Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(ABC News)   Finnish defense chief takes two months of paternal leave. For the Americans here, that's when a male parent gets paid time off to care for a child   (abcnews.go.com) divider line
97
    More: Spiffy, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Nordic countries, Estonia, Father, Northern Europe  
•       •       •

839 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2022 at 11:05 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



97 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
educated [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 10:43:28 AM  
This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.
 
phalamir [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 10:49:37 AM  

educated: but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner


You do know that any fraction of zero is zero right?  So, they both get equal time.
 
NewportBarGuy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-19 10:52:52 AM  
Now Russia is going to invade. Nice work, Libs.
 
DarnoKonrad
2022-12-19 10:54:45 AM  
Well that's no way to create an alienated and dysfunctional society.
 
nealb2 [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 10:55:34 AM  
Well if we weren't fighting ten proxy wars at once our defense secretary could as well.
 
educated [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 10:56:15 AM  

phalamir: educated: but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner

You do know that any fraction of zero is zero right?  So, they both get equal time.


Excellent call out. Thank you.

I am speaking from a very privileged position - the company I work for gives the birthing partner 3 months and the non-birthing partner 2 weeks.

I find that unacceptable.
That it is not guaranteed for every citizen no matter their employer/employment status is atrocious.
 
DarnoKonrad
2022-12-19 11:00:14 AM  

educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.



FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.
 
Somaticasual [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:05:56 AM  
The saddest part is that this shouldn't be news, if any sense of fairness was in play.
 
phalamir [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:06:19 AM  

DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.


I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.
 
theFword
2022-12-19 11:07:38 AM  
Or get an abortion and keep working.
 
Nirbo
2022-12-19 11:08:36 AM  

educated: phalamir: educated: but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner

You do know that any fraction of zero is zero right?  So, they both get equal time.

Excellent call out. Thank you.

I am speaking from a very privileged position - the company I work for gives the birthing partner 3 months and the non-birthing partner 2 weeks.

I find that unacceptable.
That it is not guaranteed for every citizen no matter their employer/employment status is atrocious.


And that's why you have this farked up system.

Because 3 months is abhorrent to begin with.

The last thing you should be biatching about is 2 weeks.
 
educated [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:08:47 AM  

DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.


Yeah I wasn't even getting into the pay during parental leave... it varies so wildly that it is also a separate (though related) discussion.

But to be clear, I think pay should be in full for the duration of the leave. Minimum of 6 months with full pay for the birthing partner, ideally a year with full pay. Minimum of 6 months for the non-birthing partner as well - also full pay.
The parents should be able to use their time as they see fit. So - total of at least a year split between them, both with full pay and any flexibility they require.
 
johnny_vegas [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:08:52 AM  

phalamir: educated: but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner

You do know that any fraction of zero is zero right?  So, they both get equal time.


*shrug* my company offers paternal leave.
/more need to though
 
LewDux [OhFark]
2022-12-19 11:09:25 AM  
Did they run out of female ministers?
 
drewogatory
2022-12-19 11:09:34 AM  

phalamir: DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.

I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.


As it should be? Why should your employer pay you to breed?
 
Qellaqan
2022-12-19 11:10:29 AM  

educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


I think we'd be better off emphasizing family leave over parental leave. I had to take time off to deal with hospice for a parent and that is exhausting and time consuming too. We should support people taking care of family in all stripes, young and old. And those lucky enough not to need to use it should be happy to have it just in case.

I've seen that parental leave gets into annoyingly myopic gendered discussion quickly-but really we all want to have time to take care of people when we have to.
 
Some Junkie Cosmonaut
2022-12-19 11:12:18 AM  

drewogatory: phalamir: DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.

I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.

As it should be? Why should your employer pay you to breed?


I think you left your take in the oven a bit long, it's awfully hot
 
Qellaqan
2022-12-19 11:14:14 AM  

drewogatory: phalamir: DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.

I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.

As it should be? Why should your employer pay you to breed?


You're right. It should be federal law and have nothing to do with the good graces of an employer. Societies need sustained populations, preferably not raised feral.
 
Pangit
2022-12-19 11:14:51 AM  
Times are changing. We offered 6 week paternal leave at our job a few years back. If someone didnt want to take it, they had the option to work from home during that same time period. Goes a long way to employee satisfaction. Plenty of people resign a job either with their spouses consent or encouragement these days.
 
Nirbo
2022-12-19 11:15:20 AM  

drewogatory: phalamir: DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.

I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.

As it should be? Why should your employer pay you to breed?


They shouldn't.

Oh wait. I've got some real bad news about the next generation of workers
 
educated [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:16:26 AM  

Qellaqan: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.

I think we'd be better off emphasizing family leave over parental leave. I had to take time off to deal with hospice for a parent and that is exhausting and time consuming too. We should support people taking care of family in all stripes, young and old. And those lucky enough not to need to use it should be happy to have it just in case.

I've seen that parental leave gets into annoyingly myopic gendered discussion quickly-but really we all want to have time to take care of people when we have to.


Also a fantastic call out! Thank you!
 
Aar1012 [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:17:30 AM  

drewogatory: phalamir: DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.

I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.

As it should be? Why should your employer pay you to breed?


That's like super edgy. You should use "crotch fruit" next.
 
question_dj [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:18:39 AM  
The money guy for a project I'm working on expressed displeasure at someone from his support group having taken paternity leave.

Why yes, he does demand information on conference calls where he's not paying attention, and the information has already been covered multiple times.
 
MillionDollarMo
2022-12-19 11:19:32 AM  
Dolphin society is quite advanced, clearly we could learn a few things from these Finns.
 
drewogatory
2022-12-19 11:19:42 AM  

Qellaqan: drewogatory: phalamir: DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.

I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.

As it should be? Why should your employer pay you to breed?

You're right. It should be federal law and have nothing to do with the good graces of an employer. Societies need sustained populations, preferably not raised feral.


I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had. There's no way they can pay someone to not work for 25% of the year.  Now, once you get into the realm of actually valuable employees who aren't just trained monkeys, or large corporations I'm sure there are different considerations.
 
Private_Citizen [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-19 11:21:23 AM  
When my kids were born I had two full days off* to bring my wife to the hospital, be there for the birth, and drive her home.

*Because I had the 'vacation days'. Without that? I would have picked her up after work.
 
Tr0mBoNe [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:22:52 AM  
Must be nice to have a strong government that works for the people and not moronic short term business interests.
 
Nirbo
2022-12-19 11:24:14 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Must be nice to have a strong government that works for the people and not moronic short term business interests.


Ours manages to do both and stay greedy.
 
Tr0mBoNe [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:25:13 AM  

Nirbo: Tr0mBoNe: Must be nice to have a strong government that works for the people and not moronic short term business interests.

Ours manages to do both and stay greedy.


I used to think that way, too.
 
Ambitwistor [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:26:04 AM  

drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.


... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.
 
drewogatory
2022-12-19 11:26:47 AM  

Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.


Are those countries America? If not, then apples/oranges.
 
Ambitwistor [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:28:29 AM  

drewogatory: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Are those countries America? If not, then apples/oranges.


Yes, that's the point.
 
Nirbo
2022-12-19 11:29:38 AM  

drewogatory: Qellaqan: drewogatory: phalamir: DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.

I had a friend who had to pay to have her kid.  She is a college professor, and the university made her pay out of pocket for the adjunct to cover her classes while she shot out the little rugrat.

As it should be? Why should your employer pay you to breed?

You're right. It should be federal law and have nothing to do with the good graces of an employer. Societies need sustained populations, preferably not raised feral.

I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had. There's no way they can pay someone to not work for 25% of the year.  Now, once you get into the realm of actually valuable employees who aren't just trained monkeys, or large corporations I'm sure there are different considerations.


How hard did your CEO work?

Maybe he could have taken an hour off each day to free up a few million for maternity leave.

How many trips did the owner take to Mexican resorts?

Maybe 3 a year would have been enough?
 
drewogatory
2022-12-19 11:32:20 AM  
How hard did your CEO work?

I mean my boss puts in probably 50 hours at the shop, not counting admin? If he paid his receptionist for 3 months of sitting on her ass, his wife would probably have to do that work for free.
 
El_Dan
2022-12-19 11:32:45 AM  

Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.


Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.
 
Drank_the_40_water
2022-12-19 11:34:09 AM  

DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.


It goes deeper than that. If birthing parents take time and non birthing ones don't, then there will always be a penalty for having a uterus. People will pass over uteri for promotions because they might take leave, the uteri will be away from work more and therefore will lose ground, etc. Men must take all the leave they are granted so that women are not penalized for either taking their leave or for the possibility that they might.

And all the leave needs to be paid. Obviously.
 
Zeb Hesselgresser
2022-12-19 11:34:56 AM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
Lish
2022-12-19 11:35:09 AM  

DarnoKonrad: educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.


FMLA applies to fathers and adopting parents, too.
 
Ambitwistor [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:35:52 AM  

El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work?


It varies by country, but I believe it's funded through things like payroll taxes, general taxes, health insurance, etc., applied across the whole working population.
 
Tr0mBoNe [TotalFark]
2022-12-19 11:36:17 AM  

El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.


Money wise: insurance.
Management wise: that sounds like a bad place to work. Hopefully you found better environs.
 
squegeebooo
2022-12-19 11:37:01 AM  

educated: This is one of the gross inequalities in the American benefit orientation (I don't know what else to call it - it's a whole discussion unto itself).
It is absolutely absurd that both parents don't get comparable time off to bond with a new child. I absolutely get that a birthing partner likely needs more recovery time, but that the non-birthing partner gets a fraction of the time the birthing partner gets is horrible, barbaric, not "family values" oriented and, frankly, damaging to the family unit.


I'm lucky enough to live in NY, and was able to use their PFL, as the dad.  But when I used it, it was just starting and was only
8 weeks
at 50% of your pay
at a max of 50% of the average pay in NYS

So, as an engineer, I was making something like 33% of my pay for the time I took.  Not everyone is able to afford that kind of pay hit.
 
shinji3i
2022-12-19 11:37:06 AM  

Ambitwistor: drewogatory: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Are those countries America? If not, then apples/oranges.

Yes, that's the point.


It's funny how often they're so close to getting it. It's like they think the argument "X is a problem here and isn't elsewhere, we should fix that" means "only fix X" rather than "we need comprehensive reform of A-Z and we could just emulate the succesful systems used in other countries."
 
drewogatory
2022-12-19 11:37:34 AM  

El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.


This is exactly how it would go pretty much everywhere I've ever worked. There are a lot of basically unskilled workers out there where it's not economically feasible to pay those kinds of benefits. The value just isn't there. If you're some hot shot engineer or something I'm sure shiat's different.
 
squegeebooo
2022-12-19 11:38:40 AM  

drewogatory: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Are those countries America? If not, then apples/oranges.


You can grow both in America.
 
Jeebus Saves
2022-12-19 11:40:00 AM  

El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.


That's the part I don't get.  Someone has to be doing the work that the person on leave is supposed to be doing.  So everyone else has to do more work for the same amount of pay for months.  That's not like dealing with someone taking a vacation or anything.
 
drewogatory
2022-12-19 11:45:37 AM  

Jeebus Saves: El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.

That's the part I don't get.  Someone has to be doing the work that the person on leave is supposed to be doing.  So everyone else has to do more work for the same amount of pay for months.  That's not like dealing with someone taking a vacation or anything.


All I see happening is a bunch of people scheduled for 5 less hours a week than whatever the minimum will be to qualify. You already see that with part time vs. full time.
 
El_Dan
2022-12-19 11:50:18 AM  

drewogatory: El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.

This is exactly how it would go pretty much everywhere I've ever worked. There are a lot of basically unskilled workers out there where it's not economically feasible to pay those kinds of benefits. The value just isn't there. If you're some hot shot engineer or something I'm sure shiat's different.


This was the legal industry, and a pretty highly skilled and highly paid position. The higher ups still decided to try to save some money by risking burning the rest of us out.
 
danny_kay [OhFark]
2022-12-19 11:52:55 AM  

Jeebus Saves: El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.

That's the part I don't get.  Someone has to be doing the work that the person on leave is supposed to be doing.  So everyone else has to do more work for the same amount of pay for months.  That's not like dealing with someone taking a vacation or anything.


In Germany, people get hired specifically as a maternity-leave replacement.
 
squegeebooo
2022-12-19 11:54:02 AM  

El_Dan: drewogatory: El_Dan: Ambitwistor: drewogatory: I've only ever worked for small business (outside of the .gov  a couple of times) and those kinds of policies would cripple almost every employer I've ever had.

... and yet small businesses exist in all the countries that have paid parental leave.  Someone should look into that.

Honest question, how does that work? I'm thinking back to a smallish place I worked several years back that offered maternity leave at least to certain employees. There were four people in my role, one of my co-workers took maternity leave, and they simply gave the remaining three of us 1/3 more work for the six months she was out. Predictably, it was awful, and two of us quit shortly after.

This is exactly how it would go pretty much everywhere I've ever worked. There are a lot of basically unskilled workers out there where it's not economically feasible to pay those kinds of benefits. The value just isn't there. If you're some hot shot engineer or something I'm sure shiat's different.

This was the legal industry, and a pretty highly skilled and highly paid position. The higher ups still decided to try to save some money by risking burning the rest of us out.


The way it *should* work is:
The company should be setting aside X dollars every pay period, so that when someone has to go on leave, for any reason, they have a pool of money set aside to hire temp help during that period.

What happens in good ol' American capitalism, is instead of setting aside that money, they realize higher EBITA instead, and then when someone does have to go on leave, they have no money to afford temp workers and over work their people instead.
 
LineNoise [OhFark]
2022-12-19 12:01:59 PM  

DarnoKonrad: FMLA, which "allows" mothers to take unpaid leave, contributes to the 'inequity.'   Someone has to be bringing money in.   Yeah, it's farking stupid, but not for the reason you're suggesting here.  "You won't be fired, but you won't be paid," for having a baby isn't much of a benefit.


Your state is perfectly capable of implementing its own rules.

NJ has it. I got 6 weeks paid at 85% of my pay up to 1k a week, from the state. My employer also had its own plan which gave me added time and dough.

I forget what my wife got, but she basically didn't have to work for almost 6 months, and actually made a few bucks more than she would have at her job because of the tax differences.

You can have it as well, if you would like to pay NJ taxes.
 
Displayed 50 of 97 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Redisplay/refresh comments
This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking

Want more news before we break it? Try

TotalFark

See what's behind the green door
and help keep the tap flowing

learn more | sign up
On Twitter

  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.