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(BBC-US)   Blinken says US "neither encouraged nor enabled" Ukraine attacks on Russian soil, but we understand   (bbc.com) divider line
    More: Followup, US-led Nato, military alliance, Ukraine, NATO, Romania, providing such arms, Kiev, Russia  
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929 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Dec 2022 at 9:05 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-12-07 8:42:43 AM  
'...but to be fair, we DID both laugh our asses off when it happened. I mean, when an invading country tries to climb onto a cross because they get hit back after throwing a hundred and fifty thousand troops across the border, that's some funny sh*t."
 
2022-12-07 8:49:13 AM  
"ohnostopwhatevershallbedone"
 
2022-12-07 8:55:44 AM  
Oh, dear. Suffering from a "special operation?" Those can be frustrating, no?

Okay then, happy holidays!
 
2022-12-07 9:06:57 AM  
Good. Russians don't deserve safety in their own country. Not any farking more.
 
2022-12-07 9:08:19 AM  
I encourage it. If a country invades another country for no good reason, they can't whine when the favor is returned. They have 0 moral high ground until and unless they surrender. Regardless of what Ukraine does.
 
2022-12-07 9:13:04 AM  
I don't think America minds so much as making clear that no NATO soldiers or equipment was involved, otherwise the message is pretty much Chris Rock: "I don't necessarily agree - but I understand."
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-07 9:13:11 AM  

LL316: I encourage it. If a country invades another country for no good reason, they can't whine when the favor is returned. They have 0 moral high ground until and unless they surrender. Regardless of what Ukraine does.


They can whine, we shouldn't take it seriously.

Even at the diplomatic level the response should be, "Are you really whining about starting a fight and discovering your target can hit back? That's both contemptible and pathetic."
 
2022-12-07 9:13:12 AM  
Gee, Russia, what's the specific complaint?

Are they not respecting borders that they agreed to by signature years ago? Are they targeting your sovereign nation's infrastructure? Are your historic sites being damaged? Do you have people displaced from their homes or workplaces?

What exactly is the issue here?
 
2022-12-07 9:13:33 AM  
What's Nod and Winkin saying?
 
2022-12-07 9:16:54 AM  
The Russians should be happy that the Ukrainians are actually targeting military installations instead of just indiscriminately attacking apartment buildings and hospitals.
 
2022-12-07 9:17:44 AM  

LL316: I encourage it. If a country invades another country for no good reason, they can't whine when the favor is returned. They have 0 moral high ground until and unless they surrender. Regardless of what Ukraine does.


The thing is, Ukraine isn't returning the favor - these strikes were solely focused on military targets. Russia has been targeting civilians (both directly, like attacking apartment buildings, hospitals, etc., and indirectly, like attacking the power grid as winter sets in).

I can't say I would approve of any attacks by Ukraine on Russian civilians, but I would understand.
 
2022-12-07 9:17:49 AM  
I have one crazy trick that Vlad can use to stop such attacks.
 
2022-12-07 9:18:17 AM  

spongeboob: What's Nod and Winkin saying?



They can neither confirm nor deny the attacks
 
2022-12-07 9:22:18 AM  
Gee Russia, you go in to your neighbor, commit a lot of war crimes and try to occupy a people who don't want to be occupied because somewhere up the chain your leader thinks they are an astringed relative that wants back in the family then you're surprised said country is infiltrating your (laughable) military installations and striking back?

What did you think was going to happen?
 
2022-12-07 9:24:24 AM  
This is about as stupid as a school bully whining that one of their victims gave it a bloody nose from a random elbow flailing during a beating.

"Red line"?  Bullshiat.  Ukraine isn't bombarding Russian cities indiscriminately the way Putin is doing in Ukraine.  These airports are 100% valid targets.
 
2022-12-07 9:25:04 AM  
Typical bully mentality.   Crying after they get hit back.

Say, the US Army just took delivery of its first ground based Tomahawks.    It'd be a shame if some accidentally got sent to Ukraine.    Logistics is tricky, eh Vlad?  Yeah, a real shame.
 
2022-12-07 9:25:46 AM  
I was really surprised to hear that Cold War Russia had gone from actively teaching that the US just had bad leaders who hate the Soviet Union, but the people were warm and friendly - to Americans hate us, their cities are dangerous and crime ridden, corruption is everywhere, and you never want to be there.  A native Russian was telling me about Young Pioneers -- Russia's equivalent of Boy Scouts or Hitler Youth -- and what they're taught.   Almost sounded like church camp.

I knew the shift had happened. I hadn't realized it happened so early.

The Russians today are not the Cold War Russians.  The are much more strident in their hate of America.  It parallels the Russian Church, which never even had to learn toleration from centuries of Reformation and Counterreformation wars and conflicts, and believes than anything other than Russian Orthodox is a heretic sect asking to be killed.
 
2022-12-07 9:27:41 AM  
*wink*
 
2022-12-07 9:28:20 AM  
It's wierd they thought they'd commit atrocities and genocide against a neighboring country and that country's army wouldn't fight back against them by striking inside their own borders.
 
2022-12-07 9:29:30 AM  

hotrod2001: Gee Russia, you go in to your neighbor, commit a lot of war crimes and try to occupy a people who don't want to be occupied because somewhere up the chain your leader thinks they are an astringed relative that wants back in the family then you're surprised said country is infiltrating your (laughable) military installations and striking back?

What did you think was going to happen?


What's an astringed relative? A family member just trying to keep their nose clean?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-07 9:29:52 AM  
We should be helping them.  Russia would end this war in pretty short order if Ukraine could take the conflict to their actual enemy rather than destroying their own nation in order to save it.
 
2022-12-07 9:30:48 AM  

BitwiseShift: hate us, their cities are dangerous and crime ridden, corruption is everywhere


but enough about Republicans
 
2022-12-07 9:31:37 AM  

Nuc_E: Typical bully mentality.   Crying after they get hit back.

Say, the US Army just took delivery of its first ground based Tomahawks.    It'd be a shame if some accidentally got sent to Ukraine.    Logistics is tricky, eh Vlad?  Yeah, a real shame.


Why waste the Tomahawks, Ukraine used some old Russian V-2 looking drones and they made it past air defense systems and struck two high value targets. They MAY have had a little help from NATO intel sources, but I doubt Russia can fill the holes and gaps in time to stop the next wave of WWII tech.
 
2022-12-07 9:32:05 AM  

Unsung_Hero: LL316: I encourage it. If a country invades another country for no good reason, they can't whine when the favor is returned. They have 0 moral high ground until and unless they surrender. Regardless of what Ukraine does.

They can whine, we shouldn't take it seriously.

Even at the diplomatic level the response should be, "Are you really whining about starting a fight and discovering your target can hit back? That's both contemptible and pathetic."


And the response should be delivered EXACTLY like this:
The Hunt for Red October Andrei you have lost another submarine
Youtube HCHGFkhxInM
 
2022-12-07 9:32:17 AM  

hardinparamedic: It's wierd they thought they'd commit atrocities and genocide against a neighboring country and that country's army wouldn't fight back against them by striking inside their own borders.


It seems they really ate the propaganda and thought they'd have that little podunk Ukraine and it's western cronies cowed before that was even a possibility.
Hoping reality was a swift kick in the balls.
 
2022-12-07 9:35:37 AM  
This is right up there with saying the US gave HIMARS that were geo-locked supposedly.


Fark user imageView Full Size
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/us-ukraine-himars-no-atacms-russia/

Because the same hackers that Nebraska farmers are buying software from to bypass John Deere lockouts are going to be stopped by some flimsy firmware....
 
2022-12-07 9:36:49 AM  

Mouren: hardinparamedic: It's wierd they thought they'd commit atrocities and genocide against a neighboring country and that country's army wouldn't fight back against them by striking inside their own borders.

It seems they really ate the propaganda and thought they'd have that little podunk Ukraine and it's western cronies cowed before that was even a possibility.
Hoping reality was a swift kick in the balls.


Not only they thought that, they also thought it was something the majority of Ukrainians (specifically Russian-Ukranians) wanted.

The fact that people in Eastern Ukraine are celebrating when the Ukrainian army liberates these places despite their history of being pro-Russia says it all.
 
2022-12-07 9:38:17 AM  

DarnoKonrad: We should be helping them.  Russia would end this war in pretty short order if Ukraine could take the conflict to their actual enemy rather than destroying their own nation in order to save it.


They are taking the conflict to the enemy. That's literally what this thread is about.
 
2022-12-07 9:38:27 AM  
He's mad about little drone strikes in remote areas when he deserves major explosions in Moscow's government and military structure.  Why even answer this with diplomacy?
 
2022-12-07 9:38:59 AM  
I really don't care if Ukraine used US or NATO assets to attack russia. Why shouldn't they? Because Putin is going to escalate the war? How? He's already being a complete barbarian.
 
2022-12-07 9:39:26 AM  

The Dog Ate My Homework: I really don't care if Ukraine used US or NATO assets to attack russia. Why shouldn't they? Because Putin is going to escalate the war? How? He's already being a complete barbarian.


Attacking other countries would be something of a massive escalation
 
2022-12-07 9:41:06 AM  

clkeagle: Gee, Russia, what's the specific complaint?

Are they not respecting borders that they agreed to by signature years ago? Are they targeting your sovereign nation's infrastructure? Are your historic sites being damaged? Do you have people displaced from their homes or workplaces?

What exactly is the issue here?


Hey, that pile of tires has been on fire for fifty years! It's a historic Soviet cultural landmark!
 
2022-12-07 9:43:00 AM  
Is it weird to anyone else how Russia targets hospitals and malls while Ukraine hit airfields?
 
2022-12-07 9:43:42 AM  
tse4.mm.bing.netView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-07 9:45:34 AM  

mattj1984: Is it weird to anyone else how Russia targets hospitals and malls while Ukraine hit airfields?


Weird? No.

Completely on brand for Russia? Yes.
 
2022-12-07 9:46:03 AM  

hardinparamedic: It's wierd they thought they'd commit atrocities and genocide against a neighboring country and that country's army wouldn't fight back against them by striking inside their own borders.


It's like they forgot that Ukraine used to part of the USSR. That the folks in charge there were trained by the same sorts of folks in their corps. And that the USSR was sooper about insurgents and planting folks across borders to wreak havoc behind the lines and hitting critical infrastructure to hamstring a war effort.

Ukraine just decided to NOT go for stripping their country for everything that wasn't nailed down to sell on the open market, but their military and their intelligence services both have the same roots as the Russian military. And that sending folks across borders to operate independently, is kind of by the standard playbook for both of them.

How DARE Ukraine learn from the lessons of Crimea?
 
2022-12-07 9:48:54 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: He's mad about little drone strikes in remote areas when he deserves major explosions in Moscow's government and military structure.  Why even answer this with diplomacy?


This.


When asked about it, say our regional ambassador might have something to say. As for now we remain committed to supporting Ukraine.
 
2022-12-07 9:54:27 AM  

hardinparamedic: It's wierd they thought they'd commit atrocities and genocide against a neighboring country and that country's army wouldn't fight back against them by striking inside their own borders.


The "soldiers" in Russian uniforms in Ukraine are from the Muslim former soviet bloc -- Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyz..stan, Chechnya.  They're Muslim.  Russian is not their first language.  There first language is written in Cyrillic instead of the Arabic script they used until the 1920s.

Defending their "native land" would need a very long train ride to get there.  They're doing the dirty work that Russians won't do.  Russian riot police and prison police keep them in line.
 
2022-12-07 9:56:42 AM  
"Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly warned the US and its allies not to cross "red lines" by supplying long-range weapons to Ukraine."

Ukraine: "Okay, be that way."

thedrive.comView Full Size


Converts Soviet drone into long range missile.
 
2022-12-07 10:04:07 AM  

Unsung_Hero: LL316: I encourage it. If a country invades another country for no good reason, they can't whine when the favor is returned. They have 0 moral high ground until and unless they surrender. Regardless of what Ukraine does.

They can whine, we shouldn't take it seriously.

Even at the diplomatic level the response should be, "Are you really whining about starting a fight and discovering your target can hit back? That's both contemptible and pathetic."


That's exactly how I would frame it.  Almost verbatim.

Probably why I can't get hired by the State Department.  :-/
 
2022-12-07 10:07:54 AM  

hubiestubert: hardinparamedic: It's wierd they thought they'd commit atrocities and genocide against a neighboring country and that country's army wouldn't fight back against them by striking inside their own borders.

It's like they forgot that Ukraine used to part of the USSR. That the folks in charge there were trained by the same sorts of folks in their corps. And that the USSR was sooper about insurgents and planting folks across borders to wreak havoc behind the lines and hitting critical infrastructure to hamstring a war effort.

Ukraine just decided to NOT go for stripping their country for everything that wasn't nailed down to sell on the open market, but their military and their intelligence services both have the same roots as the Russian military. And that sending folks across borders to operate independently, is kind of by the standard playbook for both of them.

How DARE Ukraine learn from the lessons of Crimea?


It seems increasingly clear that much of the "vaunted" Soviet technological "prowess" was due to the fact that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.
 
2022-12-07 10:17:38 AM  
This just proves that Russias fear was justified!  Look at Ukraine attacking the Motherland!
 
2022-12-07 10:17:53 AM  

xanadian: Unsung_Hero: LL316: I encourage it. If a country invades another country for no good reason, they can't whine when the favor is returned. They have 0 moral high ground until and unless they surrender. Regardless of what Ukraine does.

They can whine, we shouldn't take it seriously.

Even at the diplomatic level the response should be, "Are you really whining about starting a fight and discovering your target can hit back? That's both contemptible and pathetic."

That's exactly how I would frame it.  Almost verbatim.

Probably why I can't get hired by the State Department.  :-/


You have to be very, very smart and well educated to pass that Foreign Service Officer test.  Being in the top 1-2% gets you into the exam, but doesn't guarantee you'll pass into the first interview.
 
2022-12-07 10:30:13 AM  
Speak for yourself Tony. I've been calling for just this for 6 months
 
2022-12-07 10:33:53 AM  
Thoughts and prayers Vlad.
 
2022-12-07 10:40:22 AM  

Vansthing: Nuc_E: Typical bully mentality.   Crying after they get hit back.

Say, the US Army just took delivery of its first ground based Tomahawks.    It'd be a shame if some accidentally got sent to Ukraine.    Logistics is tricky, eh Vlad?  Yeah, a real shame.

Why waste the Tomahawks, Ukraine used some old Russian V-2 looking drones and they made it past air defense systems and struck two high value targets. They MAY have had a little help from NATO intel sources, but I doubt Russia can fill the holes and gaps in time to stop the next wave of WWII tech.


Hey now, it was an honest mistake that those missiles and launchers were sent to Ukraine.   Honest.   Mistake.


In reality?   Much like the "Hi.   Look where we've had our boomers" public disclosures.  To send a message.
 
2022-12-07 10:44:44 AM  
I mean, the way I've been hearing it, that airbase attack was, at best, a qualified success, and at worst, mostly repelled.

Does that sound like the track record the Ukranian military has been setting all this time?  It's almost as if some vital piece of support they'd previously enjoyed was missing...

I'd buy it, this one time anyway, if our leaders said they had nothing to do with it.  It fits, it passes the smell test for once.

Now, if the place had been leveled with no survivors... that'd be another story.
 
2022-12-07 10:44:48 AM  
If the US had supplied long range cruise missiles to Ukraine when this first started, this war would have most likely been over with inside of a month.

How do you even get the balls to say something like this? 'We are going to send missiles and aircraft deep into your country, rape, torture and kill your citizens, but DON'T YOU DARE even think about striking back into our country in any way.'
 
2022-12-07 10:48:44 AM  

Someone Else's Alt: If the US had supplied long range cruise missiles to Ukraine when this first started, this war would have most likely been over with inside of a month.

How do you even get the balls to say something like this? 'We are going to send missiles and aircraft deep into your country, rape, torture and kill your citizens, but DON'T YOU DARE even think about striking back into our country in any way.'


It worked.  If the world wasn't concerned aboit the consequences of crossing into Russia, Ukraine would have been given free hardware to take the fight to Moscow.
 
2022-12-07 10:49:48 AM  
Well, if the US "allows" Israel to do it then why not Ukraine.


/Except I believe Ukraine is truly justified in creating a DMZ on Russian soil, (just don't expand beyond what is excepted, [let's say 100 km]).
//K?TNKSBYE
 
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