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(KSTP St. Paul)   Mall of America vs Sears. FIGHT   (kstp.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, United States, original anchor tenant of the mall, Appeal, front of the United States Supreme Court, Washington, D.C., Arguments, Supreme Court of the United States, 100-year lease  
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1317 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Dec 2022 at 6:40 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



32 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-12-05 6:50:21 PM  
"The mall believes Transform Holdco will take advantage of the lease by subleasing the space."

Yup, that's kinda the point. They hold essentially free square footage at a popular destination...maybe don't sell cheap 100 year leases to retailers next time?
 
2022-12-05 6:55:17 PM  
In other news Mall of America is still a thing
 
2022-12-05 6:56:20 PM  
"Transform Holdco".  That's generically corporate.  Is the CEO just Bob Evil?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-05 7:14:47 PM  

Sasquach: "The mall believes Transform Holdco will take advantage of the lease by subleasing the space."

Yup, that's kinda the point. They hold essentially free square footage at a popular destination...maybe don't sell cheap 100 year leases to retailers next time?


well, it's sorta like the rent-controlled Manhattan apartment my late grandmother (who passed a decade ago) had that my cousin was living out of. Despite keeping up with rent and everything, they decided to kick him out this year.
 
2022-12-05 7:37:47 PM  

chitownmike: In other news Mall of America is still a thing


Mall of America is still packed, especially summers and holidays. It's not that all malls are dead. It's just that the current economy and shopping patterns only support about 1/3 of the malls that existed by the turn of the millennium.

The ones that are still viable are in affluent areas and/or have evolved to have something that wouldn't traditionally be part of a mall (the one closest to me added a Flix awhile back and is currently refurbishing a Younkers into a USHL hockey arena).
 
2022-12-05 7:41:11 PM  
The importance of well written contracts. Should have had a business continuity clause that required it to remain a Sears or whatever Sears rebranded as. But now you have a lease that's a business asset that's worth the difference.

/probably had a sublease clause that was used by Luxottica to run the optical department
//perhaps other departments
 
2022-12-05 8:23:25 PM  
The rise and fall of Sears is a tragic story bordering on a Shakespearean play.

There will be many PhD's awarded to future doctors who will argue "this is where it all went wrong" like war historians arguing the turning point of ww2.

But for now, I think I'll take another look at the Sears Christmas catalog I saved from when I was barely a teen.

Instead of the women's lingerie or toys section, I'll wistfully browse the Craftsman's tools and Kenmore sections.
 
2022-12-05 8:34:25 PM  

wildcardjack: The importance of well written contracts. Should have had a business continuity clause that required it to remain a Sears or whatever Sears rebranded as. But now you have a lease that's a business asset that's worth the difference.

/probably had a sublease clause that was used by Luxottica to run the optical department
//perhaps other departments


I bet if there was such a clause there wouldn't be a court case.
 
2022-12-05 8:43:19 PM  
The original lease: $10/year for 100 years.

No wonder Eddie Lampert ran out of money.  He ran out of idiots to scam, like Trump.
 
2022-12-05 8:50:59 PM  

NeoCortex42: "Transform Holdco".  That's generically corporate.  Is the CEO just Bob Evil?
[Fark user image 616x451]


I will not accept this as our star, sorry. ... Movie? Can I talk to your supervisor, movie?

 
2022-12-05 9:11:07 PM  
I'm against anything that helps Eddie Lamprey.

My son once worked for Kmart and his boss once let the boy listen in on a teleconference with Lampert talking to managers about how to run kmart stores.  My son later exclaimed, " it's like he's TRYING to kill all the stores!"

Yes, son. He was. And damn him to hell.
 
2022-12-05 9:16:41 PM  
Without seeing the actual lease and knowing which side wrote it, it is impossible to MMQB this. I am disappointed.
 
2022-12-05 9:29:26 PM  

Sasquach: "The mall believes Transform Holdco will take advantage of the lease by subleasing the space."

Yup, that's kinda the point. They hold essentially free square footage at a popular destination...maybe don't sell cheap 100 year leases to retailers next time?


Or maybe put in clauses preventing subleasing or transfers of the lease if the primary party goes bankrupt.

The mall did this to themselves by assuming Sears was too big to fail. Times change, plan accordingly.
 
2022-12-05 10:32:42 PM  

Omnivorous: The original lease: $10/year for 100 years.


In 1991... so it's been 31 years, 69 years to go.  If I cross their palms with $690, can I have the space?

/no farking idea what to with the space
//only that it has to be with blackjack and hookers
 
2022-12-05 11:05:44 PM  

Omnivorous: The original lease: $10/year for 100 years.

No wonder Eddie Lampert ran out of money.  He ran out of idiots to scam, like Trump.


Lampert wasn't in charge when the original lease was signed, no way the MOA would have signed the lease with Lampert running Sears.
 
2022-12-05 11:26:41 PM  

NeoCortex42: "Transform Holdco".  That's generically corporate.  Is the CEO just Bob Evil?
[Fark user image image 616x451]


Picture a 1980s action film. The cocky detective is snooping around a series of warehouses.  He slips in an open door as a box truck rumbles up the alley. The name on the box truck?  Transform Holdco.
 
2022-12-05 11:59:11 PM  
They had some kind of fair style shooting gallery with light guns there. I kept walking by with my laser pointer and setting off all the targets. So technically I had fun there.

/ Causing trouble.
 
2022-12-06 12:06:59 AM  
Just how vague is the contract language?
 
2022-12-06 1:09:26 AM  
Y'know what?  Let 'em sublease it.  They're gonna have to reconstruct their Sears into a new wing of the mall, and they're gonna get a bunch of tenants into those spaces, and you weren't planning on any additional income from that space anyway, so take the farking extra income that comes in from having all those new stores or whatever.
 
2022-12-06 4:23:59 AM  

Sasquach: "The mall believes Transform Holdco will take advantage of the lease by subleasing the space."

Yup, that's kinda the point. They hold essentially free square footage at a popular destination...maybe don't sell cheap 100 year leases to retailers next time?


You should say "they signed the dotted line", that makes you automatically right about everything. Not forgiving student loan debt, not helping morgage holders, and of course, malls being stuck with a shell company that has no connection to the store they signed up.

If they signed the dotted line, dotted.
 
2022-12-06 7:58:16 AM  
This website is dedicated to making sure all retail employees are Amazon warehouse workers apparently
 
2022-12-06 8:27:16 AM  
One of the reasons a lot of the Sears store were closed was the long term lease was up at the Malls and with zero power the Malls were raising the rates knowing Sears wouldn't be able to pay and now those spaces can hold 3 or 4 stores paying 10 times what the long term lease was paying the mall
 
2022-12-06 10:11:18 AM  

Warrior Kermit: and now those spaces can hold 3 or 4 stores paying 10 times what the long term lease was paying the mall


Only if the mall is in a financial position to demolish the Sears and build a new space. Some malls are still successful enough to do that. Many aren't.

Sears stores were massive. Farking massive. Clothing, jewelry, photo studio, gym equipment, catalog pickup area, appliances, electronics, tools, outdoor equipment, plus the tire shop/service center out in the parking lot. And they were anchor stores with one massive doorway to the mall and a handful of exterior doors. Many had second floors (upper or lower depending on grade) even if the rest of their mall didn't. You can't just slap up a couple of partition walls and have space ready to lease to other retailers.

That's why there are still dozens (if not hundreds) of Sears cadavers around the country, slowly rotting away and making their entire mall look like crap.
 
2022-12-06 11:14:35 AM  

chitownmike: In other news Mall of America is still a thing


It's those damn Canadians.
 
2022-12-06 11:42:21 AM  

clkeagle: Warrior Kermit: and now those spaces can hold 3 or 4 stores paying 10 times what the long term lease was paying the mall

Only if the mall is in a financial position to demolish the Sears and build a new space. Some malls are still successful enough to do that. Many aren't.

Sears stores were massive. Farking massive. Clothing, jewelry, photo studio, gym equipment, catalog pickup area, appliances, electronics, tools, outdoor equipment, plus the tire shop/service center out in the parking lot. And they were anchor stores with one massive doorway to the mall and a handful of exterior doors. Many had second floors (upper or lower depending on grade) even if the rest of their mall didn't. You can't just slap up a couple of partition walls and have space ready to lease to other retailers.

That's why there are still dozens (if not hundreds) of Sears cadavers around the country, slowly rotting away and making their entire mall look like crap.


Yeah, this space is three floors, and you could fit dozen normal-size mall stores on each of them.
Might actually be easier for this place than most Sears locations.
 
2022-12-06 11:47:50 AM  

clkeagle: Sears stores were massive. Farking massive. Clothing, jewelry, photo studio, gym equipment, catalog pickup area, appliances, electronics, tools, outdoor equipment, plus the tire shop/service center out in the parking lot. And they were anchor stores with one massive doorway to the mall and a handful of exterior doors. Many had second floors (upper or lower depending on grade) even if the rest of their mall didn't. You can't just slap up a couple of partition walls and have space ready to lease to other retailers.


I've explored a vacant Sears before (hey the door was unlocked, so why not?)....its hard to imagine how massive the spaces actually are. There was so much backroom space (likely parts were part of a salesfloor at one time and later walled off), office space, so many giant utility areas, etc.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-06 12:01:05 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: Sasquach: "The mall believes Transform Holdco will take advantage of the lease by subleasing the space."

Yup, that's kinda the point. They hold essentially free square footage at a popular destination...maybe don't sell cheap 100 year leases to retailers next time?

You should say "they signed the dotted line", that makes you automatically right about everything. Not forgiving student loan debt, not helping morgage holders, and of course, malls being stuck with a shell company that has no connection to the store they signed up.

If they signed the dotted line, dotted.


The Mall of America isn't some unsophisticated 18 year old kid.

It's a large corporation, with LOTS of experience leasing commercial real estate and loads of attorneys to make sure contracts are written appropriately.

Talk about painting with a broad brush...
 
2022-12-06 12:59:48 PM  

Minor Catastrophe: The rise and fall of Sears is a tragic story bordering on a Shakespearean play.

There will be many PhD's awarded to future doctors who will argue "this is where it all went wrong" like war historians arguing the turning point of ww2.

But for now, I think I'll take another look at the Sears Christmas catalog I saved from when I was barely a teen.

Instead of the women's lingerie or toys section, I'll wistfully browse the Craftsman's tools and Kenmore sections.


I still remember the first time I almost saw a nipple in a sears catalog. And then my mom walked in my room and caught me beating my dick like it owed me rent money.  We couldn't look each other in the eyes for a long time.
 
2022-12-06 2:40:49 PM  

MBZ321: clkeagle: Sears stores were massive. Farking massive. Clothing, jewelry, photo studio, gym equipment, catalog pickup area, appliances, electronics, tools, outdoor equipment, plus the tire shop/service center out in the parking lot. And they were anchor stores with one massive doorway to the mall and a handful of exterior doors. Many had second floors (upper or lower depending on grade) even if the rest of their mall didn't. You can't just slap up a couple of partition walls and have space ready to lease to other retailers.

I've explored a vacant Sears before (hey the door was unlocked, so why not?)....its hard to imagine how massive the spaces actually are. There was so much backroom space (likely parts were part of a salesfloor at one time and later walled off), office space, so many giant utility areas, etc.
[Fark user image image 850x637]


It might be the other way around, depending on the age of the store.

If it was a pre-Interstate store it probably needed a ton of backroom space. Freight used to be monthly instead of weekly. There was always some restock "in the back" for popular items. And in the weekly freight days, lots of backroom space was for the oversized display-only items like washers, dryers, dishwashers, ovens, furniture, mowers, snowblowers, grills, compressors, tool cabinets, etc. Don't forget that a stock of Kenmore refrigerators took up an entire trailer worth of floor space on their own, and most couldn't stack.

Even in the catalog days a ton of their backroom space was reserved for those orders. That space may not have been used the rest of the year but was probably overflowing in December.
 
2022-12-06 7:01:52 PM  
Since when does the SCOTUS decide in business dispute cases? It's usually a long trail from decision/appeals in the lower courts. And what does this have to do with the constitution?
 
2022-12-06 7:27:03 PM  

saturn badger: Since when does the SCOTUS decide in business dispute cases? It's usually a long trail from decision/appeals in the lower courts. And what does this have to do with the constitution?


There are a lot of legal issues surrounding subleases, both commercial and residential. It will actually help clear up a lot of conflicts if there is some case law on the books.
 
2022-12-07 5:58:50 AM  

Bluemoons: Minor Catastrophe: The rise and fall of Sears is a tragic story bordering on a Shakespearean play.

There will be many PhD's awarded to future doctors who will argue "this is where it all went wrong" like war historians arguing the turning point of ww2.

But for now, I think I'll take another look at the Sears Christmas catalog I saved from when I was barely a teen.

Instead of the women's lingerie or toys section, I'll wistfully browse the Craftsman's tools and Kenmore sections.

I still remember the first time I almost saw a nipple in a sears catalog. And then my mom walked in my room and caught me beating my dick like it owed me rent money.  We couldn't look each other in the eyes for a long time.


Bet she went from one those "I don't need to knock so I can catch them doing drugs" parents to knocking.
 
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