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(Slate)   Today's Slatesplanation: Why the U.S. men's soccer team couldn't get any further in the World Cup than it did. Uh, because they suck?   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Netherlands, Louis van Gaal, Dutch people, World Cup, Tyler Adams, Dutch forwards, national team, group stage games  
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312 clicks; posted to Sports » on 03 Dec 2022 at 10:50 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-12-03 7:49:21 PM  
Hey Subs, think you could make it as far as they did?  Then STFU
 
2022-12-03 8:11:26 PM  
They were better than a lot of other teams and did well. They did not suck.
 
2022-12-03 8:24:27 PM  
We're a young team age-wise and we definitely have enough talent to be dangerous in 2026.
 
2022-12-03 8:34:10 PM  
There was no suckage.
 
2022-12-03 8:45:15 PM  
They lost to a better team, but they came in in the top half. America isn't exactly known for our soccer. They should be proud.
 
2022-12-03 8:51:58 PM  
Haven't read TFA but my guess is the argument made could easily be translated to Australia too. We made it through the group stage but went down to Argentina in non-embarrassing circumstances. We're a nation who values a lot of sports ahead of soccer and we've got about one twelfth the population of the US so it was a decent result in that we could really not have done any better.
 
2022-12-03 10:51:11 PM  

North_Central_Positronics: We're a young team age-wise and we definitely have enough talent to be dangerous in 2026.


I just face-palm for asking, but... where will it be held?
 
2022-12-03 11:01:19 PM  
Some jackwagons are saying that the US should always be in the finals, like little league or something.
 
2022-12-03 11:01:24 PM  
He feels happy.  He doesn't want to get on the cart.
 
2022-12-03 11:05:26 PM  

Earguy: North_Central_Positronics: We're a young team age-wise and we definitely have enough talent to be dangerous in 2026.

I just face-palm for asking, but... where will it be held?


Co-hosts USA, Mexico, and Canada, spread out over 15 different cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_FIFA_World_Cup
 
2022-12-03 11:07:38 PM  
Because...

There are enough people in this country with enough athletic talent that we should be able to win every 4 years. Just like the women's team. (More on that soon.) However, anyone who is an elite enough athlete ends up picking one of four other sports in the U.S. And starting at 14 or so starts focusing on one or two of those, but very rarely soccer because there's next to no money down that path, nor is there the infrastructure at the lower levels to train people up. (Like college football, or minor league baseball, etc.) It exists to an extent, but almost nobody cares enough for it to be real.

Interestingly for elite women athletes, Soccer is one of the very few team games for girls which start at a young age. There are 330 million people here, half of whom are women, and suddenly soccer is something that can be strived for, and for which there is infrastructure from age 5 straight through college and from there the U.S. team gets the very best of the whole country. So we win a ton.
 
2022-12-03 11:17:23 PM  
If I were American, I would not be embarrassed by the performance of the USMNT.

The US goal was truly a thing of amazing skill. What a flick.
 
2022-12-03 11:17:58 PM  
Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-03 11:30:56 PM  
I watched the game and the US just looked spent and the Netherlands were definitely the better team.  As mentioned the US team is young and should have a bright future.
 
2022-12-03 11:31:19 PM  
Because it isn't twenty to thirty years in the future?
 
2022-12-03 11:47:17 PM  

The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image 425x425]


Spank Bank

But seriously, in the US, most of the best athletes go to football, baseball or hockey. This is slightly changing, with some going to soccer, but it is still the case as you can really see the size difference between the US players and some other countries.

Also, what is glaringly clear is the athletic ability difference between the US players and other countries. I place this clearly on the way soccer players are trained and brought up in the US. In other countries, soccer is played by kids as pickup games where they develop their athletic ability on the field, then the best of those players are picked for official teams, and the wildness is harnessed with fundamentals. Much like is done here with basketball, football, baseball and hockey. But in the US, most of these players come from the AYSO program, which is mostly a white suburban program, that teaches fundamentals and most of these players do not have the playground background that builds that athletic ability and hardness
 
2022-12-04 12:05:20 AM  

ongbok: The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image 425x425]

Spank Bank

But seriously, in the US, most of the best athletes go to football, baseball or hockey. This is slightly changing, with some going to soccer, but it is still the case as you can really see the size difference between the US players and some other countries.


forgetting a popular league known for exceptional athleticism ?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-04 12:10:33 AM  

farbekrieg: ongbok: The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image 425x425]

Spank Bank

But seriously, in the US, most of the best athletes go to football, baseball or hockey. This is slightly changing, with some going to soccer, but it is still the case as you can really see the size difference between the US players and some other countries.

forgetting a popular league known for exceptional athleticism ?
[Fark user image 350x196]


well, this is fark, the bizarro world where thr NHL is 10x more popular than the NBA.
 
2022-12-04 12:11:24 AM  

The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image image 425x425]


"She makes my abaya fit funny"
 
2022-12-04 12:16:27 AM  

The Smails Kid: The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image image 425x425]

"She makes my abaya fit funny"


How much abaya for?  Both of them.  I want abaya girls.
 
2022-12-04 12:16:56 AM  

farbekrieg: ongbok: The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image 425x425]

Spank Bank

But seriously, in the US, most of the best athletes go to football, baseball or hockey. This is slightly changing, with some going to soccer, but it is still the case as you can really see the size difference between the US players and some other countries.

forgetting a popular league known for exceptional athleticism ?
[Fark user image 350x196]


Damn, somehow basketball got deleted from my post. That is the main sport that playground play builds the athleticism that is needed in professional play
 
2022-12-04 12:20:39 AM  

Aussie_As: Haven't read TFA but my guess is the argument made could easily be translated to Australia too. We made it through the group stage but went down to Argentina in non-embarrassing circumstances. We're a nation who values a lot of sports ahead of soccer and we've got about one twelfth the population of the US so it was a decent result in that we could really not have done any better.


Argentina, France, Spain, Brazil were all among the favorites to cash in this Cup. The Socceroos lost 2-1 to one of those four.
Walk proud
 
2022-12-04 12:21:35 AM  

NewWorldDan: Earguy: North_Central_Positronics: We're a young team age-wise and we definitely have enough talent to be dangerous in 2026.

I just face-palm for asking, but... where will it be held?

Co-hosts USA, Mexico, and Canada, spread out over 15 different cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_FIFA_World_Cup


Do all three get automatic bids because that really effs up CONCACAF.
 
2022-12-04 12:22:40 AM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: Because...

There are enough people in this country with enough athletic talent that we should be able to win every 4 years. Just like the women's team. (More on that soon.) However, anyone who is an elite enough athlete ends up picking one of four other sports in the U.S. And starting at 14 or so starts focusing on one or two of those, but very rarely soccer because there's next to no money down that path, nor is there the infrastructure at the lower levels to train people up. (Like college football, or minor league baseball, etc.) It exists to an extent, but almost nobody cares enough for it to be real.

Interestingly for elite women athletes, Soccer is one of the very few team games for girls which start at a young age. There are 330 million people here, half of whom are women, and suddenly soccer is something that can be strived for, and for which there is infrastructure from age 5 straight through college and from there the U.S. team gets the very best of the whole country. So we win a ton.


The NCAA was the defacto best women's league in the world until pretty recently.  That's no longer the case and now that the traditional football powers are ramping up their participation in the women's game, I'd expect the women's results to start mirroring the men's in a cycle or two. And I'd expect all the top women to start playing in Europe, the ones eligible for a work permit that is.
 
2022-12-04 12:23:08 AM  

ongbok: farbekrieg: ongbok: The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image 425x425]

Spank Bank

But seriously, in the US, most of the best athletes go to football, baseball or hockey. This is slightly changing, with some going to soccer, but it is still the case as you can really see the size difference between the US players and some other countries.

forgetting a popular league known for exceptional athleticism ?
[Fark user image 350x196]

Damn, somehow basketball got deleted from my post. That is the main sport that playground play builds the athleticism that is needed in professional play


I guess kids don't do it as much as they used to, but we would just show up to the park with gloves and bats and played whoever was there.  No coaches yelling at you to do it one way, so we got to figure things out on our own.
 
2022-12-04 12:27:48 AM  

capngroovy: NewWorldDan: Earguy: North_Central_Positronics: We're a young team age-wise and we definitely have enough talent to be dangerous in 2026.

I just face-palm for asking, but... where will it be held?

Co-hosts USA, Mexico, and Canada, spread out over 15 different cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_FIFA_World_Cup

Do all three get automatic bids because that really effs up CONCACAF.


Yes, but with a 48 team format, so with likely at least 6 CONCACAF entrants
 
2022-12-04 12:29:18 AM  
And,btw, I do feel bad for the fans of whatever the women's pro league is now. They are pretty die hard and just missed the chance to become the established #1 league in the world. But in reality, they can't compete with Real, Barca, ManU, Arsenal etc, established clubs with state of the art facilities, grounds etc.
 
2022-12-04 1:04:24 AM  

farbekrieg: ongbok: The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image 425x425]

Spank Bank

But seriously, in the US, most of the best athletes go to football, baseball or hockey. This is slightly changing, with some going to soccer, but it is still the case as you can really see the size difference between the US players and some other countries.

forgetting a popular league known for exceptional athleticism ?
[Fark user image image 350x196]


I assumed it was left out because we aren't exactly going to build a whole soccer team out of 6'7"-6'9" dudes.
 
2022-12-04 1:15:41 AM  

Rev.K: If I were American, I would not be embarrassed by the performance of the USMNT.

The US goal was truly a thing of amazing skill. What a flick.


Well, I would say one embarrassment: The fact that they let the same cross result in a goal three separate times. An elite team would not have let that cross happen even once. A good team would have made the adjustment after the first time. As much as we crapped on Klinsmann as a manager, I don't think he lets that goal happen three times.
 
2022-12-04 2:00:20 AM  

drewogatory: And,btw, I do feel bad for the fans of whatever the women's pro league is now. They are pretty die hard and just missed the chance to become the established #1 league in the world. But in reality, they can't compete with Real, Barca, ManU, Arsenal etc, established clubs with state of the art facilities, grounds etc.


Who is numero uno if it isn't the American women's league and how did the American women's league miss the chance of having that claim?
 
2022-12-04 3:50:00 AM  
They don't play at the level of the rest of the world. Nothing new there.
 
2022-12-04 5:03:21 AM  

NewportBarGuy: They were better than a lot of other teams and did well. They did not suck.


The USA scored fewer goals in four games than Marcus Rashford scored in three.

They may have sucked less than some but that is still a significant amount of suck.
 
2022-12-04 5:13:40 AM  

The_Sponge: Well....I guess I will have to root for my second favorite team....Croatia.

[Fark user image image 425x425]


They need pics to report her to the modmins.
 
2022-12-04 5:57:44 AM  
1 - You don't make it out of the group stage if you suck
2 - They're one of the youngest teams in the tournament
 
2022-12-04 5:59:45 AM  
It's called football, not soccer - that's why the USA lost.  Also, the USA fans are light years behind in their chanting skills.  They sound like elementary school kids shouting for the moms by comparison to the rest of the world.
 
2022-12-04 6:07:52 AM  

Only You Can See This: It's called football, not soccer - that's why the USA lost.  Also, the USA fans are light years behind in their chanting skills.  They sound like elementary school kids shouting for the moms by comparison to the rest of the world.


Yeah, Australian sports fans never sing. I don't get why, we've inherited our sports culture from the Poms who love a good singalong at the football or at the cricket. Even when they're losing they're still playing instruments and in full song.
 
2022-12-04 6:33:39 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: They lost to a better team, but they came in in the top half. America isn't exactly known for our soccer. They should be proud.


I tried to tell Aaron Rodgers the same thing.
 
2022-12-04 6:46:06 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: They lost to a better team, but they came in in the top half. America isn't exactly known for our MEN'S soccer. They should be proud.

FTFY
 
2022-12-04 6:57:02 AM  
They let up two inexcusable goals - like fireable and cuttable defensive bedsh*tting.  Right now they can play about 85 minutes of very good soccer and they don't have the goal scorers to make up for their lapses.  Until they're able to put together 90 consistent minutes against top 5-10 teams, they'll be right where they are: 15-ish.  But this team is young enough that it'll be fun to see how they do over the next few years and they'll hopefully spark the program.
 
2022-12-04 7:35:02 AM  

KarmicDisaster: There was no suckage.


There was a distinct lack of good strikers.
 
2022-12-04 7:35:07 AM  
I haven't been this excited about the potential about the US team 4 years from now since 2014.  And 2010.  And 2002.
 
2022-12-04 8:21:34 AM  

KarmicDisaster: There was no suckage.


The 3 major defensive lapses that left people wide open in the box certainly sucked.

If an NFL secondary got burned deep 3 times on the same play in the same game due to mental lapses, fans would rightfully be blaming them for the resulting loss.

The US as a whole didn't suck, but even U10 players know to mark players in the box, so you can't excuse their youth for such a fundamental fark up.
 
2022-12-04 8:47:04 AM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: Interestingly for elite women athletes, Soccer is one of the very few team games for girls which start at a young age. There are 330 million people here, half of whom are women, and suddenly soccer is something that can be strived for, and for which there is infrastructure from age 5 straight through college and from there the U.S. team gets the very best of the whole country. So we win a ton.


because colleges must give the same number of scholarships to female atheletes as male atheletes. Women cannot play college (American) football so to balance the huge number of football scholarships money flows to women's teams for basketball, gymnastics and....soccer. So in youth levels parents pay and kids play chasing Free College, and so the infrastructure built since the 70s to support. Which resulted in a winning national team which also helps drive young girls to choose soccer.

/ Until DA and now MLS Next (both male side) the female side organically grew a huge and better development structure because that was where the money was.
// male side of youth soccer over part decade is now getting more focus meaning money and cohesive plan from the top
/// they tried making a women's DA and it lasted one year but then DA stopped at both boys and girls side (MLS went to mls next and killed DA). They have girls academy on the women's side but it is competing with the older established girls programs/leagues which grew in the unfocused vacuum starting in the 70s because us soccer federation has lacked a plan.
 
2022-12-04 8:50:45 AM  
on the last goal, dumfries was waving for the ball for 10 seconds, unmarked by 15 yards.  he had time to run into the stands and find a flare, set it off and wave it and still no one would've been marking him
 
2022-12-04 8:52:39 AM  

WoodyHayes: drewogatory: And,btw, I do feel bad for the fans of whatever the women's pro league is now. They are pretty die hard and just missed the chance to become the established #1 league in the world. But in reality, they can't compete with Real, Barca, ManU, Arsenal etc, established clubs with state of the art facilities, grounds etc.

Who is numero uno if it isn't the American women's league and how did the American women's league miss the chance of having that claim?


Are you asking what the number one women's league is?  If so, probably Division 1 Féminine, Liga F, or the Women's Super League in England, based on UEFA coefficients
 
2022-12-04 9:11:32 AM  

LucklessWonder: KarmicDisaster: There was no suckage.

There was a distinct lack of good strikers.


Well, that was kind of a coaching decision rather than an actual "the US doesn't have any talent at striker" thing.

Maybe next time we'll consider bringing our best strikers just in case, y'know, another team scores.
 
2022-12-04 9:17:17 AM  
They came in to the tournament ranked 16th in the world and gave a good game to the team ranked 8th. It was the most likely result. They don't suck. Likewise, this wasn't a team that gave America something to be proud of either.
 
2022-12-04 9:19:50 AM  

dartben: KarmicDisaster: There was no suckage.

The 3 major defensive lapses that left people wide open in the box certainly sucked.

If an NFL secondary got burned deep 3 times on the same play in the same game due to mental lapses, fans would rightfully be blaming them for the resulting loss.

The US as a whole didn't suck, but even U10 players know to mark players in the box, so you can't excuse their youth for such a fundamental fark up.


The skills of the players are up to the task of competing with and beating the best in the world - except in one area; 1 touch strikes on goal. We had opportunities and took the extra touch that closed the window. That is the striker problem. The runs on the ball when the cross was there - no one was home and that is head scratching. We've had that capability before.

I'll be interested in seeing the continued development of Reyna. That might be the difference between the best countries - they aren't waiting on 1 player - they pick from the several that they can count on being there.

I thought our transition from defense to offense was good and ball handling was better than I have seen previously from the US. Passing and creativity was decent to good. We stepped well and played more or less fearlessly and with no panic. These are all improvements - and show a capacity for growth.

It was the defense that was more disappointing yesterday, as the team had held good form in earlier Group play. Again, they played fearlessly and played without panic, but they had 3 unmarked, 1st touch strikes. I don't know if that was a case of fatigue or lack of concentration - it is not a lack of talent but can be grown out of as the team advances towards 2026. It's not a matter of suckage.

We need to stop being overly prescriptive about the need to overhaul US Soccer. To a certain extent above, we've addressed the lack of a soccer first culture in the US - but with each succeeding year, that evolves. It's growing. We will take that leap forward when we see our own Doctor J of the pitch - a charismatic US Soccer star. (Michael Jordan and Lebron James are the best - but Doctor J was inventive and innovative and artistic - beautiful).

I've heard these arguments for the last 20 years - imho we should continue to support these young men, continue to develop.....and look for Dr. J.
 
2022-12-04 9:31:13 AM  

IAmRight: LucklessWonder: KarmicDisaster: There was no suckage.

There was a distinct lack of good strikers.

Well, that was kind of a coaching decision rather than an actual "the US doesn't have any talent at striker" thing.

Maybe next time we'll consider bringing our best strikers just in case, y'know, another team scores.


Yeah, I think I said in another thread that Berhalter is a pretty good scout/GM equivalent but a poor coach, and his lack of in game adjustments, uncertainty about who should lead the line, pathological hatred of making substitutions, and the rotating captaincy thing seem to support that.
 
2022-12-04 9:45:04 AM  

unixpro: Hey Subs, think you could make it as far as they did?  Then STFU


Taking this pretty hard Huh? Look at the bright side though. No other nation in the world will beat us at American style football.  US versus the Netherlands in American style football, C'mon man!
 
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