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(Some Guy)   ATSC 3.0, the relatively new broadcast standard designed to improve reception and bring 4K video to over-the-air TV, may be in danger due to FCC inaction   (nexttv.com) divider line
44
    More: Obvious, Federal Communications Commission, ATSC standards, Television, Broadcasting, Terrestrial television, Want, Social group, Digital television  
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699 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Jan 2023 at 6:38 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



44 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
OhioUGrad
2023-01-28 6:52:34 PM  
Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.
 
Dinjiin [BareFark]
2023-01-28 7:13:41 PM  
Even today, very few 4K televisions include an ATSC 3 tuner.  There is one external tuner available and it is expensive.  So even if you want it, good luck getting it.

As mentioned in the boobies, it has all sorts of privacy issues because of the "return channel" functionality.  Stations can also embed HTML5 content.  So expect advert banners (static or animated video) and the like.  And it is a matter of time before someone sneaks malware into those ads.

Because it has taken so long to roll out, the standard is already outdated: the H.265/HECV video standard has been superseded by H.266/VCC.

Lastly, why does Korea and North America need their own 4K DTV standard?  Harmonize with the Europeans (DVB) or Japan and South America (ISDB).
 
TedCruz'sCrazyDad
2023-01-28 7:15:17 PM  
Do people still watch broadcast tv?
 
Intrepid00 [TotalFark]
2023-01-28 7:22:39 PM  

OhioUGrad: Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.


Targeted in that you probably see commercials for where you live not tracking. It's broadcast not a cellphone.

For example, I lived between DC and Baltimore and would see ads constantly for both cities that I didn't give two farks about but this standard might allow for targeted geo to give me ads for the business in the city I lived.
 
sirrerun
2023-01-28 8:25:39 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


Football
 
Billy Liar
2023-01-28 8:41:51 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


I do.
 
AmbassadorBooze
2023-01-28 8:43:31 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


Only the disgusting, filthy, inbred poors.
 
TheSubjunctive
2023-01-28 9:10:43 PM  

OhioUGrad: Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.


The 'wake up from idle' is one of the few bigger wins here, as more cities and counties decide to drop sirens for tornadoes, nuclear plants, civil defense, etc.  As long as they don't go as far as the AMBERs on phones, I'm okay with emergency alerts.

But, seriously, the overlap between people who watch rabbit ears and really care about 4K super-duper-def has to be pretty low.  The broadcasters have been perfectly happy to cut their main signal quality further and further to add yet another potato-vision 1Mbps QVC2 stream.  Maybe a switch to H265 will let them wedge 10 junk secondaries instead of 6 in their 6 MHz wedge, but the overall gains will be negligible.
 
Goimir
2023-01-28 9:47:58 PM  
And you'll need like clear line of sight to get a watchable signal?  Used to be you'd get a little snow with analog, but digital will out on you errors if the perfect.
 
neeNHA
2023-01-28 9:50:02 PM  

sirrerun: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?

Football


CW, decades, antenna, MeTV, H&I, grit, buzzr(for match game) and afv on abc
 
SalmonberryPie
2023-01-28 9:59:51 PM  
Buy it once, and you're done. Fark having 28 different streaming subscriptions, fark Comcast/Xfinity.

Channelmaster FTW!
external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size
 
uncoveror
2023-01-28 10:01:37 PM  
My TV recieves ATSC 3.0 and all the Cincinnati major TV stations say they transmit it. I have seen some vivid colors that may be High Dynamic Range, but no 4K, and the pop-ups on Channel 12 telling me to click right on my remove ofr more information are an annoyance I would like to turn off. Also, Channel 12 takes way too long to make a picture. A menu comes up first to look through their data casts if I want to, and I think this extra stuff is why I sometimes don't get a picture at all on that channel. I do not want datacasts or pop-up menus, but I would like some 4k video and Dolby Atmos sound. Give me that!
 
DesertCoyote [OhFark]
2023-01-28 10:04:05 PM  

Goimir: And you'll need like clear line of sight to get a watchable signal?  Used to be you'd get a little snow with analog, but digital will out on you errors if the perfect.


ATSC 3.0 is supposed to be easier to receive than the current digital TV system (ATSC 1.0, technically known as 8-VSB, which is very fragile).
 
Al Tsheimers
2023-01-28 10:06:28 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


I do, but it depends on your definition of "watch". I can get 62 channels. I can't stomach most of what is available. I will watch PBS, football on Sundays, occasional motor sports, reruns of Rockford Files or Columbo, and that's about it. Prime or YouTube for streaming.
 
Ketchuponsteak
2023-01-28 10:42:15 PM  

OhioUGrad: Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.


Why did you bold something to make it appear to say something else than it does?
 
Marcus Aurelius [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-28 10:50:48 PM  
The loss of broadcast television should be considered a public service.
 
Ketchuponsteak
2023-01-28 10:50:50 PM  
I know not everyone has access to decent internet, particularly in North America. But won't those without access to proper internet, also be the same people who won't be close enough to a broadcasting tower?

IMHO the internet has already made OTA broadcasting obsolete, or at least ought to have done so.
 
MBZ321
2023-01-28 10:53:56 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: I know not everyone has access to decent internet, particularly in North America. But won't those without access to proper internet, also be the same people who won't be close enough to a broadcasting tower?

IMHO the internet has already made OTA broadcasting obsolete, or at least ought to have done so.


It should have, but the big media conglomerates and their regional operators fight hard against it. RIP Locast...still pissed they got that shut down.
 
Goimir
2023-01-28 10:59:40 PM  

DesertCoyote: Goimir: And you'll need like clear line of sight to get a watchable signal?  Used to be you'd get a little snow with analog, but digital will out on you errors if the perfect.

ATSC 3.0 is supposed to be easier to receive than the current digital TV system (ATSC 1.0, technically known as 8-VSB, which is very fragile).


Good.  I live in solid "rabbit ears" territory and can't get a decent signal despite being able to see the tower from the window the tv sits in front of.

/and I'm a mile away and 50% of the market is in a 90 degree arc behind me, in that line of sight.
//I just doxxed myself.   Come by next weekend for a beer.
///Park in the alley behind my car or the pickup
 
Goimir
2023-01-28 11:01:00 PM  

MBZ321: Ketchuponsteak: I know not everyone has access to decent internet, particularly in North America. But won't those without access to proper internet, also be the same people who won't be close enough to a broadcasting tower?

IMHO the internet has already made OTA broadcasting obsolete, or at least ought to have done so.

It should have, but the big media conglomerates and their regional operators fight hard against it. RIP Locast...still pissed they got that shut down.


Football is easier to watch OTA than streaming.
 
clkeagle [BareFark]
2023-01-28 11:58:47 PM  

sirrerun: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?

Football


Yep. The less-compressed 720p or 1080i broadcast signal usually looks much better than the overly-compressed 1080p or 4k stream Hulu sends me. And I have pretty darn good home internet bandwidth.
 
NewWorldDan
2023-01-29 12:02:08 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: I know not everyone has access to decent internet, particularly in North America. But won't those without access to proper internet, also be the same people who won't be close enough to a broadcasting tower?

IMHO the internet has already made OTA broadcasting obsolete, or at least ought to have done so.


Well, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. An OTA broadcast can push out an absurd amount of data for which one doesn't actually need an internet connection. For example, I can turn on the local news to learn why there's a major internet outage and when my porn and hate machine might become functional again. But... trying to push out a new broadcasting standard before most TVs can receive the signal? That's a recipe for failure right there. And, as someone pointed out above, why do we need 3 different global standards for receiving broadcast TV? Like, I know we're Americans and we do things the 'merican way, but this isn't the metric system. We can have a TV that works the same here as it does in Europe. Probably. I don't know what frequency bands European TVs use, and that's kind of important, but the decoding and video hardware should still be compatible between the two. And I say this as an actual electronics engineer - developing and debugging 2 different systems is double the work. It's dumb.
 
lizyrd
2023-01-29 12:36:19 AM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


Sure. I have an antenna up in the attic - get hi-def broadcast from all the major networks, plus a bunch of low-tier garbage channels that have reruns of old shows. Maybe 40-45 channels total. One of the local stations uses one of their sub-channels to run an all day loop of the most recent weather report, side-by-side with a live radar which is kind of nice. For a ~$100 investment 5 years ago. Paired with one streaming subscription that has some content we really want, it fits our needs nicely and keeps the cost really low.
 
DesertCoyote [OhFark]
2023-01-29 1:02:20 AM  

NewWorldDan: Ketchuponsteak: I know not everyone has access to decent internet, particularly in North America. But won't those without access to proper internet, also be the same people who won't be close enough to a broadcasting tower?

IMHO the internet has already made OTA broadcasting obsolete, or at least ought to have done so.

Well, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. An OTA broadcast can push out an absurd amount of data for which one doesn't actually need an internet connection. For example, I can turn on the local news to learn why there's a major internet outage and when my porn and hate machine might become functional again. But... trying to push out a new broadcasting standard before most TVs can receive the signal? That's a recipe for failure right there. And, as someone pointed out above, why do we need 3 different global standards for receiving broadcast TV? Like, I know we're Americans and we do things the 'merican way, but this isn't the metric system. We can have a TV that works the same here as it does in Europe. Probably. I don't know what frequency bands European TVs use, and that's kind of important, but the decoding and video hardware should still be compatible between the two. And I say this as an actual electronics engineer - developing and debugging 2 different systems is double the work. It's dumb.


The American TV system has always about who gives the FCC the most cash. For color TV, it was RCA. Zenith developed the digital system most people receive OTA TV with. There are a lot of different companies chipping in for ATSC 3.0/"NextGen TV." For these companies, if it doesn't succeed, they have a lot of R&D money to lose.
 
HempHead
2023-01-29 1:06:56 AM  
Lot of old people on Fark.
 
phimuskapsi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-29 2:42:52 AM  

Al Tsheimers: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?

I do, but it depends on your definition of "watch". I can get 62 channels. I can't stomach most of what is available. I will watch PBS, football on Sundays, occasional motor sports, reruns of Rockford Files or Columbo, and that's about it. Prime or YouTube for streaming.


Channels is kind of a loose term as well. In Rochester we have 42 "broadcast channels" but most of them are channels you have never heard of that are basically subsidiary channels under the big ones. Things like "Comet TV" or "Laff" or "BUZZR"

I still pay for cable because it lowers my internet bill and I want to watch Bills games live, that stream lag is a killer when you have talkative friends and family that will spoil plays at times. Additionally Spectrum allows local TV streaming over a cell phone connection (and things like ESPN) without being in your home WIFI, and being in your home WIFI allows you to stream everything they have.
 
hlehmann
2023-01-29 6:11:50 AM  

Intrepid00: OhioUGrad: Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.

Targeted in that you probably see commercials for where you live not tracking. It's broadcast not a cellphone.

For example, I lived between DC and Baltimore and would see ads constantly for both cities that I didn't give two farks about but this standard might allow for targeted geo to give me ads for the business in the city I lived.


You sweet summer child.
 
mrmaster
2023-01-29 7:59:23 AM  
I don't know anyone under the age of 62 that watches OTA.

I can't get OTA did to my terrain.

I say kill AM\FM radio and OTA TV. It's all obsolete.
 
neeNHA
2023-01-29 8:16:58 AM  

mrmaster: I don't know anyone under the age of 62 that watches OTA.

I can't get OTA did to my terrain.

I say kill AM\FM radio and OTA TV. It's all obsolete.


Obsolete in the sense that the only bill you gotta pay is electric.
 
DesertCoyote [OhFark]
2023-01-29 9:17:08 AM  

mrmaster: I don't know anyone under the age of 62 that watches OTA.

I can't get OTA did to my terrain.

I say kill AM\FM radio and OTA TV. It's all obsolete.


A lot of these home broadband providers have something called "data caps." If someone were to stream all their TV, including sports in 4K, most homes would exceed those caps. Until someone figures out low-latency streaming, watching OTA TV, especially for sports, brings things closer to the actual time.
 
Snotnose
2023-01-29 9:48:18 AM  

OhioUGrad: Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.


Seconded.
 
Farkage
2023-01-29 10:03:10 AM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


Yes, because I refuse to give cable companies a bunch of money for 100 channels of absolute crap in the hopes that once in a while a show will actually be halfway decent.
 
Farkage
2023-01-29 10:08:40 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: The loss of broadcast television should be considered a public service.


Being forced to give money to a cable company if you want to watch TV should be a public service?  How about the loss of radio?  Should paid satellite subscriptions be the only thing you get and the peasants will just have to adapt?
 
mrmopar5287 [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 11:07:07 AM  

TheSubjunctive: The broadcasters have been perfectly happy to cut their main signal quality further and further to add yet another potato-vision 1Mbps QVC2 stream


It took a few years for this problem to be sorted out when HDTV first rolled out. My local Fox affiliate was the worst. I would be watching something in prime time and the most annoying visual problems occurred. Every time there was a scene change on a HD program, it would be blurry for a split second until it sharpened. Them dumping down the bitstream to offer more bandwidth to the secondary channels was causing way too much compression of the main channel.
 
farkitallletitend
2023-01-29 12:14:56 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


Everyday. Many of the stations people pay for are free on Roku or OTA broadcast. My indoor antenna pulls in 140 stations. Most are in another language so it's like cable without the monthly bill.
 
akallen404
2023-01-29 1:29:49 PM  
So my ability to watch a 4k version of Seinfeld with audio sync issues and popup ads across the bottom third of the screen are in peril?! I guess I'll have to settle for the remastered Babylon 5 on streaming with the weird sound/music heavy audio mix and the weird off-brand theme song due to copyright issues.
 
Fissile
2023-01-29 4:48:33 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Do people still watch broadcast tv?


Farkage: Marcus Aurelius: The loss of broadcast television should be considered a public service.

Being forced to give money to a cable company if you want to watch TV should be a public service?  How about the loss of radio?  Should paid satellite subscriptions be the only thing you get and the peasants will just have to adapt?


Loss of radio is very likely to happen as the cellular providers demand ever more frequencies.  As is stands now Tesla doesn't even offer the buyers of their cars the option of listening to terrestrial radio.  I have a cell phone with a FM tuner.   I can listen to local FM radio stations without using any data since it's not streaming.   When my phone updated to Android 11 the radio tuner was disabled.  I rolled the phone back to Android 10.
 
jake3988 [OhFark]
2023-01-29 5:06:58 PM  

DesertCoyote: Goimir: And you'll need like clear line of sight to get a watchable signal?  Used to be you'd get a little snow with analog, but digital will out on you errors if the perfect.

ATSC 3.0 is supposed to be easier to receive than the current digital TV system (ATSC 1.0, technically known as 8-VSB, which is very fragile).


Well, if that's true, that's good.

I have an antenna and I live 1.5 miles from the broadcast tower of one of the stations... and yet there are days when I straight up can't tune it in.  Which is beyond absurd.

I miss the days of 'snow' on analog signals.  I'd far rather have a slightly degraded signal (or very degraded, if really far away) instead of this all or nothing BS with digital.

DesertCoyote: A lot of these home broadband providers have something called "data caps." If someone were to stream all their TV, including sports in 4K, most homes would exceed those caps. Until someone figures out low-latency streaming, watching OTA TV, especially for sports, brings things closer to the actual time.


Not really anymore. All the 5g and fiber being rolled out all don't have any sort of data caps.  If you're still stuck on an internet provider with a data cap, leave for one of the new ones.  They're usually cheaper, have no caps, and are much faster.  Most companies are trying to kill off those legacy ones by keeping them terrible.

Obviously, they're not available everywhere... but if you live in real civilization (and not in the middle of nowhere like seemingly half of fark), you should have the option of at least one of them, if not more.
 
TheSubjunctive
2023-01-29 5:29:15 PM  

Fissile: Loss of radio is very likely to happen as the cellular providers demand ever more frequencies.


I haven't seen any real interest that way. While 20 MHz isn't entirely too small to matter, it's not a game changer, particularly down in the noisy VHF spectrum with lots of spark plugs and arcing Christmas lights, with too-deep propagation, larger (optimal) antenna lengths and all sorts of weird effects (skip, ducting, etc).
 
Intrepid00 [TotalFark]
2023-01-29 9:11:43 PM  

TheSubjunctive: Fissile: Loss of radio is very likely to happen as the cellular providers demand ever more frequencies.

I haven't seen any real interest that way. While 20 MHz isn't entirely too small to matter, it's not a game changer, particularly down in the noisy VHF spectrum with lots of spark plugs and arcing Christmas lights, with too-deep propagation, larger (optimal) antenna lengths and all sorts of weird effects (skip, ducting, etc).


FM and AM is dead already in a lot of countries. Like Norway.
 
Fursecution [BareFark]
2023-01-29 10:17:27 PM  

mrmopar5287: TheSubjunctive: The broadcasters have been perfectly happy to cut their main signal quality further and further to add yet another potato-vision 1Mbps QVC2 stream

It took a few years for this problem to be sorted out when HDTV first rolled out. My local Fox affiliate was the worst. I would be watching something in prime time and the most annoying visual problems occurred. Every time there was a scene change on a HD program, it would be blurry for a split second until it sharpened. Them dumping down the bitstream to offer more bandwidth to the secondary channels was causing way too much compression of the main channel.


Heh. The local Fox station here, occasionally when something (like Nascar) would go to commercial, the audio would get switched to SAP... and after twenty minutes or so, I'd notice that I hadn't heard the annoying announcers in a while.

/They did eventually fix that bug.
//Probably about 15 years ago.
 
what the cat dragged in
2023-01-29 10:18:48 PM  

OhioUGrad: Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.


And miss out on this?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Any Pie Left
2023-01-29 11:16:40 PM  
I think the demand for 4k broadcast is overrated. Consumers are happy enough with 2k and crappy streams, the tv stations will subdivde their signals into more and more lower quality sub-channels, all with old and/ or cheap-ass programming pitching more and more ads to smaller and smaller niche markets, chasing shrinking revenue. And you think people will just go buy new sets yet again? For that? Nuh uh.
 
Izunbacol [recently expired TotalFark]
2023-01-30 6:20:13 AM  

Intrepid00: OhioUGrad: Huh, "ATSC 3.0 allows broadcasters to deliver ultra-HDTV, immersive audio, emergency alerts that could wake up "sleeping" devices, more localized content, targeted advertising, datacasting and more."

That sounds like a whole lot of fark off.

Targeted in that you probably see commercials for where you live not tracking. It's broadcast not a cellphone.

For example, I lived between DC and Baltimore and would see ads constantly for both cities that I didn't give two farks about but this standard might allow for targeted geo to give me ads for the business in the city I lived.


Suburban MD here too. I can get both DC and Baltimore channels with the antenna in the attic, but neither clearly and consistently enough to actually watch something. I've tried to find a way that YTTV, HuluLive, Sling, Etc would let me choose Balt over DC, but they all seem to base your broadcast stations specifically on your "home" market.

DC stations carry VA political ads, and those confederate motherfarkers on the other side of the moat have elections running constantly. Not only that, they have competitive districts and deep pockets, so the sheer volume of political mudslinging could extinguish a burning Tesla.
 
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