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(Talking Points Memo)   Manchin proposes stabbing America in the back so Republicans will pretend to like him   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, United States, Negotiation, Hostage, Joe Biden, Leadership, White House, Conversation, Economy  
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2928 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Feb 2023 at 9:35 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



65 Comments     (+0 »)
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2023-02-08 1:05:00 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-08 9:38:34 PM  
Perhaps coupling budgeting and the debt ceiling together would be the rational thing to do.
 
2023-02-08 9:39:05 PM  
Yeah. Let him try. And Biden will show him what else his veto pen is good for.
 
2023-02-08 9:39:35 PM  
eat shiat Manchin
 
2023-02-08 9:41:28 PM  
Gosh, he's just so moderate.
 
2023-02-08 9:44:13 PM  

Glicky: Perhaps coupling budgeting and the debt ceiling together would be the rational thing to do.


I've *always* wondered if there isn't a legal argument in there somewhere.

Spending bills are authorized by the entire US congress. At a fundamental level, how can it be legally argued that the funding mechanism separate at all? If somehow Congress voted against raising the debt ceiling, and Treasury borrows more anyway to pay for their funding, what precisely would happen?
 
2023-02-08 9:47:22 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


"The face-eating leopards in sheep's clothing won't eat anybody's faces *this time*!"
 
2023-02-08 9:47:50 PM  
I do not look forward to all the retirees protesting in the streets.
 
2023-02-08 9:48:57 PM  
I just ... what makes people be like this? Just be absolute pieces of sh*t? I'll never get it, but that's because I just don't care about money or power, I guess.

/I only care about money insofar as capitalism requires me to, because otherwise I'll die.
 
2023-02-08 9:49:41 PM  
I can't stand it , I know you planned it.
 
2023-02-08 9:50:01 PM  
The Democratic Party's Favorite Senator being a stupid right wing asshole again?

Of course he is! That's why he's the party's favorite Senator.
 
2023-02-08 9:50:32 PM  

austerity101: I just ... what makes people be like this? Just be absolute pieces of sh*t? I'll never get it, but that's because I just don't care about money or power, I guess.

/I only care about money insofar as capitalism requires me to, because otherwise I'll die.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-08 9:54:53 PM  
Gize, gize, gize

1955 HITS ARCHIVE: Smack Dab In The Middle - Mills Brothers
Youtube U785b6PRgIw
 
2023-02-08 9:55:42 PM  

Weatherkiss: Gosh, he's just so moderate.


this is what the party needs not woke socialism
 
2023-02-08 9:57:18 PM  
Don't blame me I voted for Drmocrats.

wait what's this now
 
2023-02-08 10:01:13 PM  
Well, he's not in the House, so what the fark difference does his opinion make? There's no House-Senate compromise needed here. The House has to figure out what they can reasonably pass.
 
2023-02-08 10:01:39 PM  

Weatherkiss: Gosh, he's just so moderate.


The word that the republicans like to use a lot whenever they talk about wrecking Social Security is "bold". The media gushes about how "bold" the GQP is for making such demands.

But then you realize that the GQP is using the word "bold" in place of the word "cruel".

So, what they really have are CRUEL ideas and that the GQP is being CRUEL in their policies..
 
2023-02-08 10:01:42 PM  

Palined Parenthood: Weatherkiss: Gosh, he's just so moderate.

this is what the party needs not woke socialism


Coming to a public library near you:
Fark user imageView Full Size


*offer not valid in FL, ND, MO, TX, LA, TN and WY
 
2023-02-08 10:02:37 PM  
"This is a democracy that we have. We have a two-party system," Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) said on CNN's State of the Union. "And we should be able to talk and find out where our differences are. And if they are irreconcilable, then you have to move on from there and let the people make their decisions."

He's right, the Republicans have shown to be untrustworthy and the differences are irreconcilable. Let's move on and let the adults in the room ignore the howler monkeys.
 
2023-02-08 10:04:22 PM  
Oh look, Manchin's being an asshole again.

I can't wait for his fans to storm the thread so they can make a public display of clutching their pearls over the lack of civility being aimed in Manchin's direction.
 
2023-02-08 10:05:29 PM  
I donated to his campaign.
 
2023-02-08 10:05:52 PM  
daytimeconfidential.comView Full Size

Senator Joe Manchin assures Democrats that he is also a Democrat and totally on their side.
 
2023-02-08 10:10:32 PM  

Murkanen: I can't wait for his fans to st


He. Has. No. Fans.

Also, fark that guy
 
2023-02-08 10:10:38 PM  
Republicans threatening a federal default like

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-08 10:10:41 PM  
Maybe he can talk Sinema into offering hummers to the GOP.  She's proven she'll do anything for money.
 
2023-02-08 10:11:04 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-08 10:11:28 PM  

phaseolus: He. Has. No. Fans.


...well, okay, except for some shiathead libertarian maybe
 
2023-02-08 10:15:21 PM  

clkeagle: Glicky: Perhaps coupling budgeting and the debt ceiling together would be the rational thing to do.

I've *always* wondered if there isn't a legal argument in there somewhere.

Spending bills are authorized by the entire US congress. At a fundamental level, how can it be legally argued that the funding mechanism separate at all? If somehow Congress voted against raising the debt ceiling, and Treasury borrows more anyway to pay for their funding, what precisely would happen?


The debt ceiling is arguably unconstitutional. At the very least the we have laws that mutually self-contradictory. The executive can't follow both laws---it has to pick one. Then I guess the courts will have to sort it out.
 
2023-02-08 10:17:39 PM  
LOL! "moderates"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-08 10:20:09 PM  
What do the kids say on Twitter? "Look at that ratio!" Manchin is like Sinema wearing one high heel while the other foot is bare.
 
2023-02-08 10:22:17 PM  
"This is a democracy that we have. We have a two-party system," Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) said on CNN's State of the Union

Well?  Which is it Manchin?  Is it a Democracy or is it a two-party system?  'Cuz I gotta tell you, if it were a democracy, we'd have gun control, health care and an entirely different police force.

For fun, let's take a peek at the 14th amendment:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

I wonder whatever that could mean?
 
2023-02-08 10:26:48 PM  
I still do not understand how someone has not put on scuba gear and drilled a hole in the bottom of Joe Manchin's houseboat.
 
2023-02-08 10:34:12 PM  

foo monkey: I still do not understand how someone has not put on scuba gear and drilled a hole in the bottom of Joe Manchin's houseboat.


Nobody wants to do him the double-favor of sympathetic press and a massive cash payout from his insurance policy.
 
2023-02-08 10:37:41 PM  

fruit flies like a banana: clkeagle: Glicky: Perhaps coupling budgeting and the debt ceiling together would be the rational thing to do.

I've *always* wondered if there isn't a legal argument in there somewhere.

Spending bills are authorized by the entire US congress. At a fundamental level, how can it be legally argued that the funding mechanism separate at all? If somehow Congress voted against raising the debt ceiling, and Treasury borrows more anyway to pay for their funding, what precisely would happen?

The debt ceiling is arguably unconstitutional. At the very least the we have laws that mutually self-contradictory. The executive can't follow both laws---it has to pick one. Then I guess the courts will have to sort it out.


yep, this is the argument you are looking for.

the 14th amendment says
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

it is unconstitutional for the US to default.  any law passed by congress which directly causes a default is therefore unconstitutional.
that hasn't happened YET.  but in and on the moment it the clock ticks over that mark i think you have a pretty solid argument that the US doesn't go into default...instead 31USC3101 becomes unenforceable and the limit disappears.  b/c it is, on face, in violation of the 14th at that point since congress has failed to provide some other means of keeping the US's debt valid.
 
2023-02-08 10:43:38 PM  

austerity101: I just ... what makes people be like this? Just be absolute pieces of sh*t? I'll never get it, but that's because I just don't care about money or power, I guess.

/I only care about money insofar as capitalism requires me to, because otherwise I'll die.


Hey, remember when his daughter jacked up prices of epipens to obscene levels, then he sponsored legislation to force restaurants to have a certain number of epipens on site?
 
2023-02-08 10:46:58 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: austerity101: I just ... what makes people be like this? Just be absolute pieces of sh*t? I'll never get it, but that's because I just don't care about money or power, I guess.

/I only care about money insofar as capitalism requires me to, because otherwise I'll die.

Hey, remember when his daughter jacked up prices of epipens to obscene levels, then he sponsored legislation to force restaurants to have a certain number of epipens on site?


I remember when he endorsed two of Trump's three evangelical appointees to the Supreme Court.
 
2023-02-08 10:48:06 PM  
BUt alWAyS Vote blUe NO MaTTer wHo!
 
2023-02-08 10:50:33 PM  

oopsboom: fruit flies like a banana: clkeagle: Glicky: Perhaps coupling budgeting and the debt ceiling together would be the rational thing to do.

I've *always* wondered if there isn't a legal argument in there somewhere.

Spending bills are authorized by the entire US congress. At a fundamental level, how can it be legally argued that the funding mechanism separate at all? If somehow Congress voted against raising the debt ceiling, and Treasury borrows more anyway to pay for their funding, what precisely would happen?

The debt ceiling is arguably unconstitutional. At the very least the we have laws that mutually self-contradictory. The executive can't follow both laws---it has to pick one. Then I guess the courts will have to sort it out.

yep, this is the argument you are looking for.

the 14th amendment says
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

it is unconstitutional for the US to default.  any law passed by congress which directly causes a default is therefore unconstitutional.
that hasn't happened YET.  but in and on the moment it the clock ticks over that mark i think you have a pretty solid argument that the US doesn't go into default...instead 31USC3101 becomes unenforceable and the limit disappears.  b/c it is, on face, in violation of the 14th at that point since congress has failed to provide some other means of keeping the US's debt valid.


Unfortunately, we don't really seem to care much about the 14th, otherwise most of the GQP would have been removed from office and barred from holding further office after 1/6/2021
 
2023-02-08 10:52:42 PM  

TheMarvelousLibertarian: I donated to his campaign.


Woah, buddy, we don't need your whole life story.  Sheesh.  Save it for the therapist you obviously don't go to.
 
2023-02-08 10:53:37 PM  

LordJiro: Unfortunately, we don't really seem to care much about the 14th, otherwise most of the GQP would have been removed from office and barred from holding further office after 1/6/2021


remember, we're not a democracy.  we're a nation of peasants mostly controlled via propaganda rained down on us from the billionaires in their penthouses.

if you keep that in mind then the relative threats of j6 vs debt default come into clearer focus.
 
2023-02-08 10:57:12 PM  
I don't think Manchin's position is really different from Biden's. He said "we should be able to talk and find out where our differences are. And if they are irreconcilable, then you have to move on from there and let the people make their decisions."

Biden has not completely closed the door to negotiation either, he's just not going to do their job for them. He's calling McCarthy's bluff, telling him "Show me your budget, I'll show you mine." I think Biden and Manchin both know the differences are irreconcilable, but there's no point in looking like the unreasonable one by saying that before seeing a plan.

The Republicans are acting like they have a 30-seat majority, but they don't. They have an incredibly weak hand. They have a 5 seat majority, and 18 Republicans who got elected in districts Biden won. If McCarthy doesn't cave, he's going to end up with a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling passed via discharge position, making him look like an idiot.
 
2023-02-08 11:03:17 PM  
Remember when Obama tried to work toward bipartisan budget cuts with Republicans, and no agreement could be reached, so sequestration cuts (which were the penalty/very bad outcome both sides had agreed to) went into effect, and Republicans just lied and lied about how "Obama is harming our military!"

I certainly do.
 
2023-02-08 11:05:14 PM  
Why oh why won't Biden promise to write & pass a future House bill to slash spending?

Oh yeah, cause he can't write bills.  And he's not in the House.  And McCarthy won't bring anything by a D up for vote.  Those seem like pretty good reasons, really.
 
2023-02-08 11:11:38 PM  
Worried about the debt? Raise the corporate tax rate back up to at least 40%.
 
2023-02-08 11:27:29 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Weatherkiss: Gosh, he's just so moderate.

The word that the republicans like to use a lot whenever they talk about wrecking Social Security is "bold". The media gushes about how "bold" the GQP is for making such demands.

But then you realize that the GQP is using the word "bold" in place of the word "cruel".

So, what they really have are CRUEL ideas and that the GQP is being CRUEL in their policies..


Bold implies courage, their actions denote impertanance
 
2023-02-09 12:16:38 AM  

Bruscar: [daytimeconfidential.com image 850x1056]
Senator Joe Manchin assures Democrats that he is also a Democrat and totally on their side.


Also pictured: Democrats insisting we do nothing to replace him with anyone else, ever, for any reason.
 
2023-02-09 12:18:49 AM  
uberhumor.comView Full Size
 
2023-02-09 12:26:29 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: Bruscar: [daytimeconfidential.com image 850x1056]
Senator Joe Manchin assures Democrats that he is also a Democrat and totally on their side.

Also pictured: Democrats insisting we do nothing to replace him with anyone else, ever, for any reason.


The last one who tried lost by like 60 points. What's your next idea, you political genius?
 
2023-02-09 12:31:09 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: austerity101: I just ... what makes people be like this? Just be absolute pieces of sh*t? I'll never get it, but that's because I just don't care about money or power, I guess.

/I only care about money insofar as capitalism requires me to, because otherwise I'll die.

Hey, remember when his daughter jacked up prices of epipens to obscene levels, then he sponsored legislation to force restaurants to have a certain number of epipens on site?


Apparently, Rick Scott has taught him well.
 
2023-02-09 12:31:46 AM  

monsatano: Anonymous Bosch: Bruscar: [daytimeconfidential.com image 850x1056]
Senator Joe Manchin assures Democrats that he is also a Democrat and totally on their side.

Also pictured: Democrats insisting we do nothing to replace him with anyone else, ever, for any reason.

The last one who tried lost by like 60 points. What's your next idea, you political genius?


Also - that seat goes R as soon as manchin retires. He literally just wins on name recognition there - absolutely no way in farking hell another Dem wins a senate seat in that state. If you're think it's possible, name one candidate
 
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