Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   US transition to electric cars will have dire environmental consequences unless the dependence on cars in towns and cities falls drastically. So I guess we shouldn't bother then. ROLL COAL   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Lithium, Sustainable transport, Battery, Transport, Automobile, Public transport, much lithium, Public transport timetable  
•       •       •

2156 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2023 at 4:50 PM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



200 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2023-01-24 4:52:48 PM  
Sad that even the Guardian is on the Big Oil payroll.

/Lithium batteries will have gone away LONG before 2050
 
2023-01-24 4:53:23 PM  
You need lithium? Salton Sea say "Hi!"
 
2023-01-24 4:55:49 PM  
In the 70's, the Boston Globe printed an article saying we would be in a new ice age by 2000, due to all of the smog & pollution blocking the sunlight.
Now, we have "global warming" "climate change" climate emergency!  There is even talk in some circles of
seeding clouds with chemicals to "block out" some sunlight to bring global temperatures down.


50 years of incorrect "science" data
 
2023-01-24 4:56:13 PM  
Sodium-ion batteries rub their hands together gleefully.

"Any day now...."
 
2023-01-24 4:56:22 PM  
[It warns that unless the US's dependence on cars in towns and cities falls drastically...]

Good luck with that.
 
2023-01-24 4:56:24 PM  
I look at all the empty car charging stations at the local Target and always ask myself...."One day all of these will be filled with cars charging up. Wonder where they are?"
 
2023-01-24 4:56:49 PM  

leviosaurus: You need lithium? Salton Sea say "Hi!"


As does Maine. (source)
 
2023-01-24 4:58:42 PM  
This is exactly what Kurt Cobain was trying to warn us about in this song:

Nirvana - Lithium
Youtube kgpSzdON2CE


Or, at least I assume it's what he was saying.  I'm not really a big lyrics person.  And he kind of mumbled a lot.  But, still, I'm pretty sure it's what he was on about.
 
2023-01-24 4:59:57 PM  
You know what else is will have dire environmental consequences?

Using gas farking cars forever.
 
2023-01-24 5:00:31 PM  

steklo: I look at all the empty car charging stations at the local Target and always ask myself...."One day all of these will be filled with cars charging up. Wonder where they are?"


Currently we have a lot of hand wringers that claim that it is simply impossible to find any open chargers and surely in the future it will be impossible to build them fast enough to meet demand
 
2023-01-24 5:01:05 PM  
US transition to electric internal combustion cars will have dire environmental consequences unless the dependence on cars horses in towns and cities falls drastically. So I guess we shouldn't bother then. ROLL COAL OATS
 
2023-01-24 5:02:02 PM  
*Le sigh*

Fark user imageView Full Size


"Less-- wait, no I don't get it.  Do you mean 'fewer'"?  Like fewer gas cars?  Because I can't quite--you mean like we just do less, and buy less, and that's--I don't really get it.  Like I have less kids?"
 
2023-01-24 5:03:00 PM  

p51d007: In the 70's, the Boston Globe printed an article saying we would be in a new ice age by 2000, due to all of the smog & pollution blocking the sunlight.
Now, we have "global warming" "climate change" climate emergency!  There is even talk in some circles of
seeding clouds with chemicals to "block out" some sunlight to bring global temperatures down.


50 years of incorrect "science" data


What year did science stop being right and start being wrong?
When is science allowed to revise old incorrect hypotheses and theories? According to you, not at all.

Nevermind all of the Ice Age talk was a minority and quickly disproven "theory" at the time.

Please tell us what theory means. Did you know gravity is just a theory?

You should be embarrassed and I'm embarrassed for you because you don't realize you should be embarrassed at such incredible dumbness.
 
2023-01-24 5:03:09 PM  
Bicycles don't need rare earths or gasoline.
 
2023-01-24 5:03:41 PM  
I mean ... yeah, we need way better mass transit and more walkable neighborhoods, too.
 
2023-01-24 5:04:07 PM  

steklo: I look at all the empty car charging stations at the local Target and always ask myself...."One day all of these will be filled with cars charging up. Wonder where they are?"


I've been trying to find a plug in hybrid since last summer. Sales people don't even call back as there's no supply to be had.
 
2023-01-24 5:05:14 PM  

steklo: I look at all the empty car charging stations at the local Target and always ask myself...."One day all of these will be filled with cars charging up. Wonder where they are?"


They will be filled up once two things happen, electric cars become cheaper and battery charging to full takes 5 minutes or less (just like a trip to the gas station). Gasoline will become obsolete at that point, but I am sure Republicans will find a way to make it illegal or otherwise unfeasible to transition to electric cars after the oil company bribes come through for the upcoming years.
 
2023-01-24 5:05:19 PM  

Fano: Currently we have a lot of hand wringers that claim that it is simply impossible to find any open chargers and surely in the future it will be impossible to build them fast enough to meet demand


How do charging costs work out if you don't have a dedicated charging point at home and have to use charging points in public parking lots?

It seems to me that at present, electric vehicles are only really viable for people who own their own single family home where they have a dedicated parking spot that they park in every night, and can have an electrician come to their home and install a dedicated charging point.  If you live in an apartment in the city and park on the street, or in an apartment or condo complex and park in a shared parking lot, no charging point for you.
 
2023-01-24 5:06:35 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: US transition to electric internal combustion cars will have dire environmental consequences unless the dependence on cars horses in towns and cities falls drastically. So I guess we shouldn't bother then. ROLL COAL OATS


In all seriousness, cars were seen as a godsend because city streets at the turn of the 20th century were knee deep in horse crap and horse carcasses.  Of course, every solution begets its own problems.
 
2023-01-24 5:06:54 PM  
Global warming is the most in our face part of our bad environmental stewardship but of course it's far from the only issue. Thanks, the Guardian, for pointing out the obvious.

I think every single electric car discussion on the planet now has someone interjecting how terrible electric cars ackshully are at this point. Yes, that's at least partly because they're cars, and having a lot of cars is bad. Yes, an entire ecosystem of YouTube channels exists talking about this constantly, with names like "Not Just Bikes". We know.

And yes, lithium chemistry batteries are already planned to be replaced with sodium. A lot of things are gonna change.
 
2023-01-24 5:08:07 PM  
FTFA:

"No matter what path it chooses, the US will achieve zero emission transportation by 2050 ..."

Bwahaha. There's no way ALL vehicles will be zero emission. Maybe new vehicles but not ALL vehicles.
 
2023-01-24 5:08:13 PM  
We're going to need to mine and find ways to be more responsible about it. But it would certainly help if we had better mass transit, less sprawl, etc etc. We're not going to survive this mess as a species without significant societal/economic upheaval and lots of growing pains because we couldn't be bothered to actually make incremental progress over the past several decades. So the only question is whether we're going to do what is necessary for survival of the species and, hopefully, civil society. And we need to act now. Unfortunately, the people that have the most to lose don't have any voice or say in the matter, while the people who COULD turn the ship around don't really want to because that would be inconvenient for them.

Glad I don't have kids.

If there are any Farkers out there who aren't eligible to vote yet ... we tried. A lot of us tried. It wasn't enough.
 
2023-01-24 5:08:25 PM  
Isn't The Guardian UK owned?

I get a chuckle whenever a European says "you just need to drive less and use mass transit." There are places in this country where you would travel across 5 different countries in the EU to and still be in the same state here in the US.

Texas is the obvious example, but there are plenty of others.

I work from home, but when I drove into the office, it was from one suburb to another, no mass transit to speak of. The distance was roughly the the same as Brussels to Antwerp in Belgium, and I wasn't the longest commute; in fact I was on the low side of average.
 
2023-01-24 5:08:32 PM  

geekbikerskum: Fano: Currently we have a lot of hand wringers that claim that it is simply impossible to find any open chargers and surely in the future it will be impossible to build them fast enough to meet demand

How do charging costs work out if you don't have a dedicated charging point at home and have to use charging points in public parking lots?

It seems to me that at present, electric vehicles are only really viable for people who own their own single family home where they have a dedicated parking spot that they park in every night, and can have an electrician come to their home and install a dedicated charging point.  If you live in an apartment in the city and park on the street, or in an apartment or condo complex and park in a shared parking lot, no charging point for you.


I would guess that charging stations at apartment/condo complexes will become a selling point in the not too distant future.
 
2023-01-24 5:08:40 PM  

geekbikerskum: Barricaded Gunman: US transition to electric internal combustion cars will have dire environmental consequences unless the dependence on cars horses in towns and cities falls drastically. So I guess we shouldn't bother then. ROLL COAL OATS

In all seriousness, cars were seen as a godsend because city streets at the turn of the 20th century were knee deep in horse crap and horse carcasses.  Of course, every solution begets its own problems.


"Progress: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
 
2023-01-24 5:09:01 PM  

geekbikerskum: Fano: Currently we have a lot of hand wringers that claim that it is simply impossible to find any open chargers and surely in the future it will be impossible to build them fast enough to meet demand

How do charging costs work out if you don't have a dedicated charging point at home and have to use charging points in public parking lots?

It seems to me that at present, electric vehicles are only really viable for people who own their own single family home where they have a dedicated parking spot that they park in every night, and can have an electrician come to their home and install a dedicated charging point.  If you live in an apartment in the city and park on the street, or in an apartment or condo complex and park in a shared parking lot, no charging point for you.


In that case you should be using public transportation or a bike.
 
2023-01-24 5:09:23 PM  
Seems like a lot of the lithium is recyclable.  So... hopefully things don't end up too dire.
 
2023-01-24 5:10:33 PM  

p51d007: In the 70's, the Boston Globe printed an article saying we would be in a new ice age by 2000, due to all of the smog & pollution blocking the sunlight.
Now, we have "global warming" "climate change" climate emergency!  There is even talk in some circles of
seeding clouds with chemicals to "block out" some sunlight to bring global temperatures down.


50 years of incorrect "science" data


That some scientists were wrong doesn't mean that all scientists are wrong. The climate models created decades ago are either really nearly correct, or understated the effects. And no, I'm not going to provide the studies because 1) you won't read or believe them, an 2) I'm at the bar drinking palomas, which I went to by bike.

But you can ignore the extreme droughts and extreme weather all you want, shiat's real. Oh, and your link is not a credible source. Post up some peer-reviewed studies that support your stupid right wing BS.
 
2023-01-24 5:11:27 PM  

p51d007: In the 70's, the Boston Globe printed an article saying we would be in a new ice age by 2000, due to all of the smog & pollution blocking the sunlight.
Now, we have "global warming" "climate change" climate emergency!  There is even talk in some circles of
seeding clouds with chemicals to "block out" some sunlight to bring global temperatures down.


50 years of incorrect "science" data


You've got one article against over a century of observations?

media.snopes.comView Full Size


Do you deny that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?
 
2023-01-24 5:12:02 PM  
So here's the plan. We all draw straws to see who gets to live and who gets to die. While everyone is drawing straws, the elite throw us into a giant mulcher and use our remains to fuel the megayachts. Eventually, they die off because nobody is left that can actually do anything. Humanity dies, and the earth recovers.
 
2023-01-24 5:12:08 PM  

steklo: I look at all the empty car charging stations at the local Target and always ask myself...."One day all of these will be filled with cars charging up. Wonder where they are?"


Charged at home, overnight, with Level 2 charger. I've owned an electric car for a year and never have used a public charger.
 
2023-01-24 5:12:16 PM  

thealgorerhythm: Bicycles don't need rare earths or gasoline.


Sure, let me just make that 16-mile commute on a bicycle during the Georgia summer.

I did a ~10 mile commute on a bicycle in South Florida a couple times.  During the non-cool months it took me a good half hour to cool down before i could even think of getting in a shower.  If i didn't cool down first the second i got out of the shower I'd start sweating again.  Repeat for the commute home.  Easily an extra 90 minutes just for not wanting to be a puddle of stink, on top of the commute itself taking 4 times as long.

You know what doesn't need rare earths or magnets?  Working from home like i am now.
 
2023-01-24 5:12:57 PM  
They'll soon be able to mine lithium from medical patients, so don't worry.
 
2023-01-24 5:13:10 PM  
Batteries are so bad for the environments in the countries that mine the rare earth minerals. Sure, US cities will be smog free but think of what that costs places like China and Afghanistan?

Woke Conservatives know it's Earth First! Not American first!
 
2023-01-24 5:13:34 PM  
Drone delivery of small items weighing less than 5 kg would eliminate whole classes of automobile traffic.

And with that barrier removed, people would probably buy more stuff.  I know I would.

The airspace below 300 feet AGL is already off limits to aircraft in most cases.  It's perfect for drones.

All we need is for the FAA to start controlling drone traffic and we're there.
 
2023-01-24 5:14:30 PM  

RyansPrivates: Isn't The Guardian UK owned?

I get a chuckle whenever a European says "you just need to drive less and use mass transit." There are places in this country where you would travel across 5 different countries in the EU to and still be in the same state here in the US.

Texas is the obvious example, but there are plenty of others.

I work from home, but when I drove into the office, it was from one suburb to another, no mass transit to speak of. The distance was roughly the the same as Brussels to Antwerp in Belgium, and I wasn't the longest commute; in fact I was on the low side of average.


In fairness, the article isn't just saying "use mass transit," it's also saying "invest in mass transit."
 
2023-01-24 5:14:50 PM  
I live in NePa. There is exactly 1 supercharging station with multiple plugs. I had 2 Tesla Model X P100ds. They claim you can charge them them fron 1/4 to full in undet an hour. My best experience was  closer to 2 hours.. usually 1.75 hours. What is going to happen when there are a lot more evs on the road? What about CA and TX that can't even provide enough electricity for heat and ac as it is?
 
2023-01-24 5:15:29 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: steklo: I look at all the empty car charging stations at the local Target and always ask myself...."One day all of these will be filled with cars charging up. Wonder where they are?"

They will be filled up once two things happen, electric cars become cheaper and battery charging to full takes 5 minutes or less (just like a trip to the gas station). Gasoline will become obsolete at that point, but I am sure Republicans will find a way to make it illegal or otherwise unfeasible to transition to electric cars after the oil company bribes come through for the upcoming years.


I don't need charging to take 5 minutes, because I don't have to stand there while it's happening.

Even on long road trips I like to stop for other things, for lengths of time that should be plenty for getting enough charge to reach my next stop (which is a far more reasonable metric than the time to charge to 100%).
 
2023-01-24 5:15:50 PM  

BunchaRubes: thealgorerhythm: Bicycles don't need rare earths or gasoline.

Sure, let me just make that 16-mile commute on a bicycle during the Georgia summer.

I did a ~10 mile commute on a bicycle in South Florida a couple times.  During the non-cool months it took me a good half hour to cool down before i could even think of getting in a shower.  If i didn't cool down first the second i got out of the shower I'd start sweating again.  Repeat for the commute home.  Easily an extra 90 minutes just for not wanting to be a puddle of stink, on top of the commute itself taking 4 times as long.

You know what doesn't need rare earths or magnets?  Working from home like i am now.


You are not working at home, you are living at work.
 
2023-01-24 5:18:51 PM  

thealgorerhythm: Bicycles don't need rare earths or gasoline.


What about earths that have never been done before?

pedalcover.co.ukView Full Size
 
2023-01-24 5:20:18 PM  

eddie_irvine: p51d007: In the 70's, the Boston Globe printed an article saying we would be in a new ice age by 2000, due to all of the smog & pollution blocking the sunlight.
Now, we have "global warming" "climate change" climate emergency!  There is even talk in some circles of
seeding clouds with chemicals to "block out" some sunlight to bring global temperatures down.


50 years of incorrect "science" data

That some scientists were wrong doesn't mean that all scientists are wrong. The climate models created decades ago are either really nearly correct, or understated the effects. And no, I'm not going to provide the studies because 1) you won't read or believe them, an 2) I'm at the bar drinking palomas, which I went to by bike.

But you can ignore the extreme droughts and extreme weather all you want, shiat's real. Oh, and your link is not a credible source. Post up some peer-reviewed studies that support your stupid right wing BS.


Can you breath what comes out the ass end of your car? No. It's bad. Simple.
 
2023-01-24 5:20:23 PM  

lilbjorn: Sad that even the Guardian is on the Big Oil payroll.

/Lithium batteries will have gone away LONG before 2050


The argument in the Farking Article was more along the lines of "People need to take a bus or ride a bike, even if all vehicles are electric".
 
2023-01-24 5:21:30 PM  

p51d007: In the 70's, the Boston Globe printed an article saying we would be in a new ice age by 2000, due to all of the smog & pollution blocking the sunlight.


You know what also happened in the 70s? We passed The Clean Air Act.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2023-01-24 5:23:33 PM  

someonelse: RyansPrivates: Isn't The Guardian UK owned?

I get a chuckle whenever a European says "you just need to drive less and use mass transit." There are places in this country where you would travel across 5 different countries in the EU to and still be in the same state here in the US.

Texas is the obvious example, but there are plenty of others.

I work from home, but when I drove into the office, it was from one suburb to another, no mass transit to speak of. The distance was roughly the the same as Brussels to Antwerp in Belgium, and I wasn't the longest commute; in fact I was on the low side of average.

In fairness, the article isn't just saying "use mass transit," it's also saying "invest in mass transit."


Yeah, I read Ryan's comment as a perfect argument for rail.
 
2023-01-24 5:24:14 PM  

someonelse: geekbikerskum: Fano: Currently we have a lot of hand wringers that claim that it is simply impossible to find any open chargers and surely in the future it will be impossible to build them fast enough to meet demand

How do charging costs work out if you don't have a dedicated charging point at home and have to use charging points in public parking lots?

It seems to me that at present, electric vehicles are only really viable for people who own their own single family home where they have a dedicated parking spot that they park in every night, and can have an electrician come to their home and install a dedicated charging point.  If you live in an apartment in the city and park on the street, or in an apartment or condo complex and park in a shared parking lot, no charging point for you.

I would guess that charging stations at apartment/condo complexes will become a selling point in the not too distant future.


Most likely but of course apparently if they aren't rolled out 100% for free today I guess it's never worth doing and we should all just drive Hummer's around.
 
2023-01-24 5:24:25 PM  
So, maybe if we started thinking of the US as being like travelling around all of Europe (it's at least as large, and based on how the states are divvied up and the way state governments vs. the federal government, it's a much closer and more accurate analogy), we can start figuring out that we need to focus on revamping the more populated sectors and areas with the heaviest traffic, etc. and then worry about the small towns out in BFE.
 
2023-01-24 5:25:13 PM  

someonelse: I mean ... yeah, we need way better mass transit and more walkable neighborhoods, too.


hoveround.comView Full Size
 
2023-01-24 5:25:43 PM  

puckrock2000: p51d007: In the 70's, the Boston Globe printed an article saying we would be in a new ice age by 2000, due to all of the smog & pollution blocking the sunlight.

You know what also happened in the 70s? We passed The Clean Air Act.

[Fark user image 600x332]


people switched from weed and cigarettes to cleaner, healthier cocaine, heroine, and crack, thus producing far less smoke?
 
2023-01-24 5:27:24 PM  

JessieL: DarkSoulNoHope: steklo: I look at all the empty car charging stations at the local Target and always ask myself...."One day all of these will be filled with cars charging up. Wonder where they are?"

They will be filled up once two things happen, electric cars become cheaper and battery charging to full takes 5 minutes or less (just like a trip to the gas station). Gasoline will become obsolete at that point, but I am sure Republicans will find a way to make it illegal or otherwise unfeasible to transition to electric cars after the oil company bribes come through for the upcoming years.

I don't need charging to take 5 minutes, because I don't have to stand there while it's happening.

Even on long road trips I like to stop for other things, for lengths of time that should be plenty for getting enough charge to reach my next stop (which is a far more reasonable metric than the time to charge to 100%).


Not everyone has a home charging station (especially apartments), so once people who can't currently afford electric cars can afford it and once charging is faster, then charging stations at Target and other places will be more widespread.
 
2023-01-24 5:27:49 PM  

lilbjorn: Sad that even the Guardian is on the Big Oil payroll.

/Lithium batteries will have gone away LONG before 2050


Probably replaced by something even more environmentally destructive.  But hey, as long as the destruction happens in a Third World country, it's all good, right?
 
Displayed 50 of 200 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.