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(The Gamer)   One ring to win them all, one ring to find them; One ring to bill them all and to their PCs bind them   (thegamer.com) divider line
    More: Cool, English-language films, American films, Game of the Year, Elden Ring, Game, Game Awards, The Big One, God Of War Ragnarok  
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1644 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 09 Dec 2022 at 2:55 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-12-09 3:05:10 PM  
I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.
 
2022-12-09 3:24:35 PM  

snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.


The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.
 
2022-12-09 3:32:36 PM  
Did they give that shiat ultrawide and more than 60 fps yet?
 
2022-12-09 3:51:44 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.

The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.


So they made a game - one in which a majority of people who play it - and that's what average is - won't be able to understand WTF is going on without large investments of their time searching outside sources?  Personally that's what I'd call bad design in a "You need to worrrrrrrk for itttt." costume
 
2022-12-09 4:17:56 PM  

Marcos P: Did they give that shiat ultrawide and more than 60 fps yet?


Playing LoTRO at Ultra-Wide with 144hz monitors.
LoL
Yep, taxing the game engine on a 3090 FE
 
2022-12-09 4:21:19 PM  

RoLleRKoaSTeR: Marcos P: Did they give that shiat ultrawide and more than 60 fps yet?

Playing LoTRO at Ultra-Wide with 144hz monitors.
LoL
Yep, taxing the game engine on a 3090 FE


Good look reading the text at that point
 
2022-12-09 4:26:16 PM  
If you hate grinding then Elden Ring is not for you.

Beat the 'General' by accident, only took 5 attempts and I didn't even watch the battle take place; stayed as far away as possible. If you time the re-spawn areas properly you don't need to fight him yourself.
 
2022-12-09 4:32:41 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Cthulhu Theory: snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.

The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.

So they made a game - one in which a majority of people who play it - and that's what average is - won't be able to understand WTF is going on without large investments of their time searching outside sources?  Personally that's what I'd call bad design in a "You need to worrrrrrrk for itttt." costume


I didn't say that.

What I said is the *lore* is made more accessible via videos that explain the things the game isn't explicit about, things which the average gamer isn't going to necessarily pick up on because they're used to being spoonfed exposition through dialogue and data logs.

Whether or not you like that kind of gameplay, games that don't hold your hand every step of the way, will have a massive impact on whether or not you like a game like this. However, calling it "bad design" because you didn't bother paying attention to anything in the game and got confused or bored is a you problem, not a design problem.
 
2022-12-09 4:36:24 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Cthulhu Theory: snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.

The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.

So they made a game - one in which a majority of people who play it - and that's what average is - won't be able to understand WTF is going on without large investments of their time searching outside sources?  Personally that's what I'd call bad design in a "You need to worrrrrrrk for itttt." costume


there's plenty of games that will hold your hand for you.  Hell, RDR2 basically plays itself.

Its kind of like Legend of Zelda OOT, without the cutscenes.  But you can pretty much go wherever from the start, can even skip the first dungeon if you go around.

Although it's made by a very very evil man who loves poison swamps.
 
2022-12-09 4:43:36 PM  

BeotchPudding: If you hate grinding then Elden Ring is not for you.

Beat the 'General' by accident, only took 5 attempts and I didn't even watch the battle take place; stayed as far away as possible. If you time the re-spawn areas properly you don't need to fight him yourself.


Grinding isn't super important if you're comfortable with the game mechanics, and there are options for quick powerleveling early on if you really need the boos.

Hardest bosses for me were Malenia (sword lady), Maliketh, and Radagon. Radahn was surprisingly easy for the reason you mention. Chucking rocks at him on horseback and letting the mob jump him is super effective, barely an inconvenience.
 
2022-12-09 4:59:11 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Cthulhu Theory: snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.

The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.

So they made a game - one in which a majority of people who play it - and that's what average is - won't be able to understand WTF is going on without large investments of their time searching outside sources?  Personally that's what I'd call bad design in a "You need to worrrrrrrk for itttt." costume

I didn't say that.

What I said is the *lore* is made more accessible via videos that explain the things the game isn't explicit about, things which the average gamer isn't going to necessarily pick up on because they're used to being spoonfed exposition through dialogue and data logs.

Whether or not you like that kind of gameplay, games that don't hold your hand every step of the way, will have a massive impact on whether or not you like a game like this. However, calling it "bad design" because you didn't bother paying attention to anything in the game and got confused or bored is a you problem, not a design problem.


Preach it! Such a great game (with a great story, though Souls 1 will always be my favourite story in the run)

The hand holding in the new GoW is just brutal. It's way too much for me.
 
2022-12-09 5:08:36 PM  

TheSlothAlive: Cthulhu Theory: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Cthulhu Theory: snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.

The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.

So they made a game - one in which a majority of people who play it - and that's what average is - won't be able to understand WTF is going on without large investments of their time searching outside sources?  Personally that's what I'd call bad design in a "You need to worrrrrrrk for itttt." costume

I didn't say that.

What I said is the *lore* is made more accessible via videos that explain the things the game isn't explicit about, things which the average gamer isn't going to necessarily pick up on because they're used to being spoonfed exposition through dialogue and data logs.

Whether or not you like that kind of gameplay, games that don't hold your hand every step of the way, will have a massive impact on whether or not you like a game like this. However, calling it "bad design" because you didn't bother paying attention to anything in the game and got confused or bored is a you problem, not a design problem.

Preach it! Such a great game (with a great story, though Souls 1 will always be my favourite story in the run)

The hand holding in the new GoW is just brutal. It's way too much for me.


Elden Ring never left me feeling empty when completing it, even after platinuming it twice (ps4&5).

Ragnarok, however, felt incomplete when I was done platinuming it. Lack of new game + probably is to blame, paired with my combing thru the content on my initial play through leaving hardly anything for post game to complete. Something that wasn't an issue for the first game.

I'm very much satisfied with the awards and how they shook out. Elden Ring was definitely the superior game overall, even though Ragnarok's narrative was much, much better. More people ought to give Elden Ring a shot, and just set aside the expectations that the gaming industry has set for what to expect so they can go in with fresh and open minds and really just get down into the game and submerse themselves in it. It's 100% worth it.
 
2022-12-09 5:26:09 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: I'm very much satisfied with the awards and how they shook out. Elden Ring was definitely the superior game overall, even though Ragnarok's narrative was much, much better. More people ought to give Elden Ring a shot, and just set aside the expectations that the gaming industry has set for what to expect so they can go in with fresh and open minds and really just get down into the game and submerse themselves in it. It's 100% worth it.


Oh it's not a bad game, but it absolutely reeks of "Pssst - if we tell them no hand holding we can skip allllllll kinds of time-consuming thus costly stuff."  Games I respect in the difficult BUT.. department tend make that sort of thing a setting.  Dark Souls style fark you?  On or off.  Other handholding hell down to the kindergarten level or up to Unfair Platformer if you want?  On or off.  Specific elements of difficulty?  On or off.  Choices make for a game that nearly anyone can enjoy - thus will pay for - which is generally the important part when you get right down to it from a company's perspective.  Coincidentally from a majority of players perspective as well.  But pretty much every time that's done you immediately get a crowd of screeching tryhards who's game experience is horribly invalidated by the fact that someone can set it to be easier, if they like.  Every damn time the complaining.  Between that and the fact that it's time and work, it's rarely done - but to me it's where things should be.  Let the player choose

/they're the same people that snort and stamp like a drunk elephant if a game includes any sort of aim assist option at all
//now filthy casuals can play, Gadzooks we are undone - all our efforts are for naught!
///Stans have ruined more damn games than EA has, and that's saying something
 
2022-12-09 5:35:06 PM  

snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game.


I'm struggling to comprehend how someone could be aware of Elden Ring, but not of what type of game it was.
 
2022-12-09 5:35:54 PM  

snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.


I played it all the way through and beat the final boss and... yeah, I can understand that.

I enjoyed the game quite a lot, personally I'm not surprised it won GOTY as it was a whole ton of fun, but I enjoyed it for the game design. The graphics, the combat, the exploration, the creepy enemies. That stuff.

The "lore" is a big mish-mashed, fantasy gish-gallop. It seems... inventive I guess, but a good deal of it is incoherent and nonsensical. It can also be very difficult to keep track of, particularly questline stories. The lack of a quest log continues to be my biggest complaint. It's very difficult to follow most questlines without keeping either notes in a notebook handy or a quest guide open on another screen - without it it's hard to even know if you're ON a quest or if the quest has already ended or not. Knowing what to do next on a quest/for the story is often an exercise in augury - or Google.

I think it was a ton of fun, but if you're mostly interested in the story experience... yeah, I don't know that this is gonna be your game.
 
2022-12-09 6:15:11 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Cthulhu Theory: snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.

The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.

So they made a game - one in which a majority of people who play it - and that's what average is - won't be able to understand WTF is going on without large investments of their time searching outside sources?  Personally that's what I'd call bad design in a "You need to worrrrrrrk for itttt." costume

I didn't say that.

What I said is the *lore* is made more accessible via videos that explain the things the game isn't explicit about, things which the average gamer isn't going to necessarily pick up on because they're used to being spoonfed exposition through dialogue and data logs.

Whether or not you like that kind of gameplay, games that don't hold your hand every step of the way, will have a massive impact on whether or not you like a game like this. However, calling it "bad design" because you didn't bother paying attention to anything in the game and got confused or bored is a you problem, not a design problem.


I think you hit the nail on the head. i LOVE the fact I have to explore to get the story. Hell most of the games I played as a kid you had to read a story in the booklet that came with it if you wanted to know the story. Does Super Mario Brothers have a story that's told as you progress? No. You jump on turtles and move on. Elden Ring has an amazing story that is told as you progress. if you want to know more, sure you have to find it. But it still tells a story.
 
kab
2022-12-09 6:24:17 PM  
Is the pc port fixed yet?
 
2022-12-09 6:34:06 PM  

kab: Is the pc port fixed yet?


Was it broken? I played on PC starting shortly after launch, all the way through. Very few bugs.
 
2022-12-09 7:37:40 PM  
Eh, everyone knows the absolute pinnacle of video game story and narrative immersion was long ago.

legendsoflocalization.comView Full Size
 
2022-12-09 7:55:58 PM  

ItWas2Minutes5MinutesAgo: Cthulhu Theory: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Cthulhu Theory: snowjack: I bought a copy of Elden Ring based on all the good press, not realizing it was another Dark Souls type game. Played it for about a half hour, got bored, haven't tried again since. I guess I need a little more story than you get with those games to keep me interested.

The story is there, it's just not spoonfed to you like it is with GoW Ragnarok.

It's a game that rewards investing effort into learning mechanics as well as attention to detail and exploration. Everything in it tells a portion of the story. Downside is the average person isn't adept at interpreting all the stuff in the game, so they have to rely on hour long lore vids to explain everything.

So they made a game - one in which a majority of people who play it - and that's what average is - won't be able to understand WTF is going on without large investments of their time searching outside sources?  Personally that's what I'd call bad design in a "You need to worrrrrrrk for itttt." costume

I didn't say that.

What I said is the *lore* is made more accessible via videos that explain the things the game isn't explicit about, things which the average gamer isn't going to necessarily pick up on because they're used to being spoonfed exposition through dialogue and data logs.

Whether or not you like that kind of gameplay, games that don't hold your hand every step of the way, will have a massive impact on whether or not you like a game like this. However, calling it "bad design" because you didn't bother paying attention to anything in the game and got confused or bored is a you problem, not a design problem.

I think you hit the nail on the head. i LOVE the fact I have to explore to get the story. Hell most of the games I played as a kid you had to read a story in the booklet that came with it if you wanted to know the story. Does Super Mario Brothers have a story that's told as you progress? No. You jump on turtles and move on. Elden Ring ...


I mean sure, y'all would.  'Cause that's what you like.  What I'm saying is there is quite a large portion of the market that's not so much - and they have money too.  From a company's perspective locking it into a specific demographic when some within reason optioning would make it accessible to more people with full wallets... it seems counterproductive
 
2022-12-09 10:12:31 PM  

mongbiohazard: The "lore" is a big mish-mashed, fantasy gish-gallop. It seems... inventive I guess, but a good deal of it is incoherent and nonsensical.


That is Miyazaki's thing and it is intentional.  He's recreating for us the experience he had as a kid reading books too complicated for him at the time, or in English which he didn't have the best grip of.  What he didn't understand, he misinterpreted or his imagination filled the blanks.  And he loved them, even when he revisited the works later only to realize how terribly wrong he gotten the stories.

It's more William Burroughs than Mark Twain or Jane Austen.  He wants us to come up with all kinds of wild speculations and hare-brained assumptions.  I'm sorry you hate it, but there are far more storytellers that are clear and concise than there are encouraging you to be as delusional as Quixote, so I'm really glad he carved out space to let the Epileptic Trees thrive.
 
2022-12-09 10:42:35 PM  
I like dense story telling as much or more than the next guy. I like deep lore that isn't readily apparent. Such games are fun to me.

I don't enjoy Souls-like games, though. Mechanical difficulty is a different thing entirely.

There can be correlation but there are many games with great lore that encourage exploration that aren't full of mechanical difficulty.
 
2022-12-09 11:15:40 PM  
Really deserved GOTY. So nice to see a niche genre of games get the attention they deserve. Quality everything from a design team that values their work and respects the player bases intelligence and inquisitiveness. Shows that good games made by people who love the medium and make games for people who love games for their unique to their medium aspects can sell well. You love to see it.

Even if the game awards and anything really related to "game critique" is a hellscape, it's nice to see the good stuff get the limelight.
 
2022-12-09 11:25:03 PM  

DrunkenBob: so I'm really glad he carved out space to let the Epileptic Trees thrive.


Perfect -- a reference to Lost -- another fictional world where it was obvious from the beginning that the writers had no idea where they were going, and were just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what would stick. I never understood how people found that remotely watchable.
 
2022-12-09 11:36:00 PM  

snowjack: DrunkenBob: so I'm really glad he carved out space to let the Epileptic Trees thrive.

Perfect -- a reference to Lost -- another fictional world where it was obvious from the beginning that the writers had no idea where they were going, and were just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what would stick. I never understood how people found that remotely watchable.


The mystery box thing worked for about 1 season, and that was it. Once you saw they didn't have any idea of where it was going, i checked out.
 
2022-12-09 11:45:45 PM  

mongbiohazard: The "lore" is a big mish-mashed, fantasy gish-gallop. It seems... inventive I guess, but a good deal of it is incoherent and nonsensical.


That's a perfect description. I totally understand that there are non-story game elements that a lot of people clearly find highly engaging and entertaining, and I don't mean to disrespect anyone who likes these games. But for whatever reason, my brain just doesn't want to engage with games that don't have a decent story behind them. They're just not for me.

I don't need to have a great story -- for example, I loved Death Stranding (except for the last couple chapters). The story and the characters are silly, but they were just good enough to get my conscious mind to shut the hell up and just enjoy the atmosphere, the whole dreamlike experience.
 
2022-12-09 11:59:18 PM  

snowjack: mongbiohazard: The "lore" is a big mish-mashed, fantasy gish-gallop. It seems... inventive I guess, but a good deal of it is incoherent and nonsensical.

That's a perfect description. I totally understand that there are non-story game elements that a lot of people clearly find highly engaging and entertaining, and I don't mean to disrespect anyone who likes these games. But for whatever reason, my brain just doesn't want to engage with games that don't have a decent story behind them. They're just not for me.

I don't need to have a great story -- for example, I loved Death Stranding (except for the last couple chapters). The story and the characters are silly, but they were just good enough to get my conscious mind to shut the hell up and just enjoy the atmosphere, the whole dreamlike experience.


Death stranding was a meditative game for me. Just delivering and listening to music.

Similarly, I played elite dangerous single player in VR and just mined while listening to music.
 
2022-12-10 12:05:29 AM  
RyansPrivates:Death stranding was a meditative game for me. Just delivering and listening to music.

Similarly, I played elite dangerous single player in VR and just mined while listening to music.


And the music was really good! It wasn't what I'd consider 'my style' but it really grew on me and I loved it. I never played ED -- maybe I should put it on my list...
 
2022-12-10 12:13:57 AM  

snowjack: RyansPrivates:Death stranding was a meditative game for me. Just delivering and listening to music.

Similarly, I played elite dangerous single player in VR and just mined while listening to music.

And the music was really good! It wasn't what I'd consider 'my style' but it really grew on me and I loved it. I never played ED -- maybe I should put it on my list...


Learning curve was a bit steep and i never did the piracy thing. I was always a miner, so my experience was very nichr
 
2022-12-10 12:36:16 AM  

RoLleRKoaSTeR: Marcos P: Did they give that shiat ultrawide and more than 60 fps yet?

Playing LoTRO at Ultra-Wide with 144hz monitors.
LoL
Yep, taxing the game engine on a 3090 FE


Fwiw, the implemented scaling text years ago.
 
2022-12-10 1:41:36 AM  

DrunkenBob: mongbiohazard: The "lore" is a big mish-mashed, fantasy gish-gallop. It seems... inventive I guess, but a good deal of it is incoherent and nonsensical.

That is Miyazaki's thing and it is intentional.  He's recreating for us the experience he had as a kid reading books too complicated for him at the time, or in English which he didn't have the best grip of.  What he didn't understand, he misinterpreted or his imagination filled the blanks.  And he loved them, even when he revisited the works later only to realize how terribly wrong he gotten the stories.

It's more William Burroughs than Mark Twain or Jane Austen.  He wants us to come up with all kinds of wild speculations and hare-brained assumptions.  I'm sorry you hate it, but there are far more storytellers that are clear and concise than there are encouraging you to be as delusional as Quixote, so I'm really glad he carved out space to let the Epileptic Trees thrive.


Setting aside anything else, it was pretty neat. Just...

At one point I was talking to this lady who wanted me to go find her soul, and then find her body, and I'm like... who just sold me all that shiat then? Is this some sort of tax avoidance scheme?

I pretty quickly was just going with the flow, and not really worrying about making heads or tails of it. "Ooooh, this guy's really pissed off! Lookit 'im go! Spectacular!" The creatures are creepy and neat, the art design is great, the gameplay is good... There's a lot to like even if your brain is just checked out on bothering to make much sense of the lore or whatnot. "OK, buddy. I'll take your word on it on why you wanna destroy my sweet little tarnished ass. En garde!"
 
2022-12-10 4:15:28 PM  

BafflerMeal: RoLleRKoaSTeR: Marcos P: Did they give that shiat ultrawide and more than 60 fps yet?

Playing LoTRO at Ultra-Wide with 144hz monitors.
LoL
Yep, taxing the game engine on a 3090 FE

Fwiw, the implemented scaling text years ago.


It's still broke at 4k though - but yeah they had to.  Modern screen size and assets made for 800X600 is a pretty crunchy combination
 
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