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(Common Dreams)   You are going to believe this: Big Oil is pretty much just using Big Tobacco's playbook, manipulating data   (commondreams.org) divider line
    More: Obvious, Fossil fuel, Greenhouse gas, Carbon dioxide, Methane, Natural gas, Petroleum, Coal, fossil fuel industry  
•       •       •

1129 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Dec 2022 at 6:05 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



122 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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2022-12-09 4:44:48 PM  
I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.
 
2022-12-09 5:07:22 PM  
How Corporations Shifted The Blame For Climate Change
Youtube ZU6JBBO2NKg
 
2022-12-09 5:19:37 PM  

AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.


If I had money, I would.  Honestly the big issue is that a lot of sustainable things are priced out of the range of many of the people who would adopt them.  It's like pre-made Vegan food in that respect which, if you're working poor, cooking is a luxury so it's something you need.
 
2022-12-09 5:27:52 PM  
This has been known for some time. Dr. Michael Mann wrote a book about it.
 
2022-12-09 6:06:13 PM  
The Time America Almost Stopped Climate Change | Climate Town
Youtube MondapIjAAM
 
2022-12-09 6:10:53 PM  
Thank god for carbon offsets
 
2022-12-09 6:13:06 PM  

AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.


Just sold my tesla and got my ID.4. I have solar panels on the house. Not gonna change the world but it's better than nothing
 
2022-12-09 6:13:14 PM  
They're doing the same thing with paid shills to badmouth EVs on social media as well
 
2022-12-09 6:14:00 PM  
Stopping climate change requires stopping capitalism
 
2022-12-09 6:16:01 PM  

Nintenfreak: AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.

If I had money, I would.  Honestly the big issue is that a lot of sustainable things are priced out of the range of many of the people who would adopt them.  It's like pre-made Vegan food in that respect which, if you're working poor, cooking is a luxury so it's something you need.


"Organic" might very well kill millions of people.  What starving people really need is "genetically modified".  The difference in yields, and therefore costs, between the two are quite large.
 
2022-12-09 6:17:27 PM  

AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.


Really wish solar cars would take off more. Apparently one just went into production in the Netherlands, but it's expensive and who knows if it'll be sold in the US.

And of course, making the grid greener would make EVs even more appealing.
 
2022-12-09 6:17:56 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Stopping climate change requires stopping capitalism


Show your work.

i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 6:18:01 PM  
Big Tobacco wrote the original play book. I think they documented that thoroughly in Merchants of Doubt.
 
2022-12-09 6:18:52 PM  
mememaker.netView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 6:20:20 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: ElwoodCuse: Stopping climate change requires stopping capitalism

Show your work.

[i.kym-cdn.com image 600x600]


He can't. Work is part of capitalism.
 
2022-12-09 6:22:18 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Stopping climate change requires stopping capitalism


Well, what are you doing here? Get out there and stop it already.

img.memegenerator.netView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 6:27:17 PM  
Electric Vehicles don't have the major impact people think they do. The electricity is still generating tons of greenhouse gases through the power plants. Nuclear and Hydroelectric haven't really been built since the 70s. Solar and Windmills are nice but haven't had a big impact.

The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.
 
2022-12-09 6:28:22 PM  
The list of things Big Business has deliberately lied about and/or led us down the more harmful path as a result is a long one.

A few:
Child/slave labor (still ongoing in some parts of the world)
Radium in food, drinks, and consumer products
Gas-powered buses vs. electric trolleys in cities
Asbestos
Tetraethyl lead in gasoline and other products
Tobacco, as mentioned
Cyclamate and saccharine sweeteners
Thalidomide, Fen-Phen, and other prescription or over the counter drugs
Facebook
 
2022-12-09 6:31:38 PM  

SplittingAces: ElwoodCuse: Stopping climate change requires stopping capitalism

Well, what are you doing here? Get out there and stop it already.

[img.memegenerator.net image 738x550]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 6:31:44 PM  
Uhm...

Considering that in the 80's big oil started hiring some of the EXACT SAME LAWYERS the tobacco lobby used to pull their sh*t I'm gonna have to give this a 10 on the Romero scale.

I'm assuming many of the same PR people too to muddy the waters of popular discourse.
 
2022-12-09 6:32:24 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: Electric Vehicles don't have the major impact people think they do. The electricity is still generating tons of greenhouse gases through the power plants. Nuclear and Hydroelectric haven't really been built since the 70s. Solar and Windmills are nice but haven't had a big impact.

The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.


Point with EVs is that you have decoupled vehicles from the feedstock. It can be coal today (still more efficient emissions wise, even with 100% coal generated power, than an ICE) but solar or wind tomorrow, easing the transition to renewables. You decouple an entire sector from the fossil fuel infrastructure.
 
2022-12-09 6:37:02 PM  

make me some tea: This has been known for some time. Dr. Michael Mann wrote a book about it.


He needs to take take a hockey stick to these oil execs faces.
 
2022-12-09 6:42:15 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: Electric Vehicles don't have the major impact people think they do. The electricity is still generating tons of greenhouse gases through the power plants. Nuclear and Hydroelectric haven't really been built since the 70s. Solar and Windmills are nice but haven't had a big impact.

The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.


 
2022-12-09 6:44:05 PM  

AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 6:46:26 PM  

AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.


Bith Set Me Up: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZU6JBBO2NKg]


Through in two.
 
2022-12-09 6:48:43 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Stopping climate change requires stopping capitalism


At least requires stopping laissez-faire capitalism. The problem has always been that companies have been allowed to pollute and have never paid for their waste and cleanup. I think in theory, a well structured regulatory approach that forces companies to pay the costs of their emissions, plastic waste etc, could accomplish what is needed. I often doubt we have the will to accomplish this, but in theory...
 
2022-12-09 6:50:03 PM  

mistahtom: The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.


Yup and asphalt roads are a huge f*ckup.

A massive electric rail infrastructure project needs to be set up globally.

Also stop wasting oil to ship oil across the globe just to buy oil from across the globe.

That sh*t is infuriating.

Choose one... extract and refine locally or ship from elsewhere. Doing both is just... WHY??!!!!

Oh right. Greed.

Investment in hydrogen reactors should be a priority too.

Imagine having a mini sun in your basement powering your entire house and charging your EV with one of the most abundant matter in the universe... that burns clean.
 
2022-12-09 6:50:21 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: Electric Vehicles don't have the major impact people think they do. The electricity is still generating tons of greenhouse gases through the power plants. Nuclear and Hydroelectric haven't really been built since the 70s. Solar and Windmills are nice but haven't had a big impact.

The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.


Still, the dirty nature of manufacturing an electric car (versus a non-electric car) can be made up in just a year or two of use, even on a non-perfectly green electric grid.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/
 
2022-12-09 6:52:35 PM  
Rich people put their personal wealth and position (greed) ahead of morality and social responsibility.
News at 11!
 
2022-12-09 6:52:51 PM  
 
2022-12-09 6:56:03 PM  
Big Oil doing Big Tobacco?  Well, that legitimizes it entirely.  Reminds me when the country was ruled by Big (Jelly Bean) Candy.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 6:56:57 PM  
Personal EV's are indeed a crap solution.

Electric rail... EVERYWHERE!!!

Then system whereby you can hire a climate friendly vehicle to get to your final destination.

Preferably bicycles. Like unpowered ones.

Also for shipping. Get those f*cking nasty long haul trucks off the roads. All long haul sh*t done by rail and only the final leg done by truck... and preferably EV ones that are now coming out.

All the investment in sh*t like this should have started in the 70's/80's... but no.

Gotta bury/defund the science because STONKS!
 
2022-12-09 6:59:00 PM  

AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.


Nice! What did you order, if I may ask?
I'm personally invested in this and have been for decades... we have 2 EVs (Leaf and Model 3), and have 4.8kwhr worth of solar installed with a battery back up. The grid can go down and I can run my household/charge my cars if I manage it well.

Peter von Nostrand: AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.

Just sold my tesla and got my ID.4. I have solar panels on the house. Not gonna change the world but it's better than nothing


Awesome!
See above...

Yes, we should have been pushing things hard since the 1980s when I first studied "global warming", but now the tech is available for the mainstream if they want it. No more excuses for most people other than being cheap and slaves to convention (and not caring).
 
2022-12-09 7:00:17 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: Electric Vehicles don't have the major impact people think they do. The electricity is still generating tons of greenhouse gases through the power plants. Nuclear and Hydroelectric haven't really been built since the 70s. Solar and Windmills are nice but haven't had a big impact.

The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.


Yeah but every little bit is helping, and the more people get EVs, the quicker others will get EV's haha. Not trying to be cute and funny, what I mean is kinda trickle-down and messaging. A couple auto makers are already planning to sunset their combustion vehicle making. It might take 50 years, but slowly just about everyone is gonna have EV's and they'll be more available to middle and poor. Once we get to truly sunsetting consumer ICE vehicles, that is gonna be making a huge impact.
 
2022-12-09 7:00:42 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Show your work.

Allow me:

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

https://www.vox.com/2019/9/5/20850490/elizabeth-warren-climate-change-forum-2020

/Cue cries of "FAKE NEWS!!!" in 3, 2, 1...


Calls to eliminate capitalism
Asked for evidence
Links a person who says they are a Capitalist To My Bones as proof

How exactly is using Warren, who calls her economic policies Accountable Capitalism, proof that we need to eliminate capitalism?
 
2022-12-09 7:01:20 PM  

here to help: mistahtom: The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.

Yup and asphalt roads are a huge f*ckup.

A massive electric rail infrastructure project needs to be set up globally.

Also stop wasting oil to ship oil across the globe just to buy oil from across the globe.

That sh*t is infuriating.

Choose one... extract and refine locally or ship from elsewhere. Doing both is just... WHY??!!!!

Oh right. Greed.

Investment in hydrogen reactors should be a priority too.

Imagine having a mini sun in your basement powering your entire house and charging your EV with one of the most abundant matter in the universe... that burns clean.


Is there where I point out all those ideas are great but...

Republicans are still a big obstacle?
 
2022-12-09 7:02:05 PM  

AirForceVet: I ordered my new electric car for delivery in February-March 2023. Putting my money where my mouth is about climate change and trying to leave a better world for our children and their children.


I just keep trying to find a work at home PT so I don't have to drive at all, cause I can't afford anything newer than a 2005
 
2022-12-09 7:02:25 PM  

Geotpf: What starving people really need is "genetically modified".  The difference in yields, and therefore costs, between the two are quite large.


hell yeah, love GMOs.  Make everything GMO, fark organic
 
2022-12-09 7:03:38 PM  

SplittingAces: ElwoodCuse: Stopping climate change requires stopping capitalism

Well, what are you doing here? Get out there and stop it already.

[img.memegenerator.net image 738x550]


The benefit is, Climate change also stops capitalism, so really we could just let 90% of the planet live and get rid of capitalism, or just get rid of capitalism.
 
2022-12-09 7:05:00 PM  

Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: Bith Set Me Up: Show your work.

Allow me:

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

https://www.vox.com/2019/9/5/20850490/elizabeth-warren-climate-change-forum-2020

/Cue cries of "FAKE NEWS!!!" in 3, 2, 1...

Calls to eliminate capitalism
Asked for evidence
Links a person who says they are a Capitalist To My Bones as proof

How exactly is using Warren, who calls her economic policies Accountable Capitalism, proof that we need to eliminate capitalism?


Progressives: *makes claim(s)*
Moderates: "Citation needed."
Progressives: *provide reputable citation(s)*
Moderates: "FAKE NEWS!!!"
 
2022-12-09 7:07:31 PM  
also my county has an electric collective that has been putting all the eggs in the solar power bucket and cost is going down.  Many EV cars here as well as a couple rolling coal.  It's a strange place.
 
2022-12-09 7:08:12 PM  

whidbey: Republicans are still a big obstacle?


Oh ya but, and some folks may think an evil (((moderate))) such as myself would never say such a thing, but the old Third Way Dems need get off that big oil teat as well.

Definitely doing better than they were in the 90's but the shift has been rather slow and torturous.

Of course that goes back to the Pubs turning it into political dynamite "LOOK AT HE COST OF GASOLINE!!! HOW COULD YOU VOTE FOR THAT???!!!!" which has zero to do with climate change and everything to do with greed... but it works.

Let's just say... people are very very dumb.

And I say that as a drooling moron myself.
 
2022-12-09 7:08:25 PM  
They're sorry.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 7:09:54 PM  
Don't worry, Big Pharma will just go chugging along quietly behind the scenes. Quietly being a TV placement on par with political ads in voting season.
 
2022-12-09 7:10:03 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Progressives: *makes claim(s)*
Moderates: "Citation needed."
Progressives: *provide reputable citation(s)*
Moderates: "FAKE NEWS!!!"


Hey... stop trying to pick fights.

People are trying to have a discussion.
 
2022-12-09 7:11:25 PM  

whidbey: here to help: mistahtom: The batteries for electric vehicles aren't very clean to make.

Yup and asphalt roads are a huge f*ckup.

A massive electric rail infrastructure project needs to be set up globally.

Also stop wasting oil to ship oil across the globe just to buy oil from across the globe.

That sh*t is infuriating.

Choose one... extract and refine locally or ship from elsewhere. Doing both is just... WHY??!!!!

Oh right. Greed.

Investment in hydrogen reactors should be a priority too.

Imagine having a mini sun in your basement powering your entire house and charging your EV with one of the most abundant matter in the universe... that burns clean.

Is there where I point out all those ideas are great but...

Republicans are still a big obstacle?


Nah, the is all Schumer's fault even though nothing has even started and Sinema still sits on committees. Proglodytes out front should have told you.
 
2022-12-09 7:12:55 PM  

here to help: Hey... stop trying to pick fights.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 7:14:14 PM  
You mean lying? Because that's all they're actually doing.
 
2022-12-09 7:14:18 PM  

here to help: Bith Set Me Up: Progressives: *makes claim(s)*
Moderates: "Citation needed."
Progressives: *provide reputable citation(s)*
Moderates: "FAKE NEWS!!!"

Hey... stop trying to pick fights.

People are trying to have a discussion.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 7:14:31 PM  
*sigh*
 
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