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(Fark)   Smart light advice. Want lights that 1. can be turned off with physical switch, no app needed, 2. can also be controlled from a script I write, 3. do not need proprietary hub, 4. do not phone home (or at least work when firewalled), 5. have variety   (fark.com) divider line
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116 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 19 Mar 2023 at 2:45 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



31 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2023-03-18 10:35:57 PM  
Commenting to crib free advice.
 
2023-03-18 10:42:10 PM  

jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.


Maybe look into the old X10 gear if it's still available?

ZigBee might be able to do what you want.  I have the devices but hub(s) from the vendors.
 
2023-03-18 10:53:17 PM  
LIFX maybe.
 
2023-03-18 10:55:26 PM  

jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.


If you're using existing receptacles, the physical switch shouldn't be an issue.
As mentioned by Enry, Zigbee is great for versatility.

This video might offer some ideas for you to explore.
Building a Self Hosted Smart Lighting System using Node-RED & Zigbee2MQTT
Youtube zo0B6tXAFoM
 
2023-03-18 11:03:16 PM  

enry: jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.

Maybe look into the old X10 gear if it's still available?

ZigBee might be able to do what you want.  I have the devices but hub(s) from the vendors.


null: LIFX maybe.


Redh8t: jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.

If you're using existing receptacles, the physical switch shouldn't be an issue.
As mentioned by Enry, Zigbee is great for versatility.

This video might offer some ideas for you to explore.
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/zo0B6tXAFoM]


Thanks! I'm going to check all this stuff out. I thought I should clarify though, I'm not the submitter, and was literally just commenting to crib free advice. Lol but thanks all the same.
 
2023-03-18 11:38:56 PM  

jars.traptone: enry: jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.

Maybe look into the old X10 gear if it's still available?

ZigBee might be able to do what you want.  I have the devices but hub(s) from the vendors.

null: LIFX maybe.

Redh8t: jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.

If you're using existing receptacles, the physical switch shouldn't be an issue.
As mentioned by Enry, Zigbee is great for versatility.

This video might offer some ideas for you to explore.
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/zo0B6tXAFoM]

Thanks! I'm going to check all this stuff out. I thought I should clarify though, I'm not the submitter, and was literally just commenting to crib free advice. Lol but thanks all the same.


Heh!
All good, I thought you meant you were posting to get it into the Commented tab.

Perhaps subs doesn't have TF.
 
2023-03-18 11:49:12 PM  
You can DIY it if you can do some light circuit board design and soldering.
 
2023-03-19 1:02:46 AM  
Just buy lights that do what you want and get a TP-Link smart plug. They have a physical switch AND can be controlled with an app. You can also script them to turn the lights on and off with a Python package that's crowd supported.

Yeah, you can't change the colors of the lights with the plug, but this is a cheap option if you're concerned about cost.
 
2023-03-19 2:12:49 AM  
 
2023-03-19 2:34:46 AM  

Lsherm: Just buy lights that do what you want and get a TP-Link smart plug. They have a physical switch AND can be controlled with an app. You can also script them to turn the lights on and off with a Python package that's crowd supported.

Yeah, you can't change the colors of the lights with the plug, but this is a cheap option if you're concerned about cost.


Doesn't really work with dimming, either.  Nor for lights in fixtures.  Also may not be much cheaper if at all, a decent bulb runs you about $10-$15 these days, not much more than the smart plug.  Also nobody wants to reach down to a electrical socket to switch on a light.
 
2023-03-19 2:43:51 AM  

aerojockey: Lsherm: Just buy lights that do what you want and get a TP-Link smart plug. They have a physical switch AND can be controlled with an app. You can also script them to turn the lights on and off with a Python package that's crowd supported.

Yeah, you can't change the colors of the lights with the plug, but this is a cheap option if you're concerned about cost.

Doesn't really work with dimming, either.  Nor for lights in fixtures.  Also may not be much cheaper if at all, a decent bulb runs you about $10-$15 these days, not much more than the smart plug.  Also nobody wants to reach down to a electrical socket to switch on a light.


FFS, he wanted:

1. Physical switch
2. No app needed
3. Controlled from a script
4. Doesn't phone home

I met all those requirements if he uses the Python library for the API. It's just an on/off outlet switch. That's what I said from the beginning.

What he's leaving out in the request is that he wants a light package where he can control the colors without an app and scripting capability on top of that. I was pretty clear you only get on/off control. He will need to add a light package on top of that.

If you're doing it on the cheap, remote outlets are the way to go. If you want an entire apartment with programmable lights, then you have to buy programmable lights. I was offering a cheap, workable, and alternative solution.
 
2023-03-19 3:10:12 AM  

enry: jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.

Maybe look into the old X10 gear if it's still available?

ZigBee might be able to do what you want.  I have the devices but hub(s) from the vendors.


came here to mention "old school"

https://www.x10.com/

res.cloudinary.comView Full Size
 
2023-03-19 3:11:57 AM  

Lsherm: aerojockey: Lsherm: Just buy lights that do what you want and get a TP-Link smart plug. They have a physical switch AND can be controlled with an app. You can also script them to turn the lights on and off with a Python package that's crowd supported.

Yeah, you can't change the colors of the lights with the plug, but this is a cheap option if you're concerned about cost.

Doesn't really work with dimming, either.  Nor for lights in fixtures.  Also may not be much cheaper if at all, a decent bulb runs you about $10-$15 these days, not much more than the smart plug.  Also nobody wants to reach down to a electrical socket to switch on a light.

FFS, he wanted:

1. Physical switch
2. No app needed
3. Controlled from a script
4. Doesn't phone home

I met all those requirements if he uses the Python library for the API. It's just an on/off outlet switch. That's what I said from the beginning.

What he's leaving out in the request is that he wants a light package where he can control the colors without an app and scripting capability on top of that. I was pretty clear you only get on/off control. He will need to add a light package on top of that.

If you're doing it on the cheap, remote outlets are the way to go. If you want an entire apartment with programmable lights, then you have to buy programmable lights. I was offering a cheap, workable, and alternative solution.


I mean, I was just pointing out further limitations of your suggestion, but if you're going to go by the criteria in the headline then I'd say it fails #1, in spirit if not in fact.  A master switch on a socket is nothing like a lightswitch.  But hey, if the all you need is the highly narrow circumstances that it works for, you do you and save $10 or whatever.
 
2023-03-19 3:15:32 AM  
There is also this

media-amazon.comView Full Size

/script-able if you have a good sound card
 
2023-03-19 3:50:08 AM  
One of the most frustrating things about the smart lighting solutions out there is that nobody seems to appreciate that someone might want both actual smart lighting and a wall switch you can use to control the smart lights.  Like, both, at the same time.

They have "smart swtiches" that are designed to control dumb lights.

They also have "smart lights" that are not by default controlled with wall switches, you're supposed to use your phone.

It's very hard to find information on wall switches that control smart lights.  They do have them, I've seen them, and I guess they tend to call them "remote controls" or some such to differentiate them from "smart switches".  But it's hard to effectively google specifically for "remote control" solutions because Google helpfully decides that you're searching for smart switches and shows you that.  And product descriptions really don't help you know which one you're looking at since the copywriters are clueless idiots that probably don't know "remote control" switches even exist, and wouldn't have the capacity to understand them if even they were aware.
 
2023-03-19 3:57:45 AM  

aerojockey: I mean, I was just pointing out further limitations of your suggestion, but if you're going to go by the criteria in the headline then I'd say it fails #1, in spirit if not in fact.  A master switch on a socket is nothing like a lightswitch.  But hey, if the all you need is the highly narrow circumstances that it works for, you do you and save $10 or whatever.


He said "turned off with a physical switch."

Farker didn't say where it had to be located. You want better results? Get more specific requirements.
 
2023-03-19 4:03:19 AM  
So, if I am reading this right subby, you want to give hackers a free pass into your home network just to have some pretty lights?
 
2023-03-19 4:15:15 AM  

aerojockey: One of the most frustrating things about the smart lighting solutions out there is that nobody seems to appreciate that someone might want both actual smart lighting and a wall switch you can use to control the smart lights.  Like, both, at the same time.

They have "smart swtiches" that are designed to control dumb lights.

They also have "smart lights" that are not by default controlled with wall switches, you're supposed to use your phone.

It's very hard to find information on wall switches that control smart lights.  They do have them, I've seen them, and I guess they tend to call them "remote controls" or some such to differentiate them from "smart switches".  But it's hard to effectively google specifically for "remote control" solutions because Google helpfully decides that you're searching for smart switches and shows you that.  And product descriptions really don't help you know which one you're looking at since the copywriters are clueless idiots that probably don't know "remote control" switches even exist, and wouldn't have the capacity to understand them if even they were aware.


Oh, me again, you can buy one of these:

Fark user imageView Full Size



https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-8-Outlet-Conserve-Protector-F7C01008q/dp/B003P2UMNK

Comes with a giant remote you can stick on the wall:

Fark user image

So that's another solution to #1.
 
2023-03-19 4:18:20 AM  

Lsherm: aerojockey: I mean, I was just pointing out further limitations of your suggestion, but if you're going to go by the criteria in the headline then I'd say it fails #1, in spirit if not in fact.  A master switch on a socket is nothing like a lightswitch.  But hey, if the all you need is the highly narrow circumstances that it works for, you do you and save $10 or whatever.

He said "turned off with a physical switch."

Farker didn't say where it had to be located. You want better results? Get more specific requirements.


Do you not know what "in spirit if not in fact" means?
 
2023-03-19 4:22:29 AM  

Concrete Donkey: So, if I am reading this right subby, you want to give hackers a free pass into your home network just to have some pretty lights?


Your trolling attempt might have landed if headline didn't specifically ask for a device that does not phone home.  I.e., specifically avoiding giving hackers a free pass.

Better luck next time, pla.
 
2023-03-19 4:42:34 AM  

aerojockey: Do you not know what "in spirit if not in fact" means?


I do, the original would be "spirit vs the letter of the law"  - which even then could be drawn all the way back to the goddamn bible and a Jesus parable.

I followed up with a power strip with what could be used as a wall switch. Coupled with a smart plug and cheap lights, Subby might be able to do what he wants.
 
2023-03-19 5:19:41 AM  
Okay, after some furious and somewhat angry searching, I finally stumbled into a search term that Google took seriously and actually gave me something along the lines I was looking for.  But I'll get to that later.  Here's what I found.


There's the Phillips smart dimmer, which I believe requires the Phillips Hue hub and probably only works well with Phillips lights, but at least somebody understands the need for a wall switch for smart lights:

https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-dimmer-switch--latest-model-/046677562779

There are the Caseta Pico remotes, which, however, don't appear to be something you can interact with with scripting:

https://www.casetawireless.com/us/en/products/pico-remotes


I already knew about those two from the last time I researched and decided to pass on smart lighting, and I thought maybe a year later some other smart light producers would have stepped up with wall switches.  And, for all I know, maybe some did, but God only knows because it's pretty much impossible to get search engines to give you that information.

Finally I entered the query "smart button" and I saw this:

https://flic.io/

This solution still needs a hub, but maybe at least it's not a hub that's tied into a particular brand of smart lights?

Still haven't found any smart buttons/switches that are just WiFi.  I saw some Zigbee ones, but Zigbee seems to be hit or miss with device support.


RANT
And I think it's ridiculously backward that the home page for the Flic smart buttons can use, "You can replace your voice control!!!!", as a selling point.  Like, the people who developed all this smart home technology were so monomaniacal about tying in smart devices with voice control that the easy thing (an effing switch) never even crossed their effing minds, and now consumers think a smart button is a newfangled thing to make life simpler and not just a result of the designers being complete farking idiots who didn't implement it in the first place.
/RANT
 
2023-03-19 7:03:46 AM  

aerojockey: Still haven't found any smart buttons/switches that are just WiFi.


The older Belkin Wemo products were plain Wifi. Looks like their only current outlet uses Thread instead, but there are plenty of the old ones on Amazon still.
 
2023-03-19 7:22:43 AM  
I've got the Globe Electric slimline led. The diodes are good quality, it has an app, integrates with Google home, and can be turned off with a physical switch. Just can't be dimmed with a dimmer.

https://globe-electric.com/en/product/smart-4-ultra-slim-recessed-lighting-kit
 
2023-03-19 7:28:58 AM  
This would get way more into building, and I don't know if there is a light socket that would work for subby's needs/wants, but are there Arduino and/or Raspberry Pi projects that would do this? I know a guy who had all kinds of home automation that he built himself, and, AFAIK, didn't "phone home" to a vendor. I don't know if he had any light sockets.
 
2023-03-19 8:25:28 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: enry: jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.

Maybe look into the old X10 gear if it's still available?

ZigBee might be able to do what you want.  I have the devices but hub(s) from the vendors.

came here to mention "old school"

https://www.x10.com/

[res.cloudinary.com image 850x850]


Yessir. I have two bedroom lights - one uses X-10 that I've literally used since the mid-80s. The other is Alexa voice controlled.
 
2023-03-19 10:55:58 AM  
 
2023-03-19 11:18:04 AM  

aerojockey: One of the most frustrating things about the smart lighting solutions out there is that nobody seems to appreciate that someone might want both actual smart lighting and a wall switch you can use to control the smart lights.  Like, both, at the same time.

They have "smart swtiches" that are designed to control dumb lights.

They also have "smart lights" that are not by default controlled with wall switches, you're supposed to use your phone.

It's very hard to find information on wall switches that control smart lights.  They do have them, I've seen them, and I guess they tend to call them "remote controls" or some such to differentiate them from "smart switches".  But it's hard to effectively google specifically for "remote control" solutions because Google helpfully decides that you're searching for smart switches and shows you that.  And product descriptions really don't help you know which one you're looking at since the copywriters are clueless idiots that probably don't know "remote control" switches even exist, and wouldn't have the capacity to understand them if even they were aware.


Smart lights are intended for voice, that's why switches don't work quite right with them. Though usually for most smart bulbs, If you cycle the switch twice it will listen to you.
 
2023-03-19 4:38:38 PM  

phimuskapsi: Smart lights are intended for voice,


Not exactly.  The smart lights themselves don't understand voice (usually, maybe a few do), the voice commands are interpreted by another device (Alexa or whatever) that sends commands to the lights using various communication methods (WiFi, Bluetooth, a proprietary RF system, etc.).  There's nothing inherent about the lights that require voice control; in theory, you could control the lights with any number of input methods, including a button or switch that can communicate with the smart light.

The problem is, the people who designed smart lighting systems originally only implemented voice control and app control, which led to the ludicrous situation that, lacking a voice control system, you had turn on lights in your house with your phone. It didn't occur to these bozos that someone might want to control a light with a switch or button.

You are right that trying to control a smart light by cutting power, as you do with conventional dumb lights, does not usually work that well, smart lights definitely aren't designed for that.  From last night's furious Googling, it appears that manufacturers are slowly starting to realize some people want to be able to do that, and the lights are designed to cope with that situation better.  But, you know, that might have been unnecessary if they had just made light-switch-like input devices that you could use to command smart lights from the beginning.
 
2023-03-19 5:04:11 PM  

aerojockey: The problem is, the people who designed smart lighting systems originally only implemented voice control and app control, which led to the ludicrous situation that, lacking a voice control system, you had turn on lights in your house with your phone. It didn't occur to these bozos that someone might want to control a light with a switch or button.


Also motion detection, which is a better use overall, and easier to keep contained to a stand-alone unit. 

That being said, I use Alexa for everything, though I keep all of my smart devices isolated on their own router/network.
 
2023-03-20 5:05:57 AM  

jars.traptone: Commenting to crib free advice.


Otherwise known as 'kramkoob'...
 
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