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(6ABC Philadelphia)   Want to sell your house at fair market value in Pennsylvania? Better hope your neighbors are white   (6abc.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Real estate, Delaware Valley, Philadelphia, Historically black colleges and universities, United States housing bubble, Corey Ricks, majority-minority neighborhoods, previous home  
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1974 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Dec 2022 at 4:15 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



29 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-12-04 4:21:11 PM  
Difficulty: in Philadelphia.

Home of the 3 famous Williams.

Penn, Cosby, and Smith.
 
2022-12-04 4:26:10 PM  
Same as it ever was.
 
2022-12-04 4:30:17 PM  
What's the law on appraisals in PA?
My last experience elsewhere, you need a mathematical documentation and multiple methods. You need comps, you need statements of condition, you need detailed square footage. You do it wrong, you get sued.
 
2022-12-04 4:30:36 PM  
If they aren't selling, isn't that a property tax tax break?
 
2022-12-04 4:36:04 PM  
I'd like to see the numbers on what they actually sell for vs "under-appraised."
 
2022-12-04 4:42:22 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: If they aren't selling, isn't that a property tax tax break?


Different appraisal. You tax appraisal is often a fiction, seldom more than fair market value but often less. Many places put limits on how quickly your tax appraisal can grow. The appraisal they needed was so a buyer can get a mortgage. In theory, it protects the lender from getting stuck having loaned out more than a property is worth should the loan recipient default.
 
2022-12-04 4:50:36 PM  
Just because somebody is willing to pay a particular price in a hot market doesn't mean their bank wants to take on that risk. TFA even says that it's a crappy neighbourhood where this is the only house that is properly maintained. Huge red flag right there. That said, there is certainly the old institutional racism at play here too.

In either case if the buyers were really serious on the house and the price it sounds like they would have found another bank given their first refused to do a reappraisal. Sounds a bit like they got a reality check when the appraisal came in and then realised how bad their first offer was.
 
2022-12-04 4:57:21 PM  
Because redlining is new
 
2022-12-04 5:11:18 PM  
I'm sure a white Farker will he along shortly to tell us this is just a coincidence and we shouldn't be reading racism into this thing that happens with alarming consistency and has for literal decades.
 
2022-12-04 5:21:24 PM  
When I tried to buy a condo in Hatboro (near Philly), I got two appraisals (sale price $160k), first one at $140k and the second at $180k. It's almost as though it's utter random BS that financiers make up off the top of their heads.

I ended up, after 9 1/2 months of trying, bailing on the stupid thing and now rent. The market is absolutely soul crushing.
 
2022-12-04 5:35:11 PM  
The White family lived across the street from us growing up.  They lived in a duplex.  The people on the other side of it tore their half down because it was unsellable due to the property value effect of that family.
 
2022-12-04 5:51:50 PM  
WTF do these dumbass articles keep getting greenlit month after month?

A) Market value is whatever the hell people are willing to pay for it, for one.  No one 'sets' the price of a house.

B) All appraising means is to calculate what the taxes are.  If an appraiser supposedly 'undervalues' a property, literally all that means is you pay less in property taxes.  WTF ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT PAYING LESS IN TAXES?!?!?!
 
2022-12-04 5:53:25 PM  

Shaggy_C: Just because somebody is willing to pay a particular price in a hot market doesn't mean their bank wants to take on that risk. TFA even says that it's a crappy neighbourhood where this is the only house that is properly maintained. Huge red flag right there. That said, there is certainly the old institutional racism at play here too.

In either case if the buyers were really serious on the house and the price it sounds like they would have found another bank given their first refused to do a reappraisal. Sounds a bit like they got a reality check when the appraisal came in and then realised how bad their first offer was.


If there's one thing banks do competently its avoid risk 🙄
 
2022-12-04 5:55:02 PM  
As a white person, I am sick of white peoples' shiat.
 
2022-12-04 6:25:00 PM  

etoof: As a white person, I am sick of white peoples' shiat.


Me too. Literally comes flying out of my butt, every damn day.
 
2022-12-04 6:51:24 PM  

wademh: What's the law on appraisals in PA?
My last experience elsewhere, you need a mathematical documentation and multiple methods. You need comps, you need statements of condition, you need detailed square footage. You do it wrong, you get sued.


Those are the rules. Also, Upper Darby is crime ridden, low income, and (for some reason) has New Jersey level property taxes so their example is a bad one.  That's the reason for it being priced lower than one of the richer, safer  suburbs (location, location, location).  It's why my in-laws' rural larger house on 9 acres is worth less than my tiny house on 1/4 acre.

The issue isn't race...it's crime and schools.  If they found this was a trend on the main line or in New hope or something, that would be telling.
 
2022-12-04 6:55:51 PM  
 
2022-12-04 7:11:44 PM  

jake3988: WTF do these dumbass articles keep getting greenlit month after month?

A) Market value is whatever the hell people are willing to pay for it, for one.  No one 'sets' the price of a house.

B) All appraising means is to calculate what the taxes are.  If an appraiser supposedly 'undervalues' a property, literally all that means is you pay less in property taxes.  WTF ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT PAYING LESS IN TAXES?!?!?!


WTF do these dumbass posts keep getting smart votes?

A) They had people willing to pay for it.

B) Appraising isn't just for property taxes. It's also for getting a mortgage. If the appraiser supposedly 'undervalues' a property, it literally means no one is going to get a loan to buy the property. They're not complaining about taxes, they're complaining about only being to sell at either a deep discount or to cash-only buyers.
 
2022-12-04 7:30:22 PM  

jake3988: WTF do these dumbass articles keep getting greenlit month after month?

A) Market value is whatever the hell people are willing to pay for it, for one.  No one 'sets' the price of a house.

B) All appraising means is to calculate what the taxes are.  If an appraiser supposedly 'undervalues' a property, literally all that means is you pay less in property taxes.  WTF ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT PAYING LESS IN TAXES?!?!?!


Tax assessment is different than sales appraisal.
 
2022-12-04 7:41:51 PM  
Redlining, alive and well.

I live in a nice suburban neighborhood, well established, no HOA, top school district for half a million people within 20 miles, and mixed income by subdivision.

We have plenty of ill-maintained houses in proximity (bank owned) and it in no way affects home values.

Yes, we are mostly White and South Asian owners, why do you ask?
 
2022-12-04 7:43:49 PM  

jake3988: WTF do these dumbass articles keep getting greenlit month after month?

A) Market value is whatever the hell people are willing to pay for it, for one.  No one 'sets' the price of a house.

B) All appraising means is to calculate what the taxes are.  If an appraiser supposedly 'undervalues' a property, literally all that means is you pay less in property taxes.  WTF ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT PAYING LESS IN TAXES?!?!?!


y.yarn.coView Full Size
 
2022-12-04 8:31:06 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: If they aren't selling, isn't that a property tax tax break?


Property taxes are assessed by a tax collector aren't they?
 
2022-12-04 8:34:28 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-04 8:37:44 PM  

BMFPitt: The White family lived across the street from us growing up.  They lived in a duplex.  The people on the other side of it tore their half down because it was unsellable due to the property value effect of that family.


Did you grew up in West Virginia?


Or I guess I could have went with a soft White Underbelly comment


*YouTube Channel that I can't decide if it a legit attempt to give a voice to overlooked people or it is 21st century slumming
 
2022-12-04 8:39:11 PM  

jake3988: WTF do these dumbass articles keep getting greenlit month after month?

A) Market value is whatever the hell people are willing to pay for it, for one.  No one 'sets' the price of a house.

B) All appraising means is to calculate what the taxes are.  If an appraiser supposedly 'undervalues' a property, literally all that means is you pay less in property taxes.  WTF ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT PAYING LESS IN TAXES?!?!?!


Have you never bought a house?]


You have to have an appraisal to get a loan or refinance a loan

Or are you aware of that and being disingenuous?
 
2022-12-04 8:43:25 PM  
ABC did a story on this - the example they used was near San Francisco. Action News here in Philly just used a local example. My point being this sort of "lowballing" is widespread.
 
2022-12-04 9:25:34 PM  
The house is worth whatever a willing buyer will purchase it for. If people pay less for homes with people of darker skin color, thems the breaks.

Here in NYC, people pay more to live in proximity to Jews and Asians and pay less to live near white people.
 
2022-12-04 10:18:02 PM  
All house appraisals are equal.

Some are just more equal than others...
 
2022-12-04 11:40:41 PM  

spongeboob: jake3988: WTF do these dumbass articles keep getting greenlit month after month?

A) Market value is whatever the hell people are willing to pay for it, for one.  No one 'sets' the price of a house.

B) All appraising means is to calculate what the taxes are.  If an appraiser supposedly 'undervalues' a property, literally all that means is you pay less in property taxes.  WTF ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT PAYING LESS IN TAXES?!?!?!

Have you never bought a house?]


You have to have an appraisal to get a loan or refinance a loan

Or are you aware of that and being disingenuous?


you mention escrow and they're like "we call them Inuits now!"

Anyway...

There are two kinds of effects at play. If comparable houses on the same block are getting vastly different appraisals, that's a serious problem. If you can have faux owners stand in, that's a serious problem. Let's call these Type A.

Sometimes these discussions go off the rails - majority black neighborhoods will appraise lower than comparable majority white neighborhoods. The more black residents, the fewer white buyers will consider the neighborhood, and the total pool of potential buyers shrinks. More tenants?  Nobody wants to live near goddamn rentals, and rental properties tend to be less meticulously maintained look like garbage (and drag the comps down). Ding!  Lower appraisals. the appraisers could pretend like it's not a factor, but that just lets people get loans that aren't properly underwritten and risks defaults that cascade through the system.  Schools perform less well?  Ding!  Lower appraisals than across the zone line. These are Type B.

Type B is valid. It's sucks, but it's reflecting racial and socioeconomic realities, not creating them.

Type A is not valid, and should be rectified. If that means appraisers lose their licenses, or require remedial training, that's probably the best way to fix it.
 
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