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(some girl)   Can a light saber cut through adamantium? Discuss   ( divider line
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30091 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2005 at 9:17 AM (18 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook

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2005-03-18 5:12:37 PM  
someguy: Doesn't say one thousand generations of what. Could be a thousand generations of Fruit Flies.

Well, that would be in keeping with Kenobi's general level of deceptiveness with Luke.

"What I told you was true...from a certain point of view. Really, it depends on what you definition of 'is' is. Ignore that man behind the curtain!"
2005-03-18 5:15:55 PM  
Alien vs. Predator
by Christopher Monks, reprinted without permission

Kickboxing: Alien
Greco-Roman Wrestling: Alien
100-Meter Dash: Alien
Pole Vault: Alien
Backgammon: Predator
Driving: Alien
Baking: Predator
Low-Impact Aerobics: Predator
Break Dancing: Alien
Folk-Music Trivia: Predator
Snowboarding: Alien
Tobogganing: Predator
Doom 3: Alien
MS Excel: Predator
Sestinas: Predator
Limericks: Alien
Earth Science: Predator
Phys Ed: Alien
Plate-Spinning: N/A
Macram: Predator
Competitive Hot-Dog Eating: Alien
Gardening (Organic): Predator
Lincoln-Douglas Debating: Predator
Tangrams: Predator
Wet T-Shirt Contest: Alien
Mechanical Bull: Alien
Electric Bass: Alien
Pennywhistle: Predator
Babysitting: Push
2005-03-18 5:27:32 PM  

I think the book you are talking about is "I, Jedi" by Stackpole.

/hangs head in shame.
2005-03-18 5:29:41 PM  
So for those of you being jerks about this thread... answer me this:

Who's a bigger loser, those who debate passionatly about a subject their interested in or those who deliberatly go to a thread they know will be filled with nerds to mock them?
2005-03-18 5:30:20 PM  

Adamantium's indestructible once it's become a solid, and once a solid can never leave the solid state again.

Thus a lightsabre could neither cut through nor melt adamantium. It could sure as hell heat it up real good though.
2005-03-18 5:36:32 PM  
leareth: Who's a bigger loser, those who debate passionatly about a subject their interested in or those who deliberatly go to a thread they know will be filled with nerds to mock them?

So, in other words you are saying, "Who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool who follows him?"

Dang. I really need to find a girlfriend, don't I?
2005-03-18 5:50:16 PM  
Could a lightsabre be used underwater?

/no clue
2005-03-18 5:53:40 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2005-03-18 5:54:13 PM  
On the Superman discussion: which Superman? Superman's abilities and even basic aspects of his origin and career have changed numerous times in his decades-long history.

The original Superman was a villain, a deadly enemy to mankind. That Superman never saw print, but appeared only in comic strips that Siegel and Shuster tried to sell for newspaper syndication, without success.

The original published Superman first appeared in Action Comics #1 by National Comics, now DC. Later, he and the other Golden Age heroes were retconned to exist on Earth-two, which in turn was made retroactively non-existent in the Crisis on Infinite Earths (more on that later). Those Golden Age heroes who did not have Silver Age versions with the same identity (like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman, but unlike Green Lantern or the Flash) were made into older versions of modern heroes.

The Earth-two / Golden Age Superman could not fly (could only "leap tall buildings at a single bound" - later specified to be able to leap an eighth of a mile), had only limited invulnerability ("nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin!"), had no vision powers, etc., at least at first. He became more and more powerful as the series progressed, and new powers and other plot elements (such as Kryptonite) were added in the radio and movie serials and TV series and Fleischer cartoons and then incorporated back into the comics.

His powers were explained because Kryptonians were more physically evolved and had a more advanced "physical structure" than Earth humans. This means that the Kryptonians had those abilities even while still on Krypton. It obviously wasn't enough to save them from an exploding planet.

So, yes, adamantium or lightsabres would easily kill the original Golden-Age aka Earth-two Superman.

The Silver-Age Superman (Earth-one, 1960s through early 1980s) was ridiculously powerful. During this period, the yellow sun / red sun thing was used to explain pretty much all of his powers other than sheer super-strength, which was a result of the gravity difference (Krypton was basically a solid version of a gas giant, far more massive than Jupiter). Exposure to even a single photon of yellow sunlight was sufficient to give any matter from Krypton (other than Kryptonite, which was altered by the radiation of the explosion of Krypton) absolutely total indestructability. Furthermore, the sun-derived powers would last until exposure to red sunlight, which would instantly nullify them. Once the red sunlight was removed, even if more yellow sunlight wasn't supplied, those abilities would return full-force, instantly.

Adamantium or a lightsabre couldn't even penetrate one sheet of sopping-wet one-ply Kryptonian toilet paper (a single layer of which could also be used to wrap a hydrogen bomb, and would then contain the explosion, heat, and radiation when the bomb was detonated!), let alone Kryptonian matter as thick as, say, Superman's torso.

The modern Superman is somewhere in-between, and it varies depending on the writer. John Byrne, creator of the post-Crisis Superman, established that the invulnerability is actually a psychic telekinetic force-field, not super-dense material makeup or molecular bonds. Likewise, his flight ability is telekinetic in nature, affecting himself and anything he touches.

This has not been shown to be the case by later writers, though, and that explanation has since been used for Superboy's powers (note that the modern Superboy is not "Superman when he was a boy," but is a teenaged clone made from human DNA altered to resemble Superman's much more complex Kryptonian DNA). Superboy has powers that at first seem similar to Superman's non-vision and non-hearing powers, but they are all actually aspects of "tactile telekinesis." He is physically no stronger than a normal teenager, but he can lift any weight and punch through most any substance because he is actually telekinetically lifting or damaging the substance. This power works on a subconscious level, so bullets bounce off of him by reflex action: as soon as a bullet touches his skin or clothing, his tactile telekinesis kicks in and alters its path.

Both Byrne and later writers did make the case that yellow sunlight is responsible for Superman&rsqou;s powers, but because his cells act as "solar batteries." In other words, ordinary inanimate Kryptonian matter is not affected. Furthermore, it took years of yellow sun exposure of his cells for even the first powers (limited invulnerability) to manifest. Red sunlight does nothing, but the sustained absence of yellow sunlight while the powers are being actively used, thus draining the "batteries" will cause his powers to diminish and finally fade out. It then takes some time under a yellow sun to recharge him back to full power (this is usually speeded up by having him be closer to the sun, or having a solar-powered hero such as the Will Payton Starman lend a hand). Kryptonite works at least partly by forcing the stored yellow sunlight energy out of his cells.

So, could adamantium and/or a lightsabre hurt or kill the current Superman? Dunno. Depeneds on the writer, I guess.
2005-03-18 5:57:18 PM  
If Magneto can control magnetic fields, doesn't that mean he can also control electric fields, just through Maxwell's Equations of electrodynamics? i.e. Ampere and Faraday's laws.
2005-03-18 5:59:23 PM  
Captain Irreverence:

In ANH, Ben Kenobi says "For a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times...before the Empire..."

1000 generations > 1000 years.


/Goes back to rewatch all 5 movies and then play KOTOR all over again
2005-03-18 6:03:32 PM  
A lightsaber can deflect laser blasters because it is surrounded by plasma (that's the glowing blade of the saber). Plasma is perfectly reflective to light (lasers) since no electromagnetic waves are allowed inside the plasma.
2005-03-18 6:12:28 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2005-03-18 6:25:04 PM  
Ninetynine, I'm ashamed to say that I've actually read, and remember, the story that that cover is from. Superman finds himself in what he first believes is an alternate universe in which everyone has switched genders (Superwoman, Superboy [opposite of Supergirl], and Wonder Man are shown on the cover). In that universe, Superman exists as a villain. Lois Lane is Lawrence Lane, Jimmy Olsen is Janey Olsen, Clark Kent is Clarence Kent, and so on.

Two hints lead Superman to realize that all is not as it appears to be. First off, Clarence Kent is not Superwoman, as both are seen at the same time. Secondly, in Superwoman's Fortress of Solitude, all of Superwoman's foes are seen and all but one have reversed genders as she does: Alexis (or was it Alexandra or Alexandria?) Luthor, etc.

The one exception is Mr. Mxyzptlk. The whole thing turns out to be one of his pranks. He didn't reverse his own gender out of pride, and he didn't have Clarence Kent be Superwoman because (this was in the Silver Age pre-Crisis Earth-one continnuity) he himself didn't know Superman's secret identity, so he didn't know to do that. Superman of course tricks Mxy into saying or spelling his name backwards yet again, and everything is back to normal - for another ninety days, at least.
2005-03-18 6:38:15 PM  
Kangaroo_Ralph: I put that Specter series up there as one of the greatest, most consistant comics runs ever, with Preacher and Sandman. None of them can compare to Starman, though.

Master of the Flying Guillotine: Jack Knight is da man.

And any other fans of Starman - what do you think of the Will Payton Starman as a character? The reason I ask is that, long before Robinson's Starman was even announced, but after Will's heroic "death" in Eclipso: The Darkness Within #2, I wrote a fanfic that had Will as the PoV character to explain inconsistencies in the afterlife of the DC Universe, and also fix the mess made of Armageddon: 2001. Had that story actually been done by D.C., the Robinson Starman series would've been quite different.

Oh, and ninety-nine, I meant Clara Kent, not Clarence. Ack! I'm gettin' old!

So, seen Max, Laraby, or the Chief around lately? :-)
2005-03-18 6:41:17 PM  
loooooook....i am your father, superman....
2005-03-18 6:46:59 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2005-03-18 7:01:39 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2005-03-18 7:01:49 PM  

Both Lightsabers and Adamantium are way over-rated. Lightsabers can be blocked by certain materials that have a dense atomic structure, and Adamantium can be affected my high powered magnetic fields or the force of an atomic bomb blast (or in some cases a really pissed off Hulk with his strength raised to the max).

Adamantium has a dense atomic struture and can withstand lasers, and other energy weapons of lesser power than a nuclear explosion. I am guessing that Lightsabers have lower power than a nuclear explosion, otherwise there would not be material that can block it (fission reactions can split atoms, very strong force there).

So I am ruling that a Lightsaber cannot cut through Adamantium; however, Adamantium can be pushed by The Force or Telekinesis or Magnetic Fields.

Wolverine verses a Jedi is another matter. Keep in mind that officially Wolverine is over 100 years old (Born at the end of the 19th century in Canada) and has at least 80 years worth of unarmed and armed combat skills ranging from Ninjitsu, to Military style, to Mutant Training, not to mention stealth and animal scenses, and in case of an emergancy a bezerker rage. A Jedi has Jedi training, can fight using The Force or a Lightsaber.

As to who wins, it depends on the situation. If in a jungle, and visibility is hard to see, Wolverine can launch attacks on the Jedi, use Stealth to hide, use Xavier's training to cloud his mind so the Jedi cannot detect it (Wolverine has training to deal with telepaths and other mind readers), and strike out every once in a while, and let his healing factor heal any wounds he receives. Eventually the Jedi is taking more damage and Wolverine keeps healing from the Jedi's attacks. Someone with the power of Darth Vader may be able to beat Wolverine, others, I am not so sure.

Superman, well Doomsday killed him and had hurt Superman using the bones growing out of his skin. They ended up killing each other. So Superman can be hurt. Now Doomsday has Kryptionian Origins. Someone with enough strength or power can damage Superman's skin or double-talk body aura. Superman was harmed by Captain Marvel's magic lightning, so a battle with Thor would have Thor using his magic hammer to keep summoning lightning until Superman falls. Superman's fighting skills are pathetic, while Thor's fighting skills have been honed over thousands of years. Superman relies on his strength to make up for the fact that Superman fights like someone's butler. Winner, Thor and his magic hammer.

Batman, can take anyone on depending on what wonderful toys he designed to neutralize his enemy's powers. Batman's martial arts skills are about the best on Earth. Captain America would be easily beaten by Batman, Batman would find a way to use that Adamantium sheild against Captain America, or trap it in an energy field and then go hand-to-hand with Captain America, proving that Batman has the better fighting skills.
2005-03-18 7:02:57 PM  
But the falling lightsaber would have a certain amount of momentum, which would continue to carry it through toware the opposite side, slowed down by friction of course, until it came to a stop somewhere between the center and the surface (the exact stopping point depending on the speed at which the lightsaber is falling, the density and hardness of the planet, and the density of the planet's atmosphere), then it would begin "falling" back toward the center of the planet. So, yes, it would eventually come to rest in the center of the planet, but would cut the other side of the planet first.

But you have to remember that lightsabres don't cut through everything instantaneously. Remember when Qui Gon Jin was trying to cut through that metal door in Episode 1? He didn't even have time to finish, indicating a massive amount of resistance and friction. A planet's mantle isn't as tough to cut through, but it's still a huge resistance. I don't think the lightsabre would cut very far into even the outer core (or its non-earth equivalent) after passing through the center.
2005-03-18 7:28:11 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

A lightsaber in the water? Im guessing not.
2005-03-18 7:49:09 PM  
Valacirca beats out everyone else with the Adamantoise reference.
2005-03-18 8:10:17 PM  
A lightsaber in the water? Im guessing not.

In the "Clone Wars" cartoon thing on Cartoon Network there was a short dedicated to Kit Fisto and he used his lightsaber underwater. Just thought I'd toss that out there...
2005-03-18 8:43:04 PM  
Adamant ==> a mythological substance that is extremely hard or unbreakable

Adamantine ==> Something made of adamant

Adamantium ==> ??????????
2005-03-18 8:43:48 PM  

In the SW universe, there's an element called "cortosis" that is lightsaber-proof. Also, the shields of a destroyer droid resist the lightsaber blade.

I would guess that adamantium is the cortosis of the Marvel universe.

So the answer is no.
2005-03-18 8:49:54 PM  
I'd have to say, yes but very slowly, but what about tri-tanium?
/old school star trek ref
2005-03-18 8:54:04 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

This one time, at band camp, I stuck a light saber up my adamantium pussy.
2005-03-18 8:54:21 PM  
pretendium rules all!!
2005-03-18 8:57:44 PM  
Kit Fisto's lightsaber is unique. He made it specially to work in water, but most lightsabers can't. They short out.
2005-03-18 9:01:30 PM  
Oh, and Superman would turn away adamantium. That's been established already in the comics (crossovers and such). The thing is that his invulnerability is the result of a VERY CLOSE personal force field. No matter how fast or hard it hit, it wouldn't penetrate the energy field.

Only magic can do that.
2005-03-18 9:05:49 PM  
Cortosis IS canon. You may see it in episode III, but during the Clone Wars, Lucas has established that there ARE battledroids made with cortosis. I believe the super battle droids are partway made with the lightsaber-proof element.

Still looking...
2005-03-18 9:08:32 PM  
OK, here's one example:

21.2 BBY. Cortosis Battle droids.

Note that this is not in the EU section of the Databank, but in the Clone Wars section.

Therefore, cortosis is canon.

/And the geek shall inherit the earth!
2005-03-18 9:24:41 PM  
Not only can a light saber cut through any kind of metal, the resulting glowing molten slag can be inches from your hand and you will not get burned! Amazing!

/saw it in a movie once. A very bad movie.
2005-03-18 9:43:08 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

"What are you people, on dope?!?!?"
2005-03-18 9:54:34 PM  
im sorry but c'mon u call you selfs nerds, but u all know deep down in your hearts that the masters of all created fictional characters ever are most definatly the tiny creatures called the poke'man (or however it goes).

\not to big of a nerd
\\ok im lying
\\\'tis but a joke we all know jedi with lightsaber would win b/c wolverine is just a regular super hero who allways will have one weekness where as all jedi's have no weekness and pwn3z0r to teh MAX
2005-03-18 10:05:58 PM  
wow...I have never seen such a collection of virgins living in their parents basement all clustered in one blog in all my's amazing.

...and I rolled a 19 on the 20 sided die so my DM said I didn't need to read the thread.
2005-03-18 10:07:31 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

Nuff said.
2005-03-18 10:46:35 PM  
Not to mention that the slag would chill and basically weld the cut behind the saber, like when you cut with an oxyacetylene torch and you're not using enough gas.

That Jedi dude would get done with his cut and still have one piece of metal.
2005-03-18 10:51:13 PM  
But the really important question is who would win in a battle: The Hulk or Superman!
2005-03-18 11:05:31 PM  
Two Words: Ultimate Nullifier.

And I would use it too.

2005-03-18 11:15:56 PM  
As far as Hulk vs. Superman goes... this has been done several times already in the comics... I think the score is Superman wins one, and the Hulk and Superman draw twice... something like that.

Now I know Spiderman has kicked the Hulk's ass once... he was granted the power cosmic and punched Hulk into orbit... since Hulk doesn't have flight or life support, he basically spun around up there holding his breath until Spidey felt bad about it and rescued him.

/now what was the topic about again? oh yeah... I think wolvie vs. a Jedi would be a decent battle, both are superheroes, both have 'indestructable' weapons. Wolvie has fought worse and the Jedi's have some cool tricks so it'd be a writing game to decide it... story driven you know. Doubt that a lightsaber would cut through adamantium like butter... but it may scorch and sear it a bit... maybe.
2005-03-18 11:26:10 PM  
What if Super Man had the force and was trained by Mace Windu from birth. Could he beat Ash from Army of Darnkess, assuming Ash had his chain saw hand and not the metal fist one?
2005-03-19 12:16:51 AM  
I have nothing to contribute to this discussion except for a handful of pretty Alex Ross pictures.

[image from too old to be available][image from too old to be available][image from too old to be available][image from too old to be available][image from too old to be available]

Capt. Marvel in the last drawing (I wish I had a better scan of it) is the image I like most, both because that mystical glow effect works so well, and because of that indescrible expression he has (facial plus posture). I've never seen such a powerful conveyance of completely self-assured arrogance; it redefines the phrase.

BTW, among the things I like best about Dark Knight Returns (the pics above are from Kingdom Come, not DKR), is superman's speech as he's dying after the nuke (from the sun being cut off) and begs nature, whom he's always served, to save him (with the stored solar energy in plants, as I took it). And there's just nothing to be said about the final conflict.
2005-03-19 2:06:58 AM  
Great post
Love the geekiness
And Wolvies mind is so messed up from all the memory implants that it would be easy for a jedi to manipulate it.

//could either defeat a Darksteel Colossus.
2005-03-19 2:35:43 AM  
I have one thing to say here:


2005-03-19 2:55:21 AM  
When Frodo got stuck with the spear by the cave troll, why did the Mithil just not line the outside of the blade and pass through his body?

Because chain mail isn't sharp like the point of a spear is. That's the function of chainmail -- to turn a stabbing weapon into a poking one, or a slashing weapon into a bludgeoning one. It still hurts and leaves bruises, but it prevents the wearing from being cut or impaled.

Yes, but could a lightsaber or adamantium claws cut the ring? Could Frodo's quest be ended by a jedi?

If Gandalf could send eagles to bring Frodo and Sam back from Mount Doom, why couldn't he have sent them to carry Frodo and Sam to Mount Doom in the first place?

The ring needs to be destroyed by being thrown into the volcano at Mordor, not any volcano.

Yes, but specifically, because no other volcano is hot enough. Gandalf directly says it's a question of temperature.

Obscure challenge: in a hand to hand fight, who would win: James Kirk or James West?

How many gadgets does West have access to?

knows that Elric could make Drizzt his biatch

Elric would be too busy bemoaning his cruel fate to actually foght back. Now, maybe if it were a jedi weilding Mournblade, or if the various incarnations of the Eternal Champion were to do that trick where they all medld into a single body.... Y'know, I thought I saw Elric at a Cure concert once.

To respond to something said much earlier, lightsabers turn on and off with a button. No mystical force powers are needed to turn it on or off, anyone can weild one, even Han Solo, but a non-jedi trying to use one as a weapon is more likely to hurt himself than his opponent. However, I'm told that each jedi is supposed to build his own lightsaber, and some jedi choose to put the on/off button on the inside of the hilt, meaning that telekenetic force power must be used to reach the power button.

Supposedly this is to present the lightsaber from ever being used by a non-force sensitive. I guess it's sorta liek how cops' holsters are desigend to make it difficul for someone else to walk up and snatch the gun out of the cops holster.

Anyway, Superman is a dick.
2005-03-19 3:07:08 AM  
The real question is how that lightsaber would do against, say, a combat-stacked Dawn caste in an orichalcum warstrider with Heavenly Guardian Defense running...

Then again... I swear I saw a write-up on the wiki for a bladeless, Essence-powered daiklave, so we may yet find out. o_O
2005-03-19 3:21:02 AM  
How did this get approved? I am now legitimately afraid.
2005-03-19 3:29:39 AM  
No, a lightsber probably can't. There are several metals in the Star Wars universe that a lightsaber cannot slice through.

/damn pround to be a geek.
2005-03-19 3:33:02 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
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