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(The Register)   Support for Windows 7 and 8 closes this week. You're gonna need a bigger boot   (theregister.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Operating system, legacy versions of Windows, Microsoft Windows, Windows Server 2008, Extended Security Update, Windows Vista, Microsoft, Windows NT  
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407 clicks; posted to STEM » on 10 Jan 2023 at 8:54 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



28 Comments     (+0 »)
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2023-01-10 9:32:10 PM  
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide

So 1/7 users won't get patches against exploits that can affect other versions, too. Sounds like a sound decision.
 
2023-01-10 9:36:36 PM  
Just imagine the few people who went from Vista, to Win 8, and waited until the jump to Win 11. LOL.
 
2023-01-10 9:45:13 PM  
Meh, I was on 7 for a very long time, but 10 has been pretty good for me, especially after reverting some stuff back to 7ish. Can't turn off that prompt for installing 11 though. I'll probably be on 10 for awhile to come.
 
2023-01-10 9:55:35 PM  
No biggie.

CSB: I recently walked away from a company that still had mission critical systems running XP because they never bothered to upgrade desktop apps written in Visual Basic 3. They started planning to improve things five years ago but no action has been taken. The machines in question were not hooked up to the network, so they had that going for them, which is nice.
 
2023-01-10 10:49:39 PM  
What about "Windows 8.11 for Workgroups?"
 
2023-01-10 10:55:35 PM  

Russ1642: Just imagine the few people who went from Vista, to Win 8, and waited until the jump to Win 11. LOL.


Win 11 is pretty good. At least they end up somewhere good.
 
2023-01-10 11:14:04 PM  
I still have a machine that is running XP.  It is used for a jukebox app and needs a pc with two serial (not USB to serial, but actual serial) ports.  Hardware is a bigger concern as far as dying right now.
 
2023-01-11 12:23:11 AM  
I stuck with 7 until sometime in late '18/early '19. I bought a Windows 11 Professional key on discount just to have it, but I'm sticking with10 for the foreseeable future. It works fine for everything I want to do and I used Open-Shell and Ultimate Windows Tweaker to make it look and work nice and boring and retro.
 
2023-01-11 12:31:11 AM  
If it's question of cost, you can still upgrade licensed 7 and 8.x machines to Ten.
 
2023-01-11 2:13:21 AM  

Russ1642: Just imagine the few people who went from Vista, to Win 8, and waited until the jump to Win 11. LOL.


Those poor souls

This is my first time trying to mainline an "odd" release, and 11 has been... ok. I hate how deeply the "mobile"-isms are in this desktop operating system.  And the security out of the box is a little aggressive for my taste, but I can see the net good for your average joe.

The constant nagging for feedback is awful, but that may be because I am on the insider version.
 
2023-01-11 2:17:02 AM  

trerro: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide

So 1/7 users won't get patches against exploits that can affect other versions, too. Sounds like a sound decision.


These are...bad stats to use, because they mainly concern browser traffic only and miss much for many reasons, from plugins like Ublock that block that info, and it largely misses/ignores Enterprise, and enterprise is and has been on 10/11 for years now. Additionally, there are no demographics here, and I would bet that the large majority of 7 machines are overseas - particularly Asia. Windows 7 was one of the last 'easily crackable' versions of Windows that exists, and that's why it persists.

You'll note that there aren't major stories of huge worms ripping through things anymore, mostly because Windows security sub-system is excellent today and is just always there. That and things like patch deployment are 100% easier than they were. My Windows Defender updates 3-4 times a day for latest threats and 0-days. I personally know of CS teams that saw dramatic drops in call traffic for viruses. I worked on a CS team as a backup "tier III" tech when I was doing dev, and I can personally vouch that our call / email volume declined 75-90% in a year after we switched our clients to it.

Windows 7 exploits will not share much in common with Windows 11 ones as the underlying software changed a lot between 8.1 and 10 and slightly between 10 and 11. Thus the vectors for attack were sealed either in version upgrades or security upgrades that continue to be applied. Additionally, things like Internet Explorer literally do not exist on Windows 11 machines anymore (maybe 10 too?). So really, 7 computers are threats to 7 computers.

benelane: Meh, I was on 7 for a very long time, but 10 has been pretty good for me, especially after reverting some stuff back to 7ish. Can't turn off that prompt for installing 11 though. I'll probably be on 10 for awhile to come.


I never thought 10 or 11 were bad, just different. I like that 11 is more widescreen-centric, I also like how fast and light it is as well - even though it's a massive piece of software.
 
2023-01-11 2:27:48 AM  

Fooshards: This is my first time trying to mainline an "odd" release, and 11 has been... ok. I hate how deeply the "mobile"-isms are in this desktop operating system.  And the security out of the box is a little aggressive for my taste, but I can see the net good for your average joe.


Thank god they scaled it back from what 8/8.1 was though. The tile system was garbage.

There are a TON of display/feature things that you can do that I really really like:
- Centered task bar a la Mac
- Got music/media playing? Click your sound icon and get controls. Works for pretty much everything
- New screen shot tool Win+Shift+S (not clipping tool!)
- Easy video editing tools in "photos"
- "Aero Shake" grab a window and shake it (you have to turn this on in Settings -> System -> Multitasking) and all other windows minimize.
- Wholly better multi-desktop controls. Give that little two window icon a click
- "Auto HDR" which tries to add HDR to games that don't have it
Fark user image

Oh and Windows 11 supports DTS:X and Dolby Atmos. Nice. DX12 support as well and 7 will never have that.
 
2023-01-11 3:47:04 AM  
7 was the best Windows OS. Earlier versions were too clunky. Newer versions are all about ads and data mining. With 7 they had UAC well sorted, driver issues resolved, and a highly stable desktop that one could use indefinitely

If they had kept updating 7 but without adding junk, I probably would switch back from Linux
 
2023-01-11 4:27:46 AM  

Fooshards: Russ1642: Just imagine the few people who went from Vista, to Win 8, and waited until the jump to Win 11. LOL.

Those poor souls

This is my first time trying to mainline an "odd" release, and 11 has been... ok. I hate how deeply the "mobile"-isms are in this desktop operating system.  And the security out of the box is a little aggressive for my taste, but I can see the net good for your average joe.

The constant nagging for feedback is awful, but that may be because I am on the insider version.


I imagine there'd be a lot of hardware/ software issues upgrading an XP machine that far.
 
2023-01-11 5:28:17 AM  
I'm fine with my Linux Mint desktop for my own use. Work can have me on Windows if THEY take care of it. As far as 11, after I tried it quick on a new desktop I blew it away for where I am now. Couldn't stand having to use a Microsoft account. No I'm not interested in SaaS for at home where I could easily get locked out at a moments notice or end up losing everything because someone screwed up like that one game company recently who lost about 60% of their players saves. No point in all the eggs in one basket to get wiped out like that.
 
2023-01-11 6:36:49 AM  

rideaurocks: 7 was the best Windows OS. Earlier versions were too clunky. Newer versions are all about ads and data mining. With 7 they had UAC well sorted, driver issues resolved, and a highly stable desktop that one could use indefinitely

If they had kept updating 7 but without adding junk, I probably would switch back from Linux


I have the best of both worlds -- running Linux Mint, and for those times I require Windows (which I do, for work), I have Windows 7 running as a virtual machine with VirtualBox.  I have a bunch of Win 7 licenses from machines I bought/built through the years, so it was the easier (and free) choice to make.
 
2023-01-11 7:39:00 AM  

Russ1642: Just imagine the few people who went from Vista, to Win 8, and waited until the jump to Win 11. LOL.


I imagine their wardrobe contains significant amounts of leather, rubber and asslessness.
 
2023-01-11 9:05:40 AM  
Tech is at the point where older is better.  Unless you're in a position of power.
 
2023-01-11 10:22:55 AM  

flood222: Tech is at the point where older is better.  Unless you're in a position of power.


There are about a hundred reasons why this is wrong.
 
2023-01-11 10:33:47 AM  

Denjiro: I stuck with 7 until sometime in late '18/early '19. I bought a Windows 11 Professional key on discount just to have it, but I'm sticking with10 for the foreseeable future. It works fine for everything I want to do and I used Open-Shell and Ultimate Windows Tweaker to make it look and work nice and boring and retro.


You can still install Windows 10 and 11 with keys for 8 and 8.1. You don't need to go thru successive upgrading, you can just download the install from Microsoft, put it on a stick, install 10 or 11 on a blank drive and put in your key, and you'll get the grade you have. 8.1 Pro becomes 11 Pro and such.
 
2023-01-11 3:23:14 PM  
Won't be doing windows 11. Not because it isn't a decent OS, but I don't like apple's interface and with the software I run I need as much room on my 3 screens as possible to run 3D Studio Max and other software. The best way to do that is to move the taskbar to the left side of the screen and set it up according to MY workflow.
If I wanted a Mac I would buy one.

Windows 11 doesn't let you do that without a bunch of unnecessary workarounds and extra software, and it still doesn't work right. Until they fix that, it's a no.
 
2023-01-11 3:26:58 PM  

Fooshards: Russ1642: Just imagine the few people who went from Vista, to Win 8, and waited until the jump to Win 11. LOL.

Those poor souls

This is my first time trying to mainline an "odd" release, and 11 has been... ok. I hate how deeply the "mobile"-isms are in this desktop operating system.  And the security out of the box is a little aggressive for my taste, but I can see the net good for your average joe.

The constant nagging for feedback is awful, but that may be because I am on the insider version.


My laptop from 2017 doesn't meet the requirements but my desktop is newer. I don't want to run two different OSes. So I'll wait to make the switch until I absolutely have to replace my laptop, which might be a few more years. It's got a 4k touchscreen and is plenty powerful enough to run anything I want. The only software it apparently can't handle is a farking OS.
 
2023-01-11 5:44:08 PM  

phimuskapsi: Fooshards: This is my first time trying to mainline an "odd" release, and 11 has been... ok. I hate how deeply the "mobile"-isms are in this desktop operating system.  And the security out of the box is a little aggressive for my taste, but I can see the net good for your average joe.

Thank god they scaled it back from what 8/8.1 was though. The tile system was garbage.

There are a TON of display/feature things that you can do that I really really like:
- Centered task bar a la Mac
- Got music/media playing? Click your sound icon and get controls. Works for pretty much everything
- New screen shot tool Win+Shift+S (not clipping tool!)
- Easy video editing tools in "photos"
- "Aero Shake" grab a window and shake it (you have to turn this on in Settings -> System -> Multitasking) and all other windows minimize.
- Wholly better multi-desktop controls. Give that little two window icon a click
- "Auto HDR" which tries to add HDR to games that don't have it
[Fark user image 215x94]

Oh and Windows 11 supports DTS:X and Dolby Atmos. Nice. DX12 support as well and 7 will never have that.


You reminded me of how truly awesome the Win11 sound mixer app is.   As someone whose PC is connected to 2 monitors, computer speakers, an amplified bass system,a TV, and occasionally bluetooth headphones, the sound mixer app does a stellar job putting audio to all the right devices you want it to.
 
2023-01-11 6:25:41 PM  

Russ1642: The only software it apparently can't handle is a farking OS.


If your PC can run Win10, it can run Win11.  Just with an unsupported CPU, you miss out on VBS/core isolation and if you don't have TPM 2.0 set up properly then Bitlocker works in a somewhat different fashion.  Not currently aware if there are any other concerns with older hardware.

What MS should be doing with the Win11 installer is just warning people they're missing out on new features by installing on unsupported hardware, instead requiring hoop-jumping on hardware that will still otherwise be useful for years to come.

There's tons of guides out there on how to twiddle settings to allow Win11 install on unsupported hardware.
 
2023-01-11 8:18:19 PM  

Chromium_One: Russ1642: The only software it apparently can't handle is a farking OS.

If your PC can run Win10, it can run Win11.  Just with an unsupported CPU, you miss out on VBS/core isolation and if you don't have TPM 2.0 set up properly then Bitlocker works in a somewhat different fashion.  Not currently aware if there are any other concerns with older hardware.

What MS should be doing with the Win11 installer is just warning people they're missing out on new features by installing on unsupported hardware, instead requiring hoop-jumping on hardware that will still otherwise be useful for years to come.

There's tons of guides out there on how to twiddle settings to allow Win11 install on unsupported hardware.


Do I have anything to gain? I don't want to run an OS that isn't supported. I have shiat to do. Jumping through hoops to install an OS I don't need isn't something worth spending my time on right now.
 
2023-01-11 9:04:45 PM  

Russ1642: Do I have anything to gain?


No.  Straight up there is zero reason for most users to give a single shiat about upgrading before Win10 support ends.  Just putting the info out again.
 
2023-01-11 9:22:42 PM  

Chromium_One: There's tons of guides out there on how to twiddle settings to allow Win11 install on unsupported hardware.


Additionally, and I know this is going to sound weird, but in my experience Windows 10 runs on far more hardware than 7 did, the generic driver library is...impressive to say the least. Just as an example, I had a Windows 7 laptop, tried to update it to 8 and ran into all sorts of driver issues, went back to 7. Updated to 10 years later and everything worked, even the weird laptop only buttons. It also supports a lot of old hardware that maybe you couldn't find drivers for for years, try it out.

Fooshards: You reminded me of how truly awesome the Win11 sound mixer app is.   As someone whose PC is connected to 2 monitors, computer speakers, an amplified bass system,a TV, and occasionally bluetooth headphones, the sound mixer app does a stellar job putting audio to all the right devices you want it to.


Yeah it's quite good, the volume mixer for the individual apps is much easier to use than prior as well.

rewind2846: Won't be doing windows 11. Not because it isn't a decent OS, but I don't like apple's interface and with the software I run I need as much room on my 3 screens as possible to run 3D Studio Max and other software. The best way to do that is to move the taskbar to the left side of the screen and set it up according to MY workflow.
If I wanted a Mac I would buy one.


You can auto-hide it. There is also a registry key that you can change to force it to the left, though I'm not sure what behavior will be lift.
 
2023-01-12 8:56:52 AM  

phimuskapsi: You can auto-hide it.


I don't want it hidden. I want it visible, but I want it on the left just as in all previous versions of windows. Hiding the taskbar would defeat the purpose of having it.
Every other version simply asked you where the taskbar needed to go, no registry hacks. Until that happens, no windows 11.
 
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