eurotrader: There is only about 7,400 mental health beds is all of NY and 3300 in NYC so where are the homeless going to be dragged to and housed?

That's just it.

They aren't going to just start dragging homeless people off the street and turn them into soylent green. That's movie bullshiat. This is about getting people who are in crisis help they need.

I read the actual directive and speaking as someone with 15 years EMS experience in New York, I see nothing different other than documentation requirements for filling out the reports. I'll spend a few more minutes on it but it just looks like 941.(spends a couple minutes reading again)Well fark me. It is 9.41. This is old shiat. So yeah, just new documentation, which is how to effect the reform everyone wants. Yeah this is nothing.

eurotrader: cretinbob: eurotrader: There is only about 7,400 mental health beds is all of NY and 3300 in NYC so where are the homeless going to be dragged to and housed?

That's just it.

They aren't going to just start dragging homeless people off the street and turn them into soylent green. That's movie bullshiat. This is about getting people who are in crisis help they need.

I read the actual directive and speaking as someone with 15 years EMS experience in New York, I see nothing different other than documentation requirements for filling out the reports. I'll spend a few more minutes on it but it just looks like 941.(spends a couple minutes reading again)Well fark me. It is 9.41. This is old shiat. So yeah, just new documentation, which is how to effect the reform everyone wants. Yeah this is nothing.

I am familiar with the number of public mental health beds in Denver metro. Denver health added an extra floor a few years ago and it has been filled since with pretrial holds. There just isn't any close to the number of beds needed and has been that way for decades. In Colorado it is a M1 hold for 72 hours of secure observation.  The running joke is when trying to get a public bed a telehealth assessment is required by any hospital that may take them and unless they are covered in gasoline and playing a lighter they are not enough of a danger to self and others to get a bed
Part of the reason the change by the VA to possibly pay for private mental health beds could be a good step. I still haven't gotten a clear answer from the VA on how the procedure works and what docs are needed. Hoping VOA veterans services get to do the administration.

I would love if more tax dollars went to mental health.
What I'm saying is this is an old law, very old. What a appears to have changed is that there is a form, which is just an extra section, on the ePCR and they want to make sure everyone is filling this out when they encounter a 9.41 situation.
The rest is the way it has been done, just fine, for years. The headline is ignorant rage.

edmo: Why limit this to the homeless? Any other crazy people we should lock up?

This does apply to everyone.

So let me clarify what 941, this thing we are discussing, does.
It allows for a three day hold. That's it. At the end of the three days whatever happens is up to a doctor.

There is no secret cabal trafficking the mentally ill homeless for their adrenochrome.

This is an example of the public learning a thing and being outraged at it because they don't understand the context and complexity of a thing. Some of the public will say "Oh, OK. NBD then." and yet others will want to continue to argue not simply because the facts don't conform to their reality but because they are organically incapable of making those changes. There are physical aspects of mental health issues in the microstructure of the brain. It's not simply chemical, but how the physical form is affected.
Overloading of certain neurotransmitters create scarring. It could also be likened to water eroding a gully or a path being worn. There are many ways to go but once the channel is formed it can be difficult to break out of it. It's not just metaphorical though and as imaging techniques are getting better the people who know more about it than I do are beginning to see it, and we've know about the different centers of the brain for a long time. So, farking science.
What all the research will lead to, I dunno. Hopefully not more pills. EMF looks promising.


It's just an ooga booga headline, which is a red flag btw, but I'll look closer at the lawsuit. The thing the lawsuit was about is not new and it is for the public's protection, even the person who is being taken into custody, which is just a fancy word for care.

Notabunny: If the deciding factors are being detached from evidence-based reality and being a threat to themselves and others, what about people who support trickle-down economics?

If they pose an immediate the of harm to themselves or others, yes. That is the part everyone wants to gloss over. There must be a threat of immediate harm to one's self or others.

Notabunny: cretinbob: Notabunny: If the deciding factors are being detached from evidence-based reality and being a threat to themselves and others, what about people who support trickle-down economics?

If they pose an immediate the of harm to themselves or others, yes. That is the part everyone wants to gloss over. There must be a threat of immediate harm to one's self or others.

My feelings are immediately harmed when my wingnut uncle claims Reaganomics worked

Is he waving a knife in your face?

Ker_Thwap: cretinbob: So let me clarify what 941, this thing we are discussing, does.
It allows for a three day hold. That's it. At the end of the three days whatever happens is up to a doctor.

There is no secret cabal trafficking the mentally ill homeless for their adrenochrome.

This is an example of the public learning a thing and being outraged at it because they don't understand the context and complexity of a thing. Some of the public will say "Oh, OK. NBD then." and yet others will want to continue to argue not simply because the facts don't conform to their reality but because they are organically incapable of making those changes. There are physical aspects of mental health issues in the microstructure of the brain. It's not simply chemical, but how the physical form is affected.
Overloading of certain neurotransmitters create scarring. It could also be likened to water eroding a gully or a path being worn. There are many ways to go but once the channel is formed it can be difficult to break out of it. It's not just metaphorical though and as imaging techniques are getting better the people who know more about it than I do are beginning to see it, and we've know about the different centers of the brain for a long time. So, farking science.
What all the research will lead to, I dunno. Hopefully not more pills. EMF looks promising.


It's just an ooga booga headline, which is a red flag btw, but I'll look closer at the lawsuit. The thing the lawsuit was about is not new and it is for the public's protection, even the person who is being taken into custody, which is just a fancy word for care.

My concern isn't for the theory of the law.  I'd love to see more people get help, when they're a danger to themselves or others.  My concern is for the practice.  Is it a cart before the horse law.  Is there help to be had?  Who makes the initial decision to collect the ill?  Who enforces that decision?  Will this collection of the ill be supervised and reviewed?  Will the polic ...

It's a "remove people from immediate danger" law. Most of the time it is applied to suicide attempts or intentinal overdoses.

again, someone mumbling to themselves about the conspiracy in the purple monkey dishwasher isn't who this is applied to, unless they appear to not be able to care for themselves and would likely come to harm if left where they were.

Here's an allowable example for a homeless person:

called to a scene, individual sitting on a corner, no visible signs of trauma, it's freezing, individual isn't dressed for the weather. They are babbling incoherently, maybe they can give a name but doesn't know what day it is and think lizard people run the country. Individual clearly can't stay exposed or they will die. OK?
Patrol rolls up, we all have a chat in which my role is to convince the individual that they are not well and they would be much happier in a nice warm ESD, maybe get a bite to eat.
They don't want to. It is my duty to make sure that person is safe. To leave them so they potentially freeze to death would be a dereliction of that duty. If they did die, I could be sued, I could go to prison, and worst of all, I would feel bad. It is not the ethical or moral thing to do.
So after making multiple attempts to persuade the individual to go, I can ask the nice police officer to take the individual into custody. It usually never gets this far, and rarely involves handcuffs. If it does, it's an individual who was already violent.

So the practice is, the individual failed being oriented. They knew there name, but did not know where they were, did not know when they were and lizard people do not run the government. They were in immediate danger of freezing to death. Individuals with a duty to prevent that were present and agreed that the individual in danger was not of sound mind and was in danger and that after multiple attempts to explain said danger, the subject lacked sufficient capacity to make a rational decision and therefore a decision needed to be made for them. They had to be taken into care.

That's how it works, every day, lots and lots of times a day all over the state of New York.

This memo is about how to document the interaction. It's like when Mike Lindell said "I got the evidence the vote was a fraud" and he had file headers.

It is a law that protects everyone involved in the situation. Had the individual known their name, knew where they were, knew it was 3:37 AM on a Saturday in Times Square and said Joe Biden was a lizard person, then no, they can't just be taken away.
Then I can leave them there to freeze to death, after they sign a form that says I called them a dumbass and told them they were going to freeze to death. They can't sue then because I have a legal witness and their signature. And they're dead. But I won't go to prison.

The law describes a procedure, which is what most laws do.
It's to prevent people from doing stuff all willy nilly.