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(YouTube)   Making the Evil Empire scary again   (youtube.com) divider line
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1340 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 03 Dec 2022 at 12:50 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-12-03 12:53:19 AM  
The empire is scary?
 
2022-12-03 12:56:07 AM  
The problem isn't that the Empire isn't scary...

The problem is that there's a significant chunk of the population that looks at the Empire and First Order and say 'You know...they've got the right idea. We need to do that.'
 
2022-12-03 1:02:06 AM  
They made the Empire look like your basic police state. Banality of evil and all.
 
2022-12-03 1:33:09 AM  

cepson: They made the Empire look like your basic police state. Banality of evil and all.


This.

Mon Mothma was mired in bureaucracy.
The double agent inside the ISB only existed because he was able to navigate the paperwork and avoid being captured. The ISB wasn't even above inter territorial disputes of who got to control the book keeping. The prison is the only thing that would terrify me. And that's because they would rather slaughter an entire cell block rather than admit they made a clerical error on keeping the prisoner in the same prison instead of transferring him out to a Kessel spice mine.
 
2022-12-03 1:51:31 AM  
Armies of stormtroopers aren't nearly as fearful as armies of civil servants backstabbing each other to compete for "most awful / efficient sadist."
 
2022-12-03 3:12:59 AM  
Fascism, huh?

Now where, oh where, could they have gotten that idea from???
 
2022-12-03 6:04:43 AM  

TotalFarsa: Fascism, huh?

Now where, oh where, could they have gotten that idea from???


Other than the entirety of human history?
 
2022-12-03 6:12:14 AM  
So is Andor actually worth watching?
 
2022-12-03 6:30:37 AM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


Yes
 
2022-12-03 7:31:52 AM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


Only if you like character development, moral imprecision, and to know more about how the Rebel  Alliancewas founded.
 
2022-12-03 7:34:11 AM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


I'd say yes. It stops making imperials look like incompetent buffoons, but more  individuals concerned with their own advancement and law and order over freedom. Lots of those types hanging around today.
It also looks at the ethics involved violent resistance against an occupying, oppressive force.
 
2022-12-03 7:36:40 AM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


I have a nephew in college who is studying film. Episode 9 ruined Star Wars for him and he turned his back on the entire franchise. Never watched any of the newer Disney products. He was just disgusted by the sequels.

From episode one of Andor, I was telling him it was the best SW since RO. He has excellent taste in film and politely declined.

He visited us over thanksgiving and the half the table was discussing Andor. Lots of articulate, educated people at the table. The conversation glowed.

The next day we both had free. I suggested a marathon of our favorite directors. He asked if we might binge Andor. Goddamn right we might.

From 10am to 8ish-pm this young, intelligent, onetime SW fan sat shocked and consistently exclaimed something along the lines of "OMG THIS IS SO farkING GOOD, THE PACING THE DIALOGUE OMG LOOK AT THAT BACKUP I WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN."

It is so good.
 
2022-12-03 7:48:15 AM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


OK. It's on my lengthy list now, everyone.

(I just started with the last season of Newsradio. I couldn't make it through the first episode that was mourning Phil Hartman out of sadness. So, it might be a while.)
 
2022-12-03 8:01:39 AM  
My favorite moments of Star Wars are now mostly of Andor moments.

1. Luthen getting back into character for Coruscant (you know the moment).
2. The second TIE flyby on Aldhani.
3. World building with Vetch.
 
2022-12-03 9:24:37 AM  

cepson: They made the Empire look like your basic police state. Banality of evil and all.


I really liked the mix of lazy incompetent bullies and grasping try hard lickspittles
 
2022-12-03 9:49:27 AM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: The problem isn't that the Empire isn't scary...

The problem is that there's a significant chunk of the population that looks at the Empire and First Order and say 'You know...they've got the right idea. We need to do that.'


it's fiction, not contemporary america
 
2022-12-03 10:37:47 AM  
"The Star Wars Holiday Special" is to "The Empire Strikes Back" as ("The Book of Boba Fett" or "Obi-Wan Kenobi") is to "Andor"
 
2022-12-03 11:05:09 AM  

August11: bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?

I have a nephew in college who is studying film. Episode 9 ruined Star Wars for him and he turned his back on the entire franchise. Never watched any of the newer Disney products. He was just disgusted by the sequels.

From episode one of Andor, I was telling him it was the best SW since RO. He has excellent taste in film and politely declined.

He visited us over thanksgiving and the half the table was discussing Andor. Lots of articulate, educated people at the table. The conversation glowed.

The next day we both had free. I suggested a marathon of our favorite directors. He asked if we might binge Andor. Goddamn right we might.

From 10am to 8ish-pm this young, intelligent, onetime SW fan sat shocked and consistently exclaimed something along the lines of "OMG THIS IS SO farkING GOOD, THE PACING THE DIALOGUE OMG LOOK AT THAT BACKUP I WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN."

It is so good.


Where did he find a community College with a film program?
 
2022-12-03 12:17:39 PM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


Yes, with one caveat. There's 8 episodes worth of content spread out over 12. The upside - smart characters, complexity of plot and morality, attention to detail. If you liked Solo and Obi-Wan, this maybe isn't the show for you.
 
2022-12-03 12:19:53 PM  

August11: bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?

I have a nephew in college who is studying film. Episode 9 ruined Star Wars for him and he turned his back on the entire franchise. Never watched any of the newer Disney products. He was just disgusted by the sequels.

From episode one of Andor, I was telling him it was the best SW since RO. He has excellent taste in film and politely declined.

He visited us over thanksgiving and the half the table was discussing Andor. Lots of articulate, educated people at the table. The conversation glowed.

The next day we both had free. I suggested a marathon of our favorite directors. He asked if we might binge Andor. Goddamn right we might.

From 10am to 8ish-pm this young, intelligent, onetime SW fan sat shocked and consistently exclaimed something along the lines of "OMG THIS IS SO farkING GOOD, THE PACING THE DIALOGUE OMG LOOK AT THAT BACKUP I WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN."

It is so good.


i pestered a friend of mine who was a huge star wars fan into watching it and got much the same reaction once she finally listened to me and binged the first 6 episodes.
 
2022-12-03 12:38:44 PM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


Yes, but not as a Star Wars show per se, but as a kind of throwback iron-curtain thriller of the 50s-70s.  It shares more DNA with LeCarre than with Lucas.
 
2022-12-03 1:18:20 PM  
Before that we had Lucas's idea of "torture" which was Han Solo on Bespin screaming, sort of, for laughs. It was fun torture, like the chill "slavery" down on Tatooine, where you get to go home to your mom at the end of of your slave shift down at Watto's.
 
2022-12-03 1:27:58 PM  

Bslim: Before that we had Lucas's idea of "torture" which was Han Solo on Bespin screaming, sort of, for laughs.


You....thought that part of the movie was played for laughs? I mean granted they didn't go full Hostel or anything but if you thought anyone was laughing at that part that's a weird take
 
2022-12-03 1:38:31 PM  

some_beer_drinker: RoyFokker'sGhost: The problem isn't that the Empire isn't scary...

The problem is that there's a significant chunk of the population that looks at the Empire and First Order and say 'You know...they've got the right idea. We need to do that.'

it's fiction, not contemporary america


'It Can't Happen Here' is also fiction, and yet... *gestures around*
 
2022-12-03 1:39:32 PM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


Oh yes indeed. It up there with Empire
And it would probably understandable to someone who never saw any Star Wars in their life with two exceptions: 1) The year is given as 5 BBY in the title card of the first episode. That means five years before Luke blowup the first Death Star. 2) The one minute post credits scene of the finale which shows the Death Star under construction.

When I first heard of the show, my first reaction was why. But it is turned out to be a treat for those who think there is room for adult drama in the franchise.
 
2022-12-03 2:11:28 PM  

deadsanta: bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?

Yes, but not as a Star Wars show per se, but as a kind of throwback iron-curtain thriller of the 50s-70s.  It shares more DNA with LeCarre than with Lucas.


This is very true. Still, it is happening in * that * galaxy, so the show is appealing on several levels. I wonder how much Gilroy would cite LeCarre as an influence.
 
2022-12-03 2:14:12 PM  

replacementcool: August11: bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?

I have a nephew in college who is studying film. Episode 9 ruined Star Wars for him and he turned his back on the entire franchise. Never watched any of the newer Disney products. He was just disgusted by the sequels.

From episode one of Andor, I was telling him it was the best SW since RO. He has excellent taste in film and politely declined.

He visited us over thanksgiving and the half the table was discussing Andor. Lots of articulate, educated people at the table. The conversation glowed.

The next day we both had free. I suggested a marathon of our favorite directors. He asked if we might binge Andor. Goddamn right we might.

From 10am to 8ish-pm this young, intelligent, onetime SW fan sat shocked and consistently exclaimed something along the lines of "OMG THIS IS SO farkING GOOD, THE PACING THE DIALOGUE OMG LOOK AT THAT BACKUP I WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN."

It is so good.

i pestered a friend of mine who was a huge star wars fan into watching it and got much the same reaction once she finally listened to me and binged the first 6 episodes.


Yeah, the show has turned half of the fan base into nagging busybodies.
 
2022-12-03 2:40:35 PM  

August11: bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?

I have a nephew in college who is studying film. Episode 9 ruined Star Wars for him and he turned his back on the entire franchise. Never watched any of the newer Disney products. He was just disgusted by the sequels.

From episode one of Andor, I was telling him it was the best SW since RO. He has excellent taste in film and politely declined.

He visited us over thanksgiving and the half the table was discussing Andor. Lots of articulate, educated people at the table. The conversation glowed.

The next day we both had free. I suggested a marathon of our favorite directors. He asked if we might binge Andor. Goddamn right we might.

From 10am to 8ish-pm this young, intelligent, onetime SW fan sat shocked and consistently exclaimed something along the lines of "OMG THIS IS SO farkING GOOD, THE PACING THE DIALOGUE OMG LOOK AT THAT BACKUP I WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN."

It is so good.


I was a film minor and I drive my husband insane with how much I gush over that show.  The direction, the flashback choices, showing juuuust enough of the Empire's callous treatment of natural resources & native populatons, omg it would be a stand-out show in any universe w/just a few name & costume changes.
 
2022-12-03 2:55:43 PM  

August11: deadsanta: bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?

Yes, but not as a Star Wars show per se, but as a kind of throwback iron-curtain thriller of the 50s-70s.  It shares more DNA with LeCarre than with Lucas.

This is very true. Still, it is happening in * that * galaxy, so the show is appealing on several levels. I wonder how much Gilroy would cite LeCarre as an influence.


i watched Michael Clayton again yesterday and love how much Gilroy focuses on dialogue above just about all else.
 
2022-12-03 2:55:58 PM  

brigid_fitch: I was a film minor and I drive my husband insane with how much I gush over that show.


Geez, I hope everyone isn't raising my expectations too high, heh.
 
2022-12-03 2:57:14 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: 'It Can't Happen Here' is also fiction, and yet... *gestures around*


I'm waiting for certain people to start saying, "You know, the Empire actually did a lot of good in Star Wars."
 
2022-12-03 3:23:12 PM  

bostonguy: RoyFokker'sGhost: 'It Can't Happen Here' is also fiction, and yet... *gestures around*

I'm waiting for certain people to start saying, "You know, the Empire actually did a lot of good in Star Wars."


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-03 3:25:20 PM  

replacementcool: bostonguy: RoyFokker'sGhost: 'It Can't Happen Here' is also fiction, and yet... *gestures around*

I'm waiting for certain people to start saying, "You know, the Empire actually did a lot of good in Star Wars."

[Fark user image 540x217]


The fark? Does anyone have a link to the article he's reference? Morbid curiosity.
 
2022-12-03 3:30:33 PM  

bostonguy: replacementcool: bostonguy: RoyFokker'sGhost: 'It Can't Happen Here' is also fiction, and yet... *gestures around*

I'm waiting for certain people to start saying, "You know, the Empire actually did a lot of good in Star Wars."

[Fark user image 540x217]

The fark? Does anyone have a link to the article he's reference? Morbid curiosity.


Found it.

Old link: http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-case-for-the-empire/article/2540

From that link in 2016 on the Wayback Machine:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-12-03 3:32:04 PM  

bostonguy: bostonguy: replacementcool: bostonguy: RoyFokker'sGhost: 'It Can't Happen Here' is also fiction, and yet... *gestures around*

I'm waiting for certain people to start saying, "You know, the Empire actually did a lot of good in Star Wars."

[Fark user image 540x217]

The fark? Does anyone have a link to the article he's reference? Morbid curiosity.

Found it.

Old link: http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-case-for-the-empire/article/2540

From that link in 2016 on the Wayback Machine:

[Fark user image 850x778]


the genocide of alderaan was OK because leia might have been lying.
 
2022-12-03 3:34:33 PM  

replacementcool: the genocide of alderaan was OK because leia might have been lying.


And the article starts by saying that The Republic is too big to govern and the Senate is powerless.

So that makes the Empire OK?

(I cannot find a way to find the rest of the archived article beyond the first page.)
 
2022-12-03 3:49:06 PM  

bostonguy: replacementcool: the genocide of alderaan was OK because leia might have been lying.

And the article starts by saying that The Republic is too big to govern and the Senate is powerless.

So that makes the Empire OK?

(I cannot find a way to find the rest of the archived article beyond the first page.)


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/the-case-for-the-empire

literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."
 
2022-12-03 3:53:28 PM  

replacementcool: literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."


So they're the Vorlons.

Reading that whole article made me sick.
 
2022-12-03 4:11:17 PM  

replacementcool: bostonguy: replacementcool: the genocide of alderaan was OK because leia might have been lying.

And the article starts by saying that The Republic is too big to govern and the Senate is powerless.

So that makes the Empire OK?

(I cannot find a way to find the rest of the archived article beyond the first page.)

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/the-case-for-the-empire

literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."


So, the rationale for every rightwing dictatorship ever, then.
 
2022-12-03 4:25:48 PM  

bostonguy: replacementcool: literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."

So they're the Vorlons.

Reading that whole article made me sick.


I was going to say your post was pure poetry.

Until some squirrel in my brain reminded me that Vorlons aren't Vogons.
 
2022-12-03 4:36:36 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: bostonguy: replacementcool: literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."

So they're the Vorlons.

Reading that whole article made me sick.

I was going to say your post was pure poetry.

Until some squirrel in my brain reminded me that Vorlons aren't Vogons.


The Vorlons are the flip side of the 'order' coin; galactic helicopter parents that shelter and manipulate their 'children' in the name of 'their best interest'.
 
2022-12-03 4:44:03 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: PartTimeBuddha: bostonguy: replacementcool: literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."

So they're the Vorlons.

Reading that whole article made me sick.

I was going to say your post was pure poetry.

Until some squirrel in my brain reminded me that Vorlons aren't Vogons.

The Vorlons are the flip side of the 'order' coin; galactic helicopter parents that shelter and manipulate their 'children' in the name of 'their best interest'.


Tell me now about the Vogons.
 
2022-12-03 5:02:57 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: RoyFokker'sGhost: PartTimeBuddha: bostonguy: replacementcool: literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."

So they're the Vorlons.

Reading that whole article made me sick.

I was going to say your post was pure poetry.

Until some squirrel in my brain reminded me that Vorlons aren't Vogons.

The Vorlons are the flip side of the 'order' coin; galactic helicopter parents that shelter and manipulate their 'children' in the name of 'their best interest'.

Tell me now about the Vogons.


The Vogons are morally neutral. They are a soulless bureaucracy that goes and does whatever they're told through the most expedient method possible. They have no imagination or moral compass, which is why their poetry is so horrible.

The Vogons are evil in the 'just following orders', never questioning sense. They don't instigate evil actions, they just carry them out. They are evil via ambivalence, rather than intent.
 
2022-12-03 5:14:29 PM  
I am enjoying this discussion mightily.

We have to wait a year for season two, yes?

Am I the only one who wants to read Nemik's manifesto in paperback? That would hold me over to 2024.
 
2022-12-03 5:27:31 PM  

August11: I am enjoying this discussion mightily.

We have to wait a year for season two, yes?

Am I the only one who wants to read Nemik's manifesto in paperback? That would hold me over to 2024.


at least a year. They only started production on S2 i think the week the finale came out.

And i too would purchase a copy of nemik's manifesto.
 
2022-12-03 5:29:59 PM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


More watchable than the 2022 Red Sox.
 
2022-12-03 5:40:59 PM  

replacementcool: August11: I am enjoying this discussion mightily.

We have to wait a year for season two, yes?

Am I the only one who wants to read Nemik's manifesto in paperback? That would hold me over to 2024.

at least a year. They only started production on S2 i think the week the finale came out.

And i too would purchase a copy of nemik's manifesto.


Here's hoping Gilroy has the time on his hand to belt it out.

I particularly like the freedom as natural- organic-unexpected-thing excerpt we were given. It makes freedom as potentially dangerous as an explosion of poison ivy in the back yard.
 
2022-12-03 5:50:12 PM  

replacementcool: bostonguy: replacementcool: the genocide of alderaan was OK because leia might have been lying.

And the article starts by saying that The Republic is too big to govern and the Senate is powerless.

So that makes the Empire OK?

(I cannot find a way to find the rest of the archived article beyond the first page.)

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/the-case-for-the-empire

literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."


From the cited article: "Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet."

I should have stopped reading long before there.
 
2022-12-03 5:52:46 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: PartTimeBuddha: RoyFokker'sGhost: PartTimeBuddha: bostonguy: replacementcool: literally the whole thing is "The empire stands for order, so it's good."

So they're the Vorlons.

Reading that whole article made me sick.

I was going to say your post was pure poetry.

Until some squirrel in my brain reminded me that Vorlons aren't Vogons.

The Vorlons are the flip side of the 'order' coin; galactic helicopter parents that shelter and manipulate their 'children' in the name of 'their best interest'.

Tell me now about the Vogons.

The Vogons are morally neutral. They are a soulless bureaucracy that goes and does whatever they're told through the most expedient method possible. They have no imagination or moral compass, which is why their poetry is so horrible.

The Vogons are evil in the 'just following orders', never questioning sense. They don't instigate evil actions, they just carry them out. They are evil via ambivalence, rather than intent.


Thank you so much for explaining the joke that clearly flew far, far over your knowledgeable awareness.
 
2022-12-03 5:53:08 PM  

bostonguy: So is Andor actually worth watching?


That depends...

Do you enjoy pointless character development dead ends?

Are you excited about the prospect of some of the shows most important and more defining characters being relegated to literally D-tier background characters? Who are mentioned only in passing with two minutes of screen time?

Do you like watching 30 minutes of treadmill grinding every two episodes only to break up the monotonous doldrums with character development in the final five minutes as bait to keep you around for the next episode?

Do you like joyless, preachy, dirges of sacrifice and moral imperatives? Buckle up you big stoic bastard.

It's not all bad though. It really does offer a lot of fresh perspectives on the Star Wars universe. And it treats you like an adult, capable of forming more than a primordial grunt of enthusiasm. And it deserves respect in trying to introduce some very complex characterizations in a very simplistic universe.

So I guess I'll let Joel sum it up.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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