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(CNN)   Justice Dudebro upset law school rankings don't include partying   (cnn.com) divider line
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    More: Murica, Law school, Lawyer, Employment, Knowledge, George W. Bush, Supreme court, Supreme Court of the United States, Yale Law School  
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2274 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2023 at 9:05 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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hubiestubert [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-27 8:42:03 AM  
"And I find them highly problematic. The reputation score - that's kind of a joke, isn't it? I mean that's - who, who has the knowledge of all the different scores that's judged to give anything approaching a good analysis of that?" Said, a guy who went to a big name law school with the cachet of reputation...
 
Alphax
2023-01-27 9:04:00 AM  
I don't care what upsets that rapist.
 
b0rg9
2023-01-27 9:06:31 AM  
I thought it was Justice Kegstand.
 
MillionDollarMo
2023-01-27 9:08:15 AM  
We need to retire Problematic.

And by that, I mean Brett "Problematic" Kavanaugh needs to fark off to a hole in the ground.
 
Snapper Carr
2023-01-27 9:09:41 AM  
In a letter to law school deans published earlier this month, the publication announced that it would place less importance on surveys that ask academic administrators, lawyers and judges to rate the quality of institutions and more emphasis on measures such as bar exam pass rates and employment outcomes.

Because god forbid we should rate law schools on how well they prepare students for a successful career in the legal profession.
 
BitwiseShift
2023-01-27 9:11:17 AM  
I'm sure he doesn't like that one frat which rates law schools, too -- the ABA.
 
buravirgil
2023-01-27 9:14:33 AM  
And what would be any alternative? Renting his garb and swearing the end is nigh?
 
OhioUGrad
2023-01-27 9:14:35 AM  
Still waiting to hear what happened to make his debt magically disappear.

I bet George Santos paid it off out of kindness.
 
Martian_Astronomer [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 9:16:59 AM  
"Justice Brett Kavanaugh said this week that he is 'optimistic' about the court, his colleagues, and the country"

He's "optimistic" in the same way a 1980's frat bro is "optimistic" about the upcoming party for which he has obtained five handles of vodka and invited a bunch of freshman girls.
 
Don't Troll Me Bro!
2023-01-27 9:18:39 AM  

Snapper Carr: In a letter to law school deans published earlier this month, the publication announced that it would place less importance on surveys that ask academic administrators, lawyers and judges to rate the quality of institutions and more emphasis on measures such as bar exam pass rates and employment outcomes.

Because god forbid we should rate law schools on how well they prepare students for a successful career in the legal profession.


Kind of reminds me of how WI Governor FAS Scott Walker tried to change the mission statement of the University of WI from "
The primary purpose of the University of Wisconsin-Madison is to provide a learning environment in which faculty, staff and students can discover, examine critically, preserve and transmit the knowledge, wisdom and values that will help ensure the survival of this and future generations and improve the quality of life for all. The university seeks to help students to develop an understanding and appreciation for the complex cultural and physical worlds in which they live and to realize their highest potential of intellectual, physical and human development.
It also seeks to attract and serve students from diverse social, economic and ethnic backgrounds and to be sensitive and responsive to those groups which have been underserved by higher education." to "meeting the state's workforce needs".

Just another example in the never ending attempt of the right wing to revert humanity back to feudalist Middle Ages living hell.
 
Cheron
2023-01-27 9:19:06 AM  
In the absence of information we make decisions based on clues that might be wrong. Reputation is one of those clues. Lawyers from the Upstairs Law School get sanctioned a lot. Doesn't mean that a particular grad is better or worse.

Similarly, Justices from Phi Tap a Keg might be great.
 
tyyreaunn
2023-01-27 9:26:09 AM  
FTFA: Asked if he takes the publication's rankings into account when he's looking at law clerks, Kavanaugh replied: "No."

When a student then followed up to ask if he'd consider a law clerk from Notre Dame Law School, he replied, "oh god no - you all are morons."
 
tricycleracer
2023-01-27 9:28:19 AM  
The entire Ivy league has shown time and time again that they're all just rich kid sleepaway camps.
 
PirateKing [OhFark]
2023-01-27 9:34:58 AM  
And here I thought they scored law schools more like fantasy sports.

School gets one point for every case won by a graduate, but loses a point if their graduate loses. If both teams are from the same school, then scoring is based on the number of sustained objections.

Schools also get extra points for each graduate elected to public office, 5 points for a DA, 10 pts for a municipal judge, etc. SCOTUS is only 75 points, but you get bonus points for each year on the bench.

Indictments cost double the current point score of the indicted graduate. But successfully defending against an indictment gets triple score back.
 
born_yesterday [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 9:36:12 AM  
JESUS, the song is  thirty years old and he just keeps playing it and playing it. Every morning,, over and over,, "Kickstart my Heart". This is the goddamn Supreme Court, or at least it used to be, would headphones f*cking kill you?
 
moresugar
2023-01-27 9:36:29 AM  
"And I find them highly problematic. The reputation score - that's kind of a joke, isn't it? I mean that's - who, who has the knowledge of all the different scores that's judged to give anything approaching a good analysis of that?" the justice added.

Here's the dirty little secret of law school: reputation is about the ONLY thing that matters.  The education that students receive in the classroom is roughly comparable whether it's Harvard or some second-tier or even third-tier school.  An adjunct who is a full-time practitioner and part-time educator is often a better teacher than some pointy headed intellectual who traveled the traditional path to a law-school professorship (publication editor at law school, clerk for a circuit or supreme court judge, one or maybe two years in a regulatory agency or law firm specializing in appellate work, then back to law school - all without appearing in front of a trial-court judge even once).

The biggest difference between a top-tier law school and some rinky-dink program like the George Santos School of Law at SUNY-West Egg is the alumni network you buy into with your tuition dollars and the prestige you get from the crest on the diploma.  On the other hand, if all you're interested in is learning how to be a lawyer, you should save your money and go to the cheapest accredited school you can afford.
 
eviljimbo
2023-01-27 9:38:16 AM  
"I'm optimistic that my lifetime appointment is going to enrich me in many ways"
 
APO_Buddha [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 9:40:14 AM  

Snapper Carr: In a letter to law school deans published earlier this month, the publication announced that it would place less importance on surveys that ask academic administrators, lawyers and judges to rate the quality of institutions and more emphasis on measures such as bar exam pass rates and employment outcomes.

Because god forbid we should rate law schools on how well they prepare students for a successful career in the legal profession.


I am not a lawyer, but I am related to two lawyers (my brother and his wife).

They have told me that measuring something like employment outcomes isn't a good idea because a decent percentage of graduates end up in jobs that don't require a JD or people have passed the bar. I know that Marquette (where my brother and his wife went) hires recent graduates without jobs to do surveys so the school can claim a higher employment percentage.

Plus Wisconsin doesn't require people who graduated from the two law schools in the state to pass the bar to practice in Wisconsin.

/I am not a lawyer
//Don't play one on TV
///Didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
 
Drank_the_40_water
2023-01-27 9:40:20 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: "Justice Brett Kavanaugh said this week that he is 'optimistic' about the court, his colleagues, and the country"

He's "optimistic" in the same way a 1980's frat bro is "optimistic" about the upcoming party for which he has obtained five handles of vodka and invited a bunch of freshman girls.


Couldn't put it better, except he is definitely the type to go straight to the roofies.

Privileged christofascist who has never faced consequences does not expect any consequences to his continued efforts to create a christofascist state is definitely a wierd way to say "Optimistic" but here we are.  Anyone know how to get off this ride?
 
DarkSoulNoHope
2023-01-27 9:40:49 AM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Just another example in the never ending attempt of the right wing to revert humanity back to feudalist Middle Ages living hell.


Republicans are way too greedy even for the feudalist Middle Ages. They want to have slaves kept on their property, but are too cheap to pay to house and feed those slaves, acting like the hard work IS the salary because they're too cheap to open up their wallets..
 
foo monkey
2023-01-27 9:49:44 AM  
Can't we just fire him?
 
danvon
2023-01-27 9:54:42 AM  
I cannot really disagree with the criticism on the UNWR rankings. Literally, the worst attorney I ever met went to Harvard. The best, University of Cincinnati. I had a case with a University of Michigan grad (which is considered a top tier program), who just would not listen to reason, was certain that his interpretation of the law was the right one, and, ultimately, his client paid heavily for his arrogance. I can't remember how many times I just wanted to say "dude, you're waaaaay off base here."

Ultimately, there's no way to know how good an attorney is going to be based upon which law school they attend, or how good they're going to be until they have their first case.

That being said, Judge Kegstand sucks, and he's one of the main reasons that the status of the Supreme Court is at historic lows.
 
Super_pope
2023-01-27 9:56:49 AM  
American society and quality of life would improve by about 10,000x if we just arrested everyone who's ever graduated from Georgetown and shot them into the sun
 
heavymetal
2023-01-27 10:04:37 AM  
He is not qualified to be a SCOTUS justice; he was a purely political appointment to be a yes man for right-wing power brokers.
 
Gestalt
2023-01-27 10:08:23 AM  
Of course he's 'optimistic,' he's the one doing the trashing.
 
wademh
2023-01-27 10:31:21 AM  
Rating System Formula.

X = % of students joining the Federalists Society.
Y = % of professors who are members of the Federalist society.

Rating Score (1 best, 0 worst) = (1-X) * (1-Y)
 
DoBeDoBeDo [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 10:35:14 AM  
There are 4 groups of people who care about Law School rankings:

Prospective Students
Law School Recruiters
The people who write Law School Ranking articles
People who have to fall back on "I went to XXXXXX Law School which is ranked #1" because their work doesn't speak for itself.
 
moothemagiccow
2023-01-27 10:40:42 AM  

hubiestubert: "And I find them highly problematic. The reputation score - that's kind of a joke, isn't it? I mean that's - who, who has the knowledge of all the different scores that's judged to give anything approaching a good analysis of that?" Said, a guy who went to a big name law school with the cachet of reputation...


Uhh, NO. He is the PERFECT EXAMPLE. farking moron rapist goes to the Right law school and gets handed a Supreme Court nom.

And he's 100% right. Law professors across the country get asked to rate the other law schools. Based on what?
 
moothemagiccow
2023-01-27 10:46:02 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: There are 4 groups of people who care about Law School rankings:

Prospective Students
Law School Recruiters
The people who write Law School Ranking articles
People who have to fall back on "I went to XXXXXX Law School which is ranked #1" because their work doesn't speak for itself.


1. CLIENTS
2. Federal judges hiring clerks
3. Presidents nominating federal judges
4. Big corporate law firms hiring out of law school (because of #1)
5. Appellate practice firms who favor former clerks
6. Law schools who almost exclusively hire former clerks who went to the top 5 law schools to be professors.


When was the last time you saw a Supreme Court justice who didn't come from one of these three law schools?
 
Don't Troll Me Bro!
2023-01-27 10:47:53 AM  

heavymetal: He is not qualified to be a SCOTUS justice; he was a purely political appointment to be a yes man for right-wing power brokers.


He was worse than that. There are plenty of soulless partisan hacks who were fat better qualified and didn't have all the rapey gambling addict drunkard baggage. He was a giant middle finger to all women and decent men in the US. He was "because we can. What ya gonna do about it? F__k you."
 
moothemagiccow
2023-01-27 10:48:41 AM  

wademh: Rating System Formula.

X = % of students joining the Federalists Society.
Y = % of professors who are members of the Federalist society.

Rating Score (1 best, 0 worst) = (1-X) * (1-Y)


No, stop pretending you understand this. This is far older and far worse than Fedsoc. There's no need to comment on something you have no inkling about because you're bored.
 
Rent Party
2023-01-27 10:49:13 AM  
He's a douche, but he's not wrong.   US News college rankings are insidiously damaging.   Chancellors go nuts to get their ratings higher.

There is an entire chapter on it in this book, which you should read.  If you knew how to read, Philistine.

static.scientificamerican.comView Full Size
 
DoBeDoBeDo [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 10:50:49 AM  
moothemagiccow:

When was the last time you saw a Supreme Court justice who didn't come from one of these three law schools?

Yeah that has NOTHING to do with how they are ranked, and only that you went to the same school, were in the same groups and have families that summer together on The Cape.  Same with 2-6 on your list.

Tomorrow Yale could be ranked dead last, and you'd see 0 change in any of those things because the "in" groups have already been established.
 
moothemagiccow
2023-01-27 10:51:42 AM  

heavymetal: He is not qualified to be a SCOTUS justice; he was a purely political appointment to be a yes man for right-wing power brokers.


What the fark do you think William Rehnquist or Antonin Scalia were? And Thomas? Come the fark on, this is not some new development. You lookie loos think this shiat started with Donald Trump when he was barely involved.

All appellate judges are policymakers. That is the job. There is no balls and strikes. They don't hold trials, they are not umpires. Their job is inherently political. Their job is to make law.
 
moothemagiccow
2023-01-27 10:53:18 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: moothemagiccow:

When was the last time you saw a Supreme Court justice who didn't come from one of these three law schools?

Yeah that has NOTHING to do with how they are ranked, and only that you went to the same school, were in the same groups and have families that summer together on The Cape.  Same with 2-6 on your list.

Tomorrow Yale could be ranked dead last, and you'd see 0 change in any of those things because the "in" groups have already been established.


Fair. It's prestige, not rankings. It's a reflection of the same farked up system.
 
MusicMakeMyHeadPound [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-27 10:55:31 AM  
Kavanaugh reminisced about his time working as a lawyer at the White House during the George W. Bush administration and he said he learned from the former president not to worry about "today's criticism, just stay optimistic about the future."

Of course, GWB nearly immediately experienced damnatio memoriae from his own party and spends his time painting sad little pictures of himself in the bath. But you know, other than that, great lesson.
 
DoBeDoBeDo [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 11:00:53 AM  

moothemagiccow: DoBeDoBeDo: moothemagiccow:

When was the last time you saw a Supreme Court justice who didn't come from one of these three law schools?

Yeah that has NOTHING to do with how they are ranked, and only that you went to the same school, were in the same groups and have families that summer together on The Cape.  Same with 2-6 on your list.

Tomorrow Yale could be ranked dead last, and you'd see 0 change in any of those things because the "in" groups have already been established.

Fair. It's prestige, not rankings. It's a reflection of the same farked up system.


Yup, there could be an HBCU turning out the best lawyers in the country right now but they'd be ranked low because they have 0 Justices in their alumni and graduating from there doesn't earn you immediate entry into some big firm in NYC because you jerked off into a hotdog bun in some Skull and Bones hazing ritual 3 seconds faster than a Partner at that firm.
 
JinxofSpades
2023-01-27 11:16:27 AM  
Anyone else read this headline as "Jason DeRulo"?
No, just me?
Ok more coffee
 
Northern
2023-01-27 11:43:34 AM  

OhioUGrad: Still waiting to hear what happened to make his debt magically disappear.

I bet George Santos paid it off out of kindness.


Don't worry, gamblers that run up $200,000 in credit card debt won't be debt free for long.  That will also ensure continued loyalty and lopsided decisions for the courts in the next few decades.
If only there was some sort of background check the government could do before granting lifetime appointments.
 
Pharmdawg
2023-01-27 12:04:25 PM  
To be fair, just listen to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast episode on US News college rankings. It's all just off the cuff opinions of various (likely busy with actual work) college administrators and such, and usually based on vague historical reputations and not really anything concrete.
 
Theaetetus
2023-01-27 12:31:03 PM  

moresugar: Here's the dirty little secret of law school: reputation is about the ONLY thing that matters.  The education that students receive in the classroom is roughly comparable whether it's Harvard or some second-tier or even third-tier school.


Frequently, it can be worse. I had a summer associate from Harvard who I asked to draft a response to a rejection from the USPTO. He came back with 2 pages of boilerplate and one sentence that just said "the patent examiner failed to make a prima facie case of obviousness, so the claims are patentable." No argument, nothing. When I asked him how he was supporting that conclusion, he said "I don't need to, the burden of proof is on the examiner." Sorry, no, you can't just say 'nuh huh'.

Pretty much the only reason to hire from Harvard or Yale is because you know that their classmates are eventually going to get hired as general counsel somewhere, and they can use those connections to bring in work. But you sure don't want them doing the work, not if you want to avoid malpractice suits.

/the Ivys have also stopped giving out grades, at least for first year, so all 1L law students can claim they're "at the top of their class (with literally the rest of the class)"
 
wademh
2023-01-27 12:51:13 PM  

moothemagiccow: wademh: Rating System Formula.

X = % of students joining the Federalists Society.
Y = % of professors who are members of the Federalist society.

Rating Score (1 best, 0 worst) = (1-X) * (1-Y)

No, stop pretending you understand this. This is far older and far worse than Fedsoc. There's no need to comment on something you have no inkling about because you're bored.


Mine was a recommendation. It's a penalty system against Federalist Society students and profs.
I stand by it.
 
Samfucious [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 12:58:47 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: "Justice Brett Kavanaugh said this week that he is 'optimistic' about the court, his colleagues, and the country"

He's "optimistic" in the same way a 1980's frat bro is "optimistic" about the upcoming party for which he has obtained five handles of vodka and invited a bunch of freshman girls.


Right? I don't want my supreme court justices to be optimistic. I want them to be impartial and logical.

Optimism implies an agenda.
 
mcmnky
2023-01-27 12:58:57 PM  
"That report was ultimately produced on January 19, with the justices announcing that the Marshal of the court had been unable to identify the person responsible for the leak."

Is that accurate? The quote from TFA makes it sound like they don't know who leaked the draft decision. But the report itself makes it sound like they have a pretty good idea who but don't have rock-solid proof (preponderance of evidence).
 
moresugar
2023-01-27 1:36:47 PM  

Theaetetus: moresugar: Here's the dirty little secret of law school: reputation is about the ONLY thing that matters.  The education that students receive in the classroom is roughly comparable whether it's Harvard or some second-tier or even third-tier school.

Frequently, it can be worse. I had a summer associate from Harvard who I asked to draft a response to a rejection from the USPTO. He came back with 2 pages of boilerplate and one sentence that just said "the patent examiner failed to make a prima facie case of obviousness, so the claims are patentable." No argument, nothing. When I asked him how he was supporting that conclusion, he said "I don't need to, the burden of proof is on the examiner." Sorry, no, you can't just say 'nuh huh'.

Pretty much the only reason to hire from Harvard or Yale is because you know that their classmates are eventually going to get hired as general counsel somewhere, and they can use those connections to bring in work. But you sure don't want them doing the work, not if you want to avoid malpractice suits.

/the Ivys have also stopped giving out grades, at least for first year, so all 1L law students can claim they're "at the top of their class (with literally the rest of the class)"


I concur.  Reminds me of a time when there was a supreme court vacancy and a Harvard professor was moderating a panel on PBS or C-SPAN or something and the topic was who would be the nominee.  A person from the audience asked the moderator who he thought should be the nominee and the moderator responded "well, I don't think there should be a supreme court, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask."  Really?  Why are you even on the panel then?

There's probably more of a risk that a professor at a top-tier law school will be disconnected from the realities of the legal profession, especially given that so few of them have actually practiced. Harvard and Yale, for instance, both went through their "Critical Legal Studies" phases.  I can't imagine what that would have been like for the students, especially 1Ls.

Student: "Why did the kid with the hairy hand sue the doctor for battery?  Wouldn't this be treated as a malpractice case now?"
Professor: "Because it served the interests of the ruling classes."
Student: "Oh.  Is that going to be on the bar exam?"
 
Theaetetus
2023-01-27 2:15:40 PM  

moresugar: There's probably more of a risk that a professor at a top-tier law school will be disconnected from the realities of the legal profession, especially given that so few of them have actually practiced.


Totally... Remember Andrew Tenenbaum, the kid who was sued by the RIAA for umpteen billionty dollars? He was "defended" by Harvard Prof. Charles Neeson (with his copyright class as "assistants"). Neeson, wanting to "educate the public" about the case, put up details of it on his website... including MP3s of the couple dozen songs that Tenenbaum was accused of illegally distributing.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
jerryskid [recently expired TotalFark]
2023-01-27 2:39:27 PM  
I don't listen to rapists. Nor do I clear what their opinion is.
 
Jake Havechek [TotalFark]
2023-01-27 5:38:47 PM  
Sexual predator.
 
Dictatorial_Flair
2023-01-28 1:32:47 AM  

Theaetetus: moresugar: There's probably more of a risk that a professor at a top-tier law school will be disconnected from the realities of the legal profession, especially given that so few of them have actually practiced.

Totally... Remember Andrew Tenenbaum, the kid who was sued by the RIAA for umpteen billionty dollars? He was "defended" by Harvard Prof. Charles Neeson (with his copyright class as "assistants"). Neeson, wanting to "educate the public" about the case, put up details of it on his website... including MP3s of the couple dozen songs that Tenenbaum was accused of illegally distributing.

[Fark user image 400x224] [View Full Size image _x_]


Wow.
 
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