We send our children to school for 8+ hours every day. The teachers need to have some way to control unruly students...not by beating them, but being able to have some consistent consequences for bad behavior.

/just my 2 cents
2005-05-15 02:27:15 PM  
not the best way to handle the situation..but the teacher shouldnt get in trouble for it.

any of you tards that think the teacher should fry for this should trade places with a teacher for a while.. then tell me how you feel about it.

/been there done that
2005-05-15 02:27:37 PM  
Never heard of Monty Python??? No wonder you kids are all screwed up!!

Walk, no run to your nearest Blockbuster and rent "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". Watch it and your soul will be saved.
2005-05-15 02:27:50 PM  
Im in favor of a quick pop to the back of the head of a little brat if they deserve it. But it has to be quick to express a point.

Spanking is something else though.

Spanking as a whole does little good. It just makes kids enjoy doing bad things more because the bad thing has an element of danger to it.

I can say though... spanking or not spanking is not a big deal. Possitive reinforcement and esteem carry alot of weight that wont show itself unitl later in the childs life.
2005-05-15 02:28:24 PM  
civildisobedient: Yeah, fark 'dat Nelson Mandela. What he ever dun for me?

So, now you're comparing this teacher to Nelson Mandela.

Hyperbole much?
2005-05-15 02:29:07 PM  

Seems no-one else is going to say it, so...


(Not the Italian bandit kind of "bravo", you know; the other one.)
2005-05-15 02:30:57 PM  
budboomer: Never heard of Monty Python???

Wow. Would you get the joke if I just called myself "The Castle Anthrax?"
2005-05-15 02:31:42 PM  

"The Larch" is a line from a Monty Python tree-identifying sketch. He's making a joke (I hope).
2005-05-15 02:33:29 PM  
D'oh ... too slow, yet again, Rupert
2005-05-15 02:36:48 PM  
I like to think I would have found another way to get my point across but he did what he did. He needs to find a new career but I gave him a "B" for his effort in doing the parent's job of teaching the child how to behave in school. The most important question to me though is is the kid still misbehaving in class. Did the ends justify the means?
2005-05-15 02:38:15 PM  

You think a few pieces of paper entitle you to respect? Ohh boy. Think those pieces of paper actually mean anything? Want a buck fifty so you can buy some coffee? As for Nelson Mandela he has never lashed out at anyone, has no emnity towards those he'd easily be justified in having emnity for, claimed no place of standing while in his years in prison. He didn't need to the president of the local seniors club to be respected. He was respected long before he had a nice offical title and position. Sitting in a prison cell he was worthier of respect than anyone hanging around the halls of Congress.

And as for bad kids, kindly go take care of a few, odds are kids with problems need someone to help out, or STFU. Funny my tax dollars pay for kids in schools too, and I don't even have any kids. But if I come across a kid that needs help, and I have, I help them out. Yeah some kids have bad parents, it's not their fault it's their lot in life. But it is your fault for not doing anything to help them.
2005-05-15 02:42:53 PM  
Actually, do you know what might work? I've just had a thought...

On Monday, put on some black pants, black shoes, and a white t-shirt. On your t-shirt spray paint the words "The Future" on it. Then at three-thirty when school lets out; stand outside the school grounds. Put on a nice black ski mask. Then when you see some skater, hip-hop, wanna-be kid walkin up, run out and grab him. Shake him up a bit (Make sure he gets a good look at your shirt) and tell him that at some time, some where you're gonna find him again and beat the living hell out of him.

Later he will go home to his father looking pale and nervous. His father will look up from rolling his own cigs or wrasslin with the dog and ask him what's up. The boy with a pained look in his eyes will say...

"I think the future's gonna kick my ass..."

Then the father will say something he's never said before, he'll say...

"Well then boy, better prepare for it and go do some homework."

And there you have it, we've just balanced out the equation.
2005-05-15 02:43:04 PM  
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, cargrrl82, but that a whole different flame war, which I will reserve for another day.

Why don't we start with the premise that EVERYBODY is worthy or respect until they PROVE THEMSELVES OTHERWISE? Kinda like the "innocence" thing, hey?
2005-05-15 02:45:07 PM  
maybe we could use michael jackson as means of punishment

"Jimmy, STFU and sit down right this instant or Jacko will molest you!"

'....yes maam' *sits down and shuts up*

"OK, back to the lesson at hand..."
2005-05-15 02:47:48 PM  
Yea, but what else floats in water?
2005-05-15 02:50:08 PM  

Try not mixing scenarios. The woman working two jobs and commuting like crazy likely isn't watching survivor. The one worried abotu survivor likely doesn't have two jobs. Two seperate scenarios. In the first case anyone who isn't empathetic needs a swift slap upsides the head. In the second case, anyone who rolls their eyes, scoffs or does nothing needs ditto.

Also sometimes the kids that behave the worst out of the home are the ones that get all the wrong attention ie physical and/or verbal abuse, at home. In other words, it's not their parents don't do anything, they do entirely too much, and of the wrong thing at that. There's no lack of doing, there's too much. And those parents can be tougher nuts to crack than inactive parents. After all, you get a hint little Johnny gets the crap beat out of him at home, you really want to be calling in the parents just so he gets it ten times worse? Then there's the cases of where the only attention is abuse. So if the kid isn't getting beat they're getting nothing. Wether it's a kid getting no attention, only abusive attention or abusive attention plus what amounts to a constant boot camp mentality, there's a hell of an issue to deal with.

And thinking lawsuits are only an issue with schools, go ask a few doctors about lawsuits. I'd dare say more lawsuits that are against schools are meritorious than those brought against doctors. When a school treats special ed kids as lost causes and treats them like crap and no one wants to fix the issue, the school district pretty well has earned being sued. If a school refuses to do anything about bullying and a kid gets a few broken bones? Yep, it might as well just pull out a check and fill it out. Funny thing is about bullies, they're usually not the one misbehaving in class. Though would be safe to say that in bad cases they are a greater detriment at schools than those who are disruptive in class.
2005-05-15 02:56:31 PM  
The Larch

Ever since they got rid of the analogies section on the SAT, it appears that the youngin's are oblivious to their use. To whit: many people deserve our respect despite never having "earned it" directly from us. Like teachers.


That "piece of paper" isn't just dead trees, dummy. It's a commitment of time, money, and energy. That someone would spend 8 years of their life getting it, sink themselves many thousands of dollars in the debt hole, and all just to be paid fastfood wages while facing the derision and revilement of the very objects of their efforts deserves our farking respect. You clearly cannot concieve of the sacrifice necessary to be a teacher, which is why you have no respect for them.

But it is your fault for not doing anything to help them.

Hey, that teacher tried to help him. You try pulling your arrogant "I'm the only person who matters" shiat in the real world, you get more than duct tape around your mouth. Lemme guess: your definition of help == hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
2005-05-15 02:57:32 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

2005-05-15 02:57:57 PM  
Rupert Birkin

Hey that respect thing works. Assuming you don't forget to have it going in all directions. But for too many the thing is that teachers are just to be respected as is while students are to somehow earn it or not even part of the equation. A teacher that doesn't respect their students, isn't much worth respecting.
2005-05-15 03:00:34 PM  
had a teacher once who'd wing a chalk eraser full speed at a kid's head and always hit it cause the kid was yakking and not even looking at the teacher -- gave a whole new meaning to not paying attention. Quite a popular teacher too--and he'd go right back to his lecture.
2005-05-15 03:02:55 PM  

To answer your question, yes, my pieces of paper (2 B.As, 1 Masters and 2 teaching certificates) *do* entitle me to some respect from the kids I teach. They show that I have worked to become someone who is qualified to teach them.

The first thing I explain to my students is that we are *all* worthy of respect until proven otherwise, but that not everybody gets the same kind of respect. In other words, while I will give my students the respect they deserve as human beings, I will not give them the same kind of respect I give my peers, superiors, etc. The root of the problem is that kids often think that they are entitled to the same respect as adults, professionals, etc. Sorry, nope. Adults deserve a modicum of respect for their life experience coontil proven otherwise) and professionals do because of their practical experience.

And the Mandela comparison is a strawman argument. He is given respect because of his experiences and actions, just as many adults & others should be as well. I respect anyone who has survived on this rock and come through okay. Kids should too, instead of often expressing contempt for their elders.

Just so you know, I have worked with the disadvantaged pretty much since I was 18 (I'm 31 now). I teach in a district where the majority of the kids come from poor, single parent homes, with rampant gang and drug activity. I work my butt off to try and give hope to these kids. And sometimes, all I get is grief for my efforts. So be it. I keep trying.

And those 'pieces of paper' helped me prepare for this job and it's problems. So I *do* deserve respect for what I have done and what they represent. Your attitude towards all of this is a wonderful indicator of the escalating contempt for education in this country.

Do me a favor; go get an emergency teaching certification somewhere and show all of us who seem to be unable how to really do it.

'Til then, your arguments are petty and childish.

Oh, BTW, I have had multiple students question Mandela's importance. One said, "What's the big deal? My Daddy and four of my uncles are in prison. Mandela ain't nothin' special!"
2005-05-15 03:04:06 PM  
civildisobedient: [lame defense of incoherent post that claimed we should respect teachers for the same reason we respect Nelson Mandela... their title and position.]
2005-05-15 03:05:43 PM  
Hey, if you're going to get charged with child abuse for this, might as well cop a feel of the little bugger while you're at it. Same punishment, right?
2005-05-15 03:09:50 PM  
2005-05-15 03:02:55 PM Kell Hound [TotalFark]

The first thing I explain to my students is that we are *all* worthy of respect until proven otherwise, but that not everybody gets the same kind of respect. In other words...

You know, you could have just summed up that entire post by saying "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others."

2005-05-15 03:12:10 PM  

Ever taken a kid with nowhere to go and given them a place to go and a way to make something of themselves? If not, I'd kindly request you refrain from further dumping on kids stuck in situations they have no say in. See those kids with the bad parents, they have nowhere to go and it isn't up to them to ask for help, certainly not between the ages of 5 and 11 or 12, even 13. But look down at that kid, and once a few years pass and it really hits them as to what hand they were dealt and that the people around them never so much as offered to listen? You've got a whole new set of issues, which you won't do a lick to take care of. Sure it's fine to put your kid first, inexcusable not to, but it is also inexusable to simply push kids aside to suffer for that which is neither their fault nor within their capability to resolve.
2005-05-15 03:19:35 PM  

Oh I have respect for teachers, some anyways. The ones who actually are concerned about their students beyond grades and test scores. The ones who wish they could replicate themselves, just so they could teach more kids. Those who actually get what teaching is and don't try to act like it's a nine to five job. Good teachers regard work like doctors do, they're never not what they are. Sure there may be some set hours marked on a piece of paper, but they don't bet on working those hours day after day. And they sure as hell don't play martyr.
2005-05-15 03:23:29 PM  
Sister Mary Elephant?

/Cheech and Chong. Way back.
2005-05-15 03:26:21 PM  
Should have sent him to the office so the police could have come and handcuffed him. Isn't that all the rage lately?
2005-05-15 03:30:07 PM  
>> Should have sent him to the office so the police could have
>> come and handcuffed him. Isn't that all the rage lately?

Sweet jesus, don't forget the tasering, you goddamned hippie!
2005-05-15 04:00:33 PM  
If not, I'd kindly request you refrain from further dumping on kids stuck in situations they have no say in.

My credentials: English teacher, East Boston HS (not Lean on Me ghetto, but close enough). In my experience, the Latino kids were the hardest working students, yet came from the most impovershed backgrounds. So please spare me the "poor, sad existance" excuse. Of course, their parents were 10x better than the white parents, who would often call to complain about the excessive amounts of homework assigned to them. "Johnny can't do all this work and be expected to be a football star!"
2005-05-15 04:03:30 PM  
I wasn't very clear with my post I realized. The argument I was making was that, at one time, skin color was looked at as important. It's that racism of many generations ago that has spawned these cultures which adhere to the racial stereotypes. I was basically saying that we can still see the effects of racism even though there is a lot less than there once was, because now it's almost applicable.

Don't get me wrong, though, I don't like racism and cannot stand seeing/hearing it.
2005-05-15 04:23:49 PM  
Kell Hound:
"And those 'pieces of paper' helped me prepare for this job and it's problems."

You make excellent points in your posts. I am, however, forced to deduct points for incorrect punctuation.

it's = contraction of it is
its = possessive form of it

Likewise, beginning a sentence with a conjunction is generally considered bad form, although as grammatical standards continue their seemingly-relentless decline, this usage is, regrettably, becoming more acceptable.

These are very small criticisms of your otherwise-excellent posts. Keep up the good work!


/been wanting to do something like this for a very long time
2005-05-15 04:46:17 PM  
Go teacher go - discipline in schools is so pathetic now that this story actually seems refreshing.
2005-05-15 05:15:25 PM  
"Oh I have respect for teachers, some anyways. The ones who actually are concerned about their students beyond grades and test scores. The ones who wish they could replicate themselves, just so they could teach more kids. Those who actually get what teaching is and don't try to act like it's a nine to five job. Good teachers regard work like doctors do, they're never not what they are. Sure there may be some set hours marked on a piece of paper, but they don't bet on working those hours day after day. And they sure as hell don't play martyr."

"In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for the embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple... we will organize children... and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way..."
2005-05-15 05:18:55 PM  
What's the difference between a teacher and a toxic waste handler?

Not much.
2005-05-15 05:23:06 PM  

Today's kids are different. They suck. They are the most spoiled, rude, inconsiderate little bastards ever. Now I know kids are kids, but today the parents aren't parenting (parents need to hit their kids). Something tells me the kid really did deserve tape around his mouth. I don't think it's a terrible thing to do, maybe I know how annoying and loud and demanding a little shiat kid is...

2005-05-15 05:56:11 PM  
nelson mandela was a farkin terrorist?!?!?!

oh lord.
2005-05-15 06:14:12 PM  
If the following summary, written by Artic Wolf, isnt one of the most insightful comments on contemporary American society well, then I dont know what is. Wow! Nicely done.

And I quote:

We are animals forced to walk as men. Our instincts and lusts and inbred curiosities and needs are all molded and shaped through hard work and discipline to create the people we are today. Children are animals that have no conscience. They simply exist on impulse and desire. And like any unintelligent animal pain is the only thing that creates respect for others.

We took the power of pain away from the parents; we took the power of pain away from the teachers. What we are left with is a growing society of animals.

For God sake's people. When your child needs it, beat them!
2005-05-15 06:17:09 PM  
im for the teacher, the kid needed to stfu
2005-05-15 06:35:18 PM  
wonderteet: nelson mandela was a farkin terrorist?!?!?!

I can't say I know much about the guy. But, he was a violent, armed, soviet trained revolutionary. He didn't go to prison for picking daisies, and the west had good reason for being reluctant to support him.

The phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is just meaningless pap. There's some truth there. (Of course, the type of target matters, and I have no idea what type of targets Mandela and his cohorts hit).
2005-05-15 06:36:05 PM  
is just meaningless => isn't just meaningless
2005-05-15 06:51:52 PM  
Nelson Mandela's Wikipedia entry:

Edumacate yourself, then decide.

/excessive faith in fellow farkers
2005-05-15 07:10:23 PM  
Calling Jesse Jackson. Calling Jesse Jackson. One of your homies needs your help in Denver. Please rush for an immediate photo op.

Crackhead mommas drop their snot nosed brats off at school and expect the school to babysit them, then whine when discipline is applied. I pity teachers today. The article didn't say what the kid did - that would require some work on the part of the reporter. but I imagine he was told to STFU at least once and probably badmouther the teacher. I say equip the teachers with Tasers and let them fire at will. Giving couple punks 20,000 volts (or whatever it is) will have a remarkably calming influence on the rest of the student population.
2005-05-15 07:40:04 PM  
"It's inexcusable," she said.

Does that mean no remuneration?
Kill her!
2005-05-15 07:43:17 PM  
unacceptable, of course, but funny nonetheless.
2005-05-15 07:43:26 PM  
raging lahar

should be "Hero"

Damn straight
2005-05-15 07:45:22 PM  
. . . after the mother of a fifth grader reported that the teacher taped their son's mouth shut.

Geez did the journalist even attend basic grammar class? HER son's mouth!

/stopped reading there because of stupid grammar
2005-05-15 07:53:01 PM  

'their' is perfectly acceptable in this statement. Journalism is moving towards erring on the side of gender neutral pronouns these days.

Of course, it implies that the son was the mother's and teacher's.
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