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(Tech Xplore)   1-2-3 green light; 1-2-3 red light; 1-2-3 white light. White?   (techxplore.com) divider line
48
    More: Interesting, Traffic, Traffic light, Computer, Commercial vehicle, Yellow, traffic light, white light, Intersection (road)  
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1040 clicks; posted to STEM » on 08 Feb 2023 at 12:30 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



48 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
mongbiohazard [BareFark]
2023-02-08 12:37:37 AM  
FTFA: The white phase concept rests on the fact that it is possible for AVs to communicate wirelessly with both each other and the computer controlling the traffic signal. When enough AVs are approaching the intersection, this would activate the white light. The white light is a signal that AVs are coordinating their movement to facilitate traffic through the intersection more efficiently. Any non-automated vehicles-those being driven by a person-would simply be required to follow the vehicle in front of them: if the car in front of them stops, they stop; if the car in front of them goes through the intersection, they go through the intersection.

This is easy, simple, reasonable... and utterly doomed to failure because it requires humans to follow that easy, simple, reasonable rule.

I've seen how we drive.
 
Get Rich or Try Dyin'
2023-02-08 12:40:01 AM  
Social Distortion - White Light White Heat White Trash
Youtube CPZ7l7BZP0E
 
Benevolent Misanthrope [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 1:16:42 AM  

mongbiohazard: FTFA: The white phase concept rests on the fact that it is possible for AVs to communicate wirelessly with both each other and the computer controlling the traffic signal. When enough AVs are approaching the intersection, this would activate the white light. The white light is a signal that AVs are coordinating their movement to facilitate traffic through the intersection more efficiently. Any non-automated vehicles-those being driven by a person-would simply be required to follow the vehicle in front of them: if the car in front of them stops, they stop; if the car in front of them goes through the intersection, they go through the intersection.

This is easy, simple, reasonable... and utterly doomed to failure because it requires humans to follow that easy, simple, reasonable rule.

I've seen how we drive.


Every f*cking republican out there would be enraged and refuse to follow the direction, because it's a violation of their freedom to drive.
 
Archie Goodwin
2023-02-08 1:23:47 AM  
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size



Any non-automated vehicles-those being driven by a person-would simply be required to follow the vehicle in front of them: if the car in front of them stops, they stop; if the car in front of them goes through the intersection, they go through the intersection.

Thanks for that important driving tip, Ric.
 
mongbiohazard [BareFark]
2023-02-08 1:25:23 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: mongbiohazard: FTFA: The white phase concept rests on the fact that it is possible for AVs to communicate wirelessly with both each other and the computer controlling the traffic signal. When enough AVs are approaching the intersection, this would activate the white light. The white light is a signal that AVs are coordinating their movement to facilitate traffic through the intersection more efficiently. Any non-automated vehicles-those being driven by a person-would simply be required to follow the vehicle in front of them: if the car in front of them stops, they stop; if the car in front of them goes through the intersection, they go through the intersection.

This is easy, simple, reasonable... and utterly doomed to failure because it requires humans to follow that easy, simple, reasonable rule.

I've seen how we drive.

Every f*cking republican out there would be enraged and refuse to follow the direction, because it's a violation of their freedom to drive.


Some significant percentage of people WILL try and game it constantly.
 
We Ate the Necco Wafers
2023-02-08 1:29:40 AM  
static.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
Rezurok
2023-02-08 1:36:23 AM  
From the description it sounds like this is only feasible at an intersection with a single lane of travel in each direction, and I can't think of even one traffic signal near me where the intersection has a single lane in each direction.
 
Wine Sipping Elitist [TotalFark]
2023-02-08 2:43:26 AM  
For some reason this article reminded me of a rap video where Shaquille O'Neal says "Auto-PC play so and so *it fails to do so* AUTO-PC PLAY SO AND SO *it fails to do so*"

Tried the search engines but all I found was this pic of him and Bill Gates. Apparently Shaq bought his first computer directly from Bill or something.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
wildcardjack
2023-02-08 2:46:36 AM  
I remember the first time I saw a flashing yellow yield on a turn lane. Had a sign in English explaining it. In a part of Dallas where Spanish predominated. It's the humans you have to explain these changes to that are the problem.
 
Bob Down
2023-02-08 3:59:13 AM  
Where I come from, white lights in front of me mean I'm on the wrong side of the road again. Possibly all the other cars, but probably whiskey. Weeee!
 
dbirchall [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 4:09:52 AM  
The white light shining in your face from above means you're on the road to Damascus.
 
SiotMoc
2023-02-08 4:27:27 AM  
In certain areas of Canada, we already have a "white" light. It turns on 5 seconds before the green light and gives priority for buses.
qph.cf2.quoracdn.netView Full Size
 
hlehmann
2023-02-08 5:34:35 AM  
I have red-green color blindness, as do a few percent of all males. Large areas of color usually aren't a problem, but things like small LEDs that switch between green and yellow to indicate good or bad irritate me to no end.  In a server room where there is one hard drive with a yellow LED and all the rest are green, I have to ask someone else to point out the yellow one to me.
To me, green traffic lights have always appeared to be nearly colorless, which I'm assuming is caused by the same color blindness.  I know they're "green" lights, of course, because they're neither red nor yellow.
If they start adding white traffic lights to the mix I generally won't be able to tell them apart from green lights.

/ Much of my work, ironically, involves color science, but it's just software & math stuff, not having to visually interpret colors.
 
Quantumbunny
2023-02-08 6:16:07 AM  

hlehmann: I have red-green color blindness, as do a few percent of all males. Large areas of color usually aren't a problem, but things like small LEDs that switch between green and yellow to indicate good or bad irritate me to no end.  In a server room where there is one hard drive with a yellow LED and all the rest are green, I have to ask someone else to point out the yellow one to me.
To me, green traffic lights have always appeared to be nearly colorless, which I'm assuming is caused by the same color blindness.  I know they're "green" lights, of course, because they're neither red nor yellow.
If they start adding white traffic lights to the mix I generally won't be able to tell them apart from green lights.

/ Much of my work, ironically, involves color science, but it's just software & math stuff, not having to visually interpret colors.


Must folks that are colorblind have red/green colorblindness, the 3 worst colors for them to distinguish are the 3 we already used in traffic lights.

That's why there's a standard for position. You'll never see a traffic light that is red on bottom, green on top, for example. Or in high wind areas with horizontal, it's red on the left, green on the right.

White would just be added in the same spot on all of them, and if you see the 4th one is lit up, not the other 3, you'll know what to do.
 
kyleaugustus
2023-02-08 7:02:12 AM  

SiotMoc: In certain areas of Canada, we already have a "white" light. It turns on 5 seconds before the green light and gives priority for buses.
[qph.cf2.quoracdn.net image 602x339]


Some areas in the US have a similar signal for street-running trains.  The River Line in New Jersey is one.
 
natazha [BareFark]
2023-02-08 8:20:28 AM  

mongbiohazard: FTFA: The white phase concept rests on the fact that it is possible for AVs to communicate wirelessly with both each other and the computer controlling the traffic signal. When enough AVs are approaching the intersection, this would activate the white light. The white light is a signal that AVs are coordinating their movement to facilitate traffic through the intersection more efficiently. Any non-automated vehicles-those being driven by a person-would simply be required to follow the vehicle in front of them: if the car in front of them stops, they stop; if the car in front of them goes through the intersection, they go through the intersection.

This is easy, simple, reasonable... and utterly doomed to failure because it requires humans to follow that easy, simple, reasonable rule.

I've seen how we drive.


As long as people are convinced that 'yellow' means step on it, as in forever.
 
technoblogical
2023-02-08 8:38:52 AM  

Quantumbunny: hlehmann: I have red-green color blindness, as do a few percent of all males. Large areas of color usually aren't a problem, but things like small LEDs that switch between green and yellow to indicate good or bad irritate me to no end.  In a server room where there is one hard drive with a yellow LED and all the rest are green, I have to ask someone else to point out the yellow one to me.
To me, green traffic lights have always appeared to be nearly colorless, which I'm assuming is caused by the same color blindness.  I know they're "green" lights, of course, because they're neither red nor yellow.
If they start adding white traffic lights to the mix I generally won't be able to tell them apart from green lights.

/ Much of my work, ironically, involves color science, but it's just software & math stuff, not having to visually interpret colors.

Must folks that are colorblind have red/green colorblindness, the 3 worst colors for them to distinguish are the 3 we already used in traffic lights.

That's why there's a standard for position. You'll never see a traffic light that is red on bottom, green on top, for example. Or in high wind areas with horizontal, it's red on the left, green on the right.

White would just be added in the same spot on all of them, and if you see the 4th one is lit up, not the other 3, you'll know what to do.


At night in the dark, you can't tell which light is the top or the bottom because you can't see the case, only the light.

At night, if there is a large parking lot behind that traffic light, I often lose that green traffic light in a sea of white parking lot lights. Then it turns red and surprises me with its existence! I tend to scan the road lines a lot to find intersections, but states have gotten really bad at repainting these days.

In Texas (and probably other hurricane states), traffic lights are sideways. Your standard isn't a standard.
 
technoblogical
2023-02-08 8:40:24 AM  
Also, I can see the yellow and red. I can see really old green lights, but LED lights are always white. I'm that level of color blind.
 
Catsaregreen
2023-02-08 8:42:03 AM  
WTF? Do researchers not know that 15% of males have various degrees of red/green colorblindness? To me, the "green" light has always been white/gray - in fact, I see it as the same color as headlights. That'll make driving even more fun!
 
Flowery Twats
2023-02-08 8:48:13 AM  

Quantumbunny: hlehmann: I have red-green color blindness, as do a few percent of all males. Large areas of color usually aren't a problem, but things like small LEDs that switch between green and yellow to indicate good or bad irritate me to no end.  In a server room where there is one hard drive with a yellow LED and all the rest are green, I have to ask someone else to point out the yellow one to me.
To me, green traffic lights have always appeared to be nearly colorless, which I'm assuming is caused by the same color blindness.  I know they're "green" lights, of course, because they're neither red nor yellow.
If they start adding white traffic lights to the mix I generally won't be able to tell them apart from green lights.

/ Much of my work, ironically, involves color science, but it's just software & math stuff, not having to visually interpret colors.

Must folks that are colorblind have red/green colorblindness, the 3 worst colors for them to distinguish are the 3 we already used in traffic lights.

That's why there's a standard for position. You'll never see a traffic light that is red on bottom, green on top, for example. Or in high wind areas with horizontal, it's red on the left, green on the right.

White would just be added in the same spot on all of them, and if you see the 4th one is lit up, not the other 3, you'll know what to do.


I have pulled over for a LOT of tow trucks.

Red/Green color blind here. My problem is with red and yellow incandescent lights, and green traffic lights with mercury vapor streetlights. Thankfully, both of those are history in most places. But the "old" yellow-green LEDs (not the new "traffic light green" ones) are a problem, as are the old tricolor ones. The yellow and red LEDs are still a problem, particularly when they are bicolor.
 
Flowery Twats
2023-02-08 8:51:59 AM  

Quantumbunny: hlehmann: I have red-green color blindness, as do a few percent of all males. Large areas of color usually aren't a problem, but things like small LEDs that switch between green and yellow to indicate good or bad irritate me to no end.  In a server room where there is one hard drive with a yellow LED and all the rest are green, I have to ask someone else to point out the yellow one to me.
To me, green traffic lights have always appeared to be nearly colorless, which I'm assuming is caused by the same color blindness.  I know they're "green" lights, of course, because they're neither red nor yellow.
If they start adding white traffic lights to the mix I generally won't be able to tell them apart from green lights.

/ Much of my work, ironically, involves color science, but it's just software & math stuff, not having to visually interpret colors.

Must folks that are colorblind have red/green colorblindness, the 3 worst colors for them to distinguish are the 3 we already used in traffic lights.

That's why there's a standard for position. You'll never see a traffic light that is red on bottom, green on top, for example. Or in high wind areas with horizontal, it's red on the left, green on the right.

White would just be added in the same spot on all of them, and if you see the 4th one is lit up, not the other 3, you'll know what to do.


In most places a red right arrow means no turns. In Massachusetts, it's treated as a stop sign. I looked it up...go figure. They'll change it in a few years, I'm sure. When in doubt, I just stop. There seems to be a trend towards doing weird things with arrow lights nowadays...red/yellow, blinking, etc.
 
lilbjorn
2023-02-08 9:25:05 AM  
White light?  Surely that won't be a problem - or an invitation to "pranksters".
 
Archie Goodwin
2023-02-08 9:25:16 AM  

Archie Goodwin: [pbs.twimg.com image 400x400]


I was wrong

live.staticflickr.comView Full Size
 
WelldeadLink
2023-02-08 9:38:24 AM  
Any light is white if there's enough snow.
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 10:56:30 AM  

mongbiohazard: This is easy, simple, reasonable... and utterly doomed to failure because it requires humans to follow that easy, simple, reasonable rule.

I've seen how we drive.


The question is, do you trust the machine to be right every time? Would you be comfortable crossing an intersection, at speed, without looking as to what is coming when it is not green? I'm not sure I would.
 
dbirchall [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 11:14:40 AM  

Flowery Twats: In most places a red right arrow means no turns. In Massachusetts, it's treated as a stop sign. I looked it up...go figure. They'll change it in a few years, I'm sure. When in doubt, I just stop. There seems to be a trend towards doing weird things with arrow lights nowadays...red/yellow, blinking, etc.


Yeah, you can tell whether someone's from around here by what they do when they see a flashing yellow arrow.
 
mongbiohazard [BareFark]
2023-02-08 11:23:34 AM  

phimuskapsi: mongbiohazard: This is easy, simple, reasonable... and utterly doomed to failure because it requires humans to follow that easy, simple, reasonable rule.

I've seen how we drive.

The question is, do you trust the machine to be right every time? Would you be comfortable crossing an intersection, at speed, without looking as to what is coming when it is not green? I'm not sure I would.


I'd trust a machine over human drivers, yes. Not even a hard decision.

Humans make shiatty drivers. We evolved to job, not barrel along at 3 or 4 times our natural speed limit in a cage of a few thousand pounds of steel.
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 11:30:23 AM  

mongbiohazard: I'd trust a machine over human drivers, yes. Not even a hard decision.


As a software engineer, I wouldn't. NASA engineers have slammed machines into planets because someone did a distance conversion with the wrong unit. Tesla's crash into people about 20-30 times a year when in auto-pilot. This system also demands that the sensors/computers of each car are perfectly maintained (something most people are terrible at with cars).

mongbiohazard: Humans make shiatty drivers. We evolved to job, not barrel along at 3 or 4 times our natural speed limit in a cage of a few thousand pounds of steel.


That's bullshiat. Our reaction speed measures in milliseconds, and we evolved using tools that travel much faster than our "travel speed" to travel, to kill, etc. What do you think about pilots then that fly planes that weigh over 400 tons and travel at 600mph? How about fighter pilots that travel at over 1000 mph?

Our brains are uniquely qualified from evolution to process and react extremely quickly to stimulus.
 
mongbiohazard [BareFark]
2023-02-08 11:43:40 AM  

phimuskapsi: mongbiohazard: I'd trust a machine over human drivers, yes. Not even a hard decision.

As a software engineer, I wouldn't. NASA engineers have slammed machines into planets because someone did a distance conversion with the wrong unit. Tesla's crash into people about 20-30 times a year when in auto-pilot. This system also demands that the sensors/computers of each car are perfectly maintained (something most people are terrible at with cars).

mongbiohazard: Humans make shiatty drivers. We evolved to job, not barrel along at 3 or 4 times our natural speed limit in a cage of a few thousand pounds of steel.

That's bullshiat. Our reaction speed measures in milliseconds, and we evolved using tools that travel much faster than our "travel speed" to travel, to kill, etc. What do you think about pilots then that fly planes that weigh over 400 tons and travel at 600mph? How about fighter pilots that travel at over 1000 mph?

Our brains are uniquely qualified from evolution to process and react extremely quickly to stimulus.


Like 0.00001% of human beings are fighter pilots. Most people have trouble just walking down the street.
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 11:58:46 AM  

mongbiohazard: Like 0.00001% of human beings are fighter pilots. Most people have trouble just walking down the street.


Know what the difference is? Training.

In America we have 12.4 accidents per 100k people, in Germany they have 3.4 accidents per 100k people, even though they have several highways with no speed limit at all. The difference is that to drive in Germany you need to pass a driving school, pass a theory and practical exam.

In order to take the theory test, you need to go to 14 theory classes.
For the practical side, you need 42 classes, 30 "regular" classes, 3 night driving classes, 3 highway classes, 6 country road classes. The road test is 45 minutes long. In the US it's about 10-15 minutes long.

As a note, the total cost to do this is around $2500USD. 

In other European nations, especially Scandinavia, they have advanced training like skid training, hydroplaning, etc that is also part of getting a license.
 
pleiotropy
2023-02-08 12:27:08 PM  
The drivers in my town can't handle the new traffic circles without getting confused and now we're thinking about adding a 4th light? It's a recipe for disaster. Just think of all the folks who have been driving for 30+ years and now drive on mental autopilot. Extra lights are going to cause tons of confusion. And for what, faster flow that could probably be accomplished by altering the length of time that the green light stays on?
 
Quantumbunny
2023-02-08 12:32:53 PM  

technoblogical: Quantumbunny: hlehmann: I have red-green color blindness, as do a few percent of all males. Large areas of color usually aren't a problem, but things like small LEDs that switch between green and yellow to indicate good or bad irritate me to no end.  In a server room where there is one hard drive with a yellow LED and all the rest are green, I have to ask someone else to point out the yellow one to me.
To me, green traffic lights have always appeared to be nearly colorless, which I'm assuming is caused by the same color blindness.  I know they're "green" lights, of course, because they're neither red nor yellow.
If they start adding white traffic lights to the mix I generally won't be able to tell them apart from green lights.

/ Much of my work, ironically, involves color science, but it's just software & math stuff, not having to visually interpret colors.

Must folks that are colorblind have red/green colorblindness, the 3 worst colors for them to distinguish are the 3 we already used in traffic lights.

That's why there's a standard for position. You'll never see a traffic light that is red on bottom, green on top, for example. Or in high wind areas with horizontal, it's red on the left, green on the right.

White would just be added in the same spot on all of them, and if you see the 4th one is lit up, not the other 3, you'll know what to do.

At night in the dark, you can't tell which light is the top or the bottom because you can't see the case, only the light.

At night, if there is a large parking lot behind that traffic light, I often lose that green traffic light in a sea of white parking lot lights. Then it turns red and surprises me with its existence! I tend to scan the road lines a lot to find intersections, but states have gotten really bad at repainting these days.

In Texas (and probably other hurricane states), traffic lights are sideways. Your standard isn't a standard.


Woah this isn't my standard, it's literally a federal nhtsa requirement. These vertical and horizontal light orders are federally defined.

Now if you lose them against background lights, that's fair, but it's a problem you already have, not a new one caused by potentially adding a 4th light color.
 
PvtStash
2023-02-08 12:48:53 PM  
headline corrected for accurate truth:


Researchers propose a fourth light on traffic signals a cost on all citizens for self-driving cars private business to  better profiteer off of.


cause you know, figuring it out with the way it is for all you people already is like a lot of work and hard and that costs money. it's be real cool if you all could just take on this cost burden as a normal part of yall's civilization costs that we don't have to chip in on. that'd rally help out our bottom line and our stock holders. We can ask fort this cause murican tax system is fooking great if you are wealthy or a privateer individual that don't give a rat's civilization stuff.


When a l the citizens are given a robot driver car then maybe all the citizens would like to chip on how that works. until then g ask all the private people payuing for their own private privileges, to pay up for it.
 
mongbiohazard [BareFark]
2023-02-08 1:14:18 PM  

phimuskapsi: mongbiohazard: Like 0.00001% of human beings are fighter pilots. Most people have trouble just walking down the street.

Know what the difference is? Training.

In America we have 12.4 accidents per 100k people, in Germany they have 3.4 accidents per 100k people, even though they have several highways with no speed limit at all. The difference is that to drive in Germany you need to pass a driving school, pass a theory and practical exam.

In order to take the theory test, you need to go to 14 theory classes.
For the practical side, you need 42 classes, 30 "regular" classes, 3 night driving classes, 3 highway classes, 6 country road classes. The road test is 45 minutes long. In the US it's about 10-15 minutes long.

As a note, the total cost to do this is around $2500USD. 

In other European nations, especially Scandinavia, they have advanced training like skid training, hydroplaning, etc that is also part of getting a license.


Cool. Hardly any of the population are still fighter pilots though. None of that changed that fact.

And upping the drivers licensing requirements like that in America to match the ones you just described will happen about 15 minutes past never. It's not possible.... so... Yeah. I stand by what I said.
 
SuperChuck
2023-02-08 1:22:34 PM  
The white light is for loading and unloading. There is no stopping on a red light
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 2:06:19 PM  

mongbiohazard: Cool. Hardly any of the population are still fighter pilots though. None of that changed that fact.


Your initial comment was that people weren't designed to drive, now you are asking about fighter pilot selection? lol. My point about the training comment was that pilot's are trained like other drivers. Anyone can become a pilot as long as you have decent vision, are calm under pressure and are very bright.

Speed is not an evolutionary worry when it comes to vehicular travel. If it were impossible, no one would do it.
 
WelldeadLink
2023-02-08 3:01:21 PM  

pleiotropy: The drivers in my town can't handle the new traffic circles without getting confused and now we're thinking about adding a 4th light? It's a recipe for disaster. Just think of all the folks who have been driving for 30+ years and now drive on mental autopilot. Extra lights are going to cause tons of confusion. And for what, faster flow that could probably be accomplished by altering the length of time that the green light stays on?


You might be on the road to something... maybe a flashing green light? Flashing green and yellow?
Green light going off usually means yellow going on, and a burned out yellow is a physical possibility. To reduce confusion, leave green light on and start a flashing yellow, then on 2nd cycle start flashing both green and yellow. End the special case by going back to only solid green before the normal yellow-to-red change.
 
meanmutton
2023-02-08 3:26:51 PM  

phimuskapsi: mongbiohazard: I'd trust a machine over human drivers, yes. Not even a hard decision.

As a software engineer, I wouldn't. NASA engineers have slammed machines into planets because someone did a distance conversion with the wrong unit. Tesla's crash into people about 20-30 times a year when in auto-pilot. This system also demands that the sensors/computers of each car are perfectly maintained (something most people are terrible at with cars).

mongbiohazard: Humans make shiatty drivers. We evolved to job, not barrel along at 3 or 4 times our natural speed limit in a cage of a few thousand pounds of steel.

That's bullshiat. Our reaction speed measures in milliseconds, and we evolved using tools that travel much faster than our "travel speed" to travel, to kill, etc. What do you think about pilots then that fly planes that weigh over 400 tons and travel at 600mph? How about fighter pilots that travel at over 1000 mph?

Our brains are uniquely qualified from evolution to process and react extremely quickly to stimulus.


Auto-pilot isn't a fully automated vehicle. They are an advanced cruise control that requires an active and attentive human driver.

Also, if you think 20-30 collisions a year are bad, wait until you hear about human drivers.
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 3:28:57 PM  

meanmutton: Auto-pilot isn't a fully automated vehicle. They are an advanced cruise control that requires an active and attentive human driver.


That is not how it has been advertised. Repeatedly. Just look at the last update they put out.

meanmutton: Also, if you think 20-30 collisions a year are bad, wait until you hear about human drivers.


The difference is that a machine is making the decision that leads to a fatality or accident.
 
meanmutton
2023-02-08 3:32:41 PM  

phimuskapsi: meanmutton: Auto-pilot isn't a fully automated vehicle. They are an advanced cruise control that requires an active and attentive human driver.

That is not how it has been advertised. Repeatedly. Just look at the last update they put out.

meanmutton: Also, if you think 20-30 collisions a year are bad, wait until you hear about human drivers.

The difference is that a machine is making the decision that leads to a fatality or accident.


A company's advertising run by a man who has been sanctioned multiple times lying about his company's cars which are NOT self driving isn't a valid argument against self driving cars.

A machine that farks up 1/20th as often as a human is a huge step in the right direction. If we had autonomous cars now and someone came along with the idea that we should let humans drive them, knowing it would result in tens of thousands of extra deaths a year - no one would ever let humans drive.
 
mongbiohazard [BareFark]
2023-02-08 3:37:11 PM  

phimuskapsi: mongbiohazard: Cool. Hardly any of the population are still fighter pilots though. None of that changed that fact.

Your initial comment was that people weren't designed to drive, now you are asking about fighter pilot selection?


That was your response, you know. I said people didn't evolve to drive a car, and you responded with some nonsense about fighter pilots and their reaction times. I was just addressing your reply. Because, as I noted, hardly anyone in the population is a fighter pilot, so it's a moot point when talking about how rolling this scheme out to the general public is destined for failure.

If you didn't want me to reply to that point maybe don't make that point?
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 3:48:16 PM  

mongbiohazard: That was your response, you know. I said people didn't evolve to drive a car, and you responded with some nonsense about fighter pilots and their reaction times


"Nonsense" being an example of humans dealing with high speeds in extremely tense situations at times? Requiring rapid direction changes, and extremely quick and controlled reactions to extremely fast stimuli. The demonstration was showing that your call that a car travelling at 55mph is too fast for our brains - meanwhile, pilots exist, baseball players that hit a tiny moving target over a very short distance sometimes at 100mph or over.

mongbiohazard: I was just addressing your reply. Because, as I noted, hardly anyone in the population is a fighter pilot, so it's a moot point when talking about how rolling this scheme out to the general public is destined for failure.


My response was to this inane comment:

mongbiohazard: Humans make shiatty drivers. We evolved to job, not barrel along at 3 or 4 times our natural speed limit in a cage of a few thousand pounds of steel.
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-08 3:49:13 PM  

phimuskapsi: The demonstration was showing that your call that a car travelling at 55mph is too fast for our brains - meanwhile, pilots exist, baseball players that hit a tiny moving target over a very short distance sometimes at 100mph or over.


That your call "was wrong", I insinuated it but wanted to be clear. 

/ I do that a lot
// Not sure why.
 
mongbiohazard [BareFark]
2023-02-08 4:10:24 PM  

phimuskapsi: phimuskapsi: The demonstration was showing that your call that a car travelling at 55mph is too fast for our brains - meanwhile, pilots exist, baseball players that hit a tiny moving target over a very short distance sometimes at 100mph or over.

That your call "was wrong", I insinuated it but wanted to be clear. 

/ I do that a lot
// Not sure why.


And your point won't be nonsense when both:

1. most people have the reaction speed of fighter pilots, baseball players, or whatever other tiny edge cases you'll come up with next which are patently unrepresentative of a general sample of the human population and
2. reaction speed is the only thing that matters in decision-making

Good luck getting there.
 
2fardownthread
2023-02-08 6:19:21 PM  
I don't think I have a problem with this. From what I understand this is a "mode switch" that is failure tolerant.

So everyone drives normally as a default, but beyond some number or percentage threshold of silicon drivers, some algorithm can do better than the regular traffic signals, so it takes over. Uh oh. Here comes a "meathead" who does not follow the rules? OK. It goes back to the default. The thing is, it will always be "in the interest of" the meathead, or "the reasonable thing" for the meathead to just follow the guy in front. There is no incentive other than "being a jerk" to disobey the traffic signals and in fact being a jerk might be both dangerous and a waste of time. But mostly a waste of time.

There might be some overall welfare loss in weird cases, but the general idea is that we all have the "traffic light algorithm" burned into our consciousness because it is simple and robust, not optimal. We can do better than that in many cases if we just let a computer handle things. And I don't mean that a computer should push someone's accelerator. I mean that the computer can run a special light routine.

And we already have this, don't we? Traffic-actuated stoplights already switch algorithms based on light traffic. Many people will ignore a red light if they have already stopped and see zero cross-traffic for miles.

So where does it help most?

I suppose letting traffic flow in one direction for a little while longer than it might normally. That might save time overall. In cases of gridlock, when all EW traffic is halted, you might just let the NS traffic keep going instead of putting in a useless EW cycle. OR, when there is absolutely no EW traffic at all, you could let NS traffic flow.

This is not automatic driving. It is adding one switch that can be used to let people perform different algorithms with, I guess, one simple rule that any meathead can learn in two seconds.
 
PartTimeBuddha [OhFark]
2023-02-09 7:02:05 AM  
What is wrong with you. This is clearly a thread about femdom jerk off instructions.

Why drag automobiles into it?
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-09 10:03:20 AM  

mongbiohazard: 1. most people have the reaction speed of fighter pilots, baseball players, or whatever other tiny edge cases you'll come up with next which are patently unrepresentative of a general sample of the human population and
2. reaction speed is the only thing that matters in decision-making


Goddamn dude. Think about everything I've said together after responding to you about what humans can handle.

- Many people have very quick reaction times that are used in jobs that require those skills
- All of those people are just normal people with training
 
WelldeadLink
2023-02-09 11:24:22 AM  
I wonder how many people know the existing meaning of a white light at an intersection.

Emergency Vehicle Preemption (EVP) indication is a white light which tells an emergency vehicle that the stoplight is giving them a green light. At the same time, the other directions get a flashing white light to inform other emergency vehicles that someone else has already been given priority at that intersection SO DON'T CRASH INTO THEM. (Flashing white light also activated at other times when the emergency preemption is disabled -- such as when a nearby railroad crossing is closed)
 
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