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(The Nation)   Indie musician is blasted for being a hypocrite after writing satirical song about rich people. So she patiently explains how working successfully for 20 years, touring widely, and releasing a few albums gets you $30,000 a year and 200 grand in debt   (thenation.com) divider line
59
    More: Sad, United States, United Kingdom, Record label, Music industry, Economy, Revenue, Industry, Internet  
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2403 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 01 Feb 2023 at 1:23 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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buttercat
2023-02-01 11:16:20 AM  
I love her music and her views.

And I hate that it's so hard for creative people to do their thing.
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]
2023-02-01 11:20:21 AM  
It must be nice to have a husband who will financially support your failing business.

/runs
 
xanadian [TotalFark]
2023-02-01 11:39:50 AM  
From wikipedia:
Blanton has released eight studio albums and three EPs, all with a "pay what you please" pricing strategy.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Stephen_Falken [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-01 12:33:25 PM  
Yep this person knows exactly how the music industry is. The picture they used for the article was a turn-off and I didn't want to like her, but she's ok. I can't support her on Patreon right now (I have my own set of 6 artists I can afford), but while I wish her best of luck, I know what's in store for her. All of us who went before her, we know.

She'll have a nice time, and age out of the industry in around a decade. She'll assume a sort of emeritus position, contributing talent, knowledge and financial support to younger friends' projects. She'll hopefully not die alone in a gutter somewhere, and slowly fade away among loved ones, reliving a bunch of crazy-ass memories. That's not so bad.
 
leviosaurus [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-01 12:57:05 PM  
Nice for someone to break down the realities of the music industry.

I've been in a few garage bands, played a few gigs. Never meant to take it seriously, we always just wanted to make enough money to pay for our gear.

You never make enough money to pay for your gear.
 
egomann
2023-02-01 1:34:32 PM  
That was an excellent read, and I am happy that I have no musical talent at all.
 
Telephone Sanitizer Second Class
2023-02-01 1:35:09 PM  
I made pretty good money as a gigging bass player in my 20s, but that was mostly due to selling weed to my bandmates.
 
kmgenesis23
2023-02-01 1:35:32 PM  
Never heard of her but she's very eloquent about the same struggle musicians have been facing since ... ever, certainly amplified by streaming as the popular means of consumption.

I'll urge people to check out the Future of Music Coalition, founded by Jenny Toomey (of the Simple Machines record label and band Tsunami). Ms. Toomey is now at the Ford Foundation but her good work continues....

https://www.futureofmusic.org/
 
bhcompy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-01 1:35:44 PM  
Luckily, I never went to college

That's a weird adverb to use in that context
 
STRYPERSWINE
2023-02-01 1:36:30 PM  
As of my last tax return (so about a year), I have been recording studio quality songs in my office on an iMac with Logic Pro and Amplitube software as my new hobby.  She's still spending $25,000-$50,000 to record, mix, and master.  I'm no Bob Rock at this early stage but with every song/project, I get exponentially better.

I get everything else that she's saying, but I don't understand why she's paying so much to record.  I thought the days of expensive recording studios were behind us.
 
JohnBigBootay
2023-02-01 1:38:16 PM  
This is true of actors and writers and I suppose painters and poets etc.There are more talented people who can make art than there are proletariat dollars that can support them all at a living wage. I agree that the financial system is farked and skewed to the uber rich. And that the music industry is woefully corrupt. But I don't think 'fixing' that would lead to all the working artists being able to move to the suburbs and buy a house.

That, and for every person like this wonderful songwriter there's a dozen struggling songwriters who would kill to be able to somewhat make a living from their art. From their perspective she's living the dream. Human nature is to want more. Buddha out front should have told 'ya.
 
Rapmaster2000
2023-02-01 1:40:04 PM  
I bet she got rich writing that guest column for The Nation!
 
Shaggy_C
2023-02-01 1:40:23 PM  

bhcompy: Luckily, I never went to college

That's a weird adverb to use in that context


Well yeah, she's only 200k in debt, not 400k.
 
bhcompy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-01 1:42:24 PM  

Shaggy_C: bhcompy: Luckily, I never went to college

That's a weird adverb to use in that context

Well yeah, she's only 200k in debt, not 400k.


Given her age, she probably would've been fine.  She was college age before it really exploded (state college was $750/semester here in 01, and she would've been 03)
 
VaportrailFilms
2023-02-01 1:45:43 PM  
I have a suspicion this isn't the default experience.
Like, letting your business accumulate that much debt is a sign the business isn't profitable, right? I feel like a lot of other people would've quit before the 6-digit mark and done something else.
 
undernova
2023-02-01 1:48:12 PM  

STRYPERSWINE: As of my last tax return (so about a year), I have been recording studio quality songs in my office on an iMac with Logic Pro and Amplitube software as my new hobby.  She's still spending $25,000-$50,000 to record, mix, and master.  I'm no Bob Rock at this early stage but with every song/project, I get exponentially better.

I get everything else that she's saying, but I don't understand why she's paying so much to record.  I thought the days of expensive recording studios were behind us.


I don't celebrate my bandleader's debt, but I am glad my work with him was recorded, engineered, and mastered by professionals in professional spaces. While some works thrive under independent recording means, some works suffer - and people can tell.
 
browntimmy
2023-02-01 1:49:00 PM  
People who "make things" in general seem undervalued to me. Most people spend the majority of their free time consuming things with little appreciation from where it came from. Like it just appeared out of the ether.

"Oh, you made a song that millions of people liked, that's nice, why don't you get a real job like me driving the forklift at a pickle factory."
 
Red Shirt Blues
2023-02-01 1:49:54 PM  
explains how working successfully for 20 years, touring widely, and releasing a few albums gets you $30,000 a year and 200 grand in debt

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
CptnSpldng [BareFark]
2023-02-01 1:54:59 PM  

Telephone Sanitizer Second Class: I made pretty good money as a gigging bass player in my 20s, but that was mostly due to selling weed to my bandmates.


Guitar players are a dime a dozen, but a bass player can always get work.
 
undernova
2023-02-01 1:57:31 PM  

Red Shirt Blues: explains how working successfully for 20 years, touring widely, and releasing a few albums gets you $30,000 a year and 200 grand in debt

[Fark user image image 242x209]


Not to belabor the meaning of her statement, but the journey's the point of it all. She is successful. And that success comes with a debt exacerbated by certain aspects of being an American musician doing business in the American music business.
 
T.rex
2023-02-01 1:59:50 PM  

buttercat: I love her music and her views.

And I hate that it's so hard for creative people to do their thing.


Its not some constitutional right to be rewarded for being creative.   Nor is a creative person forced to do it professionally.    If they DO do it professionally, its the artist's responsibility to make a connection to the audience in a profitable way, and if they can't do that, its their failure and their failure alone.
 
Marcos P
2023-02-01 2:10:05 PM  

Telephone Sanitizer Second Class: I made pretty good money as a gigging bass player in my 20s, but that was mostly due to selling weed to my bandmates.


Thanks again for the hookup dude
 
wiredroach
2023-02-01 2:11:24 PM  

Red Shirt Blues: explains how working successfully for 20 years, touring widely, and releasing a few albums gets you $30,000 a year and 200 grand in debt

[Fark user image 242x209]


She's actually out there doing it. That's the point of the article. Unless you're at the very tippy top of the music biz these days, success isn't measured in cash.
 
wiredroach
2023-02-01 2:17:33 PM  

T.rex: buttercat: I love her music and her views.

And I hate that it's so hard for creative people to do their thing.

Its not some constitutional right to be rewarded for being creative.   Nor is a creative person forced to do it professionally.    If they DO do it professionally, its the artist's responsibility to make a connection to the audience in a profitable way, and if they can't do that, its their failure and their failure alone.


I'm sure John Fogerty would agree...
 
cousin-merle
2023-02-01 2:28:27 PM  

CptnSpldng: Telephone Sanitizer Second Class: I made pretty good money as a gigging bass player in my 20s, but that was mostly due to selling weed to my bandmates.

Guitar players are a dime a dozen, but a bass player can always get work.


Because it's harder to play 4 strings versus 6?

/yes, im being facecious
 
MelGoesOnTour
2023-02-01 2:33:51 PM  

STRYPERSWINE: I thought the days of expensive recording studios were behind us.


The thing with home studios is that if you're not a seasoned recording professional it's more likely than not that you do not know what you're doing wrong. And the masses, though also not professional engineers, can hear it.

I work with video and see people all the time who think they can do it all on their own because they have a nice camera and decent editing equipment. And editing today is MUCH easier and ultra-less-expensive than it was even 20 years ago. That makes everyone want to get in on it and all of a sudden they see themselves as experts.

As far as I see it, the quality of this sort of work has gone down hill tremendously over the years. Things that one would avoid when shooting film (i.e., jump cuts, flares, et al) are now seen as being "artistic".

Yeah, I guess tastes change over time but it's not always for the better.
 
jimmythrust
2023-02-01 2:49:07 PM  
Steve Albini nods from the 90s. And then things just got worse.
Didn't We Deserve a Look at the Industry the Way it Really Is?

Da da, da dum
Repeat
Repeat
 
STRYPERSWINE
2023-02-01 2:53:18 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: STRYPERSWINE: I thought the days of expensive recording studios were behind us.

The thing with home studios is that if you're not a seasoned recording professional it's more likely than not that you do not know what you're doing wrong. And the masses, though also not professional engineers, can hear it.

I work with video and see people all the time who think they can do it all on their own because they have a nice camera and decent editing equipment. And editing today is MUCH easier and ultra-less-expensive than it was even 20 years ago. That makes everyone want to get in on it and all of a sudden they see themselves as experts.

As far as I see it, the quality of this sort of work has gone down hill tremendously over the years. Things that one would avoid when shooting film (i.e., jump cuts, flares, et al) are now seen as being "artistic".

Yeah, I guess tastes change over time but it's not always for the better.


Heh, I'm all "I CAN TYPING" when it comes to video editing, even something as simple as making a slideshow for my songs so I can put them on youtube.  But recording music, I get exponentially better with each project.  I watch a lot of youtube tutorials and subscribe to a couple of newsletters (and learn from painstakingly long mistakes).

btw lens flare is MONEY!

On a somewhat related note, I reached out to a couple of my favorite bass players (James Lomenzo and Billy Sheehan) when I was doing my research before I bought anything and they actually responded to me and said that they've put tracks on CDs that were recorded on their iPads.  Billy Sheehan's home studio is justifiably more complex than mine, but not THAT much more complex.  His complexity is in his bass gear, not the recording equipment.

Anyway, just a couple of random thoughts.
 
Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste
2023-02-01 3:00:52 PM  
Everything Is Free
Youtube Sy6VMDXB2SQ


Relevant
 
midigod
2023-02-01 3:12:45 PM  

STRYPERSWINE: But recording music, I get exponentially better with each project. I watch a lot of youtube tutorials and subscribe to a couple of newsletters (and learn from painstakingly long mistakes).


If one is an industry professional, as Carsie Blanton is, they won't have time to learn recording from painstakingly long mistakes. There just isn't enough time (and the audience will lose patience) to learn how to do every job, when you're already writing songs, practicing your instrument, touring, and promoting. People spend lifetimes learning how to do these jobs well, and she is doing the responsible and professional thing by paying people to do the jobs she doesn't have to learn. She's already spending her lifetime becoming a better musician. That's part of being a part of the music business.

People expect an extremely good product, with every job being done. Except in very rare circumstances, if your songs are great, you're crap as an engineer. And vice versa. Getting good takes a LOT of time.
 
Geotpf
2023-02-01 3:26:25 PM  

VaportrailFilms: I have a suspicion this isn't the default experience.
Like, letting your business accumulate that much debt is a sign the business isn't profitable, right? I feel like a lot of other people would've quit before the 6-digit mark and done something else.


Also, she refused the most obvious way to make money (a record deal with a large record label).  Yeah, yeah, that means you give up some or all creative control, hence the term "selling out".

Obviously, she prefers creative control to money.  Good for her, I guess.
 
LewDux [OhFark]
2023-02-01 3:28:21 PM  

wiredroach: Red Shirt Blues: explains how working successfully for 20 years, touring widely, and releasing a few albums gets you $30,000 a year and 200 grand in debt

[Fark user image 242x209]

She's actually out there doing it. That's the point of the article. Unless you're at the very tippy top of the music biz these days, success isn't measured in cash.


No, the point is that she's not rich and therefore is allowed to write satirical songs about the rich
 
Red Shirt Blues
2023-02-01 3:30:22 PM  

wiredroach: Red Shirt Blues: explains how working successfully for 20 years, touring widely, and releasing a few albums gets you $30,000 a year and 200 grand in debt

[Fark user image 242x209]

She's actually out there doing it. That's the point of the article. Unless you're at the very tippy top of the music biz these days, success isn't measured in cash.


I get that but at the end of the day things may suck. No savings, no retirement, no means of support in her old age. She's pushing 40 and struggling to pay rent. There is a cold steel reality in life. I live in PDX and there are plenty of old artsy folk who can't seem to grasp there are reasons why they live in poverty and desperation.
 
TelemonianAjax [TotalFark]
2023-02-01 3:34:01 PM  

midigod: STRYPERSWINE: But recording music, I get exponentially better with each project. I watch a lot of youtube tutorials and subscribe to a couple of newsletters (and learn from painstakingly long mistakes).

If one is an industry professional, as Carsie Blanton is, they won't have time to learn recording from painstakingly long mistakes. There just isn't enough time (and the audience will lose patience) to learn how to do every job, when you're already writing songs, practicing your instrument, touring, and promoting. People spend lifetimes learning how to do these jobs well, and she is doing the responsible and professional thing by paying people to do the jobs she doesn't have to learn. She's already spending her lifetime becoming a better musician. That's part of being a part of the music business.

People expect an extremely good product, with every job being done. Except in very rare circumstances, if your songs are great, you're crap as an engineer. And vice versa. Getting good takes a LOT of time.


I have a slightly artistic hobby that quickly ramped up to the purchase of a $10,000 embroidery machine. Wildly different than music but I see the same flavor of problems as I get bigger. I don't know how to do graphic design but I can convert into embroidery stitches. When I brute force graphic design it is okay but not great and I don't have the time to learn how to be a great graphic designer. Nor do I have time to learn how to use social media for marketing purposes or do my own bookkeeping. I very quickly was faced with either spending enormous hours on skills unrelated to what I wanted to be doing in the first place or dribbling money out to other people who know how to do this and can do it better and faster than me. I think the world is just too complex for one person to reasonably expect to learn the skills necessary to pull off bringing creative content to market.
 
Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste
2023-02-01 3:36:42 PM  

Geotpf: VaportrailFilms: I have a suspicion this isn't the default experience.
Like, letting your business accumulate that much debt is a sign the business isn't profitable, right? I feel like a lot of other people would've quit before the 6-digit mark and done something else.

Also, she refused the most obvious way to make money (a record deal with a large record label).  Yeah, yeah, that means you give up some or all creative control, hence the term "selling out".

Obviously, she prefers creative control to money.  Good for her, I guess.


Most people who sign with labels don't earn money. You get that, right?
 
LewDux [OhFark]
2023-02-01 3:38:30 PM  
The Rich Man's Prayer
Youtube Dl_7EdsPTIs
The Matthew Herbert Big Band - The Audience - YouTube
3eLj-YvewsY  R84yp7AGVFE
 
MelGoesOnTour
2023-02-01 3:42:03 PM  

STRYPERSWINE: MelGoesOnTour: STRYPERSWINE: I thought the days of expensive recording studios were behind us.

The thing with home studios is that if you're not a seasoned recording professional it's more likely than not that you do not know what you're doing wrong. And the masses, though also not professional engineers, can hear it.

I work with video and see people all the time who think they can do it all on their own because they have a nice camera and decent editing equipment. And editing today is MUCH easier and ultra-less-expensive than it was even 20 years ago. That makes everyone want to get in on it and all of a sudden they see themselves as experts.

As far as I see it, the quality of this sort of work has gone down hill tremendously over the years. Things that one would avoid when shooting film (i.e., jump cuts, flares, et al) are now seen as being "artistic".

Yeah, I guess tastes change over time but it's not always for the better.

Heh, I'm all "I CAN TYPING" when it comes to video editing, even something as simple as making a slideshow for my songs so I can put them on youtube.  But recording music, I get exponentially better with each project.  I watch a lot of youtube tutorials and subscribe to a couple of newsletters (and learn from painstakingly long mistakes).

btw lens flare is MONEY!

On a somewhat related note, I reached out to a couple of my favorite bass players (James Lomenzo and Billy Sheehan) when I was doing my research before I bought anything and they actually responded to me and said that they've put tracks on CDs that were recorded on their iPads.  Billy Sheehan's home studio is justifiably more complex than mine, but not THAT much more complex.  His complexity is in his bass gear, not the recording equipment.

Anyway, just a couple of random thoughts.


Please keep in mind I was generalizing; I have no idea what you work on and I wouldn't be judgmental about it anyway. More power to you especially since it sounds like you're having fun and I bet your stuff is great. And I mean that.

Again, generalizing, but even where I work (University) I see rather young professionals who love nothing but a good lens flare...those Star Trek movies have been full of them (whoever that director is who loves those flares)...and so do others, apparently. And I'm not saying that the "new style" doesn't make money. It's more like, as I see it, standards have been lowered to the point that even minimalism is seen as being "bad". Storytelling has taken a backseat to effects and post-production. I used to like this field but since I didn't change over time to accept what I see as lowered standards, well, I just see a lot of stuff that folks go gaga over that I think as crap.

Social media hasn't helped and often tends to be fleeting (remember "Vine"?)...but don't get me started.  ;)
 
chitownmike
2023-02-01 3:49:18 PM  

Telephone Sanitizer Second Class: I made pretty good money as a gigging bass player in my 20s, but that was mostly due to selling weed to my bandmates.


...like every other bass player
 
AuralArgument
2023-02-01 3:54:21 PM  
puffy999:

At least it's not Herbalife.
 
AuralArgument
2023-02-01 4:05:41 PM  
undernova:

Exactly, to properly mix you need perfect pitch.

Also the higher end recording equipment is still massively expensive especially when you're mixing into every available channel.

Sure home recording is great and has it's own merits. But after a certain level, you have to step up quality, unless you're in a lo-fi genre.

Then as you upgrade your equipment there are other investments to be made, socool you just picked up this awesome new microphone, too bad you can hear the plumbing in your basement now, so you gotta do renovations to increase the sound suppression.

Then there is the quality of rack effects vs pedals etc.
 
browntimmy
2023-02-01 4:07:38 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: Social media hasn't helped and often tends to be fleeting (remember "Vine"?)...but don't get me started.  ;)


Last year I saw something making the rounds which was a movie clip that someone had uploaded to TikTok, and because of the app's vertical formatting some of the people talking in some shots were cropped out of the frame. I couldn't believe no one in the comments was pointing it out, either. Am I an out-of-touch dinosaur for thinking this is the wrong app to view this in? Or if you're going to do it, at least take the time to edit it so we're not just looking at a background wall while someone is speaking. This should be objectively bad, but since it was popular enough to get shared by lots of people, is it?
 
AuralArgument
2023-02-01 4:07:44 PM  
undernova:

Only being 200,000 in debt over 20 years as an independent business is successful, look at how much debt wall street banks were in before bailouts.
 
AuralArgument
2023-02-01 4:12:25 PM  
wiredroach:

If her company is able to service the debt then it's between the bank and her.

The bank being a capitalist endeavor saying she's good enough to support.
 
Cinedelic
2023-02-01 4:45:12 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Geotpf: VaportrailFilms: I have a suspicion this isn't the default experience.
Like, letting your business accumulate that much debt is a sign the business isn't profitable, right? I feel like a lot of other people would've quit before the 6-digit mark and done something else.

Also, she refused the most obvious way to make money (a record deal with a large record label).  Yeah, yeah, that means you give up some or all creative control, hence the term "selling out".

Obviously, she prefers creative control to money.  Good for her, I guess.

Most people who sign with labels don't earn money. You get that, right?


Bingo!  Unless you can sell like Taylor Swift, the math on major labels is even more oppressive for artists.  If you're not the kind of musician who can consistently reel off top ten hits or sell 20,000+ seats in an arena, being on a major label will be, at best, useless and, most likely, an anchor financially.
 
rewind2846
2023-02-01 5:04:41 PM  
"Many working musicians have partners or family members who supplement their income with money, credit, a house to live in, or health insurance."

It's always been that way for artists of a genres. All over the world from middle age Europe to ancient China the vast majority of artists, musicians, dancers, writers and anyone else involved in the process of creation has needed sponsors so they could live indoors and eat. Hers is her husband. Only the relative few have not, and of those few that could incorporate their love of creation with a regular job and benefits (like I have), that has meant giving up a huge chunk of the creative spark that makes their existence worth being.

Any artist that works for a games company, an ad studio, or other capitalist enterprise will tell you about the hole created within their spirit just to get a paycheck that will never fill it. But that's what we got in the real world.

This story is relevant to just about any struggling creative, because while people will pay to have any things the arts are usually not on their shopping list. Maybe it's because we like what we do that folks think what we do should be discounted, like teacher's salaries.... as if a job that makes one miserable should pay more than a job you don't mind doing.
 
Mithraic_bullshiat
2023-02-01 5:19:32 PM  
"And despite the financial challenges, we don't usually feel broke-fans have provided my band and I with lavish meals, empty vacation homes, even a post-show mobile oyster bar."

Look out!
 
bhcompy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-02-01 5:48:56 PM  

rewind2846: This story is relevant to just about any struggling creative, because while people will pay to have any things the arts are usually not on their shopping list. Maybe it's because we like what we do that folks think what we do should be discounted, like teacher's salaries.... as if a job that makes one miserable should pay more than a job you don't mind doing.


This ignores the giant nickel and dime machine that lives between the consumer and the artist.  As she said, Spotify pays dick.  Yes, fewer people buy CDs, but it's not like CDs don't suffer the same fate from having the vast majority of the revenue siphoned off by the retailer, the distributor, the production company, etc before a penny gets to the artist.  It's the reason many artists are turning to social media to make money, as it cuts the overhead down to a streaming host and a payment processor.  There are a number of streamers who are successful recording artists that say they make more from Twitch and Youtube than they do from their bands.  People are willing to pay the artists for that level of interaction, and there's not a million middlemen in between taking a cut before the artist gets their $0.004 per stream.  And the bonus of this, according to Herman Li (DragonForce lead guitarist), is that your social media popularity turns into a better negotiating position with the labels, bookers, equipment companies, etc.

Like every other profession, the artists have to adapt with the times if they're looking to maximize their potential earnings.  Blaming the consumer really is the wrong angle here, as the corporate machine makes plenty of money off the consumer already in the current model.

Tracy Patrick Chan, Twitch's head of music, said that of the musicians who can earn $50,000 a year there, their median viewership - the number of people watching their streams at any given time - is only 183. By comparison, it may take 5 million to 10 million streams to yield the same payout from major audio streaming platforms, according to most estimates of those services' per-stream rates.
 
Fark_Guy_Rob
2023-02-01 6:20:20 PM  

T.rex: buttercat: I love her music and her views.

And I hate that it's so hard for creative people to do their thing.

Its not some constitutional right to be rewarded for being creative.   Nor is a creative person forced to do it professionally.    If they DO do it professionally, its the artist's responsibility to make a connection to the audience in a profitable way, and if they can't do that, its their failure and their failure alone.


Also, it's unfathomably easiernow than in the past. The tools and technology mean that anyone with a cellphone can record themselves and distribute their music all over the world to, literally, billions of people.

I remember all the angry tortured artist types lamenting the evil music industry and radio stations that were gatekeeping the music! That only corporate sellouts could get airtime.

The only real barrier now is the insane amount of competition and convincing people to care about your work.
 
wiredroach
2023-02-01 7:15:05 PM  

AuralArgument: wiredroach:

If her company is able to service the debt then it's between the bank and her.

The bank being a capitalist endeavor saying she's good enough to support.


I'm not saying her venture isn't meeting its numbers; the person I was responding to was.
 
CigaretteSmokingMan
2023-02-01 7:33:44 PM  
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson
 
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