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21808 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2005 at 9:12 AM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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lbn
2005-02-11 10:53:32 AM  
I liked the book better.
 
2005-02-11 10:53:57 AM  
I thought the violence was rather unrealistic and underdone myself. You would almost certainly lose bowel and bladder control, you would vomit, He would have had twitching from the nerve damage, etc. Also after they covered Him after the whipping, the blood congealed to the clothing, and when they ripped it off again it would have taken all the scabs with it. I really don't know why everyone was so impressed with the violence.
 
2005-02-11 10:54:39 AM  
GodsTumor,

Yep, them brimstone preachers are generally idiots, and IMHO chase more people away from Christianity than attract them.

/Does not mean I think they are wrong.
 
2005-02-11 10:54:45 AM  
Thurg

Bach - another man of faith - now to be quickly dissed here on Fark as another nutcase with homoerotic tendencies.
 
2005-02-11 10:55:16 AM  
eclectro Point taken. Fark is not quite the place to discuss in a respected/well behaved environment. My view on religion is, I concurr, reels quite far from your view. Doesn't mean that we need to scalp each other. Let's leave those practices to the experts..
 
2005-02-11 10:55:23 AM  
Phil Herup:

Jsimmons38040:

"A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of
punishment and hope of reward after death.
~ Albert Einstein"

I will add

"Religion is for the weak of mind." Phil Herup

//raising my boy Catholic, then he can grow up and come the same conclusion that I did.



What, that you are an idiot? Quit quoting yourself, Rackjite.
 
2005-02-11 10:55:41 AM  
Thurg: There is no controversy here, his own writings prove that.

No offence, but the only evidence for him being a christian I've seen comes from a christian website. I've read biographies (admittedly none as recent as that article) that contradict that. Until I see it from an unbiased source, or until Newton appears before me and starts preaching, I'm going to remain unconvinced.
 
2005-02-11 10:56:33 AM  
I may sound a bit angry, but can you blame me? I grew up at First Baptist Hell.

Lemonade or tea anyone?
 
2005-02-11 10:56:34 AM  
MasterThief: John 11:35.

That is all.


Trey 4:20
That is all
 
2005-02-11 10:56:34 AM  
Bach rocks.
 
2005-02-11 10:56:40 AM  
Interesting debate, er, flamewar we have going on here. I'm going to insert myself into this one.

I didn't see "The Passion", nor do I plan on seeing it. It seemed over-the-top and looked more like a statement of gore. Another problem I had with the movie was that it didnt focus on anything other than Christ's suffering. Not any of the good deeds or the sermons where he urged the people to be generous, take care of the poor, be accepting, peace loving members of society (incidentally, these concepts have been forgotten in large part). That's where I believe religion has lost it's way. It's an instrument of manipulation and fear contrived by man to control and force obedience to a set of beliefs, and they vary from denomination to denomination.

I believe in "live and let live" and "tolerance", which are virtues that the mainstream religious movement here in the US has totally forgotten out of convienance of advancing an agenda. If someone chooses to not see something your way, they did not stamp their "Go Directly To Hell Card".

I am a spiritual person, who believes in God. However, I will never support an institution or movement that professes to be the "only way" to heaven when they have nothing more than their own interests at heart. Church, and namely the Christian church, is now a social contest, where people are competiting to be part of the in-crowd, gain social favor and advance an agenda while garnering a profit. I see churches all over my area fighting for who has the biggest sanctuary, the biggest swimming pool, who has their name on the radio the most, who is sponsoring the most T-ball teams, etc. etc. etc. To me, thats not what was intended when it was said not to be boastful, less judgemental, etc. Relgiion and Spirituality, to me at least, is a PRIVATE thing. I don't want someone telling me I'm right or wrong on that matter, and I won't tell you the same. It's between you and your God and thats the bottom line. The same applies for those that run around on Saturday mornings ringing doorbells and preaching hellfire and brimstone if I dont come to *their* church, or those that prey on small children hoping to *save* them from hell by converting them early. Leave that to the parents or let them make their own decision.

With all of that said, I wish to say that while both sides have valid points, they are both equally idiotic by tossing insults at each other. If you choose to see it, fine. If you choose to boycott it, fine. Neither will effect me or the rest of us one bit.

/flame on
 
2005-02-11 10:56:47 AM  
"God is in the details." Albert Einstein.

/i'm going to class.
 
2005-02-11 10:57:24 AM  
Mr_Fabulous

you had to ask, didn't you?
 
2005-02-11 10:57:57 AM  
MasterThief
Thou shalt not steal.

That is all.
 
2005-02-11 10:58:47 AM  
You beat me to it. Barjockey, could you start using lots of ALL CAPS, bold and italics in randomly placed chunks? Just until Mike arrives?

Don't forget making a statement an absolute fact by stating "PERIOD".


Maybe Mike is OVER IN THE Menstrual Leave Thread

Period.
 
2005-02-11 10:59:14 AM  
Mugato: That's a matter of opinion. But no matter what the history is, does that mean that the story can never be told ever again?

It's not a matter of opinion; go read up on it. The problem isn't with telling the story of Jesus, or even a subset of the story (the crucifixion). The problem is in the presentation of the story in such a way that it has very little to do with Jesus' life. Why not focus on his life, or even his resurrection?

the Jews are untouchable? It's bad enough network tv news protects what they're doing now

Careful, your prejudice is showing...and informs the rest of your posting. I'm out.
 
2005-02-11 10:59:31 AM  
The jury is out on whether Jesus existed at all. None of the Gospels were written by the apostles, or anyone who was even alive when Jesus supposedly was. The two most quoted historians of the time, Tacitus and Josephus, are also quoted as attributing miracles to Alexander the Great and Vespasian, and the limited mentions of Jesus in their work is questionable even in its veracity.

Not that it would change the world if a man called Jesus lived and died at that time, or even that people locally considered him to be one of many prophets claiming to be the Messiah at the time (see Life of Brian for more on this), but the evidence is far more spotty than people think. The most popular quote is that there is more historical evidence for Jesus than for Julius Caesar. When people start finding coinage, statuary, carvings, pottery and the like depicting Jesus at multiple stages of his life -- instead of a single book that leaves out most of his life, and a few questionable fragments outside the Bible -- then I'll accept that he existed as characterized.

Of course, since the very IDEA of Jesus as God-and-son-of-God-and-Messiah-and-Immortal-and-died is logically absurd, history CAN'T prove it happened as depicted in the Bible. So, like every other ancient fairy tale, you have to either give up on rational thought and "have faith", or you reject it as unsound like I have.
 
2005-02-11 10:59:52 AM  
Do the Lord's work today, people... rebuke yourselves!

/still mad about that actress from The Village not being nominated for an Oscar... oh, and Phantom of the Opera, as well.
 
2005-02-11 10:59:56 AM  
Church, and namely the Christian church, is now a social contest, where people are competiting to be part of the in-crowd, gain social favor and advance an agenda while garnering a profit.

That is an extremely close-minded and narrow point of view. Sure there are those like this that exist, but surely all Christian churches cannot be painted with the same brush.
 
2005-02-11 11:00:22 AM  
Good review of The Passion here:
http://www.negativewaves.com/features/pastparty/vanamonde_passion.htm
 
2005-02-11 11:01:28 AM  
Mr_Fabulous:

2005-02-11 10:26:19 AM WalkingCarpet
This thread is useless without Mike_71

You beat me to it. Barjockey, could you start using lots of ALL CAPS, bold and italics in randomly placed chunks? Just until Mike arrives?

/and whatever happened to CatholicSamurai?


I don't know who the hell you are, but yet you remember me. That's kinda sweet... I guess.
 
2005-02-11 11:01:38 AM  
gbejrlsu

LittleSmitty:
Bah, read the book. Movies never capture the essence of a good book.

they made a book out of that?

Yes, I believe it was called the BIBLE
 
2005-02-11 11:02:17 AM  
Religious bickering aside, the crucifixition wasn't a big deal in the Bible, it was a big deal in medieval Europe when people used to perform Passion plays in order to stir up the local citizens in a frenzy over jews. Lots of areas in Germany for instance had to ban Passion plays.

There's also something ironic about Mel Gibson's movie. He made his living with movies like Mad Max, Braveheart and Leathal Weapon, movies in which he always gets the crap kicked out of him or gets tortured. Mel's always seemed to have a sadistic streak when it came to choosing movies, perhaps he jus thought the roles were Christ-like when he was getting the shiat knocked out of him.
 
2005-02-11 11:02:35 AM  
Am I the only person wondering if there is an "outtakes" video? Something like Jesus getting nailed to the cross, blood spattering everywhere and then someone starts giggling because they forgot their line?

Gibson is known for his practical jokes on set, so I imagine there is some pretty good stuff there. I don't suppose they had that at the end of the movie, like a Jackie Chan film??

/never saw the movie
//no interest in ever seeing it
 
2005-02-11 11:04:10 AM  
LOL

Duke hit that nail, and hit it hard.
 
2005-02-11 11:04:14 AM  
Clavis:

The jury is out on whether Jesus existed at all. None of the Gospels were written by the apostles, or anyone who was even alive when Jesus supposedly was. The two most quoted historians of the time, Tacitus and Josephus, are also quoted as attributing miracles to Alexander the Great and Vespasian, and the limited mentions of Jesus in their work is questionable even in its veracity.

Not that it would change the world if a man called Jesus lived and died at that time, or even that people locally considered him to be one of many prophets claiming to be the Messiah at the time (see Life of Brian for more on this), but the evidence is far more spotty than people think. The most popular quote is that there is more historical evidence for Jesus than for Julius Caesar. When people start finding coinage, statuary, carvings, pottery and the like depicting Jesus at multiple stages of his life -- instead of a single book that leaves out most of his life, and a few questionable fragments outside the Bible -- then I'll accept that he existed as characterized.

Of course, since the very IDEA of Jesus as God-and-son-of-God-and-Messiah-and-Immortal-and-died is logically absurd, history CAN'T prove it happened as depicted in the Bible. So, like every other ancient fairy tale, you have to either give up on rational thought and "have faith", or you reject it as unsound like I have.



Uh... have you done any research before you typed out this paragraph? People that don't believe Jesus existed are the ones who get laughed at and have the proverbial rotten fruit chucked at them. Jesus' divinity is what is in question, not His existance. Hell (no pun intended), there is more evidence (it seems) for Jesus' existance then there is for many other "ancient historical figures" that we are 100% certain existed.
 
2005-02-11 11:04:19 AM  
The types of Christians that people on Fark bash, would not come to Fark in the first place. They are too busy with bible study, trying to save people, etc...

If you are a Christian posting on fark, then we are not bashing you (unless you are Mike_71)...

//Went to one of my dad's church golf retreats... all they could talk about are their afflictions with porn. They can't even look at a pretty woman. If they do, they already commit the sin.
//hence the name
 
2005-02-11 11:04:20 AM  
TurnerBrown
I have no problem with religion if it makes some bad people good because of fear of hell or the promise of after life.
It's just I don't buy most of it and I'm a product of Catholic school.
 
2005-02-11 11:04:23 AM  
LittleSmitty: Yes, I believe it was called the BIBLE

It's a bird! it's a plane! it's sarcasm flying right over your head!
 
2005-02-11 11:05:23 AM  
Mugato, Gunther

I don't think Mel really cares about winning Oscars (even though it may deserve some).
 
2005-02-11 11:05:34 AM  
Yeah. This movie was alright... but the book sucked! Ha!
 
2005-02-11 11:06:54 AM  
Clavis

You make a very good point and I believe that there were quite a few liberties taken in the Bible, as we now know it. If you research back, King James himself was reported to have had passages and even whole books changed or omitted (Pentateuch?) because they didn't fit with the popular view of that time. Can we say that the bible may have been altered? Certainly. Conversely, can we also say that some of the things, namely Jesus,also have truth (the teachings, etc)?

But the fact remains that many of the stories or lessons contained within it are inspirational. I think it is up to the reader to apply it to their own life. The problem lies where they choose not to think for themselves or question things logically. Which is why, I agree with most of your post. Fundamentalists choose not to think outside of the pages and take the written word as 100% true. They choose to ignore the politics, the environment, the culture and the time that these were written.

An objective view of the Bible can really be a healthy thing for anyone.
 
2005-02-11 11:07:04 AM  
Gunther,
Look up the Newton Project.
http://www.newtonproject.ic.ac.uk/

Intersesting stuff that Newton wrote
 
2005-02-11 11:07:18 AM  
I don't think Mel really cares about winning Oscars (even though it may deserve some).

And if he does, he's got about 200 million little green tissues to dry his tears on.
 
2005-02-11 11:09:34 AM  
No one ever lost their shirt selling gowns to the brides of Christ.
 
2005-02-11 11:10:11 AM  
CatholicSamurai:

Uh... have you done any research before you typed out this paragraph? People that don't believe Jesus existed are the ones who get laughed at and have the proverbial rotten fruit chucked at them. Jesus' divinity is what is in question, not His existance. Hell (no pun intended), there is more evidence (it seems) for Jesus' existance then there is for many other "ancient historical figures" that we are 100% certain existed.

Sorry, but theres no histiorical account of jesus's existence from a non-christian writer for several hundred years after his death. Of course, it's even more unlikely that someone just made him up, but it is a trifle curious that no-one who met him and didn't convert thought to write about him, don't you think?
 
2005-02-11 11:10:21 AM  
God DAMN IT.

When this thing came out the first round it drew all sorts of religious fundies in to the video I store where I work - telling me all about the glory of God and this and that bullshiat. This one really big guy had JESUS written on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS VISIBLE (I say visible because I didn't see his underwear or socks) PIECES OF CLOTHING. Shirt, Hat, Coat, Pants...

And all sorts of people are going to say things like how "that must have been what happened" and all this. Ughhhh

" And in the same way that a Holocaust film is important to see (however distrubing or gory), so is this."

No, the Holocaust actually happened - this film is like Shrek meets Hellraiser. Sorry, but I just don't believe any of it. Not that the bible isn't an excellent manual for controlling people - I just refuse to prioritize it as such.
 
2005-02-11 11:10:35 AM  
That headline is farking brilliant.
 
2005-02-11 11:10:51 AM  
TheHazMatGuy:

Am I the only person wondering if there is an "outtakes" video? Something like Jesus getting nailed to the cross, blood spattering everywhere and then someone starts giggling because they forgot their line?

No you're not, that's the first thing I thought of after seeing the movie. I desperately wanted to see multiple takes of James Caviezel practicing his tortured moans.

JC: Aaugh..
Mel: Cut, cut. James, I need more intensity. Action.
JC: AAAuughhh...
Mel: Cut! Come on, that's a nail straight through your freaking hand. I want to see your one good eye rolling back. Now action.
JC: AAAuuuggrhh..aaAAAAUGGGH-UURRRGH... (gurgle)
Mel: That's more like it.
 
2005-02-11 11:12:16 AM  
ChronicMasturbator

The types of Christians that people on Fark bash, would not come to Fark in the first place. They are too busy with bible study, trying to save people, etc...

If you are a Christian posting on fark, then we are not bashing you (unless you are Mike_71)...

//Went to one of my dad's church golf retreats... all they could talk about are their afflictions with porn. They can't even look at a pretty woman. If they do, they already commit the sin.
//hence the name


I am a conservative Christian and probably as conservative as you are going to find on Fark. Except for Bevets but I do not see him in any but evolution threads. I find it fascinating to study the disconnect between the culture and Christians and how badly it is misunderstood and how the internal battles in Christianity are viewed in the world. I get heckled and called names constantly but I have a thick skin and my faith is deeper than Fark can destroy. I find it all very fascinating.
 
2005-02-11 11:12:46 AM  
"Mel Gibson releases a movie that immediately captures the hearts and minds of evangelical Christians everywhere because it so perfectly captures the suffering of their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ."

Stop right there, that's the farking problem, you MORON.

Jesus's life should be remembered for what he taught and how he lived, not how he farking died. So he got crucified, whoppde-frickin-doo, so did 20 million other people. By focusing only on his death, you are dimishing all he did in his life, WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT. He came here and to give the Lord's lesson on life, not so he could spatter gore all over his followers so they could stroke off to it on DVD 2,000 years later.
 
2005-02-11 11:13:10 AM  
Farker_Taint

I read that some people think King James was a Richard smoker. Does it make sense that a ghey guy would want anti-ghey propaganda in the bible? He must have pissed off a priest/scribe or two. They put it in.

//The red states have spoken
 
2005-02-11 11:13:53 AM  
please

BRAVO! BRAVO!

The best point made yet!
 
2005-02-11 11:14:53 AM  
I suppose I am waiting for the 'speilburged' version where they all sit around talking on cell phones.
 
2005-02-11 11:15:12 AM  
Jesus's life should be remembered for what he taught and how he lived, not how he farking died. So he got crucified, whoppde-frickin-doo, so did 20 million other people. By focusing only on his death, you are dimishing all he did in his life, WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT. He came here and to give the Lord's lesson on life, not so he could spatter gore all over his followers so they could stroke off to it on DVD 2,000 years later.

Actually, you're wrong... the whole point IS His death and obedience to His Father's will and Eternal plan. Without His sacrifice, none of the other stuff matters, because we can get that from the Buddha and other generally nice people.
 
2005-02-11 11:15:18 AM  
The Passion is stupid and it stinks.

/yeah, I said it, bish!
 
2005-02-11 11:17:02 AM  
[it is a trifle curious that no-one who met him and didn't convert thought to write about him, don't you think?]

True...if I saw someone raise the dead and heal people , I think it might be worth penning down (assuming I was literate)
 
2005-02-11 11:17:11 AM  
Jesus's life should be remembered for what he taught and how he lived, not how he farking died. So he got crucified, whoppde-frickin-doo, so did 20 million other people. By focusing only on his death, you are dimishing all he did in his life, WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT. He came here and to give the Lord's lesson on life, not so he could spatter gore all over his followers so they could stroke off to it on DVD 2,000 years later.



That statement is a perfect example. Jesus's crucifiction is unique because he was the only truly innocent person who has ever lived. Perfect from the day he was conceived until right now this minute. He never said, thought or did any sin in his entire life. Everything he did and everything he said was perfect. His death WAS the point. More importantly his ressurection. Without it, his life would have meant no more then any other religious person who has ever lived. THAT is why the movie is important.
 
2005-02-11 11:17:11 AM  
walkingtall


I get heckled and called names constantly but I have a thick skin and my faith is deeper than Fark can destroy. I find it all very fascinating.


do you perceive that this is on account of either your conservatism, or your christianity?

don't want to spoil the surprise or anything, but i don't.
 
2005-02-11 11:18:38 AM  
ChronicMasturbator

I've also read about that as well. Interesting question and it really brings up a lot of other questions.

I can't really answer it, but I'll give it my best shot. The King still had to answer to the church to some degree, and by not playing to the popular teachings of the time, he would seal his own demise. That's just my view, and I could very well be wrong.

All in all, I view the Bible as an interesting piece of literature, and not the ultimate end-all-be-all.
 
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