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(some girl)   Can a light saber cut through adamantium? Discuss   ( divider line
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30090 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2005 at 9:17 AM (17 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook

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2005-03-18 11:43:40 AM  
[image from too old to be available]

Luke: So we'll just make a quick incision here, and . . .

Obi-Wan: Use the Force, Luke.

Luke: Really, but . . .

Obi-Wan: Just use the Force.

Luke: OK.

Woman: Arrrrrrggghh!!!

Luke: There, are you happy now?

Obi-Wan: I've never been happy.
2005-03-18 11:44:44 AM  
The Saint of Killers

Oooh... low blow. Bane out-cheated him, given, but in a different era when DC wasn't trying to make an epaulet wearing bad@$$ into its new Bats in order to compete with the machismo of Image, Bats would win. That was the 90s, a dark, nihilistic time for comicbookdom when editors wanted to be extreme to the max, max meaning maximum.
2005-03-18 11:45:51 AM  
A Jedi/Wolverine fight would probably go to the Jedi since the Jedi could probably remove all of Logan's tissue before his healing factor could compensate. I don't think he could live without organs or with a severed spinal cord.

Is this the Wolvie without an admantium skeleton or with? Because the adamantium skeleton would preclude the severed spinal cord. See Gray's Anatomy for location of the spinal cord inside the adamantium-encased spine.

/Of course, whacking the organs makes the argument moot.
2005-03-18 11:46:33 AM  
"But it kept Anakin's arse down on the ground in Episode II for a good 2-3 minutes. Granted, he's a pussy, but the point is it doesn't burn, it disables."

Obi-Wan received a single cut from Dookus sabre on the leg and was out of the fight for a long time as well. I doubt it's the Force lightning that is keeping them down but that they are in fact pansies.

Sides' Jedis don't regenerate...
2005-03-18 11:46:54 AM  
So is this Star Wars or Star Trek we're talking here?
2005-03-18 11:47:06 AM  
The Saint of Killers:

At last, we agree on something! Batman has devoted himself to several disciplines including criminology, escape artistry, running Wayne Enterprises, etc. Captain America knows nothing but combat. Batman may be willing to cheat, but Captain America is willing to kill and that's a far more effective way of winning a fight.

Cap is very limited on who he will kill. I think he killed Baron Blood and perhaps someone else, but that's about it.
2005-03-18 11:47:24 AM  
What is the Force considered? If it is some kind of mental power, then Wolverine has probably had enough shielding from mental attacks to stop it?

Judging from Vader's choke and the reaction in SW, I'd say it wasn't mental, rather physical.

Wolverine; "Took a point blank shot from Gauntlet, ribs shattered lung punctured, gimme sec for my healing factor to kick in.."

Did he actually say all that with shattered ribs and a punctured lung? Wow.
2005-03-18 11:47:26 AM  
Lest we all forget:

Wolverine had the adamantium torn from his bones by Magneto in the comics. The damage taht did to him almost killed him, and he reverted to a ferral beast for a time while he recovered.

/pwnage by Magneto
//pwned myself... i am a HUGE nerd.
2005-03-18 11:47:56 AM  
Superhuman powers
The Hulk possesses the capacity for virtually limitless physical strength. The Hulk's strength level can escalate through corresponding surges of adrenaline caused during stressfull situations, such as feelings of extreme anger, rage, and frustration. The Hulk has never been provoked to demonstrating a maximum limit of his strength, so it remains a mystery. The heaviest he has handled so far was holding up the side of a 150 billion ton mountain (136 Gt).

The gamma radiation added over 900 pounds of muscle, bone and tissue to Banner's body. The source of this additional mass is unrevealed but could, possibly, be extra-dimensional. Aside from his great strength, his gamma enhanced body possesses a high degree of resistance to injury. His skin can withstand the impact of high caliber military cannons or exposure to temperatures in excess of 5,000 degrees Farenheit (2760 degrees Celsius) and as low as -190 degrees Farenheit (-123 degrees Celsius) without damage. Although it is possible to injure him, the Hulk's body possesses an accelerated healing power that can enable him to repair massive injuries or tissue loss within a span of a few minutes at most. To actually kill the Hulk would require injuring him faster than he could heal, leaving extreme options as the only viable methods, such as a nuclear weapon.

The Hulk's highly advanced musculature produces considerably fewer fatigue toxins than the bodies of ordinary human beings, granting him the ability to sustain himself at maximum exertion for several days. His powerful leg muscles allow him to leap several miles in a single bound, he was once observed as nearly jumping into Earth's orbit so it is possible that his leaping strength increases with adrenaline surges as well.

Unrelated to his superhuman physique, the Hulk also possesses two other abilities. He is capable of seeing astral forms, and regardless of his current location, will always be able to locate the gamma bomb test site that birthed him (which is not really a power on his part).

Further unrelated to his powers, the Hulk also possesses a degree of resistance to mind-control. This is owing to the fact that there is more than one distinct mind in the Hulk's brain. If one of them is under siege, the others would fight it off.

whatever...the hulk could kill everyone...
2005-03-18 11:48:36 AM  

So is this Star Wars or Star Trek we're talking here?

Jesus H. Christ on a hydrogen-powered Harley-Davidson with a bottle of Jack Daniels in each hand and Mary Magdalene in a black leather thong riding pillion, man! When did Star Trek ever have frkking lightsabers?
2005-03-18 11:49:16 AM

The geekiness of this thread knows no bounds...NEEEEEERRDDSSS
2005-03-18 11:49:23 AM  
Nerds! I need your help! Why is a lightsaber a finite length? If it's a beam of energy, what keeps it to four feet or however long it is? Is this off topic? Is this thread too far gone for anyone to care? I think so.
2005-03-18 11:49:27 AM  
Master of the Flying Guillotine: Green Lanterns, owns all you suckas.

Yeah? I got a YELLOW brick here says otherwise.
And a baseball bat. For the golden age pussy ring wearer...
2005-03-18 11:51:14 AM  

As far as I know, yellow is no longer and issue for Hal after some recent happenings in GL.

Alan... well... He'll have to be a bit careful in woodshop.
2005-03-18 11:51:36 AM  
Shrugging Atlas:

Oh, by the way NineInchNader, Wolverine should have never beaten Lobo. That was a travesty.

Well, I dunno. Which Lobo are we talking about?

[image from too old to be available]

[image from too old to be available]
2005-03-18 11:52:24 AM  
Duh, a lightsaber can cut through adamantium. A lightsaber can cut through anything but another lightsaber. And some other EU stuff I can't remember, but it's rare, and it's not adamantium.
2005-03-18 11:52:26 AM  
JakeElwood There is a reason, and I belive it is because the crystal used to construct the lightsaber is cut in such a way that it bends light after a certain distance, thus giving you the lightasaber "blade". The Jedi learns to cut the crystal in such a way during their training.
2005-03-18 11:52:34 AM  

if all this stuff is true about the adamantium destroying particles and whatnot, how would one fire an adamantium bullet? I would think then that the hammer would just get farked when in struck the bullet. I don't know enough about guns to figure that out.

The hammer doesn't strike the bullet, it just drives the firing pin forward into the cartridge to detonate the powder inside and propel the bullet forward. No moving parts actually hit the bullet themselves, so there's no reason a rimfire cartridge with an adamantium bullet wouldn't be possible. You know, if they existed and all.

Superman would still deflect the bullet, though I think it'd just ricochet off of him rather than flatten and drop.

A lightsaber could probably not cut through adamantium; it can't be destroyed by any means known in the comics, and although technology like a lightsaber really doesn't exist yet in that world for them to judge it the properties are pretty similar to those of an industrial plasma torch (that can cut steel incredibly easily).
2005-03-18 11:52:34 AM  
Oh come on, Simon Belmont is dead and you know it. And since he's dead, that means Death has come for him. It merely pleased Death to play a minor role and appear to lose.
2005-03-18 11:52:48 AM  

Like the Superman vs Thor thread. Anyone with half a brain knows Superman would take him

Well, the Kryptonian IS vulnerable to magic. And Thor has a handy magic hammer...
2005-03-18 11:53:23 AM  
"But a Jedi would know that Superman is about to move long before Superman did, and could thus move to counteract this, assuming the Jedi was not in the mood for a well-timed snap-hiss to seriously injur Superman. Also, you forget that Jedi were capable of devastating speed due to their accessing pretty much the fabric of the universe."

When have we EVER seen a Jedi use precognition in a film?
(If you go the blaster blocking route I will disprove it so don't bother)

If Jedis have this precognition and super speed you speak of how was it they were all slaughtered on the bug planet?

Superman could simply exhale and kill every Jedi and Sith ever seen. You really need to lay off the crack pipe.

Heh, I haven't argued with Warsies in a good long time, this is fun.
2005-03-18 11:53:25 AM  
Adamantium first appeared in Avengers #66, and throughout its history it has been generally described thusly: Adamantium is a virtually indestructible man-made steel alloy which does not occur in nature.

Notice the phrase "virtually indestructible," this may be key. One then must wonder what kind of force can be used to harm the metal? We know from cannonical sources that the Incredible Hulk has ripped apart Adamantium, but this most likely was not what is called "True Adamantium," and therefore was slightly less resiliant. However, Captain America's shield was crushed by Thanos using a power gem, but that's vibranium and not True Adamantium.

It seems that the so-called "secondary Adamantium" was invented as a writer's crutch to explain when and why Adamantium was broken so they could keep the axiom of "Adamantium can't be broken," intact. The only true way to defeat True Adamantium is to circumvent its nature via the use of molecular rearrangement or atomic manipulation; without such methods True Adamantium cannot be broken or bent.

Then the question is this: how does a lightsaber work? Molecular rearrangement? Plasma? A tight forcefield? Laser? Magnetic force? The blade of the lightsaber is important to know about. Clearly, it is not heat of any sort or all those poor Jedi would have scalded hands--heat at the power enough to melt through a metal door doesn't end at the point of creation, it radiates outward.

So, plasma is out. Laser? Not nearly powerful enough, or else that's what every beam firing weapon in the SW universe would use, the effect would be like a energy sabot or railgun, which by itself would be a cool idea, but not what we're after.

Molecular rearrangement? Probably not, it just doesn't seem to make sense.

Magnetic force fields? Possibly, but since no metallic material has ever been shown to be attracted to a lightsaber's blade, we may discount that. A forcefield of an elongated torus? Possibly, but no other forcefields shown in the SW universe have ever been known to slice-'n'-dice like a saber, unless we consider the possibility that a very tightly woven forcefield in torus configuration that rotates would have the effect of teeth plus cauterization. We know there's some heat due to the evidence we have available.

So, the best bet is that a lightsaber is a tightly confined, rotating, toroidal forcefield/energy field. But can that cut through a metal that has resisted all other attempts at disection? The answer is in the cannonical comics themselves, as they state: Only a device called a Molecular Rearranger can alter the form of hardened Adamantium. So, it seems a lightsaber cannot harm True Adamantium in the slightest, and any instance where we would (unlikely) see such an event would be "Secondary Adamantium", which is far less resiliant.

/Too geeky for my own good....
2005-03-18 11:53:29 AM  
Adamantium can be melted (how they got it into wolverine) and it can be molded by magnetism (when Magneto stripped it out of Wolverine). So, if the lightsabre's point temperature is above the temperature at which adamantium melts, then yes, it could slice off a piece.

I don't know either of the temperatures, so you can't say for sure.

/Geek and proud of it.
2005-03-18 11:53:54 AM  

Nerds! I need your help! Why is a lightsaber a finite length? If it's a beam of energy, what keeps it to four feet or however long it is? Is this off topic? Is this thread too far gone for anyone to care? I think so.

I think it's called a lightsaber not because the blade itself is a ray of light, but because whatever composes the blade is at a high enough temperature to radiate light. Perhaps it's a plasma blade contained by a magnetic field, but then the handle should be too hot to handle.

/not a Star Wars geek.
2005-03-18 11:54:20 AM  
while I was reading this thread, by ballz fell off from the nerd overload.

/and I thought I was somewhat of a nerd. I dont hold
a candle to some of you'se
2005-03-18 11:54:56 AM  

Sides' Jedis don't regenerate...

Pfft, the heck they don't! My level 14 Jedi Consular has a +3 robe of regeneration on her. That's for both health and force points. Get it together man...
2005-03-18 11:56:01 AM  
Nothing is stronger than catfartium.
2005-03-18 11:57:10 AM  
I think you ahve to assume a light sabre is heat based as when Luke's hand was cut off in Empire, the wound didn't bleed, so we can assume Vader's light sabre immediately cauterized the wound.

Therefore again, if the blade is hot enough to revert adamantium to liquid, it can go through it like the proverbial hot knife.
2005-03-18 11:57:11 AM  
Best. Thread. EVER.

/Lighsaber would win
2005-03-18 11:58:22 AM  
In more important news, Jesse Custer can kick everyone's asses.
[image from too old to be available]

/Preacher does, in fact, rule.
//Lightsaber can totally cut through Adamantium
2005-03-18 11:58:38 AM  
See, this is why I always go full munchkin and say I'm playing The Beyonder. Being the Beyonder makes the argument go away. And if it doesn't, then I'm the Beyonder+Molecule Man combo so I'm a freakin' universe.
2005-03-18 11:59:36 AM  
"Pfft, the heck they don't! My level 14 Jedi Consular has a +3 robe of regeneration on her. That's for both health and force points. Get it together man..."

Curses! Foiled again by Phat Lewt!!!11one!!
2005-03-18 12:00:36 PM  
Ohh that's a whole new can of worms but I think lightsaber yes, adamantium no. Some lousy lava can melt that ring; I would like to think a lightsaber could too.

Yeah, but then you have to take into account the whole "cursed magic" factor. The ring needs to be destroyed by being thrown into the volcano at Mordor, not any volcano. I get the sense that it could survive getting tossed into any OTHER volcano and then do fun things like cause an eruption to get it tossed back out to the world of man, but that specific one is how to destroy the curse.
2005-03-18 12:00:38 PM  
I was under the impression that adamantium was defeated by captainsensiblium. Or simply questionable musical ability and dorky outfits.

/too much MTV during me teen years
2005-03-18 12:00:47 PM  

A lightsaber could probably not cut through adamantium; it can't be destroyed by any means known in the comics

Cyclops' eye beams can blast through adamantium, as demonstrated in Age of Apocalypse.
That would be the comics where alternate-universe Wolvie has only one hand and alternate-universe Cyclops has only one eye, and it's not a coincidence.

Those two never get along, no matter what universe...

Anyway, therefore, lightsabers can cut through adamantium. Case closed.
2005-03-18 12:01:01 PM  
Ok end of argument:

Lightsabe COULD cut through adamantium. It WONT because there are no lightsabers in the Marvel Universe.
2005-03-18 12:01:09 PM  

Curses! Foiled again by Phat Lewt!!!11one!!

Here. Want to borrow my +7 Revolver of Demon Banishing? I bagged it off this prettyboy monk who went around wearing a scroll draped over his shoulders.
2005-03-18 12:02:04 PM  
Son of Thunder

I didn't say that Cap has no problem with killing, but when he kills he does so with relatively little hesitation as he did with Baron Blood.

So here's my question: could a Jedi/Sith defeat Juggernaut?

Can Jedi/Sith perform mind-tricks? I believe they do. Juggernaut is a mental midget and can be easily defeated with his helmet off. Hell, even Spider-Man defeated the Juggernaut once.
2005-03-18 12:02:52 PM  

[image from too old to be available]


Would pay good money for this one, c'mon Ennis get to it!
2005-03-18 12:03:18 PM  
yeah, i think it could melt it... but are we taking into account that someone like wolverine would be hard to hit in the first place? I mean, come on, his heightened senses are like a force power all their own. Add to that a healing factor, and a lone jedi is in trouble. plus, while we have seen sabers cut metal quickly before, we can also assume it wasn't nearly as strong, so then the jedi would basically have to his saber to his bones to cut through them... something he most likely wouldn't patiently sit and let him do.

god i'm a nerd
2005-03-18 12:03:31 PM  
Bah screwed up the html..

[image from too old to be available]

There we go...
2005-03-18 12:03:54 PM  
So here's my question: could a Jedi/Sith defeat Juggernaut?

Absoultely. A Jedi could use the force to remove Juggernaut's helmet, then dominate him. A Jedi is also probably 1000x quicker than Juggernaut and could probably cut a leg off if Juggs got uppity.
2005-03-18 12:04:09 PM  
No. Neither of those two objects exist.

/a late entry
2005-03-18 12:04:26 PM  
Guys (and token geek girls), it's wolverine's SKELETON that is adamantium. His flesh is normal, just heals a lot faster. So if the discussion is about whether wolverine would die in a fight with some jedi then the answer is yes. they would just carve off chunks of his muscle until he was deaded.

/greatest thread evar
2005-03-18 12:04:27 PM  
Preacher, in my opinion, was an immense disappointment. Just a bunch of potty jokes.
2005-03-18 12:04:36 PM  
Not a chance. We've seen surfaces smoke after being cut by a lightsaber (and Luke's wrist was cauterized). The door penetrated by the saber in TPM began to melt. This tells us that the beam is an energy effect. Adamantium has been demonstrated to withstand energy effects directed at it, so a light saber would just bounce off. Sorry Warsies, but you lose this one.
2005-03-18 12:04:42 PM  

If Jedis have this precognition and super speed you speak of how was it they were all slaughtered on the bug planet?

Was it on P or on K?

/They'll keep fighting, and they'll WIN!
2005-03-18 12:07:27 PM  
See, a jedi works partly with his lightsaber, but partially with the force as well, in a fight. A Jedi's mental powers assit then in a scuffle, maybe fooling their enemy into thinking they are not quite where they are, like Obi Wan, or maybe preying upon their fear, like vader.


Wolvie has an adamantium skull, which makes his mind impervious to psychic attack. I think a Jedi trying to face him down wouldn't get a read on him, or his intentions, until it was too late.
2005-03-18 12:08:54 PM  
"Absoultely. A Jedi could use the force to remove Juggernaut's helmet, then dominate him. A Jedi is also probably 1000x quicker than Juggernaut and could probably cut a leg off if Juggs got uppity."

Juggs simply slams his hands together and the Jedi explodes.

Get friggin' real. Juggernaut has withstood MUCH more powerful things than lightsabres and the telepaths that mind screw him make Jedis look like Madame Cleo
2005-03-18 12:08:59 PM  
On the issue of Superman vs. Doomsday and the energy field theory...

I think that since Doomsday was later revealed to be from Krypton himself (he was some sort of kryptonian super-monster) then it would be safe to assume he too had the same energy aura that Supes has. So it's possible that the two energy fields had a nullification effect on one another. Then all you had left was two incredibly strong/fast/powerful beings beating the crap out of each other, but the pure invulnerability was gone, at least to blows from each other.

that would also explain why superman's comstume took a serious beating and supes was actually cut and bled from Doomsday's attacks, but wasn't further injured by the buildings that were falling down on him. The buildings weren't nullifying his protective aura.

//don't we have enough slashes already in this thread?
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