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(Ars Technica)   Jury: Cable guy stabbed your grandma? Here's $7 billion. Charter Cable: How about $262 million, which our insurance will pay? And you still owe us for the service call. That's Texas Justice   (arstechnica.com) divider line
139
    More: Murica, Damages, Lawsuit, Crime, Appeal, Jury, Law, Punitive damages, Plaintiff  
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4131 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2023 at 3:50 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



139 Comments     (+0 »)
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fragMasterFlash [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-31 3:53:08 PM  
Utilities in Texas still carry liability insurance? I don't know which is more shocking, that they would be required to do so in the age of STIGGINIT or that any insurer would underwrite such a policy because YEEHAW!
 
Klippoklondike [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 3:53:25 PM  
How much is Jim Carrey worth these days
 
Erma Gerdd
2023-01-31 3:55:32 PM  
But did he fix the cable?
nestflix.funView Full Size
 
kokomo61
2023-01-31 3:56:26 PM  
It's the smart thing to settle - the family will get a $262M (or more likely, 150M or so once contingency fees are deducted). Doesn't bring Grandma back, but makes it possible to ease the pain and send a message.
 
DarkSoulNoHope
2023-01-31 3:56:47 PM  

Erma Gerdd: But did he fix the cable?
[nestflix.fun image 850x566]


He "fixed" the customer, who didn't need cable after that day.
 
Ketchuponsteak
2023-01-31 3:57:51 PM  
That's 262 mill. to much.
 
0xDEC0DE [OhFark]
2023-01-31 3:58:42 PM  

kokomo61: It's the smart thing to settle - the family will get a $262M (or more likely, 150M or so once contingency fees are deducted). Doesn't bring Grandma back, but makes it possible to ease the pain and send a message.


Yeah, the company's insurance company will sure learn... something from this.

Charter isn't on the hook for a dime of it.
 
emersonbiggins
2023-01-31 4:00:54 PM  

0xDEC0DE: kokomo61: It's the smart thing to settle - the family will get a $262M (or more likely, 150M or so once contingency fees are deducted). Doesn't bring Grandma back, but makes it possible to ease the pain and send a message.

Yeah, the company's insurance company will sure learn... something from this.

Charter isn't on the hook for a dime of it.


Let's chat again around policy renewal time.
 
Claude Ballse
2023-01-31 4:01:24 PM  
Used to work for the local cable company. I can tell you that being an installer is one of the worst jobs in the world. Akin to modern day indentured servitude, but with less chance of advancement/freedom.

Save for maintenance techs, everything below is outsourced to contractors who willfully abuse employees and financially take advantage of them.

Cable guys homeless and sleeping in their work trucks because they can't afford rent on their wages? That's a lot more common than you think.
 
moothemagiccow
2023-01-31 4:01:32 PM  
when Thomas caught Holden stealing her credit cards from her purse, he "brutally stabbed the 83-year-old customer with a utility knife supplied by Charter Spectrum and went on a spending spree with her credit cards."

This guy's an idiot. If he wanted money, he should have gotten stabbed to death by a cable technican.
 
bughunter [recently expired TotalFark]
2023-01-31 4:01:58 PM  
Jesus Christ that story is farked up five ways to Family Channel.
 
Optimus Primate [OhFark]
2023-01-31 4:07:04 PM  
I was like "why are they awarding such a high dollar amount"...then I RTFA.
They dun goofed.
 
leeksfromchichis [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 4:08:39 PM  
After the family sued, "Charter Spectrum attorneys used a forged document to try to force the lawsuit into a closed-door arbitration where the results would have been secret and damages for the murder would have been limited to the amount of Ms. Thomas's final bill," the law firm said.


Holy shiat. There needs to be some kind of government free court for people to sue corporations in so they can't be given the run around and outspent with endless appeals. 7 billion seems low after reading this
 
Hoblit [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 4:08:50 PM  

Optimus Primate: I was like "why are they awarding such a high dollar amount"...then I RTFA.
They dun goofed.


Yeah, what's a life worth these days, 262 million, 1.1 billion, 7 billion, 700 billion, 7 trillion?

It's hard to say anymore.
 
TheCableGuy
2023-01-31 4:10:28 PM  
I have no comment.
 
tnpir
2023-01-31 4:14:14 PM  
I practice in Dallas County and followed this case. The entire thing was complete horseshiat engineered by slimy plaintiff lawyers, a blitheringly incompetent judge (who is off the bench) and a total lack of understanding of the law. I for one cannot believe they settled this because the Texas Supreme Court would have absolutely thrown it out--a company cannot be held vicariously liable for the intentional torts of its employees except in very, VERY limited circumstances, and this wasn't it.
 
Hoblit [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 4:15:30 PM  

leeksfromchichis: After the family sued, "Charter Spectrum attorneys used a forged document to try to force the lawsuit into a closed-door arbitration where the results would have been secret and damages for the murder would have been limited to the amount of Ms. Thomas's final bill," the law firm said.


Holy shiat. There needs to be some kind of government free court for people to sue corporations in so they can't be given the run around and outspent with endless appeals. 7 billion seems low after reading this


Now, think of the Charter employees and anyone else who ARE under those corporate arbitration rules.

I swear that if I'm murdered at the office that my wife will get an percentage adjusted severance package. Terms probably negotiated with workman's compensation, based on how long my work projects in-life were projected to take.
 
jake3988 [OhFark]
2023-01-31 4:17:38 PM  

Optimus Primate: I was like "why are they awarding such a high dollar amount"...then I RTFA.
They dun goofed.


Didn't we learn from the Alex Jones thing that Texas limits punitive damages?

Although I can't possibly see in any universe how the punitive damages could EVER amount to 7 billion dollars.  A new word beyond excessive needs invented.

I can't even think up how scummy you'd have to be to warrant that kind of crazy damages.
 
DonkeyDixon
2023-01-31 4:24:21 PM  

kokomo61: It's the smart thing to settle - the family will get a $262M (or more likely, 150M or so once contingency fees are deducted). Doesn't bring Grandma back, but makes it possible to ease the pain and send a message.


When it's an award low enough it's being covered by insurance, the message being sent is "we don't farking care and we'd do it again"
 
DonkeyDixon
2023-01-31 4:25:44 PM  

emersonbiggins: 0xDEC0DE: kokomo61: It's the smart thing to settle - the family will get a $262M (or more likely, 150M or so once contingency fees are deducted). Doesn't bring Grandma back, but makes it possible to ease the pain and send a message.

Yeah, the company's insurance company will sure learn... something from this.

Charter isn't on the hook for a dime of it.

Let's chat again around policy renewal time.


As someone that works for an insurance company, I can assure you the worst this is going to do for Charter is make them change to a different carrier who will be happy to give them a deal
 
Bluenosed Baker
2023-01-31 4:28:52 PM  
Hoblit:

It's more because they forged documents and used them to force a settlement.

Took a big ol' dump on the whole legal process, that I hope is dimly viewed.

Trust only 50% of the judges.

10%of the police.

And NONE of the lawyers.
 
Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs
2023-01-31 4:30:11 PM  

jake3988: Optimus Primate: I was like "why are they awarding such a high dollar amount"...then I RTFA.
They dun goofed.

Didn't we learn from the Alex Jones thing that Texas limits punitive damages?

Although I can't possibly see in any universe how the punitive damages could EVER amount to 7 billion dollars.  A new word beyond excessive needs invented.

I can't even think up how scummy you'd have to be to warrant that kind of crazy damages.


Yeah, that whole 48 days of revenue. Can you imagine if a human being was fined 48 whole days of earnings? At an average US salary that's almost $7,200!!!!

No person would have to pay that exorbitant amount merely for negligently killing someone and then forging documents.
 
dywed88
2023-01-31 4:30:59 PM  

jake3988: Optimus Primate: I was like "why are they awarding such a high dollar amount"...then I RTFA.
They dun goofed.

Didn't we learn from the Alex Jones thing that Texas limits punitive damages?

Although I can't possibly see in any universe how the punitive damages could EVER amount to 7 billion dollars.  A new word beyond excessive needs invented.

I can't even think up how scummy you'd have to be to warrant that kind of crazy damages.


Punitive damages are meant to punish the company. If you want to punish a company with $6 billion of net income, the number needs to be in the billions.
 
Theaetetus
2023-01-31 4:34:23 PM  

tnpir: I practice in Dallas County and followed this case. The entire thing was complete horseshiat engineered by slimy plaintiff lawyers, a blitheringly incompetent judge (who is off the bench) and a total lack of understanding of the law. I for one cannot believe they settled this because the Texas Supreme Court would have absolutely thrown it out--a company cannot be held vicariously liable for the intentional torts of its employees except in very, VERY limited circumstances, and this wasn't it.


I'm shocked by the damage breakdown. Punitive damages, sure, it sounds like Charter did a shiatton to deserve it. But they awarded $69M to the son in actual damages for the loss of his 83-year old mother? What did she do for him? Is this like that Reddit two-broken-arms story?

/... plus another $206M in actual damages to the three daughters?
 
El_Dan
2023-01-31 4:34:43 PM  
$87 million in actual damages? Was the elderly victim earning eight figures or something?
 
Theaetetus
2023-01-31 4:36:57 PM  

El_Dan: $87 million in actual damages? Was the elderly victim earning eight figures or something?


Fark user imageView Full Size

Her pension must have been huge.
 
Fissile
2023-01-31 4:38:26 PM  

Claude Ballse: Used to work for the local cable company. I can tell you that being an installer is one of the worst jobs in the world. Akin to modern day indentured servitude, but with less chance of advancement/freedom.

Save for maintenance techs, everything below is outsourced to contractors who willfully abuse employees and financially take advantage of them.

Cable guys homeless and sleeping in their work trucks because they can't afford rent on their wages? That's a lot more common than you think.


Yes, but most of the cable installers I've run into make used car salesman look like saints by comparison.  I'd rather kiss a lawyer on the mouth than shake hands with the average cable installer.  I'm not joking.  I lived next to a cable installer once and he was one of the most despicable rat pieces of shiat it was ever my displeasure to smell.

Do the cable companies attract this type of employee because of the low pay, or are these the only kind of people who are willing to slither through a crawl space under a house in Gary, IN?
 
Theaetetus
2023-01-31 4:39:13 PM  
Dividing the actual damages down further, I want to see the expert testimony on how her death caused her kids to miss out on $75 million in pecuniary damages alone.
 
Hoblit [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 4:45:37 PM  

Bluenosed Baker: Hoblit:

It's more because they forged documents and used them to force a settlement.

Took a big ol' dump on the whole legal process, that I hope is dimly viewed.

Trust only 50% of the judges.

10%of the police.

And NONE of the lawyers.


Oh, I know. But those lawyers were able to help prove that the arbitration signing was falsified.

I'm just saying that Charter could tell my wife that it was an unforeseeable crime in the office and there would be no 'lawyers' to argue that I didn't sign the arbitration clause. Because they'll be able to point out that I did.

Leaving my wife to whatever lowball number they 'negotiate' and the rest of my post being the joke. :)
 
Someone Else's Alt [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 4:45:38 PM  

Erma Gerdd: But did he fix the cable?
[nestflix.fun image 850x566]


So almost boobies.

Fark, you are slacking.
 
studebaker hoch
2023-01-31 4:45:59 PM  
I would take the 262 million farking dollars and run.

It's plenty. I could never spend it all.
 
Geotpf
2023-01-31 4:46:14 PM  

DonkeyDixon: kokomo61: It's the smart thing to settle - the family will get a $262M (or more likely, 150M or so once contingency fees are deducted). Doesn't bring Grandma back, but makes it possible to ease the pain and send a message.

When it's an award low enough it's being covered by insurance, the message being sent is "we don't farking care and we'd do it again"


I dunno.  The insurance company might cover the payout, but they are probably not happy about it.  They very likely will raise Charter's rates or just drop them as a client.
 
wildcardjack
2023-01-31 4:46:20 PM  
Well, after they submitted forged documents, anyone get disbarred?
 
astelmaszek
2023-01-31 4:49:44 PM  
Next of course the fark crowd will be complaining about their insurance premiums going up and they will as each and every one of these ridiculous verdicts comes out of our pockets. The poor lady in question was 83, I wonder how they arrived at $69 million in compensatory judgements.
 
Begoggle
2023-01-31 4:51:43 PM  

studebaker hoch: I would take the 262 million farking dollars and run.

It's plenty. I could never spend it all.


After all the fees and taxes, it ends up being $32 that you would owe.
Good deal.
 
bighairyguy [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 4:54:02 PM  
Shouldn't cost them anything?  Insurance shouldn't be allowed to cover punitive damages, it takes away the punitive pain.
 
Begoggle
2023-01-31 4:57:33 PM  

bighairyguy: Shouldn't cost them anything?  Insurance shouldn't be allowed to cover punitive damages, it takes away the punitive pain.


Companies shouldn't pay anything either.
Executives should.
With prison time.
 
SanityIsAFullTimeJob
2023-01-31 4:58:27 PM  
From a linked article :

"The family's attorneys also said Charter "inexplicably ended its pre-employment screening program" after purchasing Time Warner Cable in 2016 and that Holden was hired "even though a cursory review of his previous employers would have revealed firings for forgery, falsifying documents and harassment of fellow employees.""

I don't think that's how cursory reviews of employment history work. As far as I know, at best the previous employer may confirm employment, but would not mention anything about reason for termination.
 
untoldforce
2023-01-31 5:00:05 PM  

tnpir: I practice in Dallas County and followed this case. The entire thing was complete horseshiat engineered by slimy plaintiff lawyers, a blitheringly incompetent judge (who is off the bench) and a total lack of understanding of the law. I for one cannot believe they settled this because the Texas Supreme Court would have absolutely thrown it out--a company cannot be held vicariously liable for the intentional torts of its employees except in very, VERY limited circumstances, and this wasn't it.


The company willingly forged documents to try to force the family to settle. That's the crux of the issue. When a gigantic corp doesn't have enough actual leverage, they manufacture it.

That's on top of their employee murdering their customer in her own home after ignoring warning signs.

Charter should have been forced to pay out the 7 billion, because companies forging documentation to take advantage of the family of a murder victim is unconscionable.
 
tnpir
2023-01-31 5:04:37 PM  

untoldforce: tnpir: I practice in Dallas County and followed this case. The entire thing was complete horseshiat engineered by slimy plaintiff lawyers, a blitheringly incompetent judge (who is off the bench) and a total lack of understanding of the law. I for one cannot believe they settled this because the Texas Supreme Court would have absolutely thrown it out--a company cannot be held vicariously liable for the intentional torts of its employees except in very, VERY limited circumstances, and this wasn't it.

The company willingly forged documents to try to force the family to settle. That's the crux of the issue. When a gigantic corp doesn't have enough actual leverage, they manufacture it.

That's on top of their employee murdering their customer in her own home after ignoring warning signs.

Charter should have been forced to pay out the 7 billion, because companies forging documentation to take advantage of the family of a murder victim is unconscionable.


The document forgery is a lowlife move, to be sure. It's also wholly irrelevant to the issue of whether or not an employer is vicariously liable for the intentional torts of their employees. The case never should have made it before a jury but the judge--who was appointed to complete a term from the previous judge who retired--was in WAY over his head and had no business on the bench.
 
talkyournonsense
2023-01-31 5:06:00 PM  

Begoggle: bighairyguy: Shouldn't cost them anything?  Insurance shouldn't be allowed to cover punitive damages, it takes away the punitive pain.

Companies shouldn't pay anything either.
Executives should.
With prison time.


I'm a huge advocate of lifting the veil.
You want management to follow laws and act ethically? Then they need to be accountable for their actions as the choice makers for the corporate entity just as a human entity is for their actions in the eyes of the law. Hell, if it was feasible I'd put the share holders in prison too.
 
steklo [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 5:08:42 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
alltim
2023-01-31 5:09:48 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
The Brains
2023-01-31 5:14:17 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: That's 262 mill. to much.


Name checks out
 
Gordon Bennett [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-31 5:18:06 PM  

El_Dan: $87 million in actual damages? Was the elderly victim earning eight figures or something?


She was a living, breathing, thinking, feeling, alive human being. I find it a bit disturbing that you determine the value of that to be based upon her financial income.
 
Gaythiest Elitist [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 5:22:31 PM  

wildcardjack: Well, after they submitted forged documents, anyone get disbarred?


Not if their bar dues was paid.
 
waxbeans [TotalFark]
2023-01-31 5:25:07 PM  

kokomo61: It's the smart thing to settle - the family will get a $262M (or more likely, 150M or so once contingency fees are deducted). Doesn't bring Grandma back, but makes it possible to ease the pain and send a message.


😆 they will get 1/3rd.
 
John Dillerman
2023-01-31 5:25:10 PM  

Someone Else's Alt: Erma Gerdd: But did he fix the cable?
[nestflix.fun image 850x566]

So almost boobies.

Fark, you are slacking.


Still good for a filter-pwn
 
Fark_Guy_Rob
2023-01-31 5:25:11 PM  

Gordon Bennett: El_Dan: $87 million in actual damages? Was the elderly victim earning eight figures or something?

She was a living, breathing, thinking, feeling, alive human being. I find it a bit disturbing that you determine the value of that to be based upon her financial income.


I mean, it's as reasonable a measure as anything else.... What would you recommend instead?
 
studebaker hoch
2023-01-31 5:28:24 PM  

Begoggle: studebaker hoch: I would take the 262 million farking dollars and run.

It's plenty. I could never spend it all.

After all the fees and taxes, it ends up being $32 that you would owe.
Good deal.


Taking the lump sum payout cuts it in half.  Taxes eat another half, OK fine.

You are left with the paltry sum of only about 65 million dollars, free and clear. 

/Which I would take, and run.
 
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