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(Gizmodo)   Who is happy with the Federal Grazing Program? A) Environmentalists, B) Ranchers, C) Public employees, D) Cows, or E) None of the above   (gizmodo.com) divider line
59
    More: Fail, Agriculture, Drought, Wildfire, Biodiversity, Grazing, Animal, Ecosystem, Atmosphere  
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1963 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jan 2023 at 11:26 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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NM Volunteer [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 9:43:51 AM  
I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.  The only beef I can afford is that pink slime stuff from fast food places.
 
tyyreaunn
2023-01-29 11:31:14 AM  
That's how you know it's a good compromise: no one's happy.
 
buravirgil
2023-01-29 11:32:27 AM  
Always C, no? Subby Farkied. (I don't Farkie)
 
Don't Troll Me Bro!
2023-01-29 11:34:03 AM  

tyyreaunn: That's how you know it's a good compromise: no one's happy.


That is one of the most bulls__t lines I've ever heard, and yet somehow won't die. Nobody agrees to something they can walk away from unless entering the agreement is viewed as a net gain for them.
 
6655321
2023-01-29 11:34:45 AM  
George Santos
 
PvtStash
2023-01-29 11:35:58 AM  
uhhh yeah this is deportment of duh here.
Some of those groups basically have their own zero sum mutually exclusive goals to each other.
And the people forced to implement what falls out of that can't help but know it all useless bs, because no one had same page goals to debate implementations. They all had their own personal goals that wind up as zero sum outcomes to other people's goals.

In other words, only a fool believed those people belonged to the same culture or civilization. Their behavior and ideologies are obliviously not the same. And as their goals are mutually exclusive/zero sum to each other, that makes them mechanically, adversarial.
If they don't at least have general same end goals to work on thereto, and amogn the goals  when sucess outcomes for one must mean failure outcomes for others.
You are adversaries, you can't really be working cooporitvely together for anything here.
 
Fonaibung
2023-01-29 11:36:51 AM  
That one guy who looked like he got kicked in the face is happy, isn't he? Cliven Bundy or whatever.
 
pastramithemosterotic
2023-01-29 11:40:09 AM  
So you're speaking for the cows now, subby?
 
Unda
2023-01-29 11:41:27 AM  

NM Volunteer: I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.  The only beef I can afford is that pink slime stuff from fast food places.


The ranchers are getting ripped off by the meatpackers just as badly as consumers are.

substackcdn.comView Full Size
 
farkitallletitend
2023-01-29 11:42:47 AM  
Lab grown beef. Problem solved.
 
edmo [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 11:43:46 AM  
Who is happy with the Federal Grazing Program?

A) Environmentalists - too much grazing, another giveaway
B) Ranchers: not enough grazing, to expensive
C) Public employees - I wanted to be a forest ranger
D) Cows - What is this crap, we can't even
 
Unda
2023-01-29 11:43:57 AM  

NM Volunteer: I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.


The article that came from, with some discussion of how the market is structured: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/economists-to-cattle-ranchers-stop

NM Volunteer: The only beef I can afford is that pink slime stuff from fast food places.

We praise Native Americans for using every part of the cow; yet we demonize McDonalds for doing the same.
 
Yellow Beard
2023-01-29 11:46:43 AM  
I learned about ranchers leasing public land on a elk and mule deer hunt in Wyoming back in 2010. They put up gates and act like they own that land. I literally peed on every single gate lock I saw. Childish I know but there it is.
 
buravirgil
2023-01-29 11:48:24 AM  

pastramithemosterotic: So you're speaking for the cows now, subby?


MOOt point
 
NM Volunteer [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 11:50:16 AM  

Unda: NM Volunteer: I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.

The article that came from, with some discussion of how the market is structured: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/economists-to-cattle-ranchers-stop


That's how it is increasingly becoming in the USA in many industries.  Monopolies driving out small competitors, and then raising the prices because who else will you buy from?
 
buravirgil
2023-01-29 11:50:26 AM  

farkitallletitend: Lab grown beef. Problem solved.


Only after the collapse of "civilization" behind walls and citadels.
 
Some Junkie Cosmonaut [BareFark]
2023-01-29 11:51:14 AM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: tyyreaunn: That's how you know it's a good compromise: no one's happy.

That is one of the most bulls__t lines I've ever heard, and yet somehow won't die. Nobody agrees to something they can walk away from unless entering the agreement is viewed as a net gain for them.


Don't troll us bro.  The phrase means no one is happy - as in no one is all "We got everything we win woo!"  Everyone gets some things, everyone loses on some other things - no one is 100% happy but no one is 100% screwed either.  This is why what Tyrre said has been the way to do it since we first started organizing in groups.  The converse is important too - you do it right no one is ultra-farked either
 
olorin604
2023-01-29 11:51:52 AM  

Unda: NM Volunteer: I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.

The article that came from, with some discussion of how the market is structured: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/economists-to-cattle-ranchers-stop

NM Volunteer: The only beef I can afford is that pink slime stuff from fast food places.

We praise Native Americans for using every part of the cow; yet we demonize McDonalds for doing the same.


I don't, I loved those pink slime nuggets, they were delicious now they are touting the quality of their nuggets and the actual nugget isn't nearly as good.
 
Gough
2023-01-29 11:52:46 AM  

Fonaibung: That one guy who looked like he got kicked in the face is happy, isn't he? Cliven Bundy or whatever.


Ryan Bundy... .
 
beakerxf
2023-01-29 11:52:53 AM  
I lived on open range in Nevada growing up (The Bundy's ranched their cattle in Nevada). Their is so much public land in Nevada that it should be able to support enough cattle to feed the world, but there is an settler introduced invasive weed that completely took over called cheat grass that has taken over. It's called "cheat" because settlers thought that since it looked like a mini wheat plant it'd be a good food source, but in reality it provides very few calories. I've often wondered why BLM didn't try to introduce a different species of plant on grazing lands to compete with cheat grass. Tumbleweeds (native to area) when green are good for herbivores. Or native wild flowers. Anything is better than cheat grass.
 
Hinged
2023-01-29 11:52:57 AM  
Texas has a cattle grazing program.

It's not 'public lands' so much as just opening up your acreageto neighbors, and there's money in it.


It works well for everybody.


/federal government not needed in most cases
 
pastramithemosterotic
2023-01-29 11:54:14 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
ranchguy
2023-01-29 11:55:39 AM  
Extremely biased article.

Sure get rid of cows. Tell me how that works out.

Methane numbers are from feaking feed lots- there is the problem. As pointed out above the meat packers also get a huge cut. So common in the food markets.

I personally have been onsite when Mexican farmers have been negotiating with Nogales, Arizona US wholesalers. At best, they get 9 cents on each retail dollar. At worst, their third of four break even crop finds no buyer and they go bust.

Food wholesaling is just viscous and not for faint of heart.
 
Monumenticus
2023-01-29 11:58:26 AM  
Not listed: the hikers, mountain bikers, and backpackers who don't even bother with these "public" lands because all the cow poop.
 
mistahtom
2023-01-29 11:58:41 AM  

Unda: NM Volunteer: I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.

The article that came from, with some discussion of how the market is structured: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/economists-to-cattle-ranchers-stop

NM Volunteer: The only beef I can afford is that pink slime stuff from fast food places.

We praise Native Americans for using every part of the cow; yet we demonize McDonalds for doing the same.


Have you ever heard of a CAFO?
 
mistahtom
2023-01-29 12:01:00 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


McDonalds isn't food
 
Sexy Jesus
2023-01-29 12:05:07 PM  
Fark the meatpacking industry.  It's the Health Insurance industry of food.
 
NM Volunteer [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 12:05:50 PM  

mistahtom: Unda: NM Volunteer: I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.

The article that came from, with some discussion of how the market is structured: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/economists-to-cattle-ranchers-stop

NM Volunteer: The only beef I can afford is that pink slime stuff from fast food places.

We praise Native Americans for using every part of the cow; yet we demonize McDonalds for doing the same.

Have you ever heard of a CAFO?


They have them next to refineries in the southeast corner, so that way people can't figure out if they're smelling a mega-dairy or industrial pollution.  Bonus points in that locals no longer have a sense of smell, so they don't notice the sulfur and ammonia and no longer get pollution headaches.
 
chitownmike
2023-01-29 12:06:31 PM  
If everyone is equally unhappy it's a good compromise
 
Kalyco Jack [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 12:07:02 PM  

mistahtom: [Fark user image image 425x489]

McDonalds isn't food

"An animal unit is the equivalent of 1,000 pounds of "live" animal weight."


Subby's mom!!!!
 
chitownmike
2023-01-29 12:07:52 PM  

tyyreaunn: That's how you know it's a good compromise: no one's happy.


I should scan the thread first
 
berylman [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 12:08:00 PM  
Gemmatimonadota? Also known as a unique aerobic methanotrophic bacteria that thrives on cow farts
 
Snort
2023-01-29 12:09:00 PM  
I raise and slaughter my own cattle.   Some people have backyard chickens, I have backyard waygu.  Neighbors love the free manure for their gardens.
 
NM Volunteer [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 12:09:15 PM  
And then people like me wonder if it is safe to eat local cheese and ice cream, since there are benzenes in the ground and oilfield solvents everywhere.
 
I May Be Crazy But...
2023-01-29 12:11:23 PM  

beakerxf: I lived on open range in Nevada growing up (The Bundy's ranched their cattle in Nevada). Their is so much public land in Nevada that it should be able to support enough cattle to feed the world, but there is an settler introduced invasive weed that completely took over called cheat grass that has taken over. It's called "cheat" because settlers thought that since it looked like a mini wheat plant it'd be a good food source, but in reality it provides very few calories. I've often wondered why BLM didn't try to introduce a different species of plant on grazing lands to compete with cheat grass. Tumbleweeds (native to area) when green are good for herbivores. Or native wild flowers. Anything is better than cheat grass.


There's a native tumbleweed?
 
Jeff5
2023-01-29 12:13:05 PM  

beakerxf: I lived on open range in Nevada growing up (The Bundy's ranched their cattle in Nevada). Their is so much public land in Nevada that it should be able to support enough cattle to feed the world, but there is an settler introduced invasive weed that completely took over called cheat grass that has taken over. It's called "cheat" because settlers thought that since it looked like a mini wheat plant it'd be a good food source, but in reality it provides very few calories. I've often wondered why BLM didn't try to introduce a different species of plant on grazing lands to compete with cheat grass. Tumbleweeds (native to area) when green are good for herbivores. Or native wild flowers. Anything is better than cheat grass.


Tumbleweeds, though ubiquitous, aren't native, they're Russian thistle.

The simple solution is to remove all cattle from public lands and let the deer, elk, pronghorn and buffalo herds grow. Declare an end date when the cattle must be gone and open "slow elk" season the next day, no bag limit but you must use what you kill.
 
Bonzo_1116
2023-01-29 12:19:45 PM  

Yellow Beard: I learned about ranchers leasing public land on a elk and mule deer hunt in Wyoming back in 2010. They put up gates and act like they own that land. I literally peed on every single gate lock I saw. Childish I know but there it is.


The fact that the leases/permits are 1/15th the price of a lease on private land tells you everything you need to know.

And some of those "ranchers" don6even pay the nominal fee, they just run their herds where they want.

Thanks, Bundy Klan.
 
Jeebus Saves
2023-01-29 12:20:43 PM  

Snort: I raise and slaughter my own cattle.   Some people have backyard chickens, I have backyard waygu.  Neighbors love the free manure for their gardens.


We need to get back to that kind of living on a lot of levels.  Not to sound like a dirty hippie, but when it comes to food, grow it local and trade with neighbors.  People who grow and raise things usually have more than they need of certain things.  There's a lot of government land that is just kind of wasted on a local level that can be turned into a community garden.  We don't need to be trucking in mountains of food that end up being thrown away at the grocery store.
 
mrparks
2023-01-29 12:22:04 PM  
Why would various groups who don't agree on anything be happy simultaneously?

They're not sitting down at a circle jerk.
 
Jeebus Saves
2023-01-29 12:27:08 PM  

mrparks: Why would various groups who don't agree on anything be happy simultaneously?

They're not sitting down at a circle jerk.


Isn't that the way the pol tab works?
 
Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs
2023-01-29 12:27:58 PM  

chitownmike: If everyone is equally unhappy it's a good compromise


I want to eat all 4 of your children. You don't want me to eat any of your children. Letting me eat 2 of your children makes everyone unhappy so it must be a good compromise?

Compromise only works when everyone goes in with realistic expectations about what they are due. The welfare ranchers have an undue sense of entitlement which leads to starting the negotiations with unrealistic demands. Even trying to raise the grazing fees to cover the costs of running the program is seen as a personal affront. There's reason to take them seriously.
 
iaazathot
2023-01-29 12:34:14 PM  
The cattle culture, while romanticized so often, is really pretty toxic a lot of the time. For a lot of them, they wouldn't mind if every one and everything was banned from the land as far as they could manage. It's not sustainable, and  have yet to meet a large scale cattle person who wasn't a complete and total toxic piece of shiat. In my area you have the continued culture from the Johnson County war, which saw some of the most evils sons of biatches ruin a place as you could imagine. Attitudes still linger today just as toxic as back then.

Smaller scale folks not as much, but their outlooks are colored by a lot of negativity.

That being said, as others have pointed out, wholesalers and meatpackers have completely jacked up the market. It's not an easy life for the small to medium sized producers. 

The issue, as usual, is a ridiculous concept that profit and growth are infinite, based on inexhaustible resources. Some inroads have been made in terms of sustainability, but those tend to be smaller, niche operators and not the big outfits that can keep using their money to stave off reality at the cost of collapse down the line (driven by the toxic culture).
 
The Irresponsible Captain [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 12:34:46 PM  

pastramithemosterotic: So you're speaking for the cows now, subby?


For all the cows.

Foo Fighters - For All The Cows
Youtube uXg5bNXmY0k
 
Al Tsheimers
2023-01-29 12:43:22 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: tyyreaunn: That's how you know it's a good compromise: no one's happy.

That is one of the most bulls__t lines I've ever heard, and yet somehow won't die. Nobody agrees to something they can walk away from unless entering the agreement is viewed as a net gain for them.


It just means that no one got everything that they wanted. It doesn't have to be a zero sum game. A good compromise can be a net gain for all parties.
 
TenJed_77 [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 12:46:52 PM  

Unda: NM Volunteer: I'll feel sorry for ranchers on public lands when they price beef low enough for me to afford it at the grocery store.

The article that came from, with some discussion of how the market is structured: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/economists-to-cattle-ranchers-stop

NM Volunteer: The only beef I can afford is that pink slime stuff from fast food places.

We praise Native Americans for using every part of the cow; yet we demonize McDonalds for doing the same.


Raised on a farm, the article is crap. Beef and cattle prices or pork and hog prices never go up and down in tandem. I've not only farmed it, raised it, and sold but have also worked for processing plant. Market says lean hog prices are 0.76¢ a pound you won't get that. Your hog that weighs and average 265lbs should bring around $200, you'll be lucky to get $100-$140 from the processing plant. If you're lucky.
 
austerity101 [BareFark]
2023-01-29 12:48:32 PM  
DISHONOR ON YOUR COW
 
gunther_bumpass
2023-01-29 12:52:44 PM  

PvtStash: uhhh yeah this is deportment of duh here.
Some of those groups basically have their own zero sum mutually exclusive goals to each other.
And the people forced to implement what falls out of that can't help but know it all useless bs, because no one had same page goals to debate implementations. They all had their own personal goals that wind up as zero sum outcomes to other people's goals.

In other words, only a fool believed those people belonged to the same culture or civilization. Their behavior and ideologies are obliviously not the same. And as their goals are mutually exclusive/zero sum to each other, that makes them mechanically, adversarial.
If they don't at least have general same end goals to work on thereto, and amogn the goals  when sucess outcomes for one must mean failure outcomes for others.
You are adversaries, you can't really be working cooporitvely together for anything here.


Holy shiat was that a word salad.

Funny that I have you farkied as a guy who insists on using both armrests when he's not in the middle seat.
 
NM Volunteer [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 1:11:05 PM  

gunther_bumpass: PvtStash: uhhh yeah this is deportment of duh here.
Some of those groups basically have their own zero sum mutually exclusive goals to each other.
And the people forced to implement what falls out of that can't help but know it all useless bs, because no one had same page goals to debate implementations. They all had their own personal goals that wind up as zero sum outcomes to other people's goals.

In other words, only a fool believed those people belonged to the same culture or civilization. Their behavior and ideologies are obliviously not the same. And as their goals are mutually exclusive/zero sum to each other, that makes them mechanically, adversarial.
If they don't at least have general same end goals to work on thereto, and amogn the goals  when sucess outcomes for one must mean failure outcomes for others.
You are adversaries, you can't really be working cooporitvely together for anything here.

Holy shiat was that a word salad.

Funny that I have you farkied as a guy who insists on using both armrests when he's not in the middle seat.


Must be that Char GPT that the news has been talking about lately.
 
PvtStash
2023-01-29 1:16:42 PM  

gunther_bumpass: PvtStash: uhhh yeah this is deportment of duh here.
Some of those groups basically have their own zero sum mutually exclusive goals to each other.
And the people forced to implement what falls out of that can't help but know it all useless bs, because no one had same page goals to debate implementations. They all had their own personal goals that wind up as zero sum outcomes to other people's goals.

In other words, only a fool believed those people belonged to the same culture or civilization. Their behavior and ideologies are obliviously not the same. And as their goals are mutually exclusive/zero sum to each other, that makes them mechanically, adversarial.
If they don't at least have general same end goals to work on thereto, and amogn the goals  when sucess outcomes for one must mean failure outcomes for others.
You are adversaries, you can't really be working cooporitvely together for anything here.

Holy shiat was that a word salad.

Funny that I have you farkied as a guy who insists on using both armrests when he's not in the middle seat.


not in a million. your example is exactly what i speak of.

how come everyone cant have their own arm rest?

Is that there is no way we could do this at all if they did have 2 arm rests per seat?
Or is just that a small fraction of the people will get to stuff more in their private pockets for all the unpleasant situation  they forced on so many other people for it?


A civilization cannot have members who have mutually exclusive goals for what that group exists to accomplish.
Are we symbiotic with each other or parasitic?
Don't take a lot of observations to ID parasite behavior.

I am always in the middle seat if the row is full. My honey insist on a isle to go pee every 15-20 min. So that's just my lot in this symbiotic group relationship, and it's way easy to do so cause the value of being in the group i am is way out past it.
 
Fonaibung
2023-01-29 1:38:35 PM  

Gough: Fonaibung: That one guy who looked like he got kicked in the face is happy, isn't he? Cliven Bundy or whatever.

Ryan Bundy... .


That's the one.

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