Izunbacol: robodog: We get down to -15 in NE Ohio, I've never had to drip my outside hose hookups, is that because I have a basement instead of a crawl space?

Grew up in the south - the only dripping I know if is people who drip their outside spigots because the builders down there won't install frost-proof spigots that would add an extra $60 or so bucks to a house.  I've never heard of dripping the interior faucets.

The water lines are generally buried, and come up through the slab foundation.  Crawl spaces only a thing for really old houses, and of course mobile homes.  Since we're talking about Alabama, that's probably the issue at hand.

I live in the South; homes with crawl spaces remain prevalent, even with newer construction.

And yes, the dripping issue is about the pipes in the crawl space. Air needs to flow through it to prevent mold; insulation will only do so much. With outside lines for spigots, they are must likely to freeze because they go right up to the side of the home (but homes built after the mid 70s should have a shutoff for those lines).

Izunbacol: thornhill: Izunbacol: robodog: We get down to -15 in NE Ohio, I've never had to drip my outside hose hookups, is that because I have a basement instead of a crawl space?

Grew up in the south - the only dripping I know if is people who drip their outside spigots because the builders down there won't install frost-proof spigots that would add an extra $60 or so bucks to a house.  I've never heard of dripping the interior faucets.

The water lines are generally buried, and come up through the slab foundation.  Crawl spaces only a thing for really old houses, and of course mobile homes.  Since we're talking about Alabama, that's probably the issue at hand.

I live in the South; homes with crawl spaces remain prevalent, even with newer construction.

And yes, the dripping issue is about the pipes in the crawl space. Air needs to flow through it to prevent mold; insulation will only do so much. With outside lines for spigots, they are must likely to freeze because they go right up to the side of the home (but homes built after the mid 70s should have a shutoff for those lines).

hmm... more regional than I thought, I guess.  Every I've seen house built since the 50's in north FL/south GA was slab, unless it was a mobile home. Up here, there are a few slabs (like my house), but basements are more common. I associate crawlspaces with pre-1950's homes on wooden pilings sitting on stone, brick, or concrete footers.

Doing some Google image searches, it looks like a lot of homes I assumed had basements (with the small windows along the foundation wall) might actually be crawlspace homes. TIL

Basements are uncommon in much of the South because of the clay soil. It's constantly wet, which creates moisture and mold issues (if you've ever been in a basement in the South, there was likely a dehumidifier running 24/7). There are also issues with the clay expanding after heavy rains which can cause structural issues.

And the reason homes in the North tend to have basement is because the foundations have to be below the frost line -- so if you're building down that deep, you might as well include a basement.

Crawl spaces remain common in the South because they are cost effective. Slabs must be built on level land; moving soil around can be expensive and timely, especially if the land has a sharp incline. A home crawl-space home can be built into the contours of the land (especially when it slopes up or down from the sidewalk.

The main downside of a crawl space is that you have to control the moisture in it or you'll get mold, and pipes are at a greater risk of freezing. The house will also get colder in the winter because of the cold air shooting under it and you're more likely to have pest problems with it. Upsides are that you can stick the HVAC down there, and if you ever want to remodel your home, it's very simply to move the plumbing lines.

I live in Atlanta, and when I bought my new home, a slab was a requirement -- I just didn't want to deal with the problems associated with crawl spaces (especially given that many owners don't spend the necessary money to put in a good vapor barrier or just encapsulate the crawl space).

squegeebooo: One place I rented, the laundry room wasn't properly insulated and the pipes went up the external wall.

In cold enough weather the water lines would freeze in there, so we learned to put them to drip if it got below about 20F.

I once rented a house in Central Alabama; the person who did the flip on it didn't insulate the pipes underneath. It was pretty rare that the temp would dip below the mid-20s, but when it did, the pipes would freeze -- I found out the hard way. After that, I just shut off the water to the house during nights when the temp fell into the mid-20s.

Izunbacol: thornhill: Basements are uncommon in much of the South because of the clay soil. It's constantly wet, which creates moisture and mold issues (if you've ever been in a basement in the South, there was likely a dehumidifier running 24/7). There are also issues with the clay expanding after heavy rains which can cause structural issues.

And the reason homes in the North tend to have basement is because the foundations have to be below the frost line -- so if you're building down that deep, you might as well include a basement.

Crawl spaces remain common in the South because they are cost effective. Slabs must be built on level land; moving soil around can be expensive and timely, especially if the land has a sharp incline. A home crawl-space home can be built into the contours of the land (especially when it slopes up or down from the sidewalk.

The main downside of a crawl space is that you have to control the moisture in it or you'll get mold, and pipes are at a greater risk of freezing. The house will also get colder in the winter because of the cold air shooting under it and you're more likely to have pest problems with it. Upsides are that you can stick the HVAC down there, and if you ever want to remodel your home, it's very simply to move the plumbing lines.

I live in Atlanta, and when I bought my new home, a slab was a requirement -- I just didn't want to deal with the problems associated with crawl spaces (especially given that many owners don't spend the necessary money to put in a good vapor barrier or just encapsulate the crawl space).

There are good number of walkout basements, usually on a sloping lot (there's no place in the continental US that was spared the "beauty" of split level homes).  True basements are unusual for sure.

The way I understand it, only the footings around the perimeter of the house have to be below the frostline, and the rest of the slab can be poured just a few inches thick:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x566]

There are some technical factors that encourage one or the other, but I suspect it's mostly a matter of local expectations.  Buyers in the upper midwest, mid atlantic, and New England just expect a basement to be included.  Like... there's probably some deep reason you could come up with for why Texans yank the fridge and washer/dryer when they sell a house (regardless of whether it'll fit or match in the new house), but I suspect it's mostly "that' sjust what you do."

While that's true about the footings, you're already moving a lot of dirt, so it's not that much more expensive to move more for the basement.

I also imagine that basements boost property values because they do add a lot of space, and you can stick the HVAC and hot water heater down there.

There are of course downsides to basements, notably that they will flood from time to time.

My childhood home in Philadelphia was a slab, no basement. The reason was that the house was close enough to a river that a once-in-a-50-year storm would flood it. Incidentally, such a storm hit like two years ago. The neighbors - some of whom my family is still in touch with - had basements, and they were completely flooded.