Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Kotaku)   Microsoft is letting their workers at ZeniMax unionize, basically just leaving open their Gates   (kotaku.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Activision, Video game industry, Trade union, Employment, union drives, Quality assurance, Bethesda Softworks, gaming industry's recent wave  
•       •       •

593 clicks; posted to Fandom » and STEM » on 07 Dec 2022 at 12:05 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



28 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-12-07 12:13:05 PM  
Wait....do we qualify as QA testers?
 
2022-12-07 12:21:43 PM  
Great!

That way, you can work your way up from Tester, 3rd class, single player, Non FPS, Console, 1080p , Non-Microtransaction. to

Tester, 1st class, multiplayer, FPS, PC, 4k, Microtransaction.

But only if you meet seniority, there are openings, your dues are paid, and you have an inside track with the union steward.
 
2022-12-07 12:40:27 PM  

AlphaG33k: Great!

That way, you can work your way up from Tester, 3rd class, single player, Non FPS, Console, 1080p , Non-Microtransaction. to

Tester, 1st class, multiplayer, FPS, PC, 4k, Microtransaction.

But only if you meet seniority, there are openings, your dues are paid, and you have an inside track with the union steward.


Bold of you to assume that anything from ZeniMax/Bethesda gets tested before release.
 
2022-12-07 12:46:04 PM  

Concrete Donkey: Wait....do we qualify as QA testers?


According to Activision, Bethesda, Ubisoft, etc, we're freelance volunteers.
 
2022-12-07 1:07:46 PM  

LucklessWonder: AlphaG33k: Great!

That way, you can work your way up from Tester, 3rd class, single player, Non FPS, Console, 1080p , Non-Microtransaction. to

Tester, 1st class, multiplayer, FPS, PC, 4k, Microtransaction.

But only if you meet seniority, there are openings, your dues are paid, and you have an inside track with the union steward.

Bold of you to assume that anything from ZeniMax/Bethesda gets tested before release.


Microsoft "QA" Process: It compiles! Ship It!
 
2022-12-07 1:22:05 PM  
Seems awfully magnanimous of Microsoft, if you're completely ignorant of labor law and fail to understand that they have no legal ability to stop workers from unionizing.
 
2022-12-07 1:31:07 PM  

JessieL: Seems awfully magnanimous of Microsoft, if you're completely ignorant of labor law and fail to understand that they have no legal ability to stop workers from unionizing.


They have no legal ability to interfere, however they also aren't technically owners of the company yet either, it's still awaiting approval for the merger. So for them to pledge to remain neutral, instruct Zenimax managers to remain neutral and to pledge to recognize the union is more than they needed to do. Of course it's not altruistic of the company at all.

I think it's great that the workers realized that they had this opportunity as well, any action by Microsoft could potentially derail their billion dollar acquisition. Best time to do this as MS is very financially motivated to look as good to regulators as humanly possible.
 
2022-12-07 1:56:00 PM  
Unions are great...in certain industries.

If the work doesnt change much, but requires doing lots of the same thing, and where experience is highly correlated to productivity or efficiency, and people are likely to spend a long time doing that job, unions make sense. Dock workers, auto factory assemblers, lathe operators, grocery associates, etc, all makes sense.

The videogame industry is as volatile as it gets, how is a union supposed to manage such a dynamic and short lived base of workers? Thats the bigger issue, can they sustain and make it work longer than a couple years, especially if a couple key workers get promoted or leave and the driving unionization impetus wanes.

Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.
 
2022-12-07 2:11:20 PM  

zbtop: Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.


Do you think there could be a correlation between unionization and more long term stability in jobs, perchance?
 
2022-12-07 2:14:51 PM  
People who say Bliz or whoever does no QA before shipping are telling me they've never done any computer programming, or just like beating dead horses.

/ducks and runs
 
2022-12-07 2:20:04 PM  

grumpfuff: People who say Bliz or whoever does no QA before shipping are telling me they've never done any computer programming, or just like beating dead horses.

/ducks and runs


I QA for a living and I'm aware that Blizzard do do QA, and so do Bethesda etc, but SO much of there stuff is memetically buggy on release, and fark does so love to beat a joke into the ground...
 
2022-12-07 2:39:18 PM  

zbtop: Unions are great...in certain industries.

If the work doesnt change much, but requires doing lots of the same thing, and where experience is highly correlated to productivity or efficiency, and people are likely to spend a long time doing that job, unions make sense. Dock workers, auto factory assemblers, lathe operators, grocery associates, etc, all makes sense.

The videogame industry is as volatile as it gets, how is a union supposed to manage such a dynamic and short lived base of workers? Thats the bigger issue, can they sustain and make it work longer than a couple years, especially if a couple key workers get promoted or leave and the driving unionization impetus wanes.

Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.


Isn't part of the turnover rate based on the fact that software development is a terrible murder factory of bad working conditions?

/why yes I work in IT.
 
2022-12-07 2:51:33 PM  

zbtop: Unions are great...in certain industries.

If the work doesnt change much, but requires doing lots of the same thing, and where experience is highly correlated to productivity or efficiency, and people are likely to spend a long time doing that job, unions make sense. Dock workers, auto factory assemblers, lathe operators, grocery associates, etc, all makes sense.

The videogame industry is as volatile as it gets, how is a union supposed to manage such a dynamic and short lived base of workers? Thats the bigger issue, can they sustain and make it work longer than a couple years, especially if a couple key workers get promoted or leave and the driving unionization impetus wanes.

Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.


QA is actually a very repetitive job - it means testing everything a player can possibly try, methodically, to figure out what breaks so devs can fix most of the problems before an actual player find them.

Unions are also one of the things that help get turnover rates down. When they have bargaining power to get wages up and hours down to sane levels, there's less burnout, and less people looking to work anywhere but there.
 
2022-12-07 3:01:37 PM  

LucklessWonder: grumpfuff: People who say Bliz or whoever does no QA before shipping are telling me they've never done any computer programming, or just like beating dead horses.

/ducks and runs

I QA for a living and I'm aware that Blizzard do do QA, and so do Bethesda etc, but SO much of there stuff is memetically buggy on release, and fark does so love to beat a joke into the ground...


You should see how buggy Bethesda stuff is before they do QA.

/no to mention, some bugs become fan favorites
//Bethesda has fixed a couple bugs only to unfix them when fans complained
///that's why giants still launch you into space in Skyrim
 
2022-12-07 3:03:40 PM  

grumpfuff: /no to mention, some bugs become fan favorites


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodBadBugs
 
2022-12-07 3:05:51 PM  

trerro: QA is actually a very repetitive job - it means testing everything a player can possibly try, methodically, to figure out what breaks so devs can fix most of the problems before an actual player find them.


And that's why open world games like TES or FO are more prone to bugs at shipping, because who the f*ck is going go through EVERY possible action someone can take? I remember a couple bugs that only came up if you did specific things in a specific sequence that no one would ever think to test. I don't remember the exact details but I remember reading about a bug that was something like

Step 1: Being quest A
Step 2: Begin quest B
Step 3: Complete, but do not turn in, quest A
Step 4: Begin quest C
Step 5: Do part of quest B
Step 6: Oops, quest W is now broken
 
2022-12-07 3:06:55 PM  

LucklessWonder: grumpfuff: /no to mention, some bugs become fan favorites

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodBadBugs


Damn you for getting me into a TV Tropes hole for a favorite thing of mine that I did not know they have a page on.
 
2022-12-07 3:08:21 PM  
If it's anything like SkineMax, I would like an application.
 
2022-12-07 3:40:24 PM  
I don't believe that Bethesda has QA employees.
 
2022-12-07 3:43:09 PM  

zbtop: Unions are great...in certain industries.

If the work doesnt change much, but requires doing lots of the same thing, and where experience is highly correlated to productivity or efficiency, and people are likely to spend a long time doing that job, unions make sense. Dock workers, auto factory assemblers, lathe operators, grocery associates, etc, all makes sense.

The videogame industry is as volatile as it gets, how is a union supposed to manage such a dynamic and short lived base of workers? Thats the bigger issue, can they sustain and make it work longer than a couple years, especially if a couple key workers get promoted or leave and the driving unionization impetus wanes.

Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.


The reason it is an ephemeral job is because the standard was to just outsource it to farking temps who you can fire if they work enough to have to treat differently or if they start asking for ridiculous things like health care or days off.
 
2022-12-07 4:58:53 PM  

LucklessWonder: zbtop: Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.

Do you think there could be a correlation between unionization and more long term stability in jobs, perchance?


Are you sure you work in the game industry?
 
2022-12-07 5:54:39 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: LucklessWonder: zbtop: Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.

Do you think there could be a correlation between unionization and more long term stability in jobs, perchance?

Are you sure you work in the game industry?


I do not work in the games industry.
 
2022-12-07 6:20:11 PM  
Earlier this year, Fallout 76 put out an expansion called the Pitt where you could join a faction called the Union.

Coinkydink?

Yeah, probably.  But from now on my head-canon will change that group's origins from steel workers to computer programmers.
 
2022-12-07 7:08:54 PM  

LucklessWonder: zbtop: Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.

Do you think there could be a correlation between unionization and more long term stability in jobs, perchance?


I suppose one could, but I'd argue that as technologies shift/platforms change/skillsets mutate/etc, it's just a much more dynamic industry.

Like, the question of if your employer will even exist in 5/10/20 years is a much larger one in software than most traditionally unionized industries.

I'm currently a data analyst. I used to work in IT. I've also done software QA over the last 20 or so years. I get that grind, and I'm genuinely not against unions.

However, most of my various employers over the years don't even exist anymore, and of those that do, the positions mostly don't. Even the old Sony testing farm doesn't exist the way it used to. None of them operate anything like they did when I was employed there. 15 years ago being an A+ Certified wrench monkey who knew how to swap a hard drive and video card, and a handful of networking bits, could get you a job in IT almost anywhere, now if a component fails the unit just gets sent back in to Dell and if there's a network issue someone else handles it in a centralized support center better suited to handle the task. That job just doesn't exist the same way as say, being a grocery worker or longshoreman still does. If you were a software designer at MySpace, how relevant do your skills remain today versus an auto mechanic from the same era who may still work or own the same garage.

Looking successful, resilient unions, they're not typically in highly dynamic constantly evolving industries. Agriculture, large scale manufacturing, government work, grocery stores, warehouse workers, longshoreman, iron workers, etc, sure.

Of everyone I know still in IT, the only ones still working for the same employer they were 5 years ago work for defense contractors. I think that's more a condition of the industry's inherent dynamism more than a reflection of the abusive power of Capital over Labor. Looking at my own IT dept at work, we have problems keeping people not because they hate working for us, but because they keep getting hired away as soon as they're worth anything.
 
2022-12-07 9:26:58 PM  

zbtop: Unions are great...in certain industries.

If the work doesnt change much, but requires doing lots of the same thing, and where experience is highly correlated to productivity or efficiency, and people are likely to spend a long time doing that job, unions make sense. Dock workers, auto factory assemblers, lathe operators, grocery associates, etc, all makes sense.

The videogame industry is as volatile as it gets, how is a union supposed to manage such a dynamic and short lived base of workers? Thats the bigger issue, can they sustain and make it work longer than a couple years, especially if a couple key workers get promoted or leave and the driving unionization impetus wanes.

Like, a union is great when you know you're gonna have a job in 20 years if you stick it out. If the average turnover rate in your industry is measured in months or just a couple years however, thats a different prospect.


The entertainment industry unions have the unstable job thing covered by acting as guilds.  But for that style of union to work it requires that the union is self-policing for quality work.  You don't get in until you apprentice long enough to prove you don't suck.  That way when a TV show or a movie is in planning stages they know if they get union riggers or gaffers or writers or whatever the product is less likely to suck.

Does anybody remember 18 Wheels of Justice with Lorenzo Lamas in it?  Non union production on the cheap and it suuuuuuuucked.
 
2022-12-07 9:55:45 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: however they also aren't technically owners of the company yet either, it's still awaiting approval for the merger.


Are you thinking of Activision? MS has owned ZeniMax already for a couple of years now.
 
2022-12-07 10:26:03 PM  

grumpfuff: LucklessWonder: grumpfuff: /no to mention, some bugs become fan favorites

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodBadBugs

Damn you for getting me into a TV Tropes hole for a favorite thing of mine that I did not know they have a page on.


Just to add on, the Skyrim bug of giants launching things into space not being included gave me a sad, unless I missed it.

/that's one of the fixed bugs that was unfixed, if you didnt know
 
2022-12-08 9:06:19 AM  

The Bestest: Lumbar Puncture: however they also aren't technically owners of the company yet either, it's still awaiting approval for the merger.

Are you thinking of Activision? MS has owned ZeniMax already for a couple of years now.


You're right, I'm thinking Activision, I they've got employees doing the same at the moment too.
 
Displayed 28 of 28 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.