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(CBS Sports)   Former Saints head coach Sean Payton believes the NFL Draft will move to a lottery system, perhaps like PowerBall® or Mega Millions®   (cbssports.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Roger Goodell, National Football League, Sean Payton, New Orleans Saints, Table tennis, worst team, lottery system, second half  
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309 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 Dec 2022 at 11:20 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-12-02 10:22:05 AM  
It'd be just one more huge primetime TV event for the NFL - Opening of free agency (following the legal tampering period), then the NFL Lottery, then the NFL Draft, then the NFL Schedule release...

/and yeah, it would discourage tanking, but who cares about that with streaming services and networks bidding for those broadcast dollars
 
2022-12-02 11:23:00 AM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size


No comment

/b/c he's dead
 
2022-12-02 11:31:43 AM  
Is he willing to put a bounty on that?
 
2022-12-02 11:34:45 AM  

Trocadero: [i.ytimg.com image 850x478]

No comment

/b/c he's dead


I am so glad he's dead.  F*cking asshole.
 
2022-12-02 11:35:19 AM  
Future Broncos coach.

/pleasepleaseplease...
 
2022-12-02 11:48:43 AM  
corny joke:

Q:  what has 7 balls and farks poor people?
A:  the Lotto
 
2022-12-02 12:13:10 PM  
One thing that sucks about the draft is the player really has no choice where he lives/plays.  John Elway said no f'ing way to Baltimore...because he had some leverage.  

I can imagine it also makes a difference in which state because of taxes.  Take someone on the block and Cleveland and Miami are probably gonna pick you...gee...which place do you want to live?
 
2022-12-02 12:18:36 PM  

dkimball: One thing that sucks about the draft is the player really has no choice where he lives/plays.  John Elway said no f'ing way to Baltimore...because he had some leverage.  

I can imagine it also makes a difference in which state because of taxes.  Take someone on the block and Cleveland and Miami are probably gonna pick you...gee...which place do you want to live?


That's easy, Cleveland because it's closer to a great mom-and-pop doughnut shop in Erie, PA.

Also because less hurricanes....and you'd have to live in Florida....


/likes snow
//wouldn't want to live in Cleveland either
///but given those two options?  easy
 
2022-12-02 12:18:38 PM  

rickythepenguin: corny joke:

Q:  what has 7 balls and farks poor people?
A:  the Lotto


Just call it an idiot tax
 
2022-12-02 12:26:49 PM  
Tanking in the NFL is way different than in the NBA, although both aren't really talking in the strictest sense of the term.  The GM can trade away good players or let them walk in free agency.  And in the NBA, players can dial it back some and not give 100% night to night.  But the players and coaches in the NBA aren't going to deliberately throw games, that's a good way to kill your career.  And in football, no player or coach is going to even half-ass it except for the occasional business decision on a tackle.  Trying to go half-speed in football is a good way to get yourself seriously hurt, and a lot of these guys are lucky to have a 4/5-year career where they see a second contract.  They're not going to jeopardize their limited playing window by playing soft.
 
2022-12-02 12:29:08 PM  

pastramithemosterotic: rickythepenguin: corny joke:

Q:  what has 7 balls and farks poor people?
A:  the Lotto

Just call it an idiot tax


People always view the lottery like people buy tickets instead of gas for their car or something, lots of people spend lots of money on stupid shiat because it's fun.  The lottery is fun, gambling is fun.  You can spend a lot of money doing it but that's little different from anything other hobby (40k anyone?).   People have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on micro transactions.  Am I better of spending 5 bucks a month on lottery tickets or 5 bucks a month on total fark?
 
2022-12-02 12:30:39 PM  
if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere
 
2022-12-02 12:33:00 PM  
I've always hated the draft system in the NFL. I get it, I understand it, and it makes sense to give bad teams a shot to get better. But I hate any system that gives any team an incentive to lose. And there is absolutely no way the Texans are not finishing last this season. They hold the lead for worst record. For them to win out now would be malpractice, and everybody knows it.
 
2022-12-02 12:35:17 PM  

ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere


I consider myself pro-labor too, but would you really prefer a system where Packers and Patriots scouts are attending September college games and offering contracts and signing bonuses on the spot? The second half of the NCAA season would feature completely de-motivated players and half-in, half-out rosters. Or are all eyes on high school seniors for pro development contracts, and then no one cares about the NCAA game at all?

If you envision doing away with the draft, what reasonable way would NFL teams sign new young players?
 
2022-12-02 12:36:45 PM  
And player salary will be based on the number of hits delivered in a game, eh Sean?
 
2022-12-02 12:36:46 PM  

ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere


Salary Cap.
 
2022-12-02 12:38:06 PM  

dkimball: John Elway said no f'ing way to Baltimore...because he had some leverage.


Eli Manning too.  You see it the NBA from time to time.  "sources say he wants to stay close to home, but the ____'s, ostensibly his preferred destination, only have a 3.7% chance of landing the #1 pick...."


Incog_Neeto: The lottery is fun, gambling is fun.


i'll play the lottery when it hits those astronomical numbers.  i missed the one last month.  and i haven't bought a ticket period in probably 3-4 years.  one year at work, 25+ of us bought $20 worth of tickets when it was one of those massive, "350 million!" payouts.  we ended up hitting like, 3 numbers, or 4, whatever, which was like, pfft, $500 payout, on one of the tickets.

however the math shook out, when we divided up the 400 or whatever tickets, by the number of persons, each person got something like $1.78 per.  nice ROI, huh?  spending $20 or $30, whatever, to "win" two bucks?  we ended up donating our "winnings" to fund the christmas party.  ha.
 
2022-12-02 12:57:08 PM  

dkimball: One thing that sucks about the draft is the player really has no choice where he lives/plays.  John Elway said no f'ing way to Baltimore...because he had some leverage.  

I can imagine it also makes a difference in which state because of taxes.  Take someone on the block and Cleveland and Miami are probably gonna pick you...gee...which place do you want to live?


But if there's no draft then you have a situation like before the MLB draft where the Yankees win the World Series every other year. So, there's no perfect system
 
2022-12-02 1:00:00 PM  

ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere


Ironically (?), the NFLPA would probably never go for that kind of system. Hell they didn't even like rookies who were drafted getting huge bonuses, hence the rookie salary cap
 
2022-12-02 1:05:09 PM  
I can't see it happening.   Parity is too important to the NFL, and the current rules around draft ordering are critical to that parity.

Which is probably why it will happen.
 
2022-12-02 1:08:04 PM  
I sincerely hope not the NBA draft is a shiat show and has been since it's inception.   To be fair there is no good way to do a draft lottery that luck can't fark up to some degree.

By in large the NFL draft has worked fine since it's inception, and yes it would be vulnerable to tanking but in such a short season it would be painfully obvious shenanigans were happening.
 
2022-12-02 1:11:06 PM  

grimlock1972: I sincerely hope not the NBA draft is a shiat show and has been since it's inception.   To be fair there is no good way to do a draft lottery that luck can't fark up to some degree.

By in large the NFL draft has worked fine since it's inception, and yes it would be vulnerable to tanking but in such a short season it would be painfully obvious shenanigans were happening.


And, frankly, in some cases it's hard to tell "tanking" from an honest-to-God rebuild. Different sport, but the Astros "tanked" for years, they were historically bad in the early '10s. Now look at them
 
2022-12-02 1:21:26 PM  
You can't get players and coaches in the NFL to tank. They know future jobs depend on it.

But as a GM you can build a team that can't win.

A simple solution would be to revise the cap floor and change the way it's measured. Make sure teams are actually paying 90%+ of the cap each year.
 
2022-12-02 1:25:23 PM  

ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere


Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

I'm not convinced tanking exists to any real extent in the NFL. For one, one player makes WAY less difference in football than they do in basketball or hockey. For two, one game is 1/17 of the season. Coaches and GMs can't afford to be giving a lot of those away
 
2022-12-02 1:29:35 PM  

BlazeTrailer: ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere

Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

I'm not convinced tanking exists to any real extent in the NFL. For one, one player makes WAY less difference in football than they do in basketball or hockey. For two, one game is 1/17 of the season. Coaches and GMs can't afford to be giving a lot of those away


Except the quarterback. We only really talk about NFL tanking when there are some really good QB's ready to go.

/that being said, Peyton Manning ain't walking through that door
 
2022-12-02 1:52:19 PM  

BlazeTrailer: Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.


no they don't. how could they? drafting players is a crap shoot.

Eddie Hazel's E string: ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere

I consider myself pro-labor too, but would you really prefer a system where Packers and Patriots scouts are attending September college games and offering contracts and signing bonuses on the spot? The second half of the NCAA season would feature completely de-motivated players and half-in, half-out rosters. Or are all eyes on high school seniors for pro development contracts, and then no one cares about the NCAA game at all?

If you envision doing away with the draft, what reasonable way would NFL teams sign new young players?


exactly the same as free agency. as soon as a player is eligible (what is it, two years after they graduate high school?), they go into the free agent pool for the next season

which is why the league won't allow this to happen, because it gives players too much power over how they sell their services.
 
2022-12-02 2:00:30 PM  
BlazeTrailer: ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere

Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

I'm not convinced tanking exists to any real extent in the NFL. For one, one player makes WAY less difference in football than they do in basketball or hockey. For two, one game is 1/17 of the season. Coaches and GMs can't afford to be giving a lot of those away

Granted, it's not for "that one good player" ( that you usually see in the NBA), but the Chicago Bears are clearly tanking this year (and have pretty much stated it as much as they can within whatever competition rules the NFL has regarding that kind of thing).  A new regime came in and started a whole process of trading away a series of their top players and simply letting other players go to clear up amount of free cash space and multiple draft picks for next year.
 
2022-12-02 2:09:12 PM  

TDWCom29: dkimball: One thing that sucks about the draft is the player really has no choice where he lives/plays.  John Elway said no f'ing way to Baltimore...because he had some leverage.  

I can imagine it also makes a difference in which state because of taxes.  Take someone on the block and Cleveland and Miami are probably gonna pick you...gee...which place do you want to live?

But if there's no draft then you have a situation like before the MLB draft where the Yankees win the World Series every other year. So, there's no perfect system


I was just saying it sucks for the player because he really has no say where he works
 
2022-12-02 2:16:16 PM  

ElwoodCuse: which is why the league won't allow this to happen, because it gives players too much power over how they sell their services.


I know you ignored my earlier post saying the same, but it ain't just the league that won't let it happen. It's the NFLPA too. Like I said they agreed to a rookie cap because drafted players were getting too much bonus money
 
2022-12-02 2:16:57 PM  

snowshovel: BlazeTrailer: ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere

Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

I'm not convinced tanking exists to any real extent in the NFL. For one, one player makes WAY less difference in football than they do in basketball or hockey. For two, one game is 1/17 of the season. Coaches and GMs can't afford to be giving a lot of those away

Granted, it's not for "that one good player" ( that you usually see in the NBA), but the Chicago Bears are clearly tanking this year (and have pretty much stated it as much as they can within whatever competition rules the NFL has regarding that kind of thing).  A new regime came in and started a whole process of trading away a series of their top players and simply letting other players go to clear up amount of free cash space and multiple draft picks for next year.


But how is that different from a rebuild?
 
2022-12-02 2:18:23 PM  

dkimball: TDWCom29: dkimball: One thing that sucks about the draft is the player really has no choice where he lives/plays.  John Elway said no f'ing way to Baltimore...because he had some leverage.  

I can imagine it also makes a difference in which state because of taxes.  Take someone on the block and Cleveland and Miami are probably gonna pick you...gee...which place do you want to live?

But if there's no draft then you have a situation like before the MLB draft where the Yankees win the World Series every other year. So, there's no perfect system

I was just saying it sucks for the player because he really has no say where he works


Oh I know, and I don't disagree in theory. Just saying there's a reason the draft exists, and it isn't just to screw players over
 
2022-12-02 3:25:13 PM  

Gubbo: You can't get players and coaches in the NFL to tank. They know future jobs depend on it.

But as a GM you can build a team that can't win.

A simple solution would be to revise the cap floor and change the way it's measured. Make sure teams are actually paying 90%+ of the cap each year.


That would actually be going backwards.  The current CBA requires teams to spend at least 95% of their cap.
 
2022-12-02 3:30:52 PM  

ElwoodCuse: BlazeTrailer: Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

no they don't. how could they? drafting players is a crap shoot.


30% of NFL starters are first round picks, and 60% were drafted in the first three rounds.

That's not a crap shoot.
 
2022-12-02 3:36:58 PM  

Rent Party: Gubbo: You can't get players and coaches in the NFL to tank. They know future jobs depend on it.

But as a GM you can build a team that can't win.

A simple solution would be to revise the cap floor and change the way it's measured. Make sure teams are actually paying 90%+ of the cap each year.

That would actually be going backwards.  The current CBA requires teams to spend at least 95% of their cap.


It's nowhere near that simple, because it isn't measured per year (the Bears are paying about 66% of the cap this year). It's measured over a number of years and, like everything else cap related, is rife with manipulation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/11/16/bears-taking-advantage-salary-cap-packers-deadline-dan-snyder
 
2022-12-02 3:40:46 PM  

ElwoodCuse: BlazeTrailer: Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

no they don't. how could they? drafting players is a crap shoot.

Eddie Hazel's E string: ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere

I consider myself pro-labor too, but would you really prefer a system where Packers and Patriots scouts are attending September college games and offering contracts and signing bonuses on the spot? The second half of the NCAA season would feature completely de-motivated players and half-in, half-out rosters. Or are all eyes on high school seniors for pro development contracts, and then no one cares about the NCAA game at all?

If you envision doing away with the draft, what reasonable way would NFL teams sign new young players?

exactly the same as free agency. as soon as a player is eligible (what is it, two years after they graduate high school?), they go into the free agent pool for the next season

which is why the league won't allow this to happen, because it gives players too much power over how they sell their services.


The "crapshoot" at 1-5 is A LOT different than the crapshoot at 10-20, let alone 21-32.

At the top of the draft you are hoping one is a blue chip franchise cornerstone. That only happens later in the draft through absolute luck.

Look at the Jets. Not championship contenders, but enough prime draft picks and they are winning a bit more
 
2022-12-02 3:43:04 PM  
So that means the Vikings would have a chance to not pick last next year?
 
2022-12-02 3:50:24 PM  
I'm all for the Gold Plan in MLB, the NBA, and NHL.

The NFL has so few games it might not work as well.
 
2022-12-02 3:53:09 PM  

Rent Party: The current CBA requires teams to spend at least 95% of their cap.


two stories, re how cheap NFL teams usd to be....

1)  in the early 80s, former NFL player Ron Wolfley was acquired by the Browns (coached by one Bill Belichick;  wonder whatever became of him?)  The Browns were at the time, a notoriously cheap/frugal franchise.  Wolf asked for a jockstrap.  the clubbies gave him one that was clearly used.  faded, elastic hanging out, the label faded from 500 washings....."are you kidding me?"  "no sir, size XL, just like you asked!"

2) 1993 or so, Joe Montana was released by the 49ers.  Visited the Cardinals, eager to show off their then brand-new training facility.  Joe, his agent, and the GM or whomever, go to the facility and.....the door is locked. the GM frantically calls security and gets the response that, "[team owner] Mr. Bidwill only pays for security during working hours, otherwise the facility is always locked. doesn't have to pay for lights, air conditioning, or pay 4-5 security guards minimum wage to patrol the facility.  Can Mr. Montana come back Monday?"

Joe of course chose Kansas City....
 
2022-12-02 4:30:52 PM  

ElwoodCuse: BlazeTrailer: Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

no they don't. how could they? drafting players is a crap shoot.

Eddie Hazel's E string: ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere

I consider myself pro-labor too, but would you really prefer a system where Packers and Patriots scouts are attending September college games and offering contracts and signing bonuses on the spot? The second half of the NCAA season would feature completely de-motivated players and half-in, half-out rosters. Or are all eyes on high school seniors for pro development contracts, and then no one cares about the NCAA game at all?

If you envision doing away with the draft, what reasonable way would NFL teams sign new young players?

exactly the same as free agency. as soon as a player is eligible (what is it, two years after they graduate high school?), they go into the free agent pool for the next season

which is why the league won't allow this to happen, because it gives players too much power over how they sell their services.


On your 2nd point, bad idea. Doesn't help the players much - they are fixed at a set % of revenue. You also run the risk that all the stars choose to migrate to the same 5 or 6 teams. Half the markets stop even watching NFL because becomes something akin to watching Ohio State, Clemson, and two SEC teams make the playoffs every year.

And guess what? That, in the NFL, will lower tv revenue. Given what I posted up above, that ultimately will hurt the players' bottom line
 
2022-12-02 4:33:40 PM  

Gubbo: Rent Party: Gubbo: You can't get players and coaches in the NFL to tank. They know future jobs depend on it.

But as a GM you can build a team that can't win.

A simple solution would be to revise the cap floor and change the way it's measured. Make sure teams are actually paying 90%+ of the cap each year.

That would actually be going backwards.  The current CBA requires teams to spend at least 95% of their cap.

It's nowhere near that simple, because it isn't measured per year (the Bears are paying about 66% of the cap this year). It's measured over a number of years and, like everything else cap related, is rife with manipulation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/11/16/bears-taking-advantage-salary-cap-packers-deadline-dan-snyder


Neither is the limit. Which means in years where you have a few stars due up you are spending well over the annual limit. That's why small market teams are still at a disadvantage, just not nearly the disadvantage they saw previously
 
2022-12-02 5:19:07 PM  
TDWCom29: snowshovel: BlazeTrailer: ElwoodCuse: if you want to stop tanking you need to get rid of drafts

but drafts keep labor costs down so they aren't going anywhere

Drafts help parity, which improves the value of the league.

I'm not convinced tanking exists to any real extent in the NFL. For one, one player makes WAY less difference in football than they do in basketball or hockey. For two, one game is 1/17 of the season. Coaches and GMs can't afford to be giving a lot of those away

Granted, it's not for "that one good player" ( that you usually see in the NBA), but the Chicago Bears are clearly tanking this year (and have pretty much stated it as much as they can within whatever competition rules the NFL has regarding that kind of thing).  A new regime came in and started a whole process of trading away a series of their top players and simply letting other players go to clear up amount of free cash space and multiple draft picks for next year.

But how is that different from a rebuild?


My sense is that with a rebuild, you still keep your top players if possible to "form the core" of the next generation.  The Bears traded their top 3 defensive players away.

I guess it depends on what you definition of tanking is versus rebuilding; they both belong to the same category of "we're throwing away this season to be better situated for next season." Tanking maybe carries a weight of asking players to not perform up to their best capabilities?
 
2022-12-02 10:04:54 PM  

dkimball: One thing that sucks about the draft is the player really has no choice where he lives/plays.  John Elway said no f'ing way to Baltimore...because he had some leverage.  

I can imagine it also makes a difference in which state because of taxes.  Take someone on the block and Cleveland and Miami are probably gonna pick you...gee...which place do you want to live?


They all have choice, they could go to the XFL/CFL. yet none of them do.....
 
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