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(VT Digger)   So uh, maybe you shouldn't be giving out bonuses higher than people's annual salary, Mr. Sheriff. Especially not 2,119% bonuses   (vtdigger.org) divider line
60
    More: Strange, Audit, Government, Tax, Salary, Election, Law, Business, entire department bonuses  
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3974 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Jan 2023 at 6:20 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Alphax
2023-01-29 6:22:47 AM  
Some idiots call taxes legalized theft.  Nope.  THIS is.
 
Capo Del Bandito
2023-01-29 6:30:45 AM  
Is there a way of keeping people in Michigan without giving them bonuses?
 
Aussie_As
2023-01-29 6:33:43 AM  
Every single article I ever seem to read about Sheriffs reminds me why it's incredibly stupid to elect police officers and I can't believe Americans keep falling for this uniquely American bullshiat. This couldn't happen anywhere else and perhaps it's time to start asking your elected politicians why it keeps happening where you are.

We have sheriffs who are court officers involved in serving summonses and such but they're not running police departments, it's unelected police who do that, with non-police politicians (eg Police Ministers) to whom police commissioners are answerable but do not make policing decisions beyond broad issues of resourcing police activity.
 
tembaarmswide [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 6:44:55 AM  

Alphax: Some idiots call taxes legalized theft.  Nope.  THIS is.


civil asset forfeiture plus this = money train for LEO!
 
shpritz
2023-01-29 6:49:08 AM  

Aussie_As: Every single article I ever seem to read about Sheriffs reminds me why it's incredibly stupid to elect police officers and I can't believe Americans keep falling for this uniquely American bullshiat.


 Same for prosecutors and judges.
 
Eunice's Social Calendar [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 6:49:29 AM  
The balances are on back order?
 
batlock666
2023-01-29 7:18:53 AM  
The Clash - Rock the Casbah (Official Video)
Youtube bJ9r8LMU9bQ
 
Knight without armor
2023-01-29 7:19:34 AM  

Capo Del Bandito: Is there a way of keeping people in Michigan without giving them bonuses?


There might be but this article is about Vermont.

Several of the salaries look low. Wonder if there is more to the background of this story. How could this happen in Vermontopia?
 
NathanAllen
2023-01-29 7:20:03 AM  
The journalist added that the bonuses also included the money to pay the taxes, not quite realizing that's actually impossible.

So here's $2,000 to cover the taxes on the bonus and another $400 to cover the money that the tax kicker adds go your taxes, and so on.

Also, how is this not looting the Government?
 
DrD'isInfotainment [OhFark]
2023-01-29 7:21:01 AM  
$400 grand!  In Vimaunt that's real money.
 
qorkfiend
2023-01-29 7:23:59 AM  

NathanAllen: The journalist added that the bonuses also included the money to pay the taxes, not quite realizing that's actually impossible.

So here's $2,000 to cover the taxes on the bonus and another $400 to cover the money that the tax kicker adds go your taxes, and so on.

Also, how is this not looting the Government?


If you want someone to have X amount after taxes it's pretty easy to calculate the necessary before tax amount
 
eKonk
2023-01-29 7:26:22 AM  

Aussie_As: Every single article I ever seem to read about Sheriffs reminds me why it's incredibly stupid to elect police officers and I can't believe Americans keep falling for this uniquely American bullshiat. This couldn't happen anywhere else and perhaps it's time to start asking your elected politicians why it keeps happening where you are.

We have sheriffs who are court officers involved in serving summonses and such but they're not running police departments, it's unelected police who do that, with non-police politicians (eg Police Ministers) to whom police commissioners are answerable but do not make policing decisions beyond broad issues of resourcing police activity.


Can't argue that - the Sheriff system in most of the US is pretty much bullshiat and is practically begging for corruption, which is why we hear about it so often.

It's not hopeless though - my state got rid of the Sheriff system a few decades ago due mostly to how corrupt they are (of course, it didn't hurt that our counties are pretty much meaningless other than as court districts, there are literally no county services provided in CT). They were replaced by State Marshals who primarily act as court officers, even though they technically are not. They do have the power to arrest, etc., but outside of serving warrants that is rarely used.

As far as normal law enforcement, we either have municipal police departments or the state police - both still have issues, of course, but none so rampant as the Sheriff system once had. I'm kind of surprised more states (particularly smaller states that don't have many unincorporated areas) haven't followed suit.
 
Veloram
2023-01-29 7:50:32 AM  
There are three types of bonuses:

1. The executive bonus, which all the bosses get give themselves and is pretty much guaranteed
2. The obligatory "holiday bonus", which comes in many different forms (and isn't always monetary), and
3. The performance bonus, which is basically a carrot on a stick. And if you meet the benchmarks, they'll change them for next quarter to make sure you can't do that again
 
Nullav
2023-01-29 7:53:59 AM  
"There was no violation per se," he said. "It's just an unusual event for bonuses of this magnitude and absence of policy. You have to wonder: Why were the amounts so high? And that's up to the sheriff."

In other words, fark everything.
 
WickerNipple [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 7:55:12 AM  
VT sheriffs are elected and get a small payment from the state to handle prisoner transfers, but otherwise all the powers and income they have come from contracts with local towns.

They're essentially mercenaries and private contractors and can do whatever they want with the money.
 
Vacation Bible School
2023-01-29 8:02:18 AM  
FTA: The bonuses, which ranged from $1,359 to $41,112 for 16 people, didn't violate any regulations. But that's because the sheriff's department doesn't have a bonus policy in place - despite a directive in the Vermont Sheriffs' Association Uniform Accounting Manual.

It's not expressly illegal so suck it libs!
 
I May Be Crazy But...
2023-01-29 8:05:25 AM  

NathanAllen: The journalist added that the bonuses also included the money to pay the taxes, not quite realizing that's actually impossible.

So here's $2,000 to cover the taxes on the bonus and another $400 to cover the money that the tax kicker adds go your taxes, and so on.

Also, how is this not looting the Government?


You can keep going until the difference is less than one penny and call that done.  Or you can use basic calculus.  1/(1-r) is what you're looking for.
 
Nullav
2023-01-29 8:11:45 AM  
There we go, post-coffee, still turnt about that. Slightly words this time:

The bonuses, which ranged from $1,359 to $41,112 for 16 people, didn't violate any regulations. But that's because the sheriff's department doesn't have a bonus policy in place - despite a directive in the Vermont Sheriffs' Association Uniform Accounting Manual.

When you only use guidelines to cover such obvious situations, you aren't being naive about human nature; you're encouraging people to do their worst. Either actually codify it or put your head in the sand again, because you're telling people to do this.
 
SomeAmerican
2023-01-29 8:12:30 AM  
Given that this is apparently completely legal, I wonder why he didn't go for something 100x higher.

It was a nice touch that he gave oversized bonuses to everyone, not just himself.
 
WickerNipple [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 8:22:55 AM  

SomeAmerican: Given that this is apparently completely legal, I wonder why he didn't go for something 100x higher.


He could have.  Typically in VT the sheriffs skim 5% off the top for themselves.  I'm sure he'd argue he was being generous for spreading the money around.
 
Basket Of Deplorables
2023-01-29 8:26:07 AM  

Knight without armor: Capo Del Bandito: Is there a way of keeping people in Michigan without giving them bonuses?

There might be but this article is about Vermont.

Several of the salaries look low. Wonder if there is more to the background of this story. How could this happen in Vermontopia?


This is par for the course in Vermont. In my hometown of 3000 people the police department hired 8 cops - 6 more than necessary - bought them all full cop kits including tasers that the town didn't know about until they blasted a 17 year old running form the cops breaking up a part in the woods and he fell and messed up his face and his parents sued the town. They then all bought themselves brand new $100,000 fully loaded cop SUVs on the town dime. They town had to suspend trash pickup after that one so now everyone has to drive their own garbage to the dump. The final straw came when they bought themselves a $500k "castle" without approval because "our station is too small and what would happen if we had a perp and a victim in the same room?" (Something that has never happened because they never solved any crimes). Finally the town voted to disband the police because they had used up 40% of the towns annual budget and now their entire job is done by one county sheriff. I'm assuming that most of these podunk PDs in Vermont are similar
 
WickerNipple [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 8:30:51 AM  

Basket Of Deplorables: I'm assuming that most of these podunk PDs in Vermont are similar


We just don't have one, and refuse to pay the Sheriff, so he never comes to town.  Makes life easier.
 
Aquapope
2023-01-29 8:34:18 AM  

Knight without armor: Capo Del Bandito: Is there a way of keeping people in Michigan without giving them bonuses?

There might be but this article is about Vermont.

Several of the salaries look low. Wonder if there is more to the background of this story. How could this happen in Vermontopia?


How can you tell the salaries are low without knowing the details of the jobs the salaries are for?
 
Iowan73
2023-01-29 8:59:35 AM  
Caledonia? Caledonia?
Your sheriff screwed you so hard!
 
OhioUGrad
2023-01-29 8:59:39 AM  

Capo Del Bandito: Is there a way of keeping people in Michigan without giving them bonuses?


Usually have them play tOSU.
 
Heraclitus
2023-01-29 9:00:30 AM  
Now lets see if they STAY bought off.
 
recondite cetacean
2023-01-29 9:15:31 AM  
Uh, 3 salaries were under 5k and the 2 million percent or whatever was 1k. Salary as in 1 year of work you get this.

And yes, the compounding tax is a problem. They were not solving for pennies.

Sounds like overtime pay to me, but yes it should be on the record. And the lack of a rule is the legislature's fault. Leaving it to a Sheriff policy is dumb.
 
I May Be Crazy But...
2023-01-29 9:23:10 AM  

recondite cetacean: And yes, the compounding tax is a problem. They were not solving for pennies.


Oh, for crying out loud.  No, it isn't.  The actual to folding it that uses compounding is basic calculus that any accountant should have seen.

It is also possible to write down N= G(1-r) what r is the overall tax rate, G is gross pay and N is the net
 
I May Be Crazy But...
2023-01-29 9:24:08 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: recondite cetacean: And yes, the compounding tax is a problem. They were not solving for pennies.

Oh, for crying out loud.  No, it isn't.  The actual to folding it that uses compounding is basic calculus that any accountant should have seen.

It is also possible to write down N= G(1-r) what r is the overall tax rate, G is gross pay and N is the net


What is hard is not hitting submit too early.

... and r is the tax rate, then it's basic algebra.
 
G. Tarrant [OhFark]
2023-01-29 9:27:54 AM  

recondite cetacean: Uh, 3 salaries were under 5k and the 2 million percent or whatever was 1k. Salary as in 1 year of work you get this.

And yes, the compounding tax is a problem. They were not solving for pennies.

Sounds like overtime pay to me, but yes it should be on the record. And the lack of a rule is the legislature's fault. Leaving it to a Sheriff policy is dumb.


Whenever someone gets a spot award at my company that is under $500, the company pays the tax on top of it so that the employee gets a check for the whole bonus amount (above $500 tax is withheld, which means an award of $501 is actually less money than $500, because at $500 an employee actually gets $650 or whatever when the company's tax grossup is accounted for). They do a pretty decent job of calculating it. I'm pretty sure any accounting and payroll software system can quickly calculate the right amount to pay someone based on their withholding and anticipated tax, and tax on the gross up, and tax on that gross up, etc. It's not hard, it's a limit that converges and is easily calculated.
 
Sabreace22 [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 9:29:43 AM  

Basket Of Deplorables: Knight without armor: Capo Del Bandito: Is there a way of keeping people in Michigan without giving them bonuses?

There might be but this article is about Vermont.

Several of the salaries look low. Wonder if there is more to the background of this story. How could this happen in Vermontopia?

This is par for the course in Vermont. In my hometown of 3000 people the police department hired 8 cops - 6 more than necessary - bought them all full cop kits including tasers that the town didn't know about until they blasted a 17 year old running form the cops breaking up a part in the woods and he fell and messed up his face and his parents sued the town. They then all bought themselves brand new $100,000 fully loaded cop SUVs on the town dime. They town had to suspend trash pickup after that one so now everyone has to drive their own garbage to the dump. The final straw came when they bought themselves a $500k "castle" without approval because "our station is too small and what would happen if we had a perp and a victim in the same room?" (Something that has never happened because they never solved any crimes). Finally the town voted to disband the police because they had used up 40% of the towns annual budget and now their entire job is done by one county sheriff. I'm assuming that most of these podunk PDs in Vermont are similar


Sounds like a story I've heard before:

I want tell you about the town of
Stockbridge, Massachusetts, where this happened here, they got three stop
Signs, two police officers, and one police car, but when we got to the
Scene of the Crime there was five police officers and three police cars,
Being the biggest crime of the last fifty years, and everybody wanted to
Get in the newspaper story about it. And they was using up all kinds of
Cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer's station.
They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and
They took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles
And arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
One was to be used as evidence against us. Took pictures of the approach,
The getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to
Mention the aerial photography.

/All for some littering
 
Sexy Jesus [recently expired TotalFark]
2023-01-29 9:33:11 AM  
The County Commissioner in Gilmer County, GA once sold off all their gravel, rip-rap, asphalt, lumber, salt, etc because he was mad at losing re-election. They couldn't touch him for it because of the way the rules were written so that Commissioners could do things for the county in their own name. Every gaping hole in every law, set of regulations and ordinances will be exploited by a Republican, it's their contribution to building a better society: showing us what a bad faith actor within the system might do.
 
macadamnut
2023-01-29 9:45:08 AM  
What, did you think it was about public safety or something?
 
WickerNipple [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 9:54:51 AM  

macadamnut: What, did you think it was about public safety or something?


No one here would think it had anything to do with public safety.

It's always funny when VT sheriff stuff comes up cause people assume they're police or doing public service or some such.  I assumed this too before I moved here.

Here they're just rent-a-cops who also transport prisoners.
 
The Four Ringer [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 9:55:10 AM  
My cousin lives right next door in Orleans county. I'll have to ask him if they do this where he is.
 
hissatsu [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 10:19:37 AM  
In some cases, the bonuses exceeded the employees' annual salaries, according to data released by the state auditor's office.

I think I'll be waiting for my standard 127.3% bonus for quite a while.
 
bo_loo
2023-01-29 10:27:28 AM  

Veloram: There are three types of bonuses:

1. The executive bonus, which all the bosses get give themselves and is pretty much guaranteed
2. The obligatory "holiday bonus", which comes in many different forms (and isn't always monetary), and
3. The performance bonus, which is basically a carrot on a stick. And if you meet the benchmarks, they'll change them for next quarter to make sure you can't do that again


My director called me recently and told me I was getting a $10,000 bonus.

"Holy turdballs!" I thought to myself.

Then she told me how it would work:
You don't get anything this year and then will get 1/3 for each of the following 3 years.

Carrot on a stick, indeed.
 
austerity101
2023-01-29 10:35:48 AM  

Aussie_As: Every single article I ever seem to read about Sheriffs reminds me why it's incredibly stupid to elect police officers and I can't believe Americans keep falling for this uniquely American bullshiat. This couldn't happen anywhere else and perhaps it's time to start asking your elected politicians why it keeps happening where you are.

We have sheriffs who are court officers involved in serving summonses and such but they're not running police departments, it's unelected police who do that, with non-police politicians (eg Police Ministers) to whom police commissioners are answerable but do not make policing decisions beyond broad issues of resourcing police activity.


Part of the problem, apparently, is that sheriffs are enshrined in a lot of state constitutions. So stopping the practice is nearly impossible.
 
qorkfiend
2023-01-29 10:45:17 AM  

bo_loo: Veloram: There are three types of bonuses:

1. The executive bonus, which all the bosses get give themselves and is pretty much guaranteed
2. The obligatory "holiday bonus", which comes in many different forms (and isn't always monetary), and
3. The performance bonus, which is basically a carrot on a stick. And if you meet the benchmarks, they'll change them for next quarter to make sure you can't do that again

My director called me recently and told me I was getting a $10,000 bonus.

"Holy turdballs!" I thought to myself.

Then she told me how it would work:
You don't get anything this year and then will get 1/3 for each of the following 3 years.

Carrot on a stick, indeed.


In fairness that is typically how retention bonuses work.
 
estrange666
2023-01-29 10:55:12 AM  
Not that it at all justifies an obvious theft, but those salaries are incredibly generous and sure to attract only the very best :p
 
jaylectricity [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 10:57:59 AM  
The auditing firm said that amounted to 2,119% of the person's gross salary of $1,122 last fiscal year.

Ummm...soooooo...why is their salary so low?
 
Turbo Cojones
2023-01-29 10:59:06 AM  

DrD'isInfotainment: $400 grand!  In Vimaunt that's real money.


Might be enough to keep the heat on in the winter.
 
farkitallletitend
2023-01-29 11:02:36 AM  
It's how government is setup. Spend your budget, create a deficit so you get more money the following year. No one does an audit because they're too busy spending their budget, creating a deficit so they get more money the following year. Doesn't matter where or how you spend it so long as you spend it lawfully. If anyone questions it you're good.
It's a giant circle jerk.
 
palelizard
2023-01-29 11:20:31 AM  

jaylectricity: The auditing firm said that amounted to 2,119% of the person's gross salary of $1,122 last fiscal year.

Ummm...soooooo...why is their salary so low?


For twenty-two bucks a week, the secretary's granny comes in and waters the plants on Saturdays.
 
Natalie Portmanteau
2023-01-29 11:24:42 AM  

NathanAllen: The journalist added that the bonuses also included the money to pay the taxes, not quite realizing that's actually impossible.

So here's $2,000 to cover the taxes on the bonus and another $400 to cover the money that the tax kicker adds go your taxes, and so on.

Also, how is this not looting the Government?


Eh, it's a thing. My company pays bonuses calculated so that after tax its a flat number. So, if your bonus is 1000.00 they give you a check for 1253.41 (or whatever)

They're not really paying the tax, but the alternative is to give you 1000.00 and let you pay the taxes out of that.
 
Natalie Portmanteau
2023-01-29 11:30:38 AM  

SomeAmerican: Given that this is apparently completely legal, I wonder why he didn't go for something 100x higher.

It was a nice touch that he gave oversized bonuses to everyone, not just himself.


I mean, if he was an oil company exec, we'd all be pleasantly surprised he bonused the staff.

And, the article made it sound like they had 800k in the budget at the end of the year and the sherif gave half of it as bonuses. I wish my company did that.

That doesn't make it right, mind you. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of police taking money from police, and I just don't get that upset about it. But it's a perfect example of the type of people who become sheriff.
 
edmo [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 11:52:57 AM  
Only a cop would think that since there is no specific rule against a thing, it's perfectly okay.

/well, maybe a politician
// or a preacher
///criminals
 
misanthropicsob [OhFark]
2023-01-29 12:14:20 PM  

recondite cetacean: Uh, 3 salaries were under 5k and the 2 million percent or whatever was 1k. Salary as in 1 year of work you get this.

And yes, the compounding tax is a problem. They were not solving for pennies.

Sounds like overtime pay to me, but yes it should be on the record. And the lack of a rule is the legislature's fault. Leaving it to a Sheriff policy is dumb.


Yeah, what is going on with the reported salaries??

Fark user imageView Full Size

What's even weirder is that Employee #16, who made $1.1k gross salary, must be a Very Big Deal because the taxes on his gross bonus was nearly 50%. Compare that to Employee #15 who only had to pay 26% in taxes. But, employee #3 had to pay over 50% in taxes.

Fark user imageView Full Size


There's something strange in these numbers.
 
Ketchuponsteak
2023-01-29 1:47:27 PM  

Aussie_As: Every single article I ever seem to read about Sheriffs reminds me why it's incredibly stupid to elect police officers and I can't believe Americans keep falling for this uniquely American bullshiat. This couldn't happen anywhere else and perhaps it's time to start asking your elected politicians why it keeps happening where you are.


Electing prosecutors and judges is equally moronic, and so is common law now that we're at it.

But I suspect you have the "judge decides the outcome, and then finds precedence to match afterwards" bullshiat in Australia as well, rather than civil law. ;)
 
Ketchuponsteak
2023-01-29 1:50:00 PM  

edmo: Only a cop would think that since there is no specific rule against a thing, it's perfectly okay.


He's not running for re-election (snicker, electing sheriffs...), so he doesn't care. But I wonder if any of the employees feels like repaying their bonuses.
 
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