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(MSN)   Former vice-chair of the DC police union is arrested for working a second job at Whole Foods Market, which doesn't seem like much of a crime except for the whole on duty, on overtime part   (msn.com) divider line
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    More: Fail, Grocery store, Whole Foods Market, court documents, Food, Felony, Medgar Webster Sr., course of the investigation, Capitol Breach email newsletter  
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2487 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2023 at 12:20 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Pocket Ninja [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-07 12:01:09 PM  
Wait. You're telling me that police union officials aren't always the most ethically responsible people? That we shouldn't automatically believe that they're acting honestly, transparently, or lawfully? That they're at least as likely to be bad apples as any front-line police officer?

That's impossible. I don't believe you.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-07 12:22:41 PM  
It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.
 
Jeebus Saves
2023-02-07 12:26:15 PM  

dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.


They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.
 
khitsicker [TotalFark]
2023-02-07 12:26:30 PM  
approves

cinemalisted.comView Full Size
 
Sentient
2023-02-07 12:27:12 PM  
He's a cop. They'll investigate, find that he did nothing wrong, and he'll be allowed to retire (immediately after a minor promotion) with full benefits, after which he'll take a job in a neighboring department.

They'll do that because the investigators and virtually everyone else in the department are grifting off the same "overtime" trough, and they all know it.
 
Terlis
2023-02-07 12:28:17 PM  

dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.


There was a huge uproar a few years back here in Harrisburg with the city police force.  The then-mayor told them they would need to take PTO if they were going to work security for a large gun show.  In the past, the city would just "schedule them off" so they could work there and then work their normal shift.  I'm wondering how many of those hours were actually on the clock and they got a ton of overtime and double paydays.
 
Dadoody
2023-02-07 12:28:35 PM  
A union leader being a thieving money grubber? You don't say.
 
Subtonic
2023-02-07 12:30:02 PM  
Obviously we need to better fund police.
 
Dr. Bison
2023-02-07 12:31:51 PM  
It's only stealing if it's not from the public.
 
BunchaRubes
2023-02-07 12:32:12 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Wait. You're telling me that police union officials aren't always the most ethically responsible people? That we shouldn't automatically believe that they're acting honestly, transparently, or lawfully? That they're at least as likely to be bad apples as any front-line police officer?

That's impossible. I don't believe you.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/dc-police-union-vice-chair-under-investigation-for-sexual-abuse-of-woman-at-grocery-store/ar-AAVU949

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Fear the Clam
2023-02-07 12:32:39 PM  
Piker. A former president of the Boston police union pled guilty to child rape.
 
buckeyebrain
2023-02-07 12:37:23 PM  
Arrested?  Who did he piss off???
 
BunchaRubes
2023-02-07 12:37:36 PM  

Jeebus Saves: dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.

They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.


They say that because it is cheaper.  You clearly have no idea how much it costs to employ someone.

<looks at screen name>  Ah, figures
 
kmgenesis23
2023-02-07 12:42:08 PM  
Good amounts of police budgets go to overtime pay. Some of that goes to asshats who aren't doing their job and are straight-up bilking the system.
 
Nirbo
2023-02-07 12:44:20 PM  

Dadoody: A union leader being a thieving money grubber? You don't say.


fark you and your anti-union propaganda.

We're all about the anti-cop propaganda here.
 
medic2731 [TotalFark]
2023-02-07 12:47:10 PM  
Good, he should be arrested, charged, and imprisoned.  Nobody is above the law, except, POSSIBLY, George Santos...
 
LordOfThePings [OhFark]
2023-02-07 12:50:32 PM  
Whole Foods has been outlawed. We begin bombing in five minutes.
 
Carter Pewterschmidt [TotalFark]
2023-02-07 12:56:33 PM  

kmgenesis23: Good amounts of police budgets go to overtime pay. Some of that goes to asshats who aren't doing their job and are straight-up bilking the system.


In the UK police pensions are based on the last two years earnings, and that includes overtime. So every cop two years from retirement starts getting all the overtime they can get. Arrest someone ten minutes before your shift ends? Well I guess I can book them, question them, do the paperwork etc before I clock off. Shouldn't take more than five or six hours....
 
eagles95
2023-02-07 12:57:33 PM  
Have friends who are cops. Their OT pays for 2nd homes, vacations, 3rd and 4th cars. Most of the time they are sleeping at a barracks or sleeping in the car somewhere or sleeping at home in their cruiser so they are technically in their car.
 
austerity101
2023-02-07 12:57:54 PM  
Abolish the police.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-07 12:58:49 PM  

BunchaRubes: Jeebus Saves: dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.

They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.

They say that because it is cheaper.  You clearly have no idea how much it costs to employ someone.

<looks at screen name>  Ah, figures


It's not cheaper if OT is largely just make-work and a way for the cops to help each other pad their bank accounts without doing actual necessary work.
 
Petite Mel
2023-02-07 1:02:20 PM  
Many (MANY!) years ago, I was a member of NABET (The National Association of Broadcast Employees & Technicians), working afternoon drive time (3-7pm IIRC) at a NYC radio station. Occasionally I would be asked to fill in for my morning drive counterpart. On those days, I'd come in at 5am and work until 10am, then come back for the afternoon shift. Union rules said I had to be paid for the whole day, 5am-7pm (at an hourly wage). Mid day I had another job working retail. So not only was I getting paid by the station 0am-3pm while not working, I was getting paid at my retail job at the same time. I made sweet bank on those days.

/CSB
//Always struck me as shady, but it was in the contract.
///Union screwed me later when my job was sacrificed as part of deal to end a strike.
 
groppet
2023-02-07 1:02:28 PM  
I am sure the GOP will use this to say that the police no longer need unions, wait they will probably say that so how teachers unions cause this.
 
mojodragon
2023-02-07 1:02:51 PM  
I think it should go even further than that. I think it's unethical to allow off-duty cops to wear their uniforms (and gear) during their off-duty employment. It conveys a civilian authority that Waffle House just doesn't actually have
 
Mikey1969 [OhFark]
2023-02-07 1:03:10 PM  
TFA was a little light on the details. What job was the guy performing? Was he security, or was he a regular worker? Was he showing up at the station, getting the daily briefing, and then heading straight to the store? And over how long of a time period did these 29 hours stretch out? 3 years wouldn't really be that bad, for example, but one week would...
 
abhorrent1
2023-02-07 1:03:41 PM  
So he made $33K and stole $2K in overtime? Now do all the ex-cops living on disability because they got in a fender bender.
 
khatores
2023-02-07 1:10:06 PM  

Jeebus Saves: dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.

They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.


It is cheaper in the short term because there's no additional recruiting, training, benefits, equipment, insurance or full shifts to pay for. That's probably $100-150k total (probably much more now) which is far more than $2-3k in OT. And right now after all that you're possibly getting some lower quality recruits than in the past due to some complex sociological issues, but the expectations are higher. They must be trained to a higher standard to try and resolve incidents without undue force or to document uses of force if they do happen, all the while keeping a cool head with a suspicious public.

In the long term, relying too much on OT vs recruiting substantially thins the numbers. If you're paying OT for operational use then it's time to either recruit or ask for more budget. OT of experienced officers who are responsible non-psychos is best used for them to take time training new recruits.

Obviously some communities and police do not have the best relationship right now. However, less or no police means that when you do call them, response times are lengthy even if you have a serious emergency. Violence is still rare...I've called the police about a dozen times over the years and not once has it turned into a shooting or something I regretted later.

One time they did throw a meth head on the ground, but she was throwing boulders so that seems reasonable.
 
kmgenesis23
2023-02-07 1:11:09 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: kmgenesis23: Good amounts of police budgets go to overtime pay. Some of that goes to asshats who aren't doing their job and are straight-up bilking the system.

In the UK police pensions are based on the last two years earnings, and that includes overtime. So every cop two years from retirement starts getting all the overtime they can get. Arrest someone ten minutes before your shift ends? Well I guess I can book them, question them, do the paperwork etc before I clock off. Shouldn't take more than five or six hours....


Well it's not like police NEED an incentive to abuse the system, but actually having an such an incentive built in to their retirement seems counterproductive to me.
 
Catsaregreen
2023-02-07 1:35:35 PM  

austerity101: Abolish the police.


Just as long as we keep the Second Amendment.
 
Geotpf
2023-02-07 1:46:38 PM  

kmgenesis23: Carter Pewterschmidt: kmgenesis23: Good amounts of police budgets go to overtime pay. Some of that goes to asshats who aren't doing their job and are straight-up bilking the system.

In the UK police pensions are based on the last two years earnings, and that includes overtime. So every cop two years from retirement starts getting all the overtime they can get. Arrest someone ten minutes before your shift ends? Well I guess I can book them, question them, do the paperwork etc before I clock off. Shouldn't take more than five or six hours....

Well it's not like police NEED an incentive to abuse the system, but actually having an such an incentive built in to their retirement seems counterproductive to me.


The whole "pension amount is based on last year or two's pay" is very common.  To reduce this sort of abuse, such a calculation should just not count overtime.
 
HighOnCraic
2023-02-07 1:50:17 PM  
Through the Vatican?
 
stuffy
2023-02-07 1:55:20 PM  
He was under cover, trying to crack the Spongecake smuggling ring.
 
DanInKansas
2023-02-07 2:36:16 PM  

Nirbo: Dadoody: A union leader being a thieving money grubber? You don't say.

fark you and your anti-union propaganda.

We're all about the anti-cop propaganda here.


Fortunately we all know cops aren't part of the labor movement.
 
Begoggle
2023-02-07 2:37:26 PM  
Police "union"
 
Recoil Therapy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-07 2:38:15 PM  

Geotpf: kmgenesis23: Carter Pewterschmidt: kmgenesis23: Good amounts of police budgets go to overtime pay. Some of that goes to asshats who aren't doing their job and are straight-up bilking the system.

In the UK police pensions are based on the last two years earnings, and that includes overtime. So every cop two years from retirement starts getting all the overtime they can get. Arrest someone ten minutes before your shift ends? Well I guess I can book them, question them, do the paperwork etc before I clock off. Shouldn't take more than five or six hours....

Well it's not like police NEED an incentive to abuse the system, but actually having an such an incentive built in to their retirement seems counterproductive to me.

The whole "pension amount is based on last year or two's pay" is very common.  To reduce this sort of abuse, such a calculation should just not count overtime.


Or if counted, it's calculated just like it was a regular hour worked and not time and a half

So annual salary divided by 2000 hours = 'x'. If they worked 700 extra hours that year they would get pension credit for 2700*'x'.  They'd still get the OT pay, but that money amount wouldn't be a factor in the pension, only the amount of work done.
 
BunchaRubes
2023-02-07 3:13:48 PM  

dr_blasto: BunchaRubes: Jeebus Saves: dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.

They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.

They say that because it is cheaper.  You clearly have no idea how much it costs to employ someone.

<looks at screen name>  Ah, figures

It's not cheaper if OT is largely just make-work and a way for the cops to help each other pad their bank accounts without doing actual necessary work.


The conversation you're muddying is what's cheaper, OT or hiring more cops.
 
Vicarious Witness
2023-02-07 3:14:17 PM  
No more Police Unions, they do not serve the needs of the community
No more moonlighting, it creates a conflict of interest, plus the community deserves well-rested officers.
Prohibit drug, steroid, and alcohol use and urine test before each shift.
No more unmarked cars. Visible law-enforcement deters bad behaviors.
Must be in uniform while on duty or exercising authority. The community must be able to identify officers.
Zero tolerance for domestic violence or disturbing the peace.
No-knock warrants issued only upon-risk-of-life, otherwise surveillance until a safe arrest can be made.
No more elected law-enforcement officers.
 
tekmo
2023-02-07 3:26:06 PM  
"Hello," lied the cop.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-07 3:32:17 PM  

BunchaRubes: dr_blasto: BunchaRubes: Jeebus Saves: dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.

They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.

They say that because it is cheaper.  You clearly have no idea how much it costs to employ someone.

<looks at screen name>  Ah, figures

It's not cheaper if OT is largely just make-work and a way for the cops to help each other pad their bank accounts without doing actual necessary work.

The conversation you're muddying is what's cheaper, OT or hiring more cops.


lol, no - I started this particular convo and started it making a point that it's full of waste, fraud and abuse
 
McFarkus
2023-02-07 3:32:32 PM  

BunchaRubes: Pocket Ninja: Wait. You're telling me that police union officials aren't always the most ethically responsible people? That we shouldn't automatically believe that they're acting honestly, transparently, or lawfully? That they're at least as likely to be bad apples as any front-line police officer?

That's impossible. I don't believe you.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/dc-police-union-vice-chair-under-investigation-for-sexual-abuse-of-woman-at-grocery-store/ar-AAVU949

[Fark user image 396x311]


Okay, two things here:
1 - Looks like the 'sexual abuse' charge is from an event at one of the stores he (claims he was) working at
2 - GoodGawdAwmitey will ya take a look at his noggin!! Looks like a sideways Stewie Griffin
 
OgreMagi
2023-02-07 3:37:31 PM  
Police unions are a plague on this country and should be eliminated.
 
Latinwolf [TotalFark]
2023-02-07 3:57:33 PM  

DanInKansas: Nirbo: Dadoody: A union leader being a thieving money grubber? You don't say.

fark you and your anti-union propaganda.

We're all about the anti-cop propaganda here.

Fortunately we all know cops aren't part of the labor movement.


Actually they are, they were first formed (at least in the Northern states) as union busters.
 
Wessoman
2023-02-07 4:04:43 PM  

abhorrent1: So he made $33K and stole $2K in overtime? Now do all the ex-cops living on disability because they got in a fender bender.


Heck, do all the cops claiming disability for "fentanyl exposure". That's where the real grift is.
 
Any Pie Left
2023-02-07 4:34:07 PM  
I bristle at calling them "unions" when they themselves call it a "benevolent association" or "Fraternal Organization".
They damage the reputation of legitimate unions.
 
moto-geek
2023-02-07 5:26:19 PM  
Will he still get overtime when he's in the pokey?
(probably)
 
bingethinker [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-07 5:52:19 PM  

Dadoody: A union leader being a thieving money grubber? You don't say.


Who does he think he is, senior management of a large company?
 
BunchaRubes
2023-02-07 6:24:12 PM  

dr_blasto: BunchaRubes: dr_blasto: BunchaRubes: Jeebus Saves: dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.

They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.

They say that because it is cheaper.  You clearly have no idea how much it costs to employ someone.

<looks at screen name>  Ah, figures

It's not cheaper if OT is largely just make-work and a way for the cops to help each other pad their bank accounts without doing actual necessary work.

The conversation you're muddying is what's cheaper, OT or hiring more cops.

lol, no - I started this particular convo and started it making a point that it's full of waste, fraud and abuse


My bad.  But you're still adding your flavoring to my reply to someone else.  Waste, fraud and abuse, sure.  That's the same as OT just about anywhere else, it's hardly unique to police.

And it's 100% not relevant for my reply to "The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops."
 
Swampmaster
2023-02-07 7:32:53 PM  

Sentient: He's a cop. They'll investigate, find that he did nothing wrong, and he'll be allowed to retire (immediately after a minor promotion) with full benefits, after which he'll take a job in a neighboring department.

They'll do that because the investigators and virtually everyone else in the department are grifting off the same "overtime" trough, and they all know it.


You forgot the part about being promoted to Special Assistant to the Chief ( at the same pay grade as Asst Chief) for 1 day. Then going to the quack disability doc the union recommends to get his 100% bad back and knees disability retirement, effective tomorrow... so because he was Asst Chief at the higher pay grade; all his saved up vacation and PTO get calculated at the higher pay; plus that rate times # of years of service used for his tax free disability retirement!!!

/I should have been a copper! Ala Richard Gere in Internal Affairs!!!
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2023-02-07 10:39:44 PM  

khatores: Jeebus Saves: dr_blasto: It's waaaaaay past time we should have ended OT in local cop shops barring major disasters and unrest and barred them from working security gigs in uniform.

It's been a scam to pad their pockets and rife with fraud, waste and abuse.

They wont though.  The politicians claim that it's cheaper to pay overtime than to hire more cops.

It is cheaper in the short term because there's no additional recruiting, training, benefits, equipment, insurance or full shifts to pay for. That's probably $100-150k total (probably much more now) which is far more than $2-3k in OT. And right now after all that you're possibly getting some lower quality recruits than in the past due to some complex sociological issues, but the expectations are higher. They must be trained to a higher standard to try and resolve incidents without undue force or to document uses of force if they do happen, all the while keeping a cool head with a suspicious public.

In the long term, relying too much on OT vs recruiting substantially thins the numbers. If you're paying OT for operational use then it's time to either recruit or ask for more budget. OT of experienced officers who are responsible non-psychos is best used for them to take time training new recruits.

Obviously some communities and police do not have the best relationship right now. However, less or no police means that when you do call them, response times are lengthy even if you have a serious emergency. Violence is still rare...I've called the police about a dozen times over the years and not once has it turned into a shooting or something I regretted later.

One time they did throw a meth head on the ground, but she was throwing boulders so that seems reasonable.


So the "fully loaded" rate for an Employee is Salary +Salary*66%  to account for insurance, PTO, other fringe benefits.   Overtime is time-and-a half.   So Overtime is barely cheaper, and you get tired and checked out employees
 
khatores
2023-02-07 10:54:26 PM  

Magorn: So the "fully loaded" rate for an Employee is Salary +Salary*66% to account for insurance, PTO, other fringe benefits. Overtime is time-and-a half. So Overtime is barely cheaper, and you get tired and checked out employees


Yeah but you're not committed to it, and you can vary the hours a bit.  If it's a quiet week, no or minimal OT. This is probably appropriate for a smaller department or if a department is waiting on a new class to show up.  It shouldn't be a constant bandaid.

I'm not sure if the quality of policing has gone down in the US or if the problems are just more obvious due to prolific use of cameras, but I would like to see things improve. It's critical that we get this under control because a society without police is going to be difficult.

I only personally know one cop who had a documented use of force that was deemed to be excessive.  He was fired after only a few years.  However, I know that guy from HS and he was always kind of a violent moron, so I'm not surprised. Pretty sure he's juicing too.
 
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