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(Uproxx)   Human subcultures are nested fractally. There's no bottom   (uproxx.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Quiz, Quiz bowl, Podcast, Entertainment, Reality, World Cup, Facebook, Yogesh Raut  
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2038 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 29 Jan 2023 at 5:50 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2023-01-28 10:46:46 PM  
Apparently, I've lived a long and fruitful life despite a nearly total lack of appreciation for The One True Way of Quizzing. I will continue to do so.
 
2023-01-29 1:29:33 AM  
It's turdles all the way down.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 1:53:46 AM  

studebaker hoch: It's turdles all the way down.


You saw a turdles?
 
2023-01-29 2:00:13 AM  
"Quizzing culture."

Okaaaaaay...
 
433 [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 2:03:10 AM  
People just blurt shiat out on the internet now, there should be licenses to be taken seriously.
 
2023-01-29 5:56:55 AM  
....has he considered checking out reddit?
 
2023-01-29 6:00:25 AM  
What is something I don't give a rat's ass about for $1000, Alex?  IT'S THE DAILY DOUBLE!
 
2023-01-29 6:04:19 AM  
Someone cares deeply about the daily double.
 
2023-01-29 6:05:30 AM  
He better watch himself or he'll be reduced to doing underground quiz shows in Mexico. That's a good way to lose an eye, a hand, or possibly both.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-01-29 6:21:16 AM  
Nested Fractally is the name of my nerdcore metal band.

/our first album is That's Not Real Metal
 
2023-01-29 6:35:41 AM  
farking nerd.
 
2023-01-29 7:14:47 AM  

Conservative Evangelical Millennial Cyclist: He better watch himself or he'll be reduced to doing underground quiz shows in Mexico. That's a good way to lose an eye, a hand, or possibly both.

[Fark user image 425x239]


StreetCountdown
Youtube 0-GRjNocLs8


/Also, sorry.
 
2023-01-29 7:15:59 AM  
Are we sure that's not just George Santos in brownface?
 
2023-01-29 7:16:14 AM  
In the uk jeopardy would be considered a fairly easy show, we did have a uk version for a while, it tanked in the ratings. But then we have some of the most stupidly hard quiz shows around. I'm happy if I can get any right at all when I'm watching stuff like Mastermind and Only Connect.

I've worked on trivia games for mobile, and we always got far more uk players than us ones. Something about the uk makes us really like knowing everything and making sure as many people as possible know that. Can't think what that might be.
 
2023-01-29 7:43:42 AM  
FTFA: "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told Buzzfeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

You heard it here first. Don't follow your passions, otherwise you'll get labeled by society and nobody wants that. So might as well quit and disappoint yourself now and be done with it.
 
2023-01-29 7:50:35 AM  

Veloram: FTFA: "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told Buzzfeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

You heard it here first. Don't follow your passions, otherwise you'll get labeled by society and nobody wants that. So might as well quit and disappoint yourself now and be done with it.


Or, maybe learn all the facts and trivia that make you good at game shows etc and also learn some social skills at the same time.  Then you won't be called a know it all or freak because you will know when it is appropriate to bring out your giant trove of trivia and when to just hold a conversation.
 
2023-01-29 7:54:17 AM  
Let them fight
 
2023-01-29 7:54:32 AM  

wingedkat: Veloram: FTFA: "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told Buzzfeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

You heard it here first. Don't follow your passions, otherwise you'll get labeled by society and nobody wants that. So might as well quit and disappoint yourself now and be done with it.

Or, maybe learn all the facts and trivia that make you good at game shows etc and also learn some social skills at the same time.  Then you won't be called a know it all or freak because you will know when it is appropriate to bring out your giant trove of trivia and when to just hold a conversation.


What he says: "Kill the light that burns inside you"
What you hear: "Grab some social skills"
 
2023-01-29 8:29:10 AM  

Veloram: wingedkat: Veloram: FTFA: "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told Buzzfeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

You heard it here first. Don't follow your passions, otherwise you'll get labeled by society and nobody wants that. So might as well quit and disappoint yourself now and be done with it.

Or, maybe learn all the facts and trivia that make you good at game shows etc and also learn some social skills at the same time.  Then you won't be called a know it all or freak because you will know when it is appropriate to bring out your giant trove of trivia and when to just hold a conversation.

What he says: "Kill the light that burns inside you"
What you hear: "Grab some social skills"


As a committed introvert
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-01-29 9:18:09 AM  

Conservative Evangelical Millennial Cyclist: He better watch himself or he'll be reduced to doing underground quiz shows in Mexico. That's a good way to lose an eye, a hand, or possibly both.

[Fark user image image 425x239]


I was going to be very upset if I clicked on this thread and didn't see Billy
 
2023-01-29 9:20:45 AM  
Ill take things children say when they can't stand losing for 200 Ken
 
2023-01-29 10:14:35 AM  

Cyrene Valantion: In the uk jeopardy would be considered a fairly easy show, we did have a uk version for a while, it tanked in the ratings. But then we have some of the most stupidly hard quiz shows around. I'm happy if I can get any right at all when I'm watching stuff like Mastermind and Only Connect.

I've worked on trivia games for mobile, and we always got far more uk players than us ones. Something about the uk makes us really like knowing everything and making sure as many people as possible know that. Can't think what that might be.


Our Jeopardy feels like a middle-ground show. There are a few truly challenging categories each day, but in any given week someone watching from home can sweep a category or two (depending on their own personal interests). So it has extremely broad appeal to keep millions of viewers instead of catering to the subsubsubsubsubsubsubculture the guy in TFA apparently represents. Also, did he go on the show without ever watching an episode? What was he expecting?

The most difficult quiz show I remember being televised in the US was Win Ben Stein's Money. It had the toughest questions out of anything I had personally watched, and the maximum reward was only $5,000.

The reason it stood out to me was that it aired the same year as our version of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, where just about anyone could make it well past the $32,000 mark. And even the million-dollar question rarely felt more difficult than anything on Stein's show.
 
2023-01-29 11:01:34 AM  
Tops inconsolable.
 
2023-01-29 11:10:14 AM  

433: People just blurt shiat out on the internet now, there should be licenses to be taken seriously.


Or maybe we just accept people are going to say stupid shiate on the internet, and not get upset over trivial things like comments about tv gameshows?

Just throwing that out there.
 
2023-01-29 11:25:23 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: 433: People just blurt shiat out on the internet now, there should be licenses to be taken seriously.

Or maybe we just accept people are going to say stupid shiate on the internet, and not get upset over trivial things like comments about tv gameshows?

Just throwing that out there.


Probably. What's weird about the internet is how you can end up in weird tiny bubbles (like the guy in TFA) and think that bubble is much, much bigger than it really is.

He seems like the kind of guy who would start a conversation with a total stranger about his chosen hobby three or four levels deeper than the average person has ever encountered in their life. And be confused and frustrated that the stranger has no idea what he's talking about.
 
2023-01-29 11:35:18 AM  
"Quizzing culture" started with game shows, on radio and TV.  You think people were sitting around 19th-century parlor rooms, questioning each other's knowledge of the Hundred Years' War for fun?  Hell no.  But when broadcast media became A Thing, CBS and NBC figured out pretty quickly that "unscripted programming" was a hell of a lot cheaper than paying professionals.  And because neither Geritol nor the FCC would sign off on MILF Manor, they had to fall back on something simpler: questions, answers, and cash prizes.  It was only after the entertainment value of these competitions was established that people started holding them independently, without the need to shill Lucky Strikes after each round.

So, you know, show a little respect.
 
2023-01-29 12:01:51 PM  
LrdPhoenix: Veloram: wingedkat: Veloram: FTFA: "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told Buzzfeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

You heard it here first. Don't follow your passions, otherwise you'll get labeled by society and nobody wants that. So might as well quit and disappoint yourself now and be done with it.

Or, maybe learn all the facts and trivia that make you good at game shows etc and also learn some social skills at the same time.  Then you won't be called a know it all or freak because you will know when it is appropriate to bring out your giant trove of trivia and when to just hold a conversation.

What he says: "Kill the light that burns inside you"
What you hear: "Grab some social skills"

As a committed introvert
[Fark user image image 480x360]


My point was that being called a freak has more to do with social skills than knowing trivia. This guy's "know it all" problem is less about being good at trivia games and more about being inconsiderate and a bit of an asshole to other people.

I do think that most introverts should learn the basic rules of not being an asshole by reading the book of manners or gentleman's guides or taking a course in emotional intelligence. It makes life a lot easier for everyone, and just about everyone prefers an overly polite and well mannered oddball to an asshole.

Anyway, if the social skills are beyond you, you're going to be a freak no matter what.  You may as well follow your dream and get on the quiz show circuit.
 
2023-01-29 12:14:10 PM  
establishing himself as "belonging in the top tier of writers/editors/bloggers/podcasters in the quizzing community."

This is what we're doing now?  Gatekeeping the knowledge of random crap?  JFC.
 
2023-01-29 12:14:34 PM  

LrdPhoenix: Veloram: wingedkat: Veloram: FTFA: "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told Buzzfeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

You heard it here first. Don't follow your passions, otherwise you'll get labeled by society and nobody wants that. So might as well quit and disappoint yourself now and be done with it.

Or, maybe learn all the facts and trivia that make you good at game shows etc and also learn some social skills at the same time.  Then you won't be called a know it all or freak because you will know when it is appropriate to bring out your giant trove of trivia and when to just hold a conversation.

What he says: "Kill the light that burns inside you"
What you hear: "Grab some social skills"

As a committed introvert
[Fark user image image 480x360]


Yes, I know social skills are hard.

But there are rules, and they can be learned!

Classes and books on emotional intelligence and building and showing empathy helped me a lot.  I'm still weird and awkward, but I mostly know when to shut up and listen and I seem to get along with most people in casual conversation when I have to do it.

I also know a few people who decided to just adopt some of the the rules in books of etiquette in Emily post and some of the more modern gentleman's guides. They may seem like quirky oddballs with out-dated manners to some people, but it turns out being overly polite is generally greatly preferred to having no manners at all.

Anyway, if social skills are beyond someone, they're going to be a freak no matter what.  They may as well follow the dream and get on the quiz show circuit.  This guy probably wouldn't be better liked if he didn't have all that trivia in his head, because either way he's focused on himself and not other people. He
 
2023-01-29 12:16:49 PM  
wingedkat: LrdPhoenix: Veloram: wingedkat: Veloram: FTFA: "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told Buzzfeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

You heard it here first. Don't follow your passions, otherwise you'll get labeled by society and nobody wants that. So might as well quit and disappoint yourself now and be done with it.

Or, maybe learn all the facts and trivia that make you good at game shows etc and also learn some social skills at the same time.  Then you won't be called a know it all or freak because you will know when it is appropriate to bring out your giant trove of trivia and when to just hold a conversation.

What he says: "Kill the light that burns inside you"
What you hear: "Grab some social skills"

As a committed introvert
[Fark user image image 480x360]

Yes, I know social skills are hard.

But there are rules, and they can be learned!

Classes and books on emotional intelligence and building and showing empathy helped me a lot.  I'm still weird and awkward, but I mostly know when to shut up and listen and I seem to get along with most people in casual conversation when I have to do it.

I also know a few people who decided to just adopt some of the the rules in books of etiquette in Emily post and some of the more modern gentleman's guides. They may seem like quirky oddballs with out-dated manners to some people, but it turns out being overly polite is generally greatly preferred to having no manners at all.

Anyway, if social skills are beyond someone, they're going to be a freak no matter what.  They may as well follow the dream and get on the quiz show circuit.  This guy probably wouldn't be better liked if he didn't have all that trivia in his head, because either way he's focused on himself and not other people. He


Well, fark is being weird today.  Thought my Boobies didn't go through, and had to rewrite it.  Sorry about the double-post.
 
2023-01-29 12:34:12 PM  
Human subcultures are nested fractally. There's no bottom

Subbie, thank you for this quote. This is a conversation I've been having with a younger friend who's disappointed his particular community has this aspect. I've told him most people in various subcultures are supportive, but to watch out for the ones who are "You are doing something *I think* no one in our community should do so I'm going to point it out." Unfortunately while you may think it's a bug, for some people in subcultures, they think their gatekeeping is a feature. C'est la vie, or to quote Vonnegut, "So it goes".
 
2023-01-29 12:50:33 PM  
Poor man suffering from cranio-rectal inversion and severe gas at the same time.
 
2023-01-29 1:56:25 PM  

InfoFreako: establishing himself as "belonging in the top tier of writers/editors/bloggers/podcasters in the quizzing community."

This is what we're doing now?  Gatekeeping the knowledge of random crap?  JFC.


That has been happening in niche hobbies forever.

Most human behaviors can be described as inclusive or exclusive. Some people default to the exclusive behaviors about hobbies for all kinds of weird reasons (they're defensive about their weirdness, they think they are superior because of their hobby, whatever). It certainly happens in video games (console wars, PCs vs consoles), it happens in RPGS, board games, miniature games, card games... it happens in books, music (both listening and playing/performing), movies, shows, you name it. Some people are great ambassadors and recruiters for their chosen hobbies, and others are brutal gatekeepers.

This guy is *really* into quiz culture. I get that. But he had two choices:

A) "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told BuzzFeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

or

B) "I think I did well on Jeopardy because I have been involved in competitive quizzing for a long time. If someone isn't familiar with it--it is a lot of fun. It's both more challenging and more rewarding than Jeopardy. If anyone reading this is curious, I would recommend you check out _____ website, ____ book, or ____ activity and see if you enjoy it1'

Which of those two statements is more likely attract curious individuals into a new passion? Which is going to make someone say "wow, that sounds like a terrible hobby" and actively avoid it?
 
2023-01-29 2:00:41 PM  
He is correct. Jeopardy is a stupid person's idea of what a smart TV show is. Memorization by itself isn't impressive.
 
2023-01-29 2:06:49 PM  

clkeagle: InfoFreako: establishing himself as "belonging in the top tier of writers/editors/bloggers/podcasters in the quizzing community."

This is what we're doing now?  Gatekeeping the knowledge of random crap?  JFC.

That has been happening in niche hobbies forever.

Most human behaviors can be described as inclusive or exclusive. Some people default to the exclusive behaviors about hobbies for all kinds of weird reasons (they're defensive about their weirdness, they think they are superior because of their hobby, whatever). It certainly happens in video games (console wars, PCs vs consoles), it happens in RPGS, board games, miniature games, card games... it happens in books, music (both listening and playing/performing), movies, shows, you name it. Some people are great ambassadors and recruiters for their chosen hobbies, and others are brutal gatekeepers.

This guy is *really* into quiz culture. I get that. But he had two choices:

A) "We have to look the next generation of quizzers in the eyes and tell them, 'I know you want to learn everything that there is to know. But, for your own sake, please don't. It will only get you labeled a 'know-it-all.' You will be told that you're a freak, a product of genetic quirks rather than hard work and shining passion, or else a personality-less robot, and that label will be used to justify excluding you and marginalizing your voice," he told BuzzFeed, adding, "So, for your own good, kill the light that burns inside you."

or

B) "I think I did well on Jeopardy because I have been involved in competitive quizzing for a long time. If someone isn't familiar with it--it is a lot of fun. It's both more challenging and more rewarding than Jeopardy. If anyone reading this is curious, I would recommend you check out _____ website, ____ book, or ____ activity and see if you enjoy it1'

Which of those two statements is more likely attract curious individuals into a new passion? Which is going to make someone say "wow, that sounds like a ter ...


Yeah, I'm aware of the phenomenon.  It's why I don't participate in "communities" devoted to my interests.  I tend to do stuff alone because there's always - always - that farking guy.  I just didn't think it extended to trivia, which, by its very definition, is meaningless and unimportant.  Some people just live to suck the fun out of things, I guess.
 
Boe [OhFark]
2023-01-29 2:21:36 PM  

batlock666: Conservative Evangelical Millennial Cyclist: He better watch himself or he'll be reduced to doing underground quiz shows in Mexico. That's a good way to lose an eye, a hand, or possibly both.

[Fark user image 425x239]

[YouTube video: StreetCountdown]

/Also, sorry.


I love this so much
 
2023-01-29 2:46:48 PM  

I_am_lying: Human subcultures are nested fractally. There's no bottom

Subbie, thank you for this quote. This is a conversation I've been having with a younger friend who's disappointed his particular community has this aspect. I've told him most people in various subcultures are supportive, but to watch out for the ones who are "You are doing something *I think* no one in our community should do so I'm going to point it out." Unfortunately while you may think it's a bug, for some people in subcultures, they think their gatekeeping is a feature. C'est la vie, or to quote Vonnegut, "So it goes".


It's from xkcd:

imgs.xkcd.comView Full Size
 
433 [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 2:54:01 PM  

Copperbelly watersnake: 433: People just blurt shiat out on the internet now, there should be licenses to be taken seriously.

Or maybe we just accept people are going to say stupid shiate on the internet, and not get upset over trivial things like comments about tv gameshows?

Just throwing that out there.


Ok now I'm sure of the license idea.
 
2023-01-29 2:54:47 PM  

I_am_lying: Human subcultures are nested fractally. There's no bottom

Subbie, thank you for this quote. This is a conversation I've been having with a younger friend who's disappointed his particular community has this aspect. I've told him most people in various subcultures are supportive, but to watch out for the ones who are "You are doing something *I think* no one in our community should do so I'm going to point it out." Unfortunately while you may think it's a bug, for some people in subcultures, they think their gatekeeping is a feature. C'est la vie, or to quote Vonnegut, "So it goes".


As for gatekeeping:

I think a *little* gatekeeping is necessary otherwise your culture gets flooded with shiat, and then it goes to shiat. This is why people leave. Just don't be an arrogant, condescending prick about it.

Every culture has its "Eternal September" moment -- where, for whatever reason, it gets popular and goes mainstream, and a flood of newbies arrive who outnumber the old guard, and they change the culture, the etiquette, the norms and behavior into something it's not, quite possibly a complete bastardization/bowlderization of what it once was.

The good news is this is often temporary. Goths endured Twilight fandom for only a little while. The tourists and poseurs lost interest eventually.

I'm sure there are Farkers who can argue quite eloquently that this has happened to Fark. Many, many times over.
 
2023-01-29 3:18:42 PM  

germ78: Tops inconsolable.


You can improvise a top into a bottom by invoking the "fight for it" clause.
 
2023-01-29 3:38:17 PM  
Ishkur:

We're not allowed to talk about it, but yes it's happened before
 
2023-01-29 3:52:14 PM  
Credit where credit is due. He looks better now than when he played on Taxi.
 
2023-01-29 5:30:55 PM  

neilbradley: He is correct. Jeopardy is a stupid person's idea of what a smart TV show is. Memorization by itself isn't impressive.


I wouldn't go that far, but there's definitely an advantage to being good at the buzzer in addition to trivia and there are plenty of other kinds of smart.  I wonder how this guy would do on a show like Countdown that rewards a very different kind of smart.
 
2023-01-29 5:45:12 PM  

433: studebaker hoch: It's turdles all the way down.

You saw a turdles?


"Turdles. The snack that sucks."
 
2023-01-29 5:45:26 PM  
Who ever said being smart was a requirement for Jeopardy? Its a quiz show that rewards memorization, not critical thinking.
IT'S A GAME SHOW.
 
2023-01-29 7:21:09 PM  

12349876: I wouldn't go that far, but there's definitely an advantage to being good at the buzzer in addition to trivia and there are plenty of other kinds of smart.


Jeopardy is a game, so by definition there are a few other skills that are needed to be exceptionally good.

Trebek described Ken Jennings as not just being good at answering trivia questions, but good at "playing the game of Jeopardy." Knowing when to choose high-dollar over lower-tier questions, knowing how to hunt the Daily Doubles, knowing how to bet for Daily Doubles and Final... It makes a difference between just winning some money and actually having a good run as a champion.
 
2023-01-29 7:55:52 PM  

clkeagle: Trebek described Ken Jennings as not just being good at answering trivia questions, but good at "playing the game of Jeopardy." Knowing when to choose high-dollar over lower-tier questions, knowing how to hunt the Daily Doubles, knowing how to bet for Daily Doubles and Final... It makes a difference between just winning some money and actually having a good run as a champion.


But he still won on pure trivia. In the GOAT series, James' strategy of getting to the DDs didn't work (Brad kept finding them), and Brad was too slow on the buzzer. Ken beat them on sheer knowledge.
 
2023-01-29 9:08:36 PM  

12349876: neilbradley: He is correct. Jeopardy is a stupid person's idea of what a smart TV show is. Memorization by itself isn't impressive.

I wouldn't go that far, but there's definitely an advantage to being good at the buzzer in addition to trivia and there are plenty of other kinds of smart.  I wonder how this guy would do on a show like Countdown that rewards a very different kind of smart.


I have a friend who lost because of timing issues.

What sucks is that I was helping someone move, and didn't give a chance to help her with that before taking her to the airport (as I found the people who were moving had timing equipment)

... and she made a mistake on the math, moving her from second place ($2k) to ($1k), so she didn't even cover her travel from the east coast.  ... which was that I had planned to review with her.

/hasn't watched the episode
//so I don't accidentally mention anything from it in front of her
 
2023-01-29 10:24:49 PM  
Oh, and we've know for a while what the bottom is, at least on the geek side of things:

brunching.comView Full Size
 
2023-01-29 10:41:57 PM  

Oneiros: Oh, and we've know for a while what the bottom is, at least on the geek side of things:

[brunching.com image 850x493]


Put me down under Heinlen fans

/still waiting for a big budget s I go version of The moon is a harsh Mistress
 
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