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(Guardian)   Corporations: "We can't afford paying workers $15/hour". Also Corporations: "spends upwards of $340 million on union-busting*   (theguardian.com) divider line
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    More: Murica, National Labor Relations Board, Law, Unfair labor practice, New York City, Trade union, Employment, United States, Apple Store  
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507 clicks; posted to Business » on 31 Jan 2023 at 9:55 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



31 Comments     (+0 »)
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hubiestubert [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-31 8:55:03 PM  
Do you people not understand how hard it is to get multi-million dollar packages together for the CEO and other corporate officers, and still pay the peones a living wage?

What about their bankers? What about their investment portfolios? What about their vacation homes? Did you ever think of all the people who rely taking these investments and adding them to their own portfolios?

No, you didn't. Because you're selfish.
 
nmrsnr [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 8:58:51 PM  
Yes, one of those is the cheaper option.

Since business is spending money on one but not the other, I'll let you guess which one it is.
 
NewportBarGuy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-31 9:04:01 PM  
Executives collude with each other through things like "executive compensation committees" stacked with fellow executives or their sycophants" and the politicians they buy at the state, local and national level.

They have been doing this for decades and sucking all of the money that should have, mostly, gone to workers into their pockets.

They have done all this and left us punching each other in the face over what's left.

Know your enemy.
 
nmrsnr [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 9:06:28 PM  
Just out of curiosity, I did the math, and at ~$34k for a $15/hr employee (including taxes and rounding to keep the math nice) that's 10,000 employees' worth of annual salary.
 
Pocket Ninja [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-31 9:10:58 PM  

nmrsnr: Just out of curiosity, I did the math, and at ~$34k for a $15/hr employee (including taxes and rounding to keep the math nice) that's 10,000 employees' worth of annual salary.


But, you see, if unions were allowed they'd be demanding that companies hire more and more and more workers because of rules that say, for example, workers can only work for 10 minutes without needing a half hour break, and that no worker can be scheduled for more than 5 consecutive hours of work without overtime, and that every employee is entitled to 10 hours of PTO for every 1 hour worked, and so on and so on, and just to comply with all the rules the company would have to hire 20,000 or even 30,000 workers and then they'd be bankrupt and just like that everyone would be out of work and on welfare and as a result the government would have to raise the debt ceiling again. So try to understand that the company is only acting in the interests of extreme fiscal responsibility.
 
The Ocho
2023-01-31 10:02:56 PM  
The $320 million is a one time expense where as the salary is recurring. It's the same reason a company will add capacity for $50 million before raising wages $5/hr.

Was literally told this earlier this week when I recommended that we target a different part of the candidate pool to reduce turnover.

I get what they're saying but we can't hire people now, how are we going to find people to run the new $50mm line?

We all know the answer... come on recession!
 
Bith Set Me Up
2023-01-31 10:04:12 PM  

Pocket Ninja: nmrsnr: Just out of curiosity, I did the math, and at ~$34k for a $15/hr employee (including taxes and rounding to keep the math nice) that's 10,000 employees' worth of annual salary.

But, you see, if unions were allowed they'd be demanding that companies hire more and more and more workers because of rules that say, for example, workers can only work for 10 minutes without needing a half hour break, and that no worker can be scheduled for more than 5 consecutive hours of work without overtime, and that every employee is entitled to 10 hours of PTO for every 1 hour worked, and so on and so on, and just to comply with all the rules the company would have to hire 20,000 or even 30,000 workers and then they'd be bankrupt and just like that everyone would be out of work and on welfare and as a result the government would have to raise the debt ceiling again. So try to understand that the company is only acting in the interests of extreme fiscal responsibility.


Fark user imageView Full Size


At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.
 
Gergesa
2023-01-31 10:06:53 PM  

hubiestubert: Do you people not understand how hard it is to get multi-million dollar packages together for the CEO and other corporate officers, and still pay the peones a living wage?

What about their bankers? What about their investment portfolios? What about their vacation homes? Did you ever think of all the people who rely taking these investments and adding them to their own portfolios?

No, you didn't. Because you're selfish.


Also, it is important to not raise the wage because by paying the lower rungs more, that will diminish the achievements of those who are more highly paid.  It is of vital important that a proportional difference between those of lower income and those of higher income be maintained.
 
ZMugg [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 10:12:34 PM  

Gergesa: hubiestubert: Do you people not understand how hard it is to get multi-million dollar packages together for the CEO and other corporate officers, and still pay the peones a living wage?

What about their bankers? What about their investment portfolios? What about their vacation homes? Did you ever think of all the people who rely taking these investments and adding them to their own portfolios?

No, you didn't. Because you're selfish.

Also, it is important to not raise the wage because by paying the lower rungs more, that will diminish the achievements of those who are more highly paid.  It is of vital important that a proportional difference between those of lower income and those of higher income be maintained.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Alwysadydrmr [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 10:16:41 PM  
I love posting this:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
shinji3i
2023-01-31 10:21:08 PM  
employers are charged with violating federal labor law in 41.5% of all union elections, according to a 2019 analysis

media.tenor.comView Full Size
 
trialpha
2023-01-31 10:25:33 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.


Raising the minimum wage that high would cause some inconvenient questions by non-minimum wage workers. Why would somebody with way, way more responsibility / skills / training /etc. tolerate being paid merely 2-4x what somebody with none of that is?
 
Bith Set Me Up
2023-01-31 10:29:11 PM  

trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.

Raising the minimum wage that high would cause some inconvenient questions by non-minimum wage workers. Why would somebody with way, way more responsibility / skills / training /etc. tolerate being paid merely 2-4x what somebody with none of that is?


"Low skills work" was a myth invented by big businesses as an excuse to pay people inadequate wages.

https://www.vox.com/22871812/eric-adams-aoc-low-skill-workers
 
Gergesa
2023-01-31 10:36:24 PM  

trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.

Raising the minimum wage that high would cause some inconvenient questions by non-minimum wage workers. Why would somebody with way, way more responsibility / skills / training /etc. tolerate being paid merely 2-4x what somebody with none of that is?


Workers are more productive that ever so the real question is why are they being denied a wage that reflects their productivity?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-26-dollars-economy-productivity/
 
G. Tarrant [OhFark]
2023-01-31 10:40:49 PM  

nmrsnr: Yes, one of those is the cheaper option.

Since business is spending money on one but not the other, I'll let you guess which one it is.


I don't think it's always necessarily the cheaper option, although one is recurring and the other is one time. But the one time cost that you see is sometimes far, far higher than the change in wages that were being asked for in the first place even over years.

I think it's almost that the ownership class has formed its own union of sorts. Sure, they may compete with each other for who has the bigger yacht or whatever. But when it comes to showing the average worker that they are worthless, they are all united. And as a class, they will spend whatever it takes to reinforce that, because it isn't just about one industry where workers are attempting to leverage the power of a union...it's about ALL of them. Each time it's successful it demonstrates to other workers that they can do it too, and each time it is crushed it discourages numerous others. So they all agree that regardless of cost, it's the one thing they'll all spend on. And in the end, there's gentlemen's agreements that when one company has to overspend a bit to crush iat, well, the ownership class will invest a bit more in them to make up for it - after all, if they don't, then some of them might decide not to spend.

And if worse comes to worse, they have the government, in the form of police, and even (as shown with the rail strike) Congress ready and willing to go to bat for them, even those supposedly on "labor's side".
 
trialpha
2023-01-31 10:42:55 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: "Low skills work" was a myth invented by big businesses as an excuse to pay people inadequate wages.


Fine, I'll use specific examples then. Why should say, a senior engineer with a master's degree only get paid 3x what a fry cook at McDonald's with a high school diploma makes? That fry cook job could be done by basically anyone, whereas the engineering job requires a large amount of skill / training.

Gergesa: Workers are more productive that ever so the real question is why are they being denied a wage that reflects their productivity?


Because the people hoarding all the money will fight that to the end of time? More importantly, they have the means to do so.
 
IgG4 [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 11:11:09 PM  
My company implemented a 4th quarter hiring and travel freeze then the entire management team went to Davos for the WEF @$40k per person (not including travel, meals, and lodging)
 
Nicholas D. Wolfwood [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-31 11:17:14 PM  
Looks like it's time for Barbecued C-Suite, boys...
 
Jeebus Saves
2023-01-31 11:18:04 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.

Raising the minimum wage that high would cause some inconvenient questions by non-minimum wage workers. Why would somebody with way, way more responsibility / skills / training /etc. tolerate being paid merely 2-4x what somebody with none of that is?

"Low skills work" was a myth invented by big businesses as an excuse to pay people inadequate wages.

https://www.vox.com/22871812/eric-adams-aoc-low-skill-workers


What?  When anyone off the street can do your job with an hour of training, you're low skilled.
 
misanthropicsob [OhFark]
2023-01-31 11:18:11 PM  
Just as a reminder, unions have no friends in the government. One side is rabidly and publicly against unions (Republicans) and the other is also against unions policy-wise but try to pretend they're not (Democrats).
 
biznatch [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-31 11:19:08 PM  
"shareholder value"
 
Gergesa
2023-01-31 11:21:51 PM  

trialpha: Fine, I'll use specific examples then. Why should say, a senior engineer with a master's degree only get paid 3x what a fry cook at McDonald's with a high school diploma makes? That fry cook job could be done by basically anyone, whereas the engineering job requires a large amount of skill / training.


Let use some actual number.  For the Engineer say 90k and the fry cook 30k.  We will leave out matters of locality and assume costs of living and so forth are uniform everywhere for simplicity.

Is some harm being committed against the engineer if they only make 60k more than a fry cook?

Is there some rule that a specific proportion of greater income must be observed in favor of the engineer?

trialpha: Because the people hoarding all the money will fight that to the end of time? More importantly, they have the means to do so.


You seem to be arguing on their behalf.
 
rzrwiresunrise
2023-02-01 12:02:40 AM  
Clever Marxist tactic quoting a one year figure when we all know that if workers unionized, companies would have to spend even more than that year after year paying workers higher wages & paying for more benefits.

You commies are just terrible at math.
 
Mugato [TotalFark]
2023-02-01 12:28:50 AM  
Ok, forget the fry cook argument for a sec. I'm a computer programmer and a video editor. I'm very happy with my salary. But I still make about 100x less than the CEO of my company who I know for a fact doesn't do dick. Well maybe he did to get where he is but he's a moron.

I think people would be less pissed at rich people if the rich people actually earned what they made.
 
akallen404
2023-02-01 12:50:47 AM  

nmrsnr: Yes, one of those is the cheaper option.

Since business is spending money on one but not the other, I'll let you guess which one it is.


Your company has $30,000 employees.

Your employees demand a $10,000 a year pay raise.

You spend $310 million dollars defeating their pay raise demand.

How many money did you just save?
 
akallen404
2023-02-01 12:55:16 AM  

trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.

Raising the minimum wage that high would cause some inconvenient questions by non-minimum wage workers. Why would somebody with way, way more responsibility / skills / training /etc. tolerate being paid merely 2-4x what somebody with none of that is?


He shouldn't. That's the point.

I keep hearing people complain "Why should some kid flipping burgers make the same pay as a paramedic?" and never once ask "Why are paramedics only making $15 an hour?"
 
akallen404
2023-02-01 1:03:50 AM  

trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: "Low skills work" was a myth invented by big businesses as an excuse to pay people inadequate wages.

Fine, I'll use specific examples then. Why should say, a senior engineer with a master's degree only get paid 3x what a fry cook at McDonald's with a high school diploma makes? That fry cook job could be done by basically anyone


Your pay rate doesn't reflect your skills, the value of your work, or your value to society. Your pay rate is based entirely on what you're able to convince someone to pay you. In a town full of engineers where nobody knows how to cook, the frycook has by far the highest salary.

Minimum wage laws are meant to offset the power imbalance between employers and workers, giving the latter a stronger position to negotiate for better wages. You may not think the frycook's work is all that valuable, but the frycook doesn't care what you value. He wants to make the most money that he possibly can, just like everybody else.
 
akallen404
2023-02-01 1:05:41 AM  

Jeebus Saves: Bith Set Me Up: trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.

Raising the minimum wage that high would cause some inconvenient questions by non-minimum wage workers. Why would somebody with way, way more responsibility / skills / training /etc. tolerate being paid merely 2-4x what somebody with none of that is?

"Low skills work" was a myth invented by big businesses as an excuse to pay people inadequate wages.

https://www.vox.com/22871812/eric-adams-aoc-low-skill-workers

What?  When anyone off the street can do your job with an hour of training, you're low skilled.


There isn't a single job in America that doesn't fit that description.
 
Nick Nostril
2023-02-01 8:10:14 AM  
NewportBarGuy:

Know your enemy.

The problem, succinctly stated, with most Republican voters. They simply don't.
 
tobcc
2023-02-01 9:59:21 AM  
I see the Fry cook allegory on here.  My personal one.  I work in IT, Big Data for healthcare.  My wife is special education teacher.  She makes 35% of my income.  She has a masters degree and can truly make a difference for society.   She can help a kid that would require 100% care for the rest of their life, and she gives them a chance at being a productive member of society.   This saves money for all of us.   While I switched to Healthcare to make a difference, it is no where near what my wife does and I never graduated from college.
 
Bith Set Me Up
2023-02-01 11:57:01 AM  

trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: "Low skills work" was a myth invented by big businesses as an excuse to pay people inadequate wages.

Fine, I'll use specific examples then. Why should say, a senior engineer with a master's degree only get paid 3x what a fry cook at McDonald's with a high school diploma makes? That fry cook job could be done by basically anyone, whereas the engineering job requires a large amount of skill / training.

Gergesa: Workers are more productive that ever so the real question is why are they being denied a wage that reflects their productivity?

Because the people hoarding all the money will fight that to the end of time? More importantly, they have the means to do so.


Jeebus Saves: Bith Set Me Up: trialpha: Bith Set Me Up: At this point, we should be fighting for a $25/hour or $30/hour minimum wage.

Raising the minimum wage that high would cause some inconvenient questions by non-minimum wage workers. Why would somebody with way, way more responsibility / skills / training /etc. tolerate being paid merely 2-4x what somebody with none of that is?

"Low skills work" was a myth invented by big businesses as an excuse to pay people inadequate wages.

https://www.vox.com/22871812/eric-adams-aoc-low-skill-workers

What?  When anyone off the street can do your job with an hour of training, you're low skilled.


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