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(Gizmodo)   Wizards surrender to angry mob   (gizmodo.com) divider line
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    More: Cool, Open gaming, Creative Commons, Dungeons & Dragons, Wizards of the Coast, Open Game License, Creative Commons license, relentless fan backlash, D20 System  
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1597 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 27 Jan 2023 at 8:35 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Private_Citizen [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-27 5:13:56 PM  
I'm glad they backed off, that was BS in the extreme.
 
greentea1985 [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 6:59:01 PM  
Hell hath no fury like an angry nerd. D&D tried to create a contract to screw over a whole community built around a game where you have to carefully read rules to use them to your best advantage. They went up against the best non-lawyer rules lawyers on earth. It was so dumb. This was the smartest move possible to WOtC. They are disengaging and surrendering in the hopes that they will win back the community.
 
Nintenfreak [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 8:20:23 PM  
Good, now stop making so many goddamn MTG products and marking them up for hundreds of dollars.
 
RoyFokker'sGhost
2023-01-27 8:43:50 PM  
Good development. Right choice.

Wizards/Hasbro still are going to be dealing with community tryst issues for a long time, though.
 
RoyFokker'sGhost
2023-01-27 8:45:01 PM  
*trust

Stupid phone keyboard

Although, tryst applies as well...
 
talkertopc [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 8:46:25 PM  
Who knew rules lawyers could be good for something?
 
skyotter
2023-01-27 8:46:38 PM  
Keyboard army levels up.
 
NathanAllen
2023-01-27 9:07:16 PM  
When those card people bought the dice people this was inevitable.

All thus has happened before (miniatures) and it will all happen again (AI as the DM.)
 
Last Man on Earth
2023-01-27 9:09:47 PM  

greentea1985: They went up against the best non-lawyer rules lawyers on earth.


And plenty of actual lawyer rules lawyers.  Let's not play like there's not a solid bit of overlap between the profession and the fandom.  I've known plenty, both on Fark and in the real world.

All that said, let's not think this is over.  They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.  This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.
 
Lonestar
2023-01-27 9:12:38 PM  
I do not think they backed down because of fan backlash. ia think they backed down because of INVESTOR backlash. Heads on spikes are demanded by hedge funds.

I say to send them to the wall.

Hasbro mocked by Investors over Magic the Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons controversies
Youtube nTDwkiEiTrU
 
grimlock1972
2023-01-27 9:16:06 PM  
Good, that said i am sure they are still going to look for others ways to monetize D&D more than it currently is.
 
leeksfromchichis [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 9:19:10 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Good development. Right choice.

Wizards/Hasbro still are going to be dealing with community tryst issues for a long time, though.


D&D belongs to TSR and posterity.

TSR doesn't exist anymore.

WotC is just playing with a ball of legal rights to publish homebrew that can be profitable if they don't fark it up
 
Capo Del Bandito
2023-01-27 9:22:08 PM  
There's a joke about rolling natural 21 here but I can't make it work.
 
Vlad_the_Inaner
2023-01-27 9:39:53 PM  
preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
Nimbull
2023-01-27 9:51:01 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: *trust

Stupid phone keyboard

Although, tryst applies as well...


Someone failed their Dex check on the phone.
 
WilderKWight
2023-01-27 10:00:36 PM  
They did not cave to fans.

They caved to partners in the upcoming movie release, and to their partnership with Netflix for the next season of Stranger Things and all the associated merchandise.

And I promise you, it's only temporary. Once the media surrounding those money-makers dies down and they've gotten all they can from their initial release, WotC will quietly go back to this and not mention it as loudly this time.

This is the company that was added the equivalent of microtransactions to tabletop gaming. They're not going to back down on finding a way to scrape money off of other people's work. I promise you that.
 
greentea1985 [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 10:15:03 PM  

Last Man on Earth: greentea1985: They went up against the best non-lawyer rules lawyers on earth.

And plenty of actual lawyer rules lawyers.  Let's not play like there's not a solid bit of overlap between the profession and the fandom.  I've known plenty, both on Fark and in the real world.

All that said, let's not think this is over.  They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.  This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.


Oh yeah. Everyone expects a backstab as soon as no one is looking.
 
RoyFokker'sGhost
2023-01-27 10:18:38 PM  

leeksfromchichis: RoyFokker'sGhost: Good development. Right choice.

Wizards/Hasbro still are going to be dealing with community tryst issues for a long time, though.

D&D belongs to TSR and posterity.

TSR doesn't exist anymore.

WotC is just playing with a ball of legal rights to publish homebrew that can be profitable if they don't fark it up


No. D&D belongs to Wizards of the Coast, who bought TSR and all its intellectual properties and copyrights.

Hasbro bought Wizards of the Coast, thus controlling those same intellectual property and copyrights.

Hasbro is the bad actor, in this case; including the asinine pricing of limited Magic releases.
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 10:26:43 PM  

NathanAllen: When those card people bought the dice people this was inevitable.

All thus has happened before (miniatures) and it will all happen again (AI as the DM.)


When WotC bought TSR it was a pure vanity purchase.   Richard Garfield was basically a prototype .com  insta-millionaire and a geek from way back.   Buying the nearly moribund corpse of TSR  was a trophy for his wall  not a business decision,   It wasn't until streaming long-play D&D suddenly became popular that  WotC  realized D&D was undergoing a Renaissance that could cash in on

Then an activist investor ar Hasbro  started pushing them to maximize returns and one of their bright boys from the video game division started pushing the idea that Books were a "relic" and that going forward everybody would be using virtual tabletops, and that was a golden opportunity to "monetize the space" and lard it up with microtransactions and the like.  The  VTT was the endgame, but the ham-handed way they went ahout trying to force it on the community, was SEVERELY damaging the "brand" to the point that the Movie,, the TV series, the Lego and Nerf products were all going to be shunned.      They counted up gifures on the spreadsheet and began apologizing profusely
 
Iczer
2023-01-27 10:26:47 PM  
Way too little, way too late.
 
Unsung_Hero
2023-01-27 10:29:50 PM  

Last Man on Earth: They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.


Agreed.

Last Man on Earth: This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.

Disagree.  They declared war, beating them back into a ceasefire while they inevitably regroup and try again with a different tactic is not the same thing as peace.

Rather than vigilance and returning to WotC, players should do their damnedest to migrate away from them to others, and those others need to migrate away from any remaining dependence on WotC.
 
sebacoyl chloride [BareFark]
2023-01-27 10:30:30 PM  
It's a trick.  Get an axe.
 
skyotter
2023-01-27 10:32:31 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: There's a joke about rolling natural 21 here but I can't make it work.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Last Man on Earth
2023-01-27 10:37:18 PM  

Unsung_Hero: Last Man on Earth: They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.

Agreed.

Last Man on Earth: This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.

Disagree.  They declared war, beating them back into a ceasefire while they inevitably regroup and try again with a different tactic is not the same thing as peace.

Rather than vigilance and returning to WotC, players should do their damnedest to migrate away from them to others, and those others need to migrate away from any remaining dependence on WotC.


Fair point.  Best way to stay vigilant is to move over to Paizo or Kobold Press and the ORC if at all possible.  At least WotC being forced to back down will help us ease the transition within the fandom without it needing to be one big jump all at once.

/Any CR fans notice they didn't mention D&D Beyond as a sponsor in last night's session?  Could be a coincidence, they had a lot of sponsors last night, but the timing...
 
EqualOpportunityEnslaver
2023-01-27 10:50:43 PM  

Last Man on Earth: Unsung_Hero: Last Man on Earth: They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.

Agreed.

Last Man on Earth: This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.

Disagree.  They declared war, beating them back into a ceasefire while they inevitably regroup and try again with a different tactic is not the same thing as peace.

Rather than vigilance and returning to WotC, players should do their damnedest to migrate away from them to others, and those others need to migrate away from any remaining dependence on WotC.

Fair point.  Best way to stay vigilant is to move over to Paizo or Kobold Press and the ORC if at all possible.  At least WotC being forced to back down will help us ease the transition within the fandom without it needing to be one big jump all at once.

/Any CR fans notice they didn't mention D&D Beyond as a sponsor in last night's session?  Could be a coincidence, they had a lot of sponsors last night, but the timing...


They've been rotating through a LOT of sponsors in C3, so it could certainly be coincidence. Matt has made lots of subtle terminology changes this campaign, though, so it could also be a sign that he's been able to see the writing on the wall for some time - and, what with him having published a few books *with* WotC, he'd be the right type of person to have that sort of "insider" info.
 
Last Man on Earth
2023-01-27 11:01:36 PM  

EqualOpportunityEnslaver: Last Man on Earth: Unsung_Hero: Last Man on Earth: They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.

Agreed.

Last Man on Earth: This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.

Disagree.  They declared war, beating them back into a ceasefire while they inevitably regroup and try again with a different tactic is not the same thing as peace.

Rather than vigilance and returning to WotC, players should do their damnedest to migrate away from them to others, and those others need to migrate away from any remaining dependence on WotC.

Fair point.  Best way to stay vigilant is to move over to Paizo or Kobold Press and the ORC if at all possible.  At least WotC being forced to back down will help us ease the transition within the fandom without it needing to be one big jump all at once.

/Any CR fans notice they didn't mention D&D Beyond as a sponsor in last night's session?  Could be a coincidence, they had a lot of sponsors last night, but the timing...

They've been rotating through a LOT of sponsors in C3, so it could certainly be coincidence. Matt has made lots of subtle terminology changes this campaign, though, so it could also be a sign that he's been able to see the writing on the wall for some time - and, what with him having published a few books *with* WotC, he'd be the right type of person to have that sort of "insider" info.


Yeah, the whole thing is interesting.  People have made noise about how their response has been mealy-mouthed, but they've got a contract, and they've got people's jobs riding on this.  To anyone who's familiar with sponsorship contracts and non-disparagement clauses and the like, the seemingly-mild public announcements of "we support independent content creators" have been screaming about as loudly as they could get away with.  That's what made me wonder about the lack of sponsorship announcement, it made me very curious whether they'd pulled some sort of trigger behind the scenes.
 
leeksfromchichis [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 11:01:54 PM  
RoyFokker'sGhost:

No. Mickey Mouse law, literally in this case but also figuratively, don't mean jack nor s***.  Dungeons and Dragons belongs to the ages now.

That said, the brand is owned by WotC who are owned by Hasbro and they got some boffins in from MBA world who promptly put a nailgun to their own company's dick.  Which is all legal ect. but why I don't respect sheepskin copyright law.
 
EqualOpportunityEnslaver
2023-01-27 11:12:48 PM  

Last Man on Earth: EqualOpportunityEnslaver: Last Man on Earth: Unsung_Hero: Last Man on Earth: They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.

Agreed.

Last Man on Earth: This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.

Disagree.  They declared war, beating them back into a ceasefire while they inevitably regroup and try again with a different tactic is not the same thing as peace.

Rather than vigilance and returning to WotC, players should do their damnedest to migrate away from them to others, and those others need to migrate away from any remaining dependence on WotC.

Fair point.  Best way to stay vigilant is to move over to Paizo or Kobold Press and the ORC if at all possible.  At least WotC being forced to back down will help us ease the transition within the fandom without it needing to be one big jump all at once.

/Any CR fans notice they didn't mention D&D Beyond as a sponsor in last night's session?  Could be a coincidence, they had a lot of sponsors last night, but the timing...

They've been rotating through a LOT of sponsors in C3, so it could certainly be coincidence. Matt has made lots of subtle terminology changes this campaign, though, so it could also be a sign that he's been able to see the writing on the wall for some time - and, what with him having published a few books *with* WotC, he'd be the right type of person to have that sort of "insider" info.

Yeah, the whole thing is interesting.  People have made noise about how their response has been mealy-mouthed, but they've got a contract, and they've got people's jobs riding on this.  To anyone who's familiar with sponsorship contracts and non-disparagement clauses and the like, the seemingly-mild public announcements of "we support independent content creators" have been screaming about as loudly as they could get away with.  That's what made me wonder about the lack of sponsorship announcement, it made me very curious whether they'd pulled some sort of trigger behind the scenes.


The fact that the CR crew hasn't made any stronger statement than they have should be all the indication a person needs to realize that they legally CAN'T without serious consequences. They're part of the "little guy content creators" that blew up under the OGL, too - they didn't suddenly forget where they came from or how they got where they are.
 
Fooshards
2023-01-27 11:25:29 PM  

greentea1985: Hell hath no fury like an angry nerd. D&D tried to create a contract to screw over a whole community built around a game where you have to carefully read rules to use them to your best advantage. They went up against the best non-lawyer rules lawyers on earth. It was so dumb. This was the smartest move possible to WOtC. They are disengaging and surrendering in the hopes that they will win back the community.


While all of what you said is true, when the board members rotate after some "missed earnings" golden parachutes, the new roster of shiatheads will eventually try again.
 
AppleOptionEsc
2023-01-27 11:29:49 PM  

Magorn: NathanAllen: When those card people bought the dice people this was inevitable.

All thus has happened before (miniatures) and it will all happen again (AI as the DM.)

When WotC bought TSR it was a pure vanity purchase.   Richard Garfield was basically a prototype .com  insta-millionaire and a geek from way back.   Buying the nearly moribund corpse of TSR  was a trophy for his wall  not a business decision,   It wasn't until streaming long-play D&D suddenly became popular that  WotC  realized D&D was undergoing a Renaissance that could cash in on


Lol wut? You think 3.0 and 3.5, a system so popular, Pathfinder repicked it up when 4.0 turned into a bad decision?

Yeah, 5th edition is 8 years old at this point, but 3.0 was the revival. 5th edition is just the internet age. It's been a rocket sled uphill ever since 2000. It never stopped, because WotC realized that 4th edition wasn't going to work.
 
Monkeyfark Ridiculous
2023-01-27 11:42:21 PM  
So, isn't the stuff they were supposedly withdrawing licensing for--and the material they're now putting into CC--only the stuff that no one really needed a license for in the first place? I.e., the rules of the game?

Kinda seems like WotC stabbed itself in the PR dick for no real reason and then everyone else acted like it somehow hurt *them*, and now WotC is trying to stem the bleeding and everyone else is like, "Watch out, he might try it again!"
 
Summoner101
2023-01-27 11:52:09 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Good development. Right choice.

Wizards/Hasbro still are going to be dealing with community tryst issues for a long time, though.


Stupid, sexy beholder!
 
scalpod
2023-01-28 12:29:12 AM  

Summoner101: RoyFokker'sGhost: Good development. Right choice.

Wizards/Hasbro still are going to be dealing with community tryst issues for a long time, though.

Stupid, sexy beholder!


I see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see what you did there.
 
Tyrone Slothrop [TotalFark]
2023-01-28 12:36:29 AM  
4th ed failed due to a) trying to turn D&D into WoW, and b) changing the license, which made it much harder for 3rd-parties to make content for it. 5th ed went back to the original OGL, and has been wildly successful. You'd think Wizards/Hasbro would learn from that, but it's been shown time and time again that executives never learn.
 
Tyrone Slothrop [TotalFark]
2023-01-28 12:39:45 AM  

Lonestar: I do not think they backed down because of fan backlash. ia think they backed down because of INVESTOR backlash. Heads on spikes are demanded by hedge funds.

I say to send them to the wall.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/nTDwkiEiTrU]


Investor backlash happened because players started to abandon Wizards (particularly D&D Beyond).
 
Tyrone Slothrop [TotalFark]
2023-01-28 12:40:44 AM  

grimlock1972: Good, that said i am sure they are still going to look for others ways to monetize D&D more than it currently is.


They should just do it the traditional way: hundreds of splat books.
 
Tyrone Slothrop [TotalFark]
2023-01-28 12:42:50 AM  

greentea1985: Last Man on Earth: greentea1985: They went up against the best non-lawyer rules lawyers on earth.

And plenty of actual lawyer rules lawyers.  Let's not play like there's not a solid bit of overlap between the profession and the fandom.  I've known plenty, both on Fark and in the real world.

All that said, let's not think this is over.  They'll try again once OneD&D/5.5e/6e gets its final release, and they'll try to slip things in over time.  This was a win to be celebrated, absolutely, but we need to stay vigilant.

Oh yeah. Everyone expects a backstab as soon as no one is looking.


Double damage.
 
Quantumbunny
2023-01-28 12:50:04 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: grimlock1972: Good, that said i am sure they are still going to look for others ways to monetize D&D more than it currently is.

They should just do it the traditional way: hundreds of splat books.


If they weren't total idiots, they're make board games, a CCG, license tv shows, anime, Saturday morning cartoons, plushies, hoodies, socks, underwear...

They shouldn't monetize their property by trying to min max their profits in the mainline product. They need that to sell and be widely accessible for the other stuff to sell.

It's like they failed every business class.
 
Monkeyfark Ridiculous
2023-01-28 4:37:07 AM  

Quantumbunny: If they weren't total idiots, they're make board games, a CCG, license tv shows, anime, Saturday morning cartoons, plushies, hoodies, socks, underwear...


They've done all that.

/well...maybe not anime
 
luidprand
2023-01-28 5:15:29 AM  

Magorn: NathanAllen: When those card people bought the dice people this was inevitable.

All thus has happened before (miniatures) and it will all happen again (AI as the DM.)

When WotC bought TSR it was a pure vanity purchase.   Richard Garfield was basically a prototype .com  insta-millionaire and a geek from way back.   Buying the nearly moribund corpse of TSR  was a trophy for his wall  not a business decision,   It wasn't until streaming long-play D&D suddenly became popular that  WotC  realized D&D was undergoing a Renaissance that could cash in on


What? The entire reason D&D was doing well was because of WotC coming up with 3.x and 5E. If it was still TSR, we'd still be playing 2E with more splatbooks needed to play than RIFTS.Also, and this is important, the 2E ruleset made other systems thrive with how annoying it was.

The problem came in when Hasbro noticed how well WotC was doing and, more importantly, how WotC was the most profitable brand. This led to a bunch of idiots at the top trying to change how things worked rather than trying to learn why WotC was so successful and applying it elsewhere. It was a failure of corporate governance that will absolutely be studied (hell, I might submit a paper on it) in more reputable business schools.

I want to emphasize this - the entire reason D&D has prospered so much is that WotC produced two excellent game systems and have been very good at supporting them.

/2E was a massive improvement over 1E, but then, so was Marvel Superheroes. And Star Frontiers. And TMNT. And Runequest. And Mechwarrior. And Vampire. And Traveller. And even Rogue Trader.
//I want an optional 5E character creation system that allows you to level up but has an increasing chance of killing the character during creation, just as Traveller does. It would be useful in games where evryone starts at level 5 and the like.
 
anuran
2023-01-28 7:00:08 AM  
RLs RTFM. BBEG OGL TPK
 
Tannhauser
2023-01-28 8:07:36 AM  
I don't think this will deter Paizo and others to continue on with the ORC license.  Good from a business standpoint and will gather the new 'never WoTC' players.

I have the PF 2nd edition starter box.  The system seems...fine.  Maybe the main books add the good stuff.
 
olorin604
2023-01-28 9:29:08 AM  
Everyone I know who games owns what d&d care books.

I'm not sure that is going to be true when Next releases.
 
Boojum2k
2023-01-28 9:48:53 AM  

grimlock1972: Good, that said i am sure they are still going to look for others ways to monetize D&D more than it currently is.


Make good new product. Use their extensive back catalog to update and reprint classics. Produce an actual magazine again with both deep crunch and good fluff. Plenty of ways to monetize D&D that will make fans happy.
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2023-01-28 9:52:38 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: Magorn: NathanAllen: When those card people bought the dice people this was inevitable.

All thus has happened before (miniatures) and it will all happen again (AI as the DM.)

When WotC bought TSR it was a pure vanity purchase.   Richard Garfield was basically a prototype .com  insta-millionaire and a geek from way back.   Buying the nearly moribund corpse of TSR  was a trophy for his wall  not a business decision,   It wasn't until streaming long-play D&D suddenly became popular that  WotC  realized D&D was undergoing a Renaissance that could cash in on

Lol wut? You think 3.0 and 3.5, a system so popular, Pathfinder repicked it up when 4.0 turned into a bad decision?

Yeah, 5th edition is 8 years old at this point, but 3.0 was the revival. 5th edition is just the internet age. It's been a rocket sled uphill ever since 2000. It never stopped, because WotC realized that 4th edition wasn't going to work.


I have my biases because I started playing DND when I was 8 year old nd the game was only 5 years old, but Of course Iplayed AD&D and 2e into my 20's (and Whitewolf's offerings and Cyberpunk *lol* 2020)   but 3e just didn't land for me, It just didn't feel like "Real" D&D and it seemed to suffer from all the things that made me stop playing MTG and give all my cards to a friend's kid.    In MTG wizards never trusted players to figure things out on their own and you could find a game come to a screeching halt because somebody printed out a page from Wizard's "official" blog saying the plaintext of the card didn't mean what it said of you couldn't play it any more.    #e felt a lot like that, Between 3 and 3.5 there were also SO MANY think, cheap "sourcebooks" coming out on super-narrow topics that the whole thing seemed like a massive cash grab and I noped away

I know nothing about 4e except that it is universally reviled, and it was the first time they tried to eliminate the OGL.

I got back into D&D because my nephew (in his 20's) was an avid video gamer started watching critical role, convince my never-played-a-TTRPG before wife to watch it, and shortly thereafter I was Playing a regular 5e game with my Wife, son, brother-in-law and my two Nephews, and another Brother-in-law who actually publishes TTRPGs of his own.  Not saying people weren't playing D&D that whole time but it seems to be having "a moment" in the Zeitgeist that I think was more driven by CR than "stranger things"
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2023-01-28 10:04:43 AM  

luidprand: Magorn: NathanAllen: When those card people bought the dice people this was inevitable.

All thus has happened before (miniatures) and it will all happen again (AI as the DM.)

When WotC bought TSR it was a pure vanity purchase.   Richard Garfield was basically a prototype .com  insta-millionaire and a geek from way back.   Buying the nearly moribund corpse of TSR  was a trophy for his wall  not a business decision,   It wasn't until streaming long-play D&D suddenly became popular that  WotC  realized D&D was undergoing a Renaissance that could cash in on

What? The entire reason D&D was doing well was because of WotC coming up with 3.x and 5E. If it was still TSR, we'd still be playing 2E with more splatbooks needed to play than RIFTS.Also, and this is important, the 2E ruleset made other systems thrive with how annoying it was.

The problem came in when Hasbro noticed how well WotC was doing and, more importantly, how WotC was the most profitable brand. This led to a bunch of idiots at the top trying to change how things worked rather than trying to learn why WotC was so successful and applying it elsewhere. It was a failure of corporate governance that will absolutely be studied (hell, I might submit a paper on it) in more reputable business schools.

I want to emphasize this - the entire reason D&D has prospered so much is that WotC produced two excellent game systems and have been very good at supporting them.

/2E was a massive improvement over 1E, but then, so was Marvel Superheroes. And Star Frontiers. And TMNT. And Runequest. And Mechwarrior. And Vampire. And Traveller. And even Rogue Trader.
//I want an optional 5E character creation system that allows you to level up but has an increasing chance of killing the character during creation, just as Traveller does. It would be useful in games where evryone starts at level 5 and the like.


A dear Friend of mine, a trained anthropologist has been doing a 10+ year longitudinal study on WotC management that started as her Thesis and has been continued largely out of morbid curiosity.   She has told me during this kerfuffle that to attribute any cunning or tactics to  how WOTC management handled this is to give them FAR too much credit  (I had posited they leaked the New OGL precisely to cause outrage and then appear to "back down" while subbing it for one that was still more restrictive than the original, much like the whole New Coke thing).   She also emphasized how NOT a part of Hasbro WotC  really is.    Hasbro is more of a client they deliver a product to than a corporate overlord.   Hasbro's exec are all physical toymakers and don't begin to understand RPGs except with a vague "they're kinda like paper video games right"? kind of way.    As long as Wizards was making money they were most hands off.    It was only when this push by the "activist investors" to make ALL THE MONEY happened that Hasbro started paying attention to Wizards, and that infamous "under-monetized" quote came from Hasbro's CEO at the investor call.   And since they saw TTRPGS as paper video games they started looking at video game revenue model and how micro-transactions are (in the words of senior execs at Epic) a "solution" to the "problem of the $60 game" which seems to be the price point most gamers won't go beyond when buying a new game.
 
luidprand
2023-01-28 10:22:18 AM  
Magorn:

A dear Friend of mine, a trained anthropologist has been doing a 10+ year longitudinal study on WotC management that started as her Thesis and has been continued largely out of morbid curiosity.   She has told me during this kerfuffle that to attribute any cunning or tactics to  how WOTC management handled this is to give them FAR too much credit  (I had posited they leaked the New OGL precisely to cause outrage and then appear to "back down" while subbing it for one that was still more restrictive than the original, much like the whole New Coke thing).   She also emphasized how NOT a part of Hasbro WotC  really is.    Hasbro is more of a client they deliver a product to than a corporate overlord.   Hasbro's exec are all physical toymakers and don't begin to understand RPGs except with a vague "they're kinda like paper video games right"? kind of way.    As long as Wizards was making money they were most hands off.    It was only when this push by the "activist investors" to make ALL THE MONEY happened that Hasbro started paying attention to Wizards, and that infamous "under-monetized" quote came from Hasbro's CEO at the investor call.   And since they saw TTRPGS as paper video games they started looking at video game revenue model and how micro-transactions are (in the words of senior execs at Epic) a "solution" to the "problem of the $60 game" which seems to be the price point most gamers won't go beyond when buying a new game.

That's exactly my impression. WotC was trundling along and knew its market, for the most part. They aren't without failures, for certain (their adding of "seasons" and charging shops/DMs for promotional materials comes to mind), but, on the balance, have done mostly right by the players. Hasbro, on the other hand, doesn't understand the market and is treating MtG like Barbie, by thinking they can make more money by making more versions. Their attempt to do the same with D&D is even less viable, as MtG at least has two or three versions a year built into the market, but D&D just doesn't.

This may not be B School 101, but recognizing your different markets' desires, buying patterns, investiture, and so on is definitely taught by the 300 level (I know, because I tested my students on it (how I went from teaching English to teaching business is a long, boring story)). These are basic things they (and many of the "move fast and break things" investors) simply are completely failing at.

For the record, for the most part, I like One D&D's rule changes. Most of them are already common house rules or express how things are actually done (such as treating Guidance as a reaction). The desire to monetize the whole thing in a different manner than they were doing before, not by making new ancillary product, but by chopping things up and selling them in dribs and drabs, is a prime example of ignoring what has worked in favor of what, frankly, has not (see EA, Ubisoft, Square, and the like's experiences with lootboxes and NFTs)

/Scared that the next thing are NFT-based spell or monsters on their upcoming VTT.
//Which is likelier than not.
 
Lonestar
2023-01-28 10:30:23 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Lonestar: I do not think they backed down because of fan backlash. ia think they backed down because of INVESTOR backlash. Heads on spikes are demanded by hedge funds.

I say to send them to the wall.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/nTDwkiEiTrU]

Investor backlash happened because players started to abandon Wizards (particularly D&D Beyond).


Yes but the announcement that they were cancelling the whole thing happened the very next day AltaFox Capital analysts were calling for Chris Cocks head as an incompetent fool.
The next DAY they fired 1000 jobs, did Connor Haley know in advance? Perhaps.
What everyone didn't see coming is that they would back down on authorizing the OGL 1.0a.

I think we should see some BOD changes soon happening at WotC and Hasbro. Fire them all, get people who love their customers and the game on board. They are already the biggest fish in the pond.

They should start selling DnD toys as Hasbro is a TOY COMPANY. Imagine Chris Pine action minies or action figures sold with a d20 so you can roll if he succeeds on his actions or totally fails and then make a story of how badly he fails.
 
PvtStash
2023-01-28 10:43:46 AM  
uhhh, little correction for greater truth:


Dungeons & Dragons HASBRO Scraps publicly pauses Plans to Update Its Open Game License, will slip this in later when you're not paying so close attention.
 
Michael J Faux
2023-01-28 10:45:53 AM  
Huzzah! This is truly vindication of the superiority of the people too lazy or uncreative to create their own original product to sell! Take THAT, people who dared to make a popular thing I now wish to profit from!
 
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