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(Gizmodo)   Remember when you used to trace comics in grade school and passed them off as your own work in art class? This Roy Lichtenstein documentary remembered   (gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Pop art, Andy Warhol, New York City, Film festival, Comic book, Documentary film, Film, Abstract expressionism  
•       •       •

1314 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 02 Feb 2023 at 9:05 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2023-02-02 8:29:39 AM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 8:50:00 AM  
Russ Heath drew a comic about how he was paid $50 for the page, and Lichenstein copied it and got $4M.  The museum even offered to host Russ to stand next to their new painting.  Russ couldn't even afford to buy wine for his later years.

Russ Heath "Bottle of Wine"
 
2023-02-02 9:07:37 AM  
I can't draw worth a crap, so I would trace Garfield comics and give them to my teacher to improve my grades.


/she still failed me
 
2023-02-02 9:10:14 AM  
i0.wp.comView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 9:18:01 AM  
64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 9:19:04 AM  
A lot of guys draw ...
 
2023-02-02 9:24:07 AM  
Hell yeah, Subby.

I used my mom's typewriter carbon copy sheets.  I hadn't thought of those in a while.

I loved those carbon copy sheets. I used one to forge a signature. My teacher was so unimpressed she didn't even call my parents. Her look of disappointment was enough for me.
 
2023-02-02 9:25:48 AM  
Was expecting that headline to end with Greg Land.
 
2023-02-02 9:43:17 AM  
I used to trace comics.  My dad worked as a printer and used to bring home carbon paper (and later NCR when it was available) so I could trace stuff and then colour it in myself.  It was fun and a good way to start honing my own artistic abilities until I could do that stuff freehand.

Never tried to pass it off as my own though.
 
2023-02-02 9:44:55 AM  
Fark Liechtenschtien; the man and the country.  No-talent thieving ass-bastards, both of them!
 
2023-02-02 9:47:03 AM  
either way he's still better than Rob "many utility belts, no feet, muscle inventor" Liefeld
 
2023-02-02 9:59:18 AM  
All I can draw is flies.
 
2023-02-02 10:19:54 AM  
I never tried to pass off art as my own, but I absolutely, definitely drew direct inspiration from the Calvin and Hobbes "Insect Collection" series of strips that culminate with Calvin using a little ball of lint in place of one of his bugs, saying "Oh yeah, I'm sure our teacher is going to look very closely at every single bug in every kids collection".

I had to do a poetry portfolio, which was supposed to include 10 professionally written poems by published poets that inspired the rest of my work within it. After looking up three or four and transcribing them, (booooring) I just started making up haikus (they were short!) and other 4 line poems (which, upon reading, were clearly written by a 6th grader) while absolutely thinking "Oh Yeah, I'm sure our teacher is gonna spend hours reading every single poem in every single one of these 15-page portfolios. I just gotta have something on the page."

Either way, it was never called out, and I got an A-. Thanks, Calvin and Mr. Watterson.
 
2023-02-02 10:22:28 AM  
I remember my middle school art class having a unit actually focused on Roy Lichtenstein.  His technique is basically scaling up a portion of a panel as if it were scanned into a vector art program like Adobe Illustrator.  That being said, if you are going to give him crap for it, then give Warhol crap for the soup can.
 
2023-02-02 10:26:14 AM  
No, you see, when it's in a comic book it's just pap for the masses made by talentless nobodies.

When Roy changed it slightly and made it big and put it on a wall, it's capital-A Art.
 
2023-02-02 10:31:21 AM  
isn't there a comic artist that pauses stills of movies (especially porn) and uses that to draw his characters?  I remember reading a fantastic four comic and was like 'what's up w/ the facial expressions'
 
2023-02-02 10:35:08 AM  

You Are All Sheep: isn't there a comic artist that pauses stills of movies (especially porn) and uses that to draw his characters?  I remember reading a fantastic four comic and was like 'what's up w/ the facial expressions'


Greg Land - he's mentioned by a poster above.
I've seen other artists do it too, though.  Bryan Hitch springs to mind.
 
2023-02-02 10:39:04 AM  
Silly Putty Commercial (1975)
Youtube LOWPMYmT8Eo
 
2023-02-02 10:39:24 AM  
Has Greg Land appeared yet?
 
2023-02-02 10:40:11 AM  

holdmybones: [64.media.tumblr.com image 500x287]


TIL that's farking Casey Affleck. How did I not know this?
 
2023-02-02 10:45:57 AM  
Copying other artists has been a learning tool used in art schools for pretty much ever. You don't try passing it off as yours though.
 
2023-02-02 10:53:04 AM  

Wendigogo: Copying other artists has been a learning tool used in art schools for pretty much ever. You don't try passing it off as yours though.


I grew up with a version one of these in pretty much every kid magazine:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 11:07:43 AM  
Roy got paid for successfully executing the Art hustle. The amount paid for an image in the fine art market doesn't and probably can't reflect an actual empirical value of the image.

Many artists aren't great hustlers.

My oldest was obviously an artist from an early age. He was only interested in learning technique that helped him capture his vision of what the image should look like. Anything else in art education or history held no interest for him.

He had a series of McJobs, but then he became a tattoo artist. He realized he could still make his art his way, but that wasn't going to pay. Now he has a job where he hangs out and works with other artists.

He may be doing his 2nd Tasmanian devil tattoo of the day, but in his mind, he's imagining the work he will create on the canvas he can now afford to buy.

He has learned the importance of establishing a brand in the industry though. He is working conventions and social media, so he makes an exponentially greater amount of money than when he started. his skill has improved, but the primary difference is in people's perceptions of the value of his work.

That's the hustle.
 
2023-02-02 11:08:56 AM  

shabu: Roy got paid for successfully executing the Art hustle. The amount paid for an image in the fine art market doesn't and probably can't reflect an actual empirical value of the image.

Many artists aren't great hustlers.

My oldest was obviously an artist from an early age. He was only interested in learning technique that helped him capture his vision of what the image should look like. Anything else in art education or history held no interest for him.

He had a series of McJobs, but then he became a tattoo artist. He realized he could still make his art his way, but that wasn't going to pay. Now he has a job where he hangs out and works with other artists.

He may be doing his 2nd Tasmanian devil tattoo of the day, but in his mind, he's imagining the work he will create on the canvas he can now afford to buy.

He has learned the importance of establishing a brand in the industry though. He is working conventions and social media, so he makes an exponentially greater amount of money than when he started. his skill has improved, but the primary difference is in people's perceptions of the value of his work.

That's the hustle.


Oh, and my kid's name? Roy.
 
2023-02-02 11:15:53 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


The basic premise of pop art was that, like it or not, the shared mind space in which artists operated in earlier generations concerned mythological or religious subjects that had by the mid 20th century been supplanted by crass mass culture of junk food, comic books and pop music.  To make this the subject of your art was holding a mirror to the society that produced you.
 
2023-02-02 11:34:24 AM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Wendigogo: Copying other artists has been a learning tool used in art schools for pretty much ever. You don't try passing it off as yours though.

I grew up with a version one of these in pretty much every kid magazine:

[Fark user image image 364x500]


Heh, yes. I remember seeing the turtle.
 
2023-02-02 11:44:54 AM  
I drew normally so they would see what a waste of time me taking art class was and I would be able to take more science

/They still made me take art
 
2023-02-02 11:45:33 AM  

SoberCannibal: [Fark user image 234x215]

The basic premise of pop art was that, like it or not, the shared mind space in which artists operated in earlier generations concerned mythological or religious subjects that had by the mid 20th century been supplanted by crass mass culture of junk food, comic books and pop music.  To make this the subject of your art was holding a mirror to the society that produced you.


This might have hit more meaningfully by demonstrating it with a juxtaposition, but I can only say that in hindsight after society has gotten further away from creating art for its own sake and instead creating art for commercial success.
 
2023-02-02 1:00:41 PM  

NeoCortex42: Was expecting that headline to end with Greg Land.


From the comments, I see we're not the only ones thinking that...
 
2023-02-02 1:27:20 PM  

harleyquinnical: SoberCannibal: [Fark user image 234x215]

The basic premise of pop art was that, like it or not, the shared mind space in which artists operated in earlier generations concerned mythological or religious subjects that had by the mid 20th century been supplanted by crass mass culture of junk food, comic books and pop music.  To make this the subject of your art was holding a mirror to the society that produced you.

This might have hit more meaningfully by demonstrating it with a juxtaposition, but I can only say that in hindsight after society has gotten further away from creating art for its own sake and instead creating art for commercial success.


I've worked with and around artists all my life, in museums, art schools and galleries, as a museum grunt, studio assistant, gallery manager before moving into animation.  There are a few fools who chase commercial success in a field with a less than 0.1% chance of that happening.  The majority of artists I have known simply have no choice.  They can't turn off that part of their minds.

What I did see again and again is artists experimenting with different approaches, trying to find something both novel and meaningful.  If they happened to find something that strikes a chord with the market the experimentation dropped off as they now had a brand.  The honorable ones were able to finance the production of their experimental work with sales of the tried and true product.

I understand the forces at work here.  As a gallery manager I was besieged by desperate artists trying to get some recognition for their work in an indifferent market.  Those that found some modicum of success, not necessarily financial, but recognition at least, usually were scarred by the dues they had paid.

And Lichtenstein in more cynical moments called his work baubles for the wealthy.
 
2023-02-02 2:17:08 PM  

harleyquinnical: I remember my middle school art class having a unit actually focused on Roy Lichtenstein.  His technique is basically scaling up a portion of a panel as if it were scanned into a vector art program like Adobe Illustrator.  That being said, if you are going to give him crap for it, then give Warhol crap for the soup can.


Absolutely. They were both hacks. The soup cans were the most talent-based thing Warhol ever did. I went to a Warhol exhibition long after his death where one of the highlights was a group of mylar balloons being blown around by a fan. Warhol was just playing an elaborate prank on the art world, Lichtenstein did the same, and millions have fallen for it ever since.
 
2023-02-02 2:33:40 PM  

midigod: harleyquinnical: I remember my middle school art class having a unit actually focused on Roy Lichtenstein.  His technique is basically scaling up a portion of a panel as if it were scanned into a vector art program like Adobe Illustrator.  That being said, if you are going to give him crap for it, then give Warhol crap for the soup can.

Absolutely. They were both hacks. The soup cans were the most talent-based thing Warhol ever did. I went to a Warhol exhibition long after his death where one of the highlights was a group of mylar balloons being blown around by a fan. Warhol was just playing an elaborate prank on the art world, Lichtenstein did the same, and millions have fallen for it ever since.


Simple minds love calling post-modern art pranks or jokes by knowing scam-artists. "Anyone could do that, even my kid" they will say, as if that's an original thought. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but people should really inform themselves before recycling cliched lines that only reveal their own ignorance.

Warhol was a Master who will be studied and appreciated long long after your name is forgotten. You can love it or leave it but calling it crap is just lazy
 
2023-02-02 2:45:32 PM  

Kid the Universe: midigod: harleyquinnical: I remember my middle school art class having a unit actually focused on Roy Lichtenstein.  His technique is basically scaling up a portion of a panel as if it were scanned into a vector art program like Adobe Illustrator.  That being said, if you are going to give him crap for it, then give Warhol crap for the soup can.

Absolutely. They were both hacks. The soup cans were the most talent-based thing Warhol ever did. I went to a Warhol exhibition long after his death where one of the highlights was a group of mylar balloons being blown around by a fan. Warhol was just playing an elaborate prank on the art world, Lichtenstein did the same, and millions have fallen for it ever since.

Simple minds love calling post-modern art pranks or jokes by knowing scam-artists. "Anyone could do that, even my kid" they will say, as if that's an original thought. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but people should really inform themselves before recycling cliched lines that only reveal their own ignorance.

Warhol was a Master who will be studied and appreciated long long after your name is forgotten. You can love it or leave it but calling it crap is just lazy


His legacy will ability to mock pop culture. I'm not saying his work doesn't have value beyond that, but in the genpop, that will be his legacy. And his sarcasm of pop culture was as prescient as anyone else's view that I've seen. There may be a greater (at least more accessible) value in that than the artistic merit of his work.
 
2023-02-02 2:48:40 PM  

SoberCannibal: harleyquinnical: SoberCannibal: [Fark user image 234x215]

The basic premise of pop art was that, like it or not, the shared mind space in which artists operated in earlier generations concerned mythological or religious subjects that had by the mid 20th century been supplanted by crass mass culture of junk food, comic books and pop music.  To make this the subject of your art was holding a mirror to the society that produced you.

This might have hit more meaningfully by demonstrating it with a juxtaposition, but I can only say that in hindsight after society has gotten further away from creating art for its own sake and instead creating art for commercial success.

I've worked with and around artists all my life, in museums, art schools and galleries, as a museum grunt, studio assistant, gallery manager before moving into animation.  There are a few fools who chase commercial success in a field with a less than 0.1% chance of that happening.  The majority of artists I have known simply have no choice.  They can't turn off that part of their minds.

What I did see again and again is artists experimenting with different approaches, trying to find something both novel and meaningful.  If they happened to find something that strikes a chord with the market the experimentation dropped off as they now had a brand.  The honorable ones were able to finance the production of their experimental work with sales of the tried and true product.

I understand the forces at work here.  As a gallery manager I was besieged by desperate artists trying to get some recognition for their work in an indifferent market.  Those that found some modicum of success, not necessarily financial, but recognition at least, usually were scarred by the dues they had paid.

And Lichtenstein in more cynical moments called his work baubles for the wealthy.


Have a couple relatively successful artists in my family.. one taught printmaking at ACAD (Alberta College of Art and Design) and the other one did various large art pieces for office towers and some other stuff. They are both in there late 60s early 70s. The other artists in my family (kids of the one , got more into photography and to pay her bills she did design work and ran a burger shops social media presence. While they all do the pieces that they want to do they all had other jobs to pay the bills etc.  Or if you look at the folks who do commissions online.. when they draw what they want to draw they get very little interest.. but open it up to drawing NSFW Furry porn and you are cashing in.
 
2023-02-02 3:01:26 PM  
darkmayo:

Have a couple relatively successful artists in my family.. one taught printmaking at ACAD (Alberta College of Art and Design) and t ...

That's it.  You'd better have a day job.  In fact if you are true to the need, better to explore it with no prospect of compensation.  At least then you are not being pushed by the market.
 
2023-02-02 3:11:55 PM  

claytonemery: Russ Heath drew a comic about how he was paid $50 for the page, and Lichenstein copied it and got $4M.  The museum even offered to host Russ to stand next to their new painting.  Russ couldn't even afford to buy wine for his later years.

Russ Heath "Bottle of Wine"


With thanks to the late, great Darwyn Cooke and the Heroes Initiative. For those who don't know the charity, this group of mostly volunteers does what the comics industry *should* be doing.
 
2023-02-02 3:20:53 PM  
someone would like a word
Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 3:22:05 PM  
I used to copy Elfquest comics and learned a lot about drawing eyes, hair, shading, and other objects via Wendy Pini.  I did my book reports with copies of my favorite scenes, and modified and colored them my own way.  I used to show the other kids how to do it, and I don't think I was sly enough to pretend I was doing anything else.

I think the crayons might have thrown the teachers off a bit, though.  I didn't do high resolution copies - it was like ... hold the page over the television, then put a piece of paper over that and crayon the outlines.  Then color in the things I liked.

It was the original black & white bigger comics, so it was likely easier than most comics to do that with.
 
2023-02-02 3:26:41 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Wendigogo: Copying other artists has been a learning tool used in art schools for pretty much ever. You don't try passing it off as yours though.

I grew up with a version one of these in pretty much every kid magazine:

[Fark user image 364x500]


I always preferred 
external-preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 3:29:44 PM  
I saw an exhibit on Lichtenstein, including his sketches and preliminary work. He was definitely not a "tracer";
 
2023-02-02 3:30:44 PM  
What a tracer may look like:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 3:37:53 PM  

claytonemery: Russ Heath drew a comic about how he was paid $50 for the page, and Lichenstein copied it and got $4M.  The museum even offered to host Russ to stand next to their new painting.  Russ couldn't even afford to buy wine for his later years.

Russ Heath "Bottle of Wine"


The Hero Initiative talked about sounds great, but it reminds me of this:

The Dystopian Reality Of All Those "Inspirational" Stories - SOME MORE NEWS
Youtube fYOA8gXpios


As for Lichtenstein getting 4 million for a work based off this guy's work, well, that's the difference between work-for-hire and "art"
 
2023-02-02 3:42:28 PM  

darkmayo: SoberCannibal: harleyquinnical: SoberCannibal: [Fark user image 234x215]

The basic premise of pop art was that, like it or not, the shared mind space in which artists operated in earlier generations concerned mythological or religious subjects that had by the mid 20th century been supplanted by crass mass culture of junk food, comic books and pop music.  To make this the subject of your art was holding a mirror to the society that produced you.

This might have hit more meaningfully by demonstrating it with a juxtaposition, but I can only say that in hindsight after society has gotten further away from creating art for its own sake and instead creating art for commercial success.

I've worked with and around artists all my life, in museums, art schools and galleries, as a museum grunt, studio assistant, gallery manager before moving into animation.  There are a few fools who chase commercial success in a field with a less than 0.1% chance of that happening.  The majority of artists I have known simply have no choice.  They can't turn off that part of their minds.

What I did see again and again is artists experimenting with different approaches, trying to find something both novel and meaningful.  If they happened to find something that strikes a chord with the market the experimentation dropped off as they now had a brand.  The honorable ones were able to finance the production of their experimental work with sales of the tried and true product.

I understand the forces at work here.  As a gallery manager I was besieged by desperate artists trying to get some recognition for their work in an indifferent market.  Those that found some modicum of success, not necessarily financial, but recognition at least, usually were scarred by the dues they had paid.

And Lichtenstein in more cynical moments called his work baubles for the wealthy.

Have a couple relatively successful artists in my family.. one taught printmaking at ACAD (Alberta College of Art and Design) and t ...


As someone who spent years playing in 'working bands', I can attest - nobody wants to hear your originals, just play covers of the hits, collect your pittance and GTFO.
 
2023-02-02 3:47:20 PM  

midigod: harleyquinnical: I remember my middle school art class having a unit actually focused on Roy Lichtenstein.  His technique is basically scaling up a portion of a panel as if it were scanned into a vector art program like Adobe Illustrator.  That being said, if you are going to give him crap for it, then give Warhol crap for the soup can.

Absolutely. They were both hacks. The soup cans were the most talent-based thing Warhol ever did. I went to a Warhol exhibition long after his death where one of the highlights was a group of mylar balloons being blown around by a fan. Warhol was just playing an elaborate prank on the art world, Lichtenstein did the same, and millions have fallen for it ever since.


The Dada artistic movement was created as a reaction to WWI, and was designed to "kill art" by presenting garbage and nonsense as high art. It failed because the artists underestimated how gullible the art world is.
 
2023-02-02 3:48:19 PM  

shabu: Kid the Universe: midigod: harleyquinnical: I remember my middle school art class having a unit actually focused on Roy Lichtenstein.  His technique is basically scaling up a portion of a panel as if it were scanned into a vector art program like Adobe Illustrator.  That being said, if you are going to give him crap for it, then give Warhol crap for the soup can.

Absolutely. They were both hacks. The soup cans were the most talent-based thing Warhol ever did. I went to a Warhol exhibition long after his death where one of the highlights was a group of mylar balloons being blown around by a fan. Warhol was just playing an elaborate prank on the art world, Lichtenstein did the same, and millions have fallen for it ever since.

Simple minds love calling post-modern art pranks or jokes by knowing scam-artists. "Anyone could do that, even my kid" they will say, as if that's an original thought. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but people should really inform themselves before recycling cliched lines that only reveal their own ignorance.

Warhol was a Master who will be studied and appreciated long long after your name is forgotten. You can love it or leave it but calling it crap is just lazy

His legacy will ability to mock pop culture. I'm not saying his work doesn't have value beyond that, but in the genpop, that will be his legacy. And his sarcasm of pop culture was as prescient as anyone else's view that I've seen. There may be a greater (at least more accessible) value in that than the artistic merit of his work.


You say he mocked pop culture but I'd say reflected and even forged pop culture is more accurate. He was one of the most important, prescient, and still relevant visual artists of the last century. I would say THE most important as I am very much a fan of the artist (not the man) but pretty much all reasonable people who actually study art and culture would include him in at least an informal top 10 (and that's based on his artistic merit not his celebrity or cultural commentary).

It would seem many in this thread and elsewhere have a very narrow view of what art is and should be. Art is not merely the ranking of pretty pictures or impressive photorealistic renderings that showcase technical virtuosity. I would say that contemporary and modern fine art is most often not those things and is generally discussed and debated more on concept than visual appeal.

There is grift and fraud in the art world as there is in everything and there were some stereotypical conman aspects to some of these artists. There is also serious and thorough academic analysis and appreciation for the masters. Whole fields of study, in fact. Warhol and modern fine art in general might not be your cup of tea, and that's fine, but reducing the legacy of these giants to "crap" or "mockery" or "my kid could do that" just shows ignorance and a proud and willful one at that since there's a wealth of information and nuance to be learned on the subject if one wanted.

/looking forward to checking out this documentary
 
2023-02-02 3:49:32 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 3:51:46 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 3:52:59 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-02-02 4:40:16 PM  

Kid the Universe: shabu: Kid the Universe: midigod: harleyquinnical: I remember my middle school art class having a unit actually focused on Roy Lichtenstein.  His technique is basically scaling up a portion of a panel as if it were scanned into a vector art program like Adobe Illustrator.  That being said, if you are going to give him crap for it, then give Warhol crap for the soup can.

Absolutely. They were both hacks. The soup cans were the most talent-based thing Warhol ever did. I went to a Warhol exhibition long after his death where one of the highlights was a group of mylar balloons being blown around by a fan. Warhol was just playing an elaborate prank on the art world, Lichtenstein did the same, and millions have fallen for it ever since.

Simple minds love calling post-modern art pranks or jokes by knowing scam-artists. "Anyone could do that, even my kid" they will say, as if that's an original thought. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course but people should really inform themselves before recycling cliched lines that only reveal their own ignorance.

Warhol was a Master who will be studied and appreciated long long after your name is forgotten. You can love it or leave it but calling it crap is just lazy

His legacy will ability to mock pop culture. I'm not saying his work doesn't have value beyond that, but in the genpop, that will be his legacy. And his sarcasm of pop culture was as prescient as anyone else's view that I've seen. There may be a greater (at least more accessible) value in that than the artistic merit of his work.

You say he mocked pop culture but I'd say reflected and even forged pop culture is more accurate. He was one of the most important, prescient, and still relevant visual artists of the last century. I would say THE most important as I am very much a fan of the artist (not the man) but pretty much all reasonable people who actually study art and culture would include him in at least an informal top 10 (and that's based on his artistic merit not his celebrity or cultural commentary).

It would seem many in this thread and elsewhere have a very narrow view of what art is and should be. Art is not merely the ranking of pretty pictures or impressive photorealistic renderings that showcase technical virtuosity. I would say that contemporary and modern fine art is most often not those things and is generally discussed and debated more on concept than visual appeal.

There is grift and fraud in the art world as there is in everything and there were some stereotypical conman aspects to some of these artists. There is also serious and thorough academic analysis and appreciation for the masters. Whole fields of study, in fact. Warhol and modern fine art in general might not be your cup of tea, and that's fine, but reducing the legacy of these giants to "crap" or "mockery" or "my kid could do that" just shows ignorance and a proud and willful one at that since there's a wealth of information and nuance to be learned on the subject if one wanted.

/looking forward to checking out this documentary


Directly copying someone else's art and making it bigger isn't art. It's copying.
 
2023-02-02 4:46:54 PM  
meanmutton: Directly copying someone else's art and making it bigger isn't art. It's copying.

No shiat. Not what we were talking about but nice point I guess?
 
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