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(Game Rant)   Dungeons and Dragons players are revolting   (gamerant.com) divider line
289
    More: Awkward, Dungeons & Dragons, D&D Beyond website, Dragons players, Wizards of the Coast, D&D, D&D Beyond, Dragonlance, D&D Beyond's website  
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5416 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2023 at 3:04 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



289 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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I Ate Shergar [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-13 12:56:07 PM  
y.yarn.coView Full Size

/oblig
 
gunga galunga [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 1:01:41 PM  
Wow.

WotC sucks.
 
Irving Maimway [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-13 1:08:42 PM  
I canceled my subscription last night. Fark this kind of farkery, and WoTC won't ultimately change.
 
HallsOfMandos [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 1:12:50 PM  
Not all of them

thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
Znuh [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-13 1:40:51 PM  
One of my Friends, Savan, summarized it up really well:

"So to those of you confused or perplexed, by the INFERNO of rage consuming the D&D fandom right now. I'll summarize as best I can.

Market Leader dominates marketplace. Gets fat and lazy. Makes critical errors. Folds like a house of cards. Gets bought by young, spunky company with big creative ideas who swings in as a market-disruptor in [insert fandom genre here]. Becomes the new market leader.

Contrary to filthy hippies, big business CAN be good for artists, so there is prosperity for some time. New Market Leader issues a statement or series of initiatives that SEEM like good faith gestures, dedicated to appeasing old wounds and addressing the sins of yesteryear.

This then flips around or is very quickly proven hypocritical posturing.

Long term observers note this, yet are repeatedly yelled down by Shills and Enthusiasts who despise truth tellers ruining their little tea party. Market leader progresses and grows fat off the greedy consumption of said community, and lazy. Quality of product suffers, and they may even create their own marketplace competitors in their idiocy.

Then, after a modern boom due to external factors, they get cocky, hire a bunch of Tech Bros or others of "dubious expertise" from COMPLETELY different markets/industries, who win OLYMPIAN GOLD MEDALS in Gymnastics and Contortion, for misunderstanding the product, the community and the assignment.

Bloated Corpse of that formerly scrappy ingenuity driven company sticks their WHOLE foot in it again, with a move that violates two decades of a social contract and is a Herculean overreach, disenfranchising generations of artists and creatives.

The Community Unites in outrage, save for a vocal minority of company shills, and one or two new Major Competitors are created overnight."
 
ThomasPaineTrain [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 1:57:10 PM  
Now, another anonymous insider has shared a shocking email from within Wizards of the Coast. According to the message, higher-ups at Wizards of the Coast are delaying the rollout of the new OGL because of the backlash from Dungeons and Dragons fans. That said, it currently has no intention to change its plans, and is counting on players forgetting their grievances.

Yeah, because players dedicated to one game have short memories and never hold grudges.
 
OldRod [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-13 2:05:55 PM  
After watching a lot of Critical Role lately, I was getting the itch to try and find an online game to join, and was about to join D&D Beyond.  Well, so much for that!
 
optikeye [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 2:23:18 PM  

Znuh: One of my Friends, Savan, summarized it up really well:

"So to those of you confused or perplexed, by the INFERNO of rage consuming the D&D fandom right now. I'll summarize as best I can.

Market Leader dominates marketplace. Gets fat and lazy. Makes critical errors. Folds like a house of cards. Gets bought by young, spunky company with big creative ideas who swings in as a market-disruptor in [insert fandom genre here]. Becomes the new market leader.

Contrary to filthy hippies, big business CAN be good for artists, so there is prosperity for some time. New Market Leader issues a statement or series of initiatives that SEEM like good faith gestures, dedicated to appeasing old wounds and addressing the sins of yesteryear.

This then flips around or is very quickly proven hypocritical posturing.

Long term observers note this, yet are repeatedly yelled down by Shills and Enthusiasts who despise truth tellers ruining their little tea party. Market leader progresses and grows fat off the greedy consumption of said community, and lazy. Quality of product suffers, and they may even create their own marketplace competitors in their idiocy.

Then, after a modern boom due to external factors, they get cocky, hire a bunch of Tech Bros or others of "dubious expertise" from COMPLETELY different markets/industries, who win OLYMPIAN GOLD MEDALS in Gymnastics and Contortion, for misunderstanding the product, the community and the assignment.

Bloated Corpse of that formerly scrappy ingenuity driven company sticks their WHOLE foot in it again, with a move that violates two decades of a social contract and is a Herculean overreach, disenfranchising generations of artists and creatives.

The Community Unites in outrage, save for a vocal minority of company shills, and one or two new Major Competitors are created overnight."


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
greentea1985 [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 2:35:53 PM  

ThomasPaineTrain: Now, another anonymous insider has shared a shocking email from within Wizards of the Coast. According to the message, higher-ups at Wizards of the Coast are delaying the rollout of the new OGL because of the backlash from Dungeons and Dragons fans. That said, it currently has no intention to change its plans, and is counting on players forgetting their grievances.

Yeah, because players dedicated to one game have short memories and never hold grudges.


Right. Players who can organize decades-long campaigns or have characters they have played for years will have short memories. That is such a cunning plan /s. RPG fans are dedicated, so when you screw them over or turn out a crappy product, you get competition. The whole reason Pathfinder became a popular system was that D&D 4th edition was so awful that people were looking for a new version that fixed the flaws in 3rd and 3.5 but didn't have the flaws 4th edition had. Pathfinder was OGL but has all but declared they are reworking things so they don't have to use the OGL.

It's like Hasbro-owned WotC forgot that the more people play RPGs in general, the more customers they have. D&D is a big name in the industry because it was one of if not the first  RPG created and it's a pretty well-rounded system. It may have flaws, but it is a decent entry point for people interested in RPGs. The fan-made content authorized by the OGL just made RPGs in general and D&D, in particular, more popular. People might buy stuff from Critical Role or other major live players, but they are also often buying the original D&D manuals to play the game itself. It's so stupid and shortsighted. Instead of growing the pie, WotC is trying to grab a bigger piece of the pie and might just end up smashing it in the struggle.
 
Weaver95
2023-01-13 3:06:42 PM  
Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions
 
PirateKing [OhFark]
2023-01-13 3:08:59 PM  
And to think I was about to go to all the trouble of meeting people and becoming friends and starting a regular RPG session.

What a sucker.
 
Rent Party
2023-01-13 3:09:09 PM  
I don't play, but I have friends that do and they are all way up in arms over whatever this is.
 
BafflerMeal
2023-01-13 3:09:20 PM  
What do you think was going to happen?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
MurphyMurphy
2023-01-13 3:09:48 PM  
i just rub some old spice on the ass of my jeans
 
starsrift
2023-01-13 3:10:10 PM  
I'm not sure what the end-game is here.

Either you're leaving WotC for Paizo or other companies, or trying to teach them a lesson. But, "teaching them a lesson" seems to involve unsubbing from D&DB and then... subscribing again later? So, when everyone's subscribed again, that's when they'll pull their ridiculousness with the licensing?

Like I said, I don't see an end-game. Other than switching to another game and just swearing off of D&D. Which honestly, is probably a good idea - but then just go do it. What's this farting around to see if they capitulate, business?
 
Farkenhostile
2023-01-13 3:10:11 PM  
th.bing.comView Full Size
.
 
Gleeman [BareFark]
2023-01-13 3:11:07 PM  
Sooooo...people had to subscribe to play PnP D&D? Wut?


NoIdeaWhatsGoingOn.jpg
 
Cyclometh [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 3:11:24 PM  

Weaver95: Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions


That's a funny way of saying they're going to wait until the ruckus dies down, tweak the update in meaningless ways and publish iat anyway.
 
Theeng
2023-01-13 3:11:27 PM  

Weaver95: Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions


There's been leaks from inside the company that they're still planning on doing it, just gonna wait for the heat to die down.

I'm close friends with an artist who is hired to work on a lot of tabletop books, including 3rd party stuff for DnD.  This shiat screwed a lot of people.
 
Dwedit
2023-01-13 3:11:59 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
dbrunker
2023-01-13 3:12:42 PM  
Maybe I'd use the term "nerdy" but isn't calling them revolting a little harsh?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Nurglitch
2023-01-13 3:12:56 PM  
What I don't get is how someone managed to monetize the game of make-believe in the first place.
 
Weaver95
2023-01-13 3:13:02 PM  

Cyclometh: Weaver95: Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions

That's a funny way of saying they're going to wait until the ruckus dies down, tweak the update in meaningless ways and publish iat anyway.


You aren't very familiar with the DnD community, are you?
 
Weaver95
2023-01-13 3:13:36 PM  

Theeng: Weaver95: Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions

There's been leaks from inside the company that they're still planning on doing it, just gonna wait for the heat to die down.

I'm close friends with an artist who is hired to work on a lot of tabletop books, including 3rd party stuff for DnD.  This shiat screwed a lot of people.


I hope Hasbro is prepared to wait a long long time..
 
Klivian
2023-01-13 3:14:12 PM  

Weaver95: Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions


The only actual change is the removal of the royalty clause. The fair use clauses remain unchanged, as well as their ability to further update the agreement unilaterally later.

I'm sure we'll all be shocked when that royalty info pops back in in version 1.3 that will be released in 30 days when this media coverage ends.
 
Weaver95
2023-01-13 3:14:43 PM  

Nurglitch: What I don't get is how someone managed to monetize the game of make-believe in the first place.


Maps. I suck at drawing them and I'm good with paying for someone else to do all the pretty things for me.
 
starsrift
2023-01-13 3:15:29 PM  

Nurglitch: What I don't get is how someone managed to monetize the game of make-believe in the first place.


I'm absolutely sure you don't need to be so stupid as to have a line traced through history from prehistoric oral heroic tradition to plays to gaming today, and how in every instance until now, those doing the fantasizing were compensated in one way or another.

We can do that if you like. But you're smarter than that.
 
Weaver95
2023-01-13 3:16:24 PM  

Klivian: Weaver95: Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions

The only actual change is the removal of the royalty clause. The fair use clauses remain unchanged, as well as their ability to further update the agreement unilaterally later.

I'm sure we'll all be shocked when that royalty info pops back in in version 1.3 that will be released in 30 days when this media coverage ends.


I have never met a more obsessive user community than the tabletop rpg crowd...
This isn't over, and they're all watching habro very closely right now.

And they'll keep watching. Waiting. Because they're obsessed.
 
skyotter
2023-01-13 3:16:30 PM  
Sigh.
Fark user image
 
Unsung_Hero
2023-01-13 3:17:06 PM  
I guess I've moved beyond rules.  My players have stats and character sheets, and they roll dice... But they're more suggestions and busywork than anything else.

I don't need WotC, every new official rule or documented spell, creature, or item just restricts creativity and fun a little bit more anyway.

Once you've got the basic idea, ditch the books and just play.
 
Snoopys_Root_Beer_Dealer
2023-01-13 3:17:58 PM  
And people were shouting me down when I said I was quitting D+D when v4 came out, because they tied the game to the grid (making it impossible to bring old characters into the game), they dumbed it down, and they brought in game-breaking character races (like the dragon-based character which had a 5d6 fireball at level 1).

Let WotC burn, and Hasbro with it.  Hasbro never turned the entire Avalon Hill line into computer games, they stopped putting out board games like Scrabble, and the stuff they put out was buggy (which they never fixed).  Both of them care only about money, and they deserve to go bankrupt.  They forgot that FUN is what they're selling, and D+D stopped being fun when they lobotomized it in v4.  Fark Hasbro, WotC, and their entire employee base.  They should have jumped ship years ago, instead of working for evil bastards.  Darwin will be served.
 
Nurglitch
2023-01-13 3:19:11 PM  

starsrift: Nurglitch: What I don't get is how someone managed to monetize the game of make-believe in the first place.

I'm absolutely sure you don't need to be so stupid as to have a line traced through history from prehistoric oral heroic tradition to plays to gaming today, and how in every instance until now, those doing the fantasizing were compensated in one way or another.

We can do that if you like. But you're smarter than that.


Am I though. I'll confess to being smart in other ways and enjoying a rich variety of gaming geekdoms, but tabletop RPGs have always left me baffled. Some explanation would be appreciated, if you're willing to provide it.
 
qorkfiend
2023-01-13 3:19:18 PM  

Nurglitch: What I don't get is how someone managed to monetize the game of make-believe in the first place.


Yeah, no one's ever managed to sell anything fictional before
 
Mr.Insightful
2023-01-13 3:19:20 PM  

starsrift: Other than switching to another game and just swearing off of D&D.


Setting aside that plenty of people have done this, you do understand that pencil and paper games don't have to have an online license connection to work, right?

People can keep playing AD&D without sending their owners a dime.

/ p.s. Plenty of people can write scenarios as well using older "open sourced" rulesets too.
 
Gaddiel
2023-01-13 3:20:15 PM  
Today's Opening Arguments covered this. With a few exceptions, it's not nearly as bad as it was originally made out to be. I'll see how it develops.
https://openargs.com/oa675-gizmodos-critical-hit-piece-on-wizards-of-the-coast/
 
qorkfiend
2023-01-13 3:20:24 PM  

Snoopys_Root_Beer_Dealer: And people were shouting me down when I said I was quitting D+D when v4 came out, because they tied the game to the grid (making it impossible to bring old characters into the game), they dumbed it down, and they brought in game-breaking character races (like the dragon-based character which had a 5d6 fireball at level 1).

Let WotC burn, and Hasbro with it.  Hasbro never turned the entire Avalon Hill line into computer games, they stopped putting out board games like Scrabble, and the stuff they put out was buggy (which they never fixed).  Both of them care only about money, and they deserve to go bankrupt.  They forgot that FUN is what they're selling, and D+D stopped being fun when they lobotomized it in v4.  Fark Hasbro, WotC, and their entire employee base.  They should have jumped ship years ago, instead of working for evil bastards.  Darwin will be served.


D&D 4 is such hot garbage
 
Forbidden Doughnut
2023-01-13 3:21:22 PM  
I haven't played D&D in decades, but $5.99 per month for this seems a bit much.  Hasbro seems like a "Neutral Evil" corporation to me!
 
starsrift
2023-01-13 3:21:29 PM  

Nurglitch: starsrift: Nurglitch: What I don't get is how someone managed to monetize the game of make-believe in the first place.

I'm absolutely sure you don't need to be so stupid as to have a line traced through history from prehistoric oral heroic tradition to plays to gaming today, and how in every instance until now, those doing the fantasizing were compensated in one way or another.

We can do that if you like. But you're smarter than that.

Am I though. I'll confess to being smart in other ways and enjoying a rich variety of gaming geekdoms, but tabletop RPGs have always left me baffled. Some explanation would be appreciated, if you're willing to provide it.


It's not really that hard.

A lot of people enjoy stories. A lot of people can imagine their own heroic place (speaking fantastically) in a story. That's not terribly hard. On the other hand, all the other work of coming up with a universe around the story, that's what shamans, bards, playwrights, novelists, game designers, have always gotten paid for. Even when it's somewhat historic! (see: Shakespeare).

There's nothing wrong in throwing a coin to them. As long as they don't try to get all the coins. Then it becomes a problem.
 
2wolves [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 3:21:59 PM  
I made my saving throw against Rules Lawyers long ago when I DMed.  No, you don't have a Level, you have access to certain abilities and capabilities.  Yes, you can try new and interesting things.  Running away is a valid option.  You've been given common lore and knowledge of many adversary's but not everything.  Curses are real and they suck.  Diseases are real they suck.  Have fun storming the castle.
 
DragonIV [BareFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-13 3:22:06 PM  

Weaver95: Klivian: Weaver95: Hasbro has already pulled the OGL update and promised to further review their actions

The only actual change is the removal of the royalty clause. The fair use clauses remain unchanged, as well as their ability to further update the agreement unilaterally later.

I'm sure we'll all be shocked when that royalty info pops back in in version 1.3 that will be released in 30 days when this media coverage ends.

I have never met a more obsessive user community than the tabletop rpg crowd...
This isn't over, and they're all watching habro very closely right now.

And they'll keep watching. Waiting. Because they're obsessed.


Hell, I haven't played in probably four decades and I'm still pissed about this.
 
LoneCoon [TotalFark]
2023-01-13 3:23:14 PM  

ThomasPaineTrain: Now, another anonymous insider has shared a shocking email from within Wizards of the Coast. According to the message, higher-ups at Wizards of the Coast are delaying the rollout of the new OGL because of the backlash from Dungeons and Dragons fans. That said, it currently has no intention to change its plans, and is counting on players forgetting their grievances.

Yeah, because players dedicated to one game have short memories and never hold grudges.


I mean, gamers hold onto grudges as if they were retirement accounts. I still know people bent out of shape because they changed THAC0 rules,
 
Chthonic Echoes [OhFark]
2023-01-13 3:23:28 PM  
I'm actually not sure what D&D brings to the table anymore, IP-wise, other than some weird one-note monsters and a handful of thirty-year-old campaign settings.

The 5e character classes are beautifully balanced (mostly) and the basic rules are lightweight and easy, but after that it's a mess.

Lot of other games out there offering dragons and dungeons, and there are other virtual tabletop options out there.
 
Weaver95
2023-01-13 3:23:47 PM  

Mr.Insightful: starsrift: Other than switching to another game and just swearing off of D&D.

Setting aside that plenty of people have done this, you do understand that pencil and paper games don't have to have an online license connection to work, right?

People can keep playing AD&D without sending their owners a dime.

/ p.s. Plenty of people can write scenarios as well using older "open sourced" rulesets too.


True enough...but look at it this way - 3rd party DnD company and products were basically functioning like minor league baseball. Some people never got out of the minors but still had a decent run. Others make the big league and become super stars. But the minor league feeds players into and focuses interests on the majors....

Hasbro is essentially trying to outlaw minor league baseball, as well as high school varsity baseball and pick up games in the neighborhood. They only want the major league and nothing else.  They're destroying themselves and don't even realize it. They need 3rd party companies to keep them floating.
 
Weatherkiss [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2023-01-13 3:24:17 PM  

Nurglitch: starsrift: Nurglitch: What I don't get is how someone managed to monetize the game of make-believe in the first place.

I'm absolutely sure you don't need to be so stupid as to have a line traced through history from prehistoric oral heroic tradition to plays to gaming today, and how in every instance until now, those doing the fantasizing were compensated in one way or another.

We can do that if you like. But you're smarter than that.

Am I though. I'll confess to being smart in other ways and enjoying a rich variety of gaming geekdoms, but tabletop RPGs have always left me baffled. Some explanation would be appreciated, if you're willing to provide it.


Tabletop RPGs bring structure and order to make believe. Similar to coloring books, it pushes a framework with which to work but otherwise allows the participants to use their imagination. D&D, Pathfinder, Kobold Press, etc. aren't selling imagination. They're selling the structure and order.
 
Snapper Carr
2023-01-13 3:24:46 PM  

Gleeman: Sooooo...people had to subscribe to play PnP D&D? Wut?


NoIdeaWhatsGoingOn.jpg



It's a knock on effect of WOTC trying to squeeze 3rd party publishers for more money.

New license severely disincentivizes 3rd party content which normally wouldn't directly effect players but vanilla 5e is pretty bare bones - most of the good stuff is 3rd party content.  Less 3rd party content = a less enjoyable game experience.
 
UltimaCS
2023-01-13 3:24:51 PM  
*Angry nerd noises*

I'll give another summary:
Dweebs like to play a game called Dungeons & Dragons where they make up their own bedtime stories, and there was a set of rules and expensive dice that dictated how much fun they had. They would draw pictures of their sexy elf rangers and make up some of their own rules, which was fine up until last week. The owners of the original set of rules decided that they get to add whatever rules and art you made yourself, for their own profit. They'll also take a cut if you try to sell any of it yourself. Now the fans are all angry. "Why don't they make a completely different imaginary game?" Because all the other games suck.
 
payattention
2023-01-13 3:25:17 PM  
Now you see why some of us 'old boomers' still play 1st edition AD&D on a table with everyone in the room. Damn buying all new shiat every few years because they can't make the kind of numbers they used to make in the game's heyday. Damn being online and being too structured to be adaptable. I have adjusted the rules of the game to correct issues that have arisen from decades of playing it, rather than being a lazy fark and making someone else do it because thinking is hard. Those of you who want to keep on playing the 'let's release another new edition because the CEOs wants another mansion' game, go ahead. I am laughing my veteran, award winning, Dungeon Mastering Ass off. And, I am not the only one for sure.
 
Last Man on Earth
2023-01-13 3:25:42 PM  

OldRod: After watching a lot of Critical Role lately, I was getting the itch to try and find an online game to join, and was about to join D&D Beyond.  Well, so much for that!


By all means play, totally find a group, just don't subscribe to D&D Beyond or give Hasbro/WotC money to play.
 
shakul
2023-01-13 3:26:35 PM  
Wizards released a revisionist history laden statement on this today
Update on the OGL
 
Moose out front
2023-01-13 3:26:53 PM  

Gleeman: Sooooo...people had to subscribe to play PnP D&D? Wut?


NoIdeaWhatsGoingOn.jpg


Yeah, I'm confused too, and I play DnD all the time.

What's happened exactly? I read Znuh's take but there's so much snark I didn't really understand that either.
 
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