Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   Sucks to be wealthy NYC apartment owners using Airbnb if city enforces its new law against short-term rentals, about 10,000 listings could be wiped off the platform by the end of the year   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, New York City, Airbnb listings, short-term rentals, New York City's latest plans, city laws, Renting, Santa Monica, Christian Klossner  
•       •       •

481 clicks; posted to Business » on 26 Jan 2023 at 2:00 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



27 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2023-01-26 1:18:38 PM  
Empty residential properties should be so heavily taxed it makes no sense to hoard them.

/landlords are first against the wall
 
2023-01-26 1:44:39 PM  
I've suggested in the past that residences only be owned by actual residents. The counter arguments were predictable, debatable, and yet not wrong.

How is this different? Isn't the city depriving someone of fair use?
 
2023-01-26 2:05:41 PM  
You think that's bad? Have you seen how the hamptons have cracked down? I can't rent to more than two people a summer at 25k a week without having to file taxes as a hotel.

You'll never have it as bad as I have it right now.
 
2023-01-26 2:38:24 PM  
It's. About. Farking. Time.
 
2023-01-26 2:40:25 PM  

edmo: I've suggested in the past that residences only be owned by actual residents. The counter arguments were predictable, debatable, and yet not wrong.

How is this different? Isn't the city depriving someone of fair use?


We need to get rid of the idea of fair use.  There is no more wilderness we can legally migrate to, and start our own society.  All land is claimed by a nation.  And they have laid out rules for claiming land on the moon or mars.  There is no place for people to go where hard work can free them from the people who already own everything.  Therefore we need to eliminate the idea of ownership, in the advancement of equity.

Yes, it will suck for the owner caste.  But it sucks currently for the worker caste.  Something will suck.  I am worker caste.  I would rather things suck for the owner caste.  When the owners become workers, they will be on the bottom of the ladder since they will be weak and not trained in work.  They will have to suffer.  The equilibrium will be adjusted.

Problem solved.
 
2023-01-26 2:41:52 PM  

edmo: I've suggested in the past that residences only be owned by actual residents. The counter arguments were predictable, debatable, and yet not wrong.

How is this different? Isn't the city depriving someone of fair use?


I had an airbnb on either side of me. At the last house I bought (a 2018 $500k townhome).

I had to have police come crack down at least once a week for trash, parties, noise, fights, and other various disturbances (vehicle damage, unlawful entry, ect).

Please tell me why I should have my families lives disturbed because you were too poor to invest in purchasing a hotel and instead want to be a shiatty landlord.
 
2023-01-26 2:52:35 PM  
That's a shame.
 
2023-01-26 2:56:13 PM  

edmo: I've suggested in the past that residences only be owned by actual residents. The counter arguments were predictable, debatable, and yet not wrong.

How is this different? Isn't the city depriving someone of fair use?


"the city is aiming to enforce regulations around thousands of illegal short-term rentals across the city"

You want to run a hotel, you follow the "running a hotel" rules
 
2023-01-26 3:04:20 PM  

edmo: I've suggested in the past that residences only be owned by actual residents. The counter arguments were predictable, debatable, and yet not wrong.

How is this different? Isn't the city depriving someone of fair use?


We heavily regulate businesses that provide temporary lodging -- everything from zoning (where they can be located), to design to address health and safety issues, as well as compliance with ADA laws, to ensuring that they carry the right kinds and amounts of insurance some there's someone who can payout when there's an issue.

Airbnb simply sidesteps a lot of this, no matter how much you try to address specific, individual issues raised above.
 
2023-01-26 3:06:07 PM  
About a decade ago when Airbnb started, I was a big fan. Now, it seems like there's a confrontation between guests and hosts. Guests abuse the Airbnb system and destroy things and hosts abuse the legal system to use existing residential inventory to charge more.

I think Airbnb has to go back to its original roots of being an "airbed and breakfast" offering. One guest at a time. Sleeps on an airbed in the living room of the unit the host owns or rents, but ACTUALLY LIVES THERE. If that's acceptable to both guests and hosts, have at it.

I stayed in Stockholm once for a week in a studio-ish apartment. The hostess literally slept in a nook with curtains to provide privacy for herself while I slept in the bed that she would normally sleep in. That's the Airbnb experience.
 
2023-01-26 3:20:45 PM  

dericwater: About a decade ago when Airbnb started, I was a big fan. Now, it seems like there's a confrontation between guests and hosts. Guests abuse the Airbnb system and destroy things and hosts abuse the legal system to use existing residential inventory to charge more.

I think Airbnb has to go back to its original roots of being an "airbed and breakfast" offering. One guest at a time. Sleeps on an airbed in the living room of the unit the host owns or rents, but ACTUALLY LIVES THERE. If that's acceptable to both guests and hosts, have at it.

I stayed in Stockholm once for a week in a studio-ish apartment. The hostess literally slept in a nook with curtains to provide privacy for herself while I slept in the bed that she would normally sleep in. That's the Airbnb experience.


Dear Penthouse Forum...
 
2023-01-26 3:29:57 PM  
My sister used to do Travel Nursing, my Daughter will start this summer.  AirBnB is a god send to them, They work 6-12 week contracts in different cities. Most AirBnB's are furnished, so while you live that life you just put your crap in your car and move around a lot.    But at the same time, using as a Hotel and not following the laws/ taxes that regular hotels pay isnt fair either.
 
2023-01-26 3:33:45 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: Empty residential properties should be so heavily taxed it makes no sense to hoard them.

/landlords are first against the wall


That's not exactly the issue here.

It is illogical for an owner/investor of a rentable property to not rent it out.  Why would you leave money on the table like that?

It simply doesn't happen, at least not en masse.

Now, I am not counting the following as "empty":

1. Rich people's second/third/tenth homes, where somebody lives but much less than the majority of the time.  This has always been a thing that happens.  I suppose you could increase taxes on these too, but this is different from "investor owns a property and doesn't rent it".

2. Properties that are in the process of being rented or sold, or are empty but offered for such.  This can take months, sometimes years, especially if things like probate are in the equation.

3. Properties that are not in liveable condition.  Not everybody has enough money to instantly fix things.

4. Properties that are being fixed up or remodeled.

The percentage of properties that are empty and not in one of the above categories is a very, very small number indeed.
 
2023-01-26 3:44:11 PM  
if there is a god, we can rest assured that all landlords go to hell. Landlord can only be a dirty word to describe a-moral inhuman jack rag drips, it just simply means,

Landlord:  someone who will let a child be homeless if they are not profitable enough.

yeah ain't no redeeming qualities to be found anywhere after that up front one is established.
 
2023-01-26 4:01:12 PM  

Geotpf: Giant Clown Shoe: Empty residential properties should be so heavily taxed it makes no sense to hoard them.

/landlords are first against the wall

That's not exactly the issue here.

It is illogical for an owner/investor of a rentable property to not rent it out.  Why would you leave money on the table like that?

It simply doesn't happen, at least not en masse.

Now, I am not counting the following as "empty":

1. Rich people's second/third/tenth homes, where somebody lives but much less than the majority of the time.  This has always been a thing that happens.  I suppose you could increase taxes on these too, but this is different from "investor owns a property and doesn't rent it".

2. Properties that are in the process of being rented or sold, or are empty but offered for such.  This can take months, sometimes years, especially if things like probate are in the equation.

3. Properties that are not in liveable condition.  Not everybody has enough money to instantly fix things.

4. Properties that are being fixed up or remodeled.

The percentage of properties that are empty and not in one of the above categories is a very, very small number indeed.


A bold claim with no data.
 
2023-01-26 4:09:06 PM  
I have a feeling that a lot of these are "Arbitrage" rentals where someone rents an apartment and then lists it on AirBnB.  You don't get the actual address or unit number and have to pick up the key from somewhere else.

There are tons of FB groups and other groups that cater to these "hustles" and even in the  legit groups I am seeing people complain when they have to "follow the rules" like "what's the big deal?"
 
2023-01-26 4:25:11 PM  
Good, airbnb and similar companies are a big reason for the rental crisis, others should definitely emulate NY's law
 
2023-01-26 4:33:04 PM  
Airbnb is an illegal hotel operation that had enough VC money to hire enough lawyers to circumvent the law.

Same with Uber and taxi regulations.
 
2023-01-26 5:21:02 PM  

edmo: I've suggested in the past that residences only be owned by actual residents. The counter arguments were predictable, debatable, and yet not wrong.

How is this different? Isn't the city depriving someone of fair use?


If by fair use you're implying that the land for which the property was zoned for is being used for its designated purpose under zoning code, then no, denying a property owner the ability to rent out their property for short-term rentals because it goes against the idea of the zoning code isn't depriving them at all.

We have a serious housing crisis in this country right now. The fact that valuable units (many of them apartments) are being bought up for the specific purpose of extracting profit from them-- while so many others are sleeping in their cars or on the street-- is absolutely unconscionable.
 
2023-01-26 6:04:04 PM  

baron von doodle: Geotpf: Giant Clown Shoe: Empty residential properties should be so heavily taxed it makes no sense to hoard them.

/landlords are first against the wall

That's not exactly the issue here.

It is illogical for an owner/investor of a rentable property to not rent it out.  Why would you leave money on the table like that?

It simply doesn't happen, at least not en masse.

Now, I am not counting the following as "empty":

1. Rich people's second/third/tenth homes, where somebody lives but much less than the majority of the time.  This has always been a thing that happens.  I suppose you could increase taxes on these too, but this is different from "investor owns a property and doesn't rent it".

2. Properties that are in the process of being rented or sold, or are empty but offered for such.  This can take months, sometimes years, especially if things like probate are in the equation.

3. Properties that are not in liveable condition.  Not everybody has enough money to instantly fix things.

4. Properties that are being fixed up or remodeled.

The percentage of properties that are empty and not in one of the above categories is a very, very small number indeed.

A bold claim with no data.


You didn't necessarily provide data yourself, but I was curious about this too.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/11/22/the-nations-vacant-homes-present-an-opportunity-and-a-problem

This looks like fairly reputable data, and it makes no argument for the majority of vacant homes being landlords just...sitting on them for no apparent reason.

It certainly points out that in places people actually want to live, vacancy rates correlate to an expected lower value.

If you believe the majority of vacant housing is habitable, desired, and simply not being rented out, can you provide that data you based your belief off of?
 
2023-01-26 6:50:26 PM  

Geotpf: Now, I am not counting the following as "empty":

1. Rich people's second/third/tenth homes


Fark user imageView Full Size


gottcha. now, please just face the wall...
 
2023-01-26 7:21:35 PM  
This is how it always should have been. That's the whole point of having zoning laws and regulations around things like hotels.
 
2023-01-26 8:08:51 PM  

drewsfarkthrowaway: edmo: .

I had to have police come crack down at least once a week for trash, parties, noise, fights, and other various disturbances (vehicle damage, unlawful entry, ect).


I've seen plenty of that from my long term neighbors who own their homes while those merely renting are worse.

Arguing short term rentals should be held to hotel standards fails because they aren't hotels. They generally don't have any amenities, maid service, etc.

Believe me, I'm onboard with fixing the shortage of affordable hosing and I've argued letting people/companies buy up homes to rent them out is part of the problem. Whether rentals are short or long term does not affect the shortage problem and I doubt new rules would either. They'll just transition to renting long term.

So if we're still not willing to ban owners/investors from renting their homes, fine. It respects private property ownership.  But when it comes to restrictions, apply the same standard whether it's short or long term.
 
2023-01-26 9:07:36 PM  

edmo: So if we're still not willing to ban owners/investors from renting their homes, fine. It respects private property ownership. But when it comes to restrictions, apply the same standard whether it's short or long term.


If you don't think there's a difference between short and long term rentals, you've never lived next to a short term rental.
 
2023-01-26 9:46:53 PM  

trialpha: edmo: So if we're still not willing to ban owners/investors from renting their homes, fine. It respects private property ownership. But when it comes to restrictions, apply the same standard whether it's short or long term.

If you don't think there's a difference between short and long term rentals, you've never lived next to a short term rental.


Short term rentals are the entire problem.

In just one week of renting nightly, an owner can rake in what they would usually earn from renting on a month-to-month basis.

I'm not against the owner making more money, except that when it comes time to buy this home, the guy with tyevplan to earn several times regular monthly rental income will be able to outbid the regular hardworking families, every time.

All of this, at a time we have a shortage or affordable housing.

Nope, that ain't right. Every citizens looking for longterm shelter come first, always.

When vacancy rates are incredibly high. sure lets allow yearly renewal licenses for short term rentals, which can be refused renewal if vacancy rates go too low.

In the meantime, as somebody upthread said, the only Airbnb's that should be allowed are those renting within the residence of a live-in owner (i.e., only in yhe owner's principal residence, not investment properties)
 
2023-01-27 12:15:37 AM  

AmbassadorBooze: edmo: I've suggested in the past that residences only be owned by actual residents. The counter arguments were predictable, debatable, and yet not wrong.

How is this different? Isn't the city depriving someone of fair use?

We need to get rid of the idea of fair use.  There is no more wilderness we can legally migrate to, and start our own society.  All land is claimed by a nation.  And they have laid out rules for claiming land on the moon or mars.  There is no place for people to go where hard work can free them from the people who already own everything.  Therefore we need to eliminate the idea of ownership, in the advancement of equity.

Yes, it will suck for the owner caste.  But it sucks currently for the worker caste.  Something will suck.  I am worker caste.  I would rather things suck for the owner caste.  When the owners become workers, they will be on the bottom of the ladder since they will be weak and not trained in work.  They will have to suffer.  The equilibrium will be adjusted.

Problem solved.


I liked that one. ❤
 
2023-01-27 1:00:12 PM  
When I worked for a hospitality company I was told something like 80% of the STR's in Nashville were illegal.  The problem was the market came before intense regulation and most cities were ill equipped to do anything about them at first.

There were also opportunists who scammed the system as well which compounded the problem.  IMO, some of the AirBnB's I've stayed in have been great, others have been horrible, nowadays I usually just choose hotels.
 
Displayed 27 of 27 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.