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(some girl)   Can a light saber cut through adamantium? Discuss   ( divider line
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30090 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2005 at 9:17 AM (18 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook

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2005-03-19 4:01:17 AM  
I agree with Hookersville. The lightsaber would win under all circumstances and evenutally destroy the adamantium.

Now the question I have, is, does anyone know where I can get the recipe for a lightsaber if you have the engineering skills for it. That might be a purple item if created. Do you also know which zone would allow you to mine adamantium?

As for The One Ring, get The Two Ring, it has better stats.

/Nerd and married to another nerd
2005-03-19 4:13:14 AM  
2005-03-19 4:42:50 AM  
Also Fark the enterprise D! Hello it holds 1079 crew members (something like that) last time I checked even a regular star destroyer carries about 20,000 - with a greater size comes a greater energy source needed for it. It is like asking if a shuttle pod could take the enterprise is a joke.

First of all, the crew compliment (as of season six, episode 7) is 1014.

Second of all, the federation runs a rather humane ship, decent and spacious quarters for all, whereas I'm going to assume the nature of a star destroyer's living arrangements is spartan at best. The Enterprise-D, considering cargo bays, holodecks, and quarters scaled downto the quality of a star destroyers', could really hold many more people than just what she has at any given time on the series.

Third, if the Enterprise can harness dilithium and such and attain faster-than-light travel while most things in the star wars universe is still plodding around in hyper-space, I think it stands to reason that the power output of the enterprise is greater than or at least equal to that of a SD.

/my Star Trek knowledge far surpasses my star wars knowledge.
2005-03-19 4:43:45 AM  
Oh, also, after reviewing the points put forth in this post, I think i'm going to have to side with the lightsabre on this one.
2005-03-19 5:33:10 AM  
True Adamantium can only be manipulated on the atomic level, secondary adamantium is easily broken when you're Banner or Kal, and tertiary adamantium is like a harder titanium. Logan's claws are infused with the true stuff, and the blades all end in one molecule. This means he cuts through anything that's not effected by magic, or true adamantium/vibranium(Wolverine's ultimately sharp claws scar secondary adamntium, and glide clean off the true stuff). He can cut the hulk, bit given the monster's size and irritation, the claws only go so deep. In my perfect written crossover, Wolverine could cut Superman. Given the man of steel's speed, I'm fairly sure if it did happen he'd learn quickly, and as spiderman has found out, all you've got to do is control his wrists. Logan's got peak human strength from working out and carrying an extra 107lbs of metal wherever he goes, so it's obvious the superstrength is the deciding factor. Kal's punches would be like meat blasts, the skeleton would survive fine, but wolvie's brain would be badly damaged, via inertia. The healing would cover this, and it'd be like a blackout. I doubt superman would fry him, ethics and all. But Logan's managed to climb a ladder out of a blast pit that was going off, he cooked all the way but, again, healing factor. As for the sabers, a headshot would cook his brains for the 40 seconds it'd take for him to heal, so you could keep him, well, retarded for a bit.

This is the stuff my dreams are made of. Men in funny tights, killing each other with lightshows!
2005-03-19 9:27:49 AM  
[image from too old to be available]

2005-03-19 10:19:32 AM  

If Gandalf could send eagles to bring Frodo and Sam back from Mount Doom, why couldn't he have sent them to carry Frodo and Sam to Mount Doom in the first place?

That would be way too obvious. You think Sauron wouldn't have noticed a flock of Eagles making a beeline to Mt. Doom, and thrown everything he had at them? Gandalf knew that the combined force of Middle-Earth weren't strong enough to defeat Sauron in a straight-up fight. That is why the whole point was to divert Sauron's attention, first with the Battle at Pelennor Field, and then with the Battle at the Black Gate, so that Frodo and Sam could make their way to Mt. Doom, *unnoticed*.


As for the sabers, a headshot would cook his brains for the 40 seconds it'd take for him to heal, so you could keep him, well, retarded for a bit.

How could a lightsaber injure his brain when it's encased in an adamantium cranium, which as you say, cannot be penetrated by a lightsaber? Or are you claiming that if you hit him in the head enough times, the heat from the saber will pass through the skull and fry his brain? Is adamantium even a good conductor?
2005-03-19 11:09:44 AM  
Wolverine's eyes aren't made of adamantium. Neither is the brain directly behind them.

2005-03-19 11:52:15 AM  

Afraid not. The human eye is almost completely surrounded by bone. The sphenoid sits directly behind the eye. Only a couple tiny openings exist - the optic canal and the orbital fissures, and these are only a couple millimeters wide. If all of Wolverine's bones are truly impenetrable, then the Jedi would have to aim his lightsaber at one of these millimeter-wide openings at just the right angle, in order to penetrate the brain.

Personally, I think the Jedi would have a better chance of going up, from the throat, through the cranial base. That's a much wider opening.
2005-03-19 12:44:24 PM  
Master of the Flying Guillotine: /I'm just sayin'...

meh, Ollie Queen'd kick both their asses ;)

Nickface: In more important news, Jesse Custer can kick everyone's asses.
I'd seriously like to see him in a drink/smokeoff against John Constantine.

Batman always wins.
two words: Jason Todd.

San Dimas High School Football Rules!!: /Where should I start?
Anything by Timothy Zahn, espescially starting with Heir to the Empire. Also Michael Stackpole and Aaron Allston are great as well.


I have nothing to contribute to this discussion except for a handful of pretty Alex Ross pictures.

Not a damn thing wrong with that. Alex Ross is incredible.
2005-03-19 2:39:08 PM  
Perhaps I can shead some logical reasoning on this: Thinking back to my chemistry and material engineering days, I'd have to surmise that Adamantium must be an extremely heavy element, because since pretty much every element up to #116 or so has already been discovered, and I assume none of them are Adamantium, it has to be higher up on the list, and therefore more massive. If I were to make a conjecture, I'd say that Adamantium must have a full electron shell, as it is very stable.

On to the subject of lightsabers. I'm not entirely familiar with their functioning, but from what I've read here, they are a superheated collection of molecules moving extremely rapidly. If this were the case, I'd wonder why two lightsabers don't go through each other or somehow distort how the other looks.

Anyway, as we can see from the beginning of Episode I when Qui Gon Gin cuts through the door with his lightsaber, there is a fair amount of time and pressure necessary to cut anything really hard or thick.

So, to conclude, I think that since Adamantium must be an extremely heavy undiscovered metal, and since Lightsabers can supposedly cut through anything (Chrorizite not being considered), I would imagine that the electromagnetic field that propels the particles of the lightsaber would be enough to destabalize the bonds in between the atoms of the Adamantium. However, looking back to the Qui Gon Gin example, I'd say that cutting through it would require an incredibly large amount of power (you'd have to plug your lightsaber in), and it would take a very long time. Think of it like putting a semi-hot screwdriver on top of a stick of butter and constantly adding small amounts of heat to the screwdriver until the butter softened enough for the weight of the screwdriver to be enough to go through.
2005-03-19 3:15:21 PM  
Adamantium is probably a stable version of 114 or the same column and even heavier if there is a stability island somewhere. In which case it would bond really well with carbon and in theory a better bond than carbon has with itself at the same time it would have the properties of keeping the atoms from slipping the way carbon shores up iron to make steel. Due to our lack of knowledge about element 114 it could actually be stable, a real periodic table shows all of the isotopes of all of the atoms and their stabilities. Most atoms have an unstable isotope or 4 and are considered radioactive when the unstable isotopes outnumber the stable ones. Currently, the only gold we have created in a lab has been highly radioactive, but we know that this is not the case with most gold.
2005-03-19 3:28:39 PM  
Geeks and nerds! At last, I have found my people!

Good heavens, it took so long to read this thread I almost forgot what I was going to say....

It seems to me, ages and ages ago, when my friends (who, though I was a nerd, were so much more nerdier than I,) played the Star Wars RPG, one of them explained to me that while someone who cannot use the force (IE Han Solo) can technically use a lightsaber, the user must be force-sensitive to effectivly use it in combat. The reasoning was that the blade, being made of accelerated particles, was weightless, so you wouldn't have a lot of sense of movement in swinging it. So it took an awareness of the Force to know where the blade was at all times, to avoid lopping of one's head, arms, or whatever.

Yep. Anybody who can roll that 20 can switch a saber on. And anyone can *try* to use it in a fight. But a non-Jedi, or a Jedi whose abilities don't include Lightsaber Combat, stands a better chance of taking him/herself out than the opponent.
In our campaign, we instituted a house rule that if you were firing up a lightsaber to use as a tool, an Easy roll was all you needed. Since you were in a non-stress situation and had the time to fire it up carefully, presumably you could bring it online with less chance of cauterizing yourself.

fatlilbug, no apologies needed. I'm always up for some Alex Ross artwork.
Even though I don't read DC or Marvel either one, anymore, I can appreciate AR's work.

/SW geek since '77
//gamer geek since '78
//married to fellow longtime geek since '87
////yes, it can happen!
2005-03-19 3:38:22 PM  
Actually, SuperRobot, adamantium need not be a new element. It could be an alloy. In fact, I believe that it is supposedly an alloy, created by a metallurgist who was trying to duplicate the metal in Cap's shield (which is even more indestructible than primary adamantium). He is the same guy who created Cap's shield, but the notes he made for the making of it were destroyed if I recall correctly, and he was unable to duplicate it.

Some have suggested that Cap's shield is an alloy of primary adamantium and Wakandan vibranium (accounting for its energy-absorbing and impact-absorbing abilities, which is why it can block a blow from the Hulk [or Superman in a crossover] and not shatter Cap's forearm from the transmitted kinetic force, or how Cap can put it under his feet when jumping from a height that would normally kill him and it would enable him to survive without injury), but the current wisdom is that while it does have aspects of both, it is actually neither.

There is a material that may be possible in the real world that would be almost as durable as adamantium, without being incredibly dense or massive (e. g. neutronium). It would be a phase of ordinary, everyday carbon, just as diamond is. Basically, if you look at the Periodic Table, you'll see that carbon sits in a spot right on the border between heavy metals and non-metals. Even in the forms that we know of, carbon often manifests metal-like properties (graphite is electrically conductive, for instance).

The hypothesis is that, given temperatures and pressures orders of magnitude greater than those needed to turn carbon into diamond, carbon will form an actual metal, perhaps using a buckyball or buckytube-like molecular structure, with resulting very strong molecular bonds. If it can retain that phase once the pressure and temperature are removed, and exist at room temperature, it may indeed be an adamantium-like substance.

Another interesting metal possibility is that hydrogen may be able to form a metal under similar conditions. If it can remain stable at normal conditions, it could not only be an incredibly light but reasonably durable (though not adamantium-like or even steel-like) metal (wonderful for aircraft), but it may even be a superconductor at room temperature!

Kryptonite, on the other hand, would pretty much have to be a new element formed from fusion of heavy nuclei in the explosion of Krypton, with an atomic number probably in the 150 - 200+ range.


Now I know Spiderman has kicked the Hulk's ass once... he was granted the power cosmic and punched Hulk into orbit... since Hulk doesn't have flight or life support, he basically spun around up there holding his breath until Spidey felt bad about it and rescued him.

It wasn't the Power Cosmic. It was the Enigma Force. Spidey had become the then-current Captain Universe, without knowing it.

To those who don't know: Captain Universe was a very unusual hero in the Marvel Universe. Basically, at all times there is a Captain Universe, but it could be anyone. The Enigma Force (from the Microverse of the Micronauts) endows a person with the Captain Universe power and identity long enough to solve some crisis (personal or otherwise). It multiplies any abilities or talents they may already have by a factor of fifty, plus certain abilities that are consistent among Captain Universes (flight, molecular control, etc.). Since Spidey normally has Class Ten strength (he can press about ten tons), that gave him Class 500 strength. The Hulk is among several beings in the Marvel Universe who average Class 100 strength (Thor, Hercules, Wonder Man, Titania, Sasquatch, etc.). Spidey was thus about five times stronger than the Hulk at that time, though usually the Hulk is ten times stronger than Spidey.

In Spidey's case, the crisis was that a fusion of three of the most powerful Sentinels was formed, the Tri-Sentinel, and only a Captain Universe who was already super being could defeat it. Once he did, the Enigma Force left him and presumably went on to someone else.
2005-03-19 5:10:56 PM  
Somebody get a mod to make the page smaller.
2005-03-19 5:14:37 PM  
Right. Adamantium is supposed to be incredibly light, right? Kinetic energy and all.

Maybe an adamantium rail gun. That would imply that adamantium could be manipulated by magnetic forces, though, which I'm pretty sure Magneto has used on Wolverine in one of the two movies. Rail guns work by magnetically accelerating the projectile in an incredibly short period of time. Thus, an adamantium rail gun would theoretically be possible.

Are you retarded? Adamantium is incredibly heavy. Wolverine is 300 pounds, and about 4-11, and he ain't fat. Hell, the adamantium is only grafted on top of his bones, anyway.
2005-03-19 5:33:41 PM  
SilentStrider: two words: Jason Todd.

Ouch, you had to bring that up, didn't you?

Its true, in that situation, the Batman failed, but but he wasn't beat.
2005-03-19 6:20:15 PM  
wydok: But the really important question is who would win in a battle: The Hulk or Superman!

Been done, supes won.
2005-03-19 8:21:31 PM  
I should be either extremely proud or extremely ashamed that I read through almost this entire thread. Good stuff, folks, good stuff...
2005-03-19 10:32:29 PM  
Yoda says "George Lucas is creaming his dockers over shiat like this", no ?
2005-03-20 3:17:36 AM  
Nonsense, CatholicSamurai, what about when Magneto extracted the adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton? That was a pretty major change to the metal itself (though one could argue that the indiviual particals were simply ripped out through W's pores, I suppose).

Personally, I don't think a sabre could cut through true adamantium, though I'm sure it'd make a mess of the secondary stuff. The REAL question, though, is what it would do vs. Wakandan Vibranium.

I say a light sabre would be powerless against that stuff.

You do realize that magneto is Class-100. That means he can move 100 tons of metal using magnetism. He could do more if he really wanted too, but that much energy would kill him so he put mental limits on the amount of power he can use.
2005-03-20 3:48:00 AM  
Absoultely. A Jedi could use the force to remove Juggernaut's helmet, then dominate him. A Jedi is also probably 1000x quicker than Juggernaut and could probably cut a leg off if Juggs got uppity.

You forget the fact that he also has a magical force field. Granted, he never uses it, but if he did, then the jedi's would be mincemeat.
2005-03-20 4:17:14 AM  
Batman defeated Wolverine
...the Punisher...
...and a Predator.

The Saint of Killers:

Batman may be willing to cheat, but Captain America is willing to kill and that's a far more effective way of winning a fight.

Batman is above killing random street thugs, but he has no problem with taking the lives of other superheroes/villains. If you can recall, he refused to join the Justice League until he figured out how to kill all of them. Hell, he keeps a wad of Krpytonite in his back pocket at all times just in case! He has an Uncle Ben-like attitude towards people with powers: he figures if they aren't responsible enough to know what they are doing and the risks they are taking, they have no business living with said abilities.

In addition to Captain America and the above pictures,Batman has historically defeated Superman, the Swamp Thing and Tarzan. It doesn't matter who the enemy is, Batman always wins.

I call bullshiat. First off, Batman did not beat the predator in combat. He ran him over in his car, shot him full of tranquilizers, and then beat him to near death a baseballbat. If the predator knew that in advance, he probably would have shot Batman with lasers. Besides, if the predator knew of what Batman was willing to do (ie, use a car), he would probably have gotten in his ship, and shot the hell out of Batman with lasers. Or, he would have seeded the batcave with alien eggs, collect Batman's skull, and then kill the alien that came out of Batman.

The punisher, in a one shot special, managed to kill every single super powered being in the marvel universe (except for the ones on a cosmic level). He killed Dr. Doom by placing a magnet to his head in order to subdue him and then beat him to death. he tracked down Bruce banner and shot him. He nuked the x-men and the brotherhood of evil mutants, and he also killed captain America in hand to hand combat by suprising him with a gun. Also, he got his ass whupped by daredevil but was still able to beat him by using a device that acted like a gigantic dog whistle.

Batman is a faggoty rich little brat. The punisher is a crazy vietnam vet. Batman used to be cool with killing people (used machiene guns and shiat, hung a genetic monster by flying in an airplane and hanging him). Now, he refuses to kill anyone, even the Joker, who killed Jason todd and crippled Barbara Gordon. In short, the punisher would probably be smart about this and use an RPG or something to blow up Batman. If he really had too, he would wire the Batcave with a shiatload of C4, and then detonate it. I remember this really creepy series called the Punisher's Arsenal, which was just a list of real guns and materials that the punisher uses. Basically, he can use any gun. The motherfarker just takes any gun he can off of criminals, and trains with them so he can be proficciant. He also has a number of hide outs, getaway cars, a boat, a sewer hide out, etc. If the punisher decided to kill Batman, batman would be dead.
2005-03-20 4:56:00 AM  
I can't believe I read the whole thing. It took the better part of a day. And anyway, it's all a moot point. Why bicker about Wolverine vs. Yoda or Les Nubians vs. Los Lobos?

[image from too old to be available]

Little wooden boy owns them all. And for an encore? Santa.
2005-03-23 11:00:33 AM  
The power/color (frequency) of lightsabers depends on the type of crystals used. Go play KoToR. Maybe on the Ship in Ep 1, Qui didn't have strong enough crystals in. Maybe he had crystals that weren't meant for piercing?
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