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(Fortune)   Mortgage rates have dropped so much that the average monthly payment for a $400,000 home is only $3,037   (fortune.com) divider line
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    More: Followup, Real estate, Mortgage, much home, mortgage interest rates, Money, monthly payments, Property tax, national average mortgage rate  
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910 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Dec 2022 at 12:13 PM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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SpectroBoy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 11:09:03 AM  
WAT?!?
 
enry [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 11:20:40 AM  
"In January, you could buy a $400,000 home and have a principal and interest payment of $1,550 per month at 3.125%. Now that rates are around 7%, a buyer's monthly mortgage would increase by roughly $800 per month," says Derek Amos, senior mortgage loan originator with Mutual of Omaha Mortgage.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 11:51:27 AM  
Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.
 
Dr.Fey [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 11:59:18 AM  

dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.


I'm no expert, but I dunno if it works that way.  When I've paid attention, it seems when rates go up, prices go down.  When rates come down, prices go up.  Either your house will cost a lot, or your mortgage will cost a lot.  Can you get the best of both worlds?
 
BunkyBrewman [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 12:01:03 PM  

SpectroBoy: WAT?!?



Fark user imageView Full Size

MORTAGE RATES HAVE DROPPED SO MUCH THAT THE AVERAGE MONTLY PAYMENT FOR A $400,000 HOME IS ONLY $3037
 
NewportBarGuy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:02:29 PM  

dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.


You need a crash for a reset and buying point for a large group of people. Aside from the, it's regional boom and busts... People who think we're going to get 2008 again are largely in for disappointment.

You need an economic collapse on a pretty big scale to do that, and at that point you're worried about everything else aside from owning a house.

People had from 2009-2015 to jump into some insanely affordable real estate. Those that did made a ton of money... Those that did not... well...
 
Kornchex [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 12:15:07 PM  
Like $400,000 homes exist.
 
BunkyBrewman [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 12:15:50 PM  

NewportBarGuy: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

You need a crash for a reset and buying point for a large group of people. Aside from the, it's regional boom and busts... People who think we're going to get 2008 again are largely in for disappointment.

You need an economic collapse on a pretty big scale to do that, and at that point you're worried about everything else aside from owning a house.

People had from 2009-2015 to jump into some insanely affordable real estate. Those that did made a ton of money... Those that did not... well...


Bought our house in 2011 and it was a pretty good time.  While I think we paid a little more than it was worth at the time, but the interest rates were ridiculously low and we ended up refinancing a year later to take advantage of even lower interest rates.  (under 3% at the time)
 
Lexx
2022-12-01 12:19:03 PM  

Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.


They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.
 
mr0x
2022-12-01 12:21:15 PM  

Dr.Fey: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

I'm no expert, but I dunno if it works that way.  When I've paid attention, it seems when rates go up, prices go down.  When rates come down, prices go up.  Either your house will cost a lot, or your mortgage will cost a lot.  Can you get the best of both worlds?


Yeah, you can refinance when the rates go down as someone else said.
 
Fooshards
2022-12-01 12:24:18 PM  

dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.


"Limit" isn't a word in the vocabulary of well-technical'ed finance firms.  They have the equivalent of a Jenkins server that can pump out a full-auto managed LLC for every property.  I think a literal freeze for $x years on corporate purchases of single family housing is the only way to cool it down.  And even then, the current corpo model is just a way to insulate dubiously sourced cash from scrutiny/loss/taxation, so that same flow will just be redirected elsewhere.   Maybe we should put more automatic, unavoidable taxation collection in that corp cashflow process.
 
NewportBarGuy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:24:36 PM  

BunkyBrewman: NewportBarGuy: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

You need a crash for a reset and buying point for a large group of people. Aside from the, it's regional boom and busts... People who think we're going to get 2008 again are largely in for disappointment.

You need an economic collapse on a pretty big scale to do that, and at that point you're worried about everything else aside from owning a house.

People had from 2009-2015 to jump into some insanely affordable real estate. Those that did made a ton of money... Those that did not... well...

Bought our house in 2011 and it was a pretty good time.  While I think we paid a little more than it was worth at the time, but the interest rates were ridiculously low and we ended up refinancing a year later to take advantage of even lower interest rates.  (under 3% at the time)


You hit the perfect sweet spot. Bought mine in 2013... bit higher, but wayyyyyyyyyyy under current valuation, which when it comes down will still be 100%+ over what I paid.

It was probably the greatest time to buy any kind of property in history and we're not going to see something like that again in our lifetimes.

It sucks because everyone saw that and is waiting for it to happen again hoping they can take advantage. It seldom works like that.
 
mr0x
2022-12-01 12:26:07 PM  

NewportBarGuy: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

You need a crash for a reset and buying point for a large group of people. Aside from the, it's regional boom and busts... People who think we're going to get 2008 again are largely in for disappointment.

You need an economic collapse on a pretty big scale to do that, and at that point you're worried about everything else aside from owning a house.

People had from 2009-2015 to jump into some insanely affordable real estate. Those that did made a ton of money... Those that did not... well...


Got mine in 2009. Have lived here 13 years.

I flipped stuff on ebay from 2007-2009, lived in a $200/month room to be able to pay for it.
 
SpectroBoy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:27:35 PM  

Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.


Bullshiat.
 
imashark [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 12:28:30 PM  
I have an idea. Call it the "Primary Residence Act" and tax any freestanding single-family homes that are not the primary residence of taxpayers at 30% of the home and property's appraised value per year.

Book it, done.

(Multifamily dwellings can be taxed differently)
 
SpectroBoy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:29:18 PM  

NewportBarGuy: You hit the perfect sweet spot. Bought mine in 2013... bit higher, but wayyyyyyyyyyy under current valuation, which when it comes down will still be 100%+ over what I paid.


We did the opposite.
We bought before the collapse in 2008. Only in the last couple of years is our house valued at more than we paid.

On the other hand, we sold our old house before the collapse, so I guess it works out.
 
Fooshards
2022-12-01 12:29:33 PM  

Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.


lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:31:46 PM  

Dr.Fey: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

I'm no expert, but I dunno if it works that way.  When I've paid attention, it seems when rates go up, prices go down.  When rates come down, prices go up.  Either your house will cost a lot, or your mortgage will cost a lot.  Can you get the best of both worlds?


There's a lag in that transition. Rates drop and purchases pick up; when they start putting pressure on inventory, prices increase more rapidly.

I'd also like to see heavy tax penalties for vacant or second properties. Buying, holding and not using housing is a blight and part of the reason inventory was squeezed so much recently.
 
cide1
2022-12-01 12:33:32 PM  

NewportBarGuy: BunkyBrewman: NewportBarGuy: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

You need a crash for a reset and buying point for a large group of people. Aside from the, it's regional boom and busts... People who think we're going to get 2008 again are largely in for disappointment.

You need an economic collapse on a pretty big scale to do that, and at that point you're worried about everything else aside from owning a house.

People had from 2009-2015 to jump into some insanely affordable real estate. Those that did made a ton of money... Those that did not... well...

Bought our house in 2011 and it was a pretty good time.  While I think we paid a little more than it was worth at the time, but the interest rates were ridiculously low and we ended up refinancing a year later to take advantage of even lower interest rates.  (under 3% at the time)

You hit the perfect sweet spot. Bought mine in 2013... bit higher, but wayyyyyyyyyyy under current valuation, which when it comes down will still be 100%+ over what I paid.

It was probably the greatest time to buy any kind of property in history and we're not going to see something like that again in our lifetimes.

It sucks because everyone saw that and is waiting for it to happen again hoping they can take advantage. It seldom works like that.


I bought my 3000 sq ft. house in 2009 at the bottom of the crash for $174,000.  Got the Obama era $8,000 housing credit.  I refinanced two years later to a 15 year loan at 2.875%.  Fast forward elevent years, and I have four years of payments left, pay $969 for mortgage a month (plus another $300 or so in insurance and taxes), house is worth about $375k in the modern market.  This is how to grow wealth.  Houses on my street are renting for $2600 to $3000 a month, and after paying a corporation that money, the people living in them have no wealth accumulation.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:35:46 PM  

NewportBarGuy: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

You need a crash for a reset and buying point for a large group of people. Aside from the, it's regional boom and busts... People who think we're going to get 2008 again are largely in for disappointment.

You need an economic collapse on a pretty big scale to do that, and at that point you're worried about everything else aside from owning a house.

People had from 2009-2015 to jump into some insanely affordable real estate. Those that did made a ton of money... Those that did not... well...


I'm not looking for a crash - rapid devaluation like we saw in the late '00s really farked a lot of people out of their homes. I'm hoping it can hold prices steady enough to push the corporate buyers into a different investment area, freeing housing up for people when the rest of the economy like wages and regular inflation catch up a bit - that should normalize things enough to also release inventory.

I would advocate that non-commercial properties should see higher taxation when they're vacant for anything beyond a reasonable stretch between tenants, that might help create some downward pressure on rents and allow more people to find affordable housing.
 
mcreadyblue
2022-12-01 12:37:24 PM  

Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind


Not in Kansas City.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Barricaded Gunman
2022-12-01 12:39:17 PM  

SpectroBoy: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

Bullshiat.


Ditto on this. You won't be overlooking Central Park or within walking distance of Muirwood National Park, but $400,000 will buy you plenty of house in desireable areas with plenty of amenities.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:40:39 PM  

Fooshards: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

"Limit" isn't a word in the vocabulary of well-technical'ed finance firms.  They have the equivalent of a Jenkins server that can pump out a full-auto managed LLC for every property.  I think a literal freeze for $x years on corporate purchases of single family housing is the only way to cool it down.  And even then, the current corpo model is just a way to insulate dubiously sourced cash from scrutiny/loss/taxation, so that same flow will just be redirected elsewhere.   Maybe we should put more automatic, unavoidable taxation collection in that corp cashflow process.


I'll take a freeze. But also a heavy non-loopholed direct tax on corporate-owned non-commercial single-family properties. Tax should be aggressive enough to get these companies to start shedding inventory.
 
Fooshards
2022-12-01 12:40:56 PM  
dr_blasto: <snip>  

I would advocate that non-commercial properties should see higher taxation when they're vacant for anything beyond a reasonable stretch between tenants, that might help create some downward pressure on rents and allow more people to find affordable housing.

Thats the cute part of corpos beginning to be owners of all that property - they'll never vote to tax themselves.  And they will all vote to protect each others scheme like a crime organization, without any organization necessary.  It's pretty much the model of Public traded companies.  Become an owner and ignore the rules; nobody can collect anyways if you starve them out
 
mcreadyblue
2022-12-01 12:42:33 PM  

dr_blasto: Dr.Fey: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

I'm no expert, but I dunno if it works that way.  When I've paid attention, it seems when rates go up, prices go down.  When rates come down, prices go up.  Either your house will cost a lot, or your mortgage will cost a lot.  Can you get the best of both worlds?

There's a lag in that transition. Rates drop and purchases pick up; when they start putting pressure on inventory, prices increase more rapidly.

I'd also like to see heavy tax penalties for vacant or second properties. Buying, holding and not using housing is a blight and part of the reason inventory was squeezed so much recently.


You do realize that would be around 40% of the houses in the US?
 
NewportBarGuy [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:43:35 PM  

mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image 425x744]


That looks like where Kirk Cameron had his birthday party.
 
Dr.Fey [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:44:29 PM  

dr_blasto: I'd also like to see heavy tax penalties for vacant or second properties.


Yes, although I would either say third properties or at least have a 2-3(?) year grace period.  A relative dies and a house is inherited, couples that had two separate houses that get married, or whatever.  There are lots of reasons folks can end up with two houses, and shouldn't get "penalized" or forced to sell within a relatively short period of time.  These aren't the folks causing the housing shortage like some corporation or slumlord buying up properties to rent.  But yeah, the point is valid.
 
Fooshards
2022-12-01 12:46:06 PM  

dr_blasto: Fooshards: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

"Limit" isn't a word in the vocabulary of well-technical'ed finance firms.  They have the equivalent of a Jenkins server that can pump out a full-auto managed LLC for every property.  I think a literal freeze for $x years on corporate purchases of single family housing is the only way to cool it down.  And even then, the current corpo model is just a way to insulate dubiously sourced cash from scrutiny/loss/taxation, so that same flow will just be redirected elsewhere.   Maybe we should put more automatic, unavoidable taxation collection in that corp cashflow process.

I'll take a freeze. But also a heavy non-loopholed direct tax on corporate-owned non-commercial single-family properties. Tax should be aggressive enough to get these companies to start shedding inventory.


Tax will never happen, don't count on it.  As long as the owners are the voting bloc to control their own taxation; corpos will NEVER ever allow it.  They've already learned that if a tax bill is going to come for $500k; that means they get to spend $450k on bribes to make that tax bill go away -- and come out ahead.  It is understood and internalized so efficiently that they all coalesce around this strategy.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:48:21 PM  

mcreadyblue: dr_blasto: Dr.Fey: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

I'm no expert, but I dunno if it works that way.  When I've paid attention, it seems when rates go up, prices go down.  When rates come down, prices go up.  Either your house will cost a lot, or your mortgage will cost a lot.  Can you get the best of both worlds?

There's a lag in that transition. Rates drop and purchases pick up; when they start putting pressure on inventory, prices increase more rapidly.

I'd also like to see heavy tax penalties for vacant or second properties. Buying, holding and not using housing is a blight and part of the reason inventory was squeezed so much recently.

You do realize that would be around 40% of the houses in the US?


There are a ton of people who need housing.
 
Fooshards
2022-12-01 12:49:55 PM  

mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image 425x744]


Awww look at that, how cute, Kansas city is trying to be a real city!

//but for real; that's awful and very misvalued, looks like an abandoned art showroom with lawn chairs.
 
jake3988 [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:50:09 PM  

Dr.Fey: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

I'm no expert, but I dunno if it works that way.  When I've paid attention, it seems when rates go up, prices go down.  When rates come down, prices go up.  Either your house will cost a lot, or your mortgage will cost a lot.  Can you get the best of both worlds?


That's literally what they're saying.  Interest rates going up will, by its very nature, push prices down.

It's the market at work.  No entity is 'setting the price'.  The price is literally whatever people are willing and able to pay.  These days, it's a lot.  Wages are going up and until very recently, interest rates were super low.  As a result, the price of house you can afford goes way up... so prices go way up.

It's only really impactful for people like me who want to save up and pay cash for a house and not worry about a mortgage.  Because so many people only give a crap about monthly payments (and ignore the insane amount of interest you're paying).

I like being responsible with my money and not having to pay hundreds of thousands in interest matters to me in the long run (because it does!).  But I can't really do that in a low-interest market where the prices of houses are out of control because of low monthly payments.

Now if I wait a little until prices start falling... I'll happily take advantage.

/And if you're wondering 'why the hell does the prices not come down super quick'... well, if you vastly overpaid for your house, would you be willing to take a giant loss on it?  I doubt it.  Unless you get desperate.
 
Wine Sipping Elitist [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 12:51:49 PM  

Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.


Move out of the city, live like a King.

I bought my house and land in 2003 for 130k when McMansions on a 1/4 acre plot were going for 250k+. My home is worth 350k now and those McMansions look like trash. I don't EVER hear police sirens, I know my neighbors and the owners of the stores I frequent, and the air is clean. There's plenty of Asian 'massage' parlors and bars around so you won't get too bored.
 
hej
2022-12-01 12:52:07 PM  

mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image 425x744]


That's downtown, not in the 'burbs.  I'm on the edge of town and $400k would indeed seem to get you a pretty good sized McMansion.
 
12349876
2022-12-01 12:53:02 PM  

mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image image 425x744]


Ooh, you found a hipster downtown loft.  Now find a quiet subdivision 30 minutes from downtown.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:54:27 PM  

Fooshards: dr_blasto: Fooshards: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

"Limit" isn't a word in the vocabulary of well-technical'ed finance firms.  They have the equivalent of a Jenkins server that can pump out a full-auto managed LLC for every property.  I think a literal freeze for $x years on corporate purchases of single family housing is the only way to cool it down.  And even then, the current corpo model is just a way to insulate dubiously sourced cash from scrutiny/loss/taxation, so that same flow will just be redirected elsewhere.   Maybe we should put more automatic, unavoidable taxation collection in that corp cashflow process.

I'll take a freeze. But also a heavy non-loopholed direct tax on corporate-owned non-commercial single-family properties. Tax should be aggressive enough to get these companies to start shedding inventory.

Tax will never happen, don't count on it.  As long as the owners are the voting bloc to control their own taxation; corpos will NEVER ever allow it.  They've already learned that if a tax bill is going to come for $500k; that means they get to spend $450k on bribes to make that tax bill go away -- and come out ahead.  It is understood and internalized so efficiently that they all coalesce around this strategy.


I also want 100% of healthcare paid from our taxes, a MASSIVE reduction in defense, dramatic increase in minimum wage, taxation of financial markets annd instruments, stiff tax penalties for deferred compensation to executives, mandatory labor seats on corporate boards, and many other policies that favor labor over industry in every sector.

I'm never going to see that shiat, but it would all be sound policy that would move this country into a more prosperous future.
 
dr_blasto [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-12-01 12:57:27 PM  

12349876: mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image image 425x744]

Ooh, you found a hipster downtown loft.  Now find a quiet subdivision 30 minutes from downtown.


Those 'hipster' lofts drove the working class out of these areas and forced them to commute when they used to be inexpensive and cheap housing for people who worked in the shops in those areas.
 
Fooshards
2022-12-01 1:01:56 PM  

dr_blasto: Fooshards: dr_blasto: Fooshards: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

But I think the better idea is to limit corporate purchasing of single-family residences and whatever other actions that would make selling to individuals to live in as opposed to use as investment vehicles would be the best long-term option for the country.

"Limit" isn't a word in the vocabulary of well-technical'ed finance firms.  They have the equivalent of a Jenkins server that can pump out a full-auto managed LLC for every property.  I think a literal freeze for $x years on corporate purchases of single family housing is the only way to cool it down.  And even then, the current corpo model is just a way to insulate dubiously sourced cash from scrutiny/loss/taxation, so that same flow will just be redirected elsewhere.   Maybe we should put more automatic, unavoidable taxation collection in that corp cashflow process.

I'll take a freeze. But also a heavy non-loopholed direct tax on corporate-owned non-commercial single-family properties. Tax should be aggressive enough to get these companies to start shedding inventory.

Tax will never happen, don't count on it.  As long as the owners are the voting bloc to control their own taxation; corpos will NEVER ever allow it.  They've already learned that if a tax bill is going to come for $500k; that means they get to spend $450k on bribes to make that tax bill go away -- and come out ahead.  It is understood and internalized so efficiently that they all coalesce around this strategy.

I also want 100% of healthcare paid from our taxes, a MASSIVE reduction in defense, dramatic increase in minimum wage, taxation of financial markets annd instruments, stiff tax penalties for deferred compensation to executives, mandatory labor seats on corporate boards, and many other policies that favor labor over industry in every sector.

I'm never going to see th ...


I want those things too, but we gotta ack reality and use metagame skills against the people currently using game skills against the system.  We're not on a clean slate.  We're in an already-captured system, so first step of actions is to break the momentum to learn how much can actually be changed.
 
tobcc
2022-12-01 1:08:06 PM  

mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image 425x744]


Whole bunch, great schools included.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/Liberty,-MO_rb/
 
OccamsWhiskers
2022-12-01 1:10:30 PM  

jake3988: It's only really impactful for people like me who want to save up and pay cash for a house and not worry about a mortgage. Because so many people only give a crap about monthly payments (and ignore the insane amount of interest you're paying).

I like being responsible with my money and not having to pay hundreds of thousands in interest matters to me in the long run (because it does!).


Viewing all interest costs as wasteful and foolish is a gross oversimplification and objectively wrong. Home ownership isn't for everyone, but if your plan is to save up to buy a house without a mortgage, that doesn't sound like it's the case for you.

Are you in the US? A fixed 30-year loan that you can pay off with no penalty is a fantastic deal. You'd have to ignore the vast majority of common cases to conclude that people successfully building or maintaining wealth never borrow.
 
hej
2022-12-01 1:11:05 PM  

Dr.Fey: Can you get the best of both worlds?


If you want to live in an undesirable location, sure.
 
madgonad [OhFark]
2022-12-01 1:12:01 PM  

mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image 425x744]


Downtown Kansas City is pretty damn hot, even now. Nowhere near enough supply. Luxury apartments/condos are being built quickly and most of the old warehouses have been converted.

The linked property is right in the middle of Westport which is a huge attraction and less than a mile from the Plaza. The 1BR units in the 4 story building are selling for over $300k. The area is very walkable and will soon have free streetcar service that go from downtown to the university.
 
madgonad [OhFark]
2022-12-01 1:13:18 PM  

tobcc: mcreadyblue: Fooshards: Lexx: Kornchex: Like $400,000 homes exist.

They do.  Just nowhere anyone sane would choose to make a life.

lolwut

I assure you a 400k home in the midwest will be a literal palace to the opulence of mankind

Not in Kansas City.

[Fark user image 425x744]

Whole bunch, great schools included.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/Liberty,-MO_rb/


My rural/suburban town is a pretty nice place.
 
FormlessOne
2022-12-01 1:17:34 PM  
According to Brian Walsh, a CFP and senior manager of financial planning for SoFi, a fintech company, your net, or take-home, pay should be roughly between $10,500 to $11,000 per month to afford a $400,000 house. As an annual salary, that would amount to between $165,000 to $195,000 depending on your state of residence, tax filing status, and other withholdings, Walsh said.

Median nation-wide price of a home, 2022: $428,700
Median nation-wide income, 2021: $45,760
Number of households that make at least $165,000, 2021: less than 8%

The average person can't afford the average house. The average couple can't afford the average house. In fact, about 92% of Americans can't afford the average house.

That's the problem.
 
FormlessOne
2022-12-01 1:18:34 PM  
I can't emphasize this enough - the price of a house in that article is less than the median price of a house in America.
 
madgonad [OhFark]
2022-12-01 1:22:04 PM  

FormlessOne: According to Brian Walsh, a CFP and senior manager of financial planning for SoFi, a fintech company, your net, or take-home, pay should be roughly between $10,500 to $11,000 per month to afford a $400,000 house. As an annual salary, that would amount to between $165,000 to $195,000 depending on your state of residence, tax filing status, and other withholdings, Walsh said.

Median nation-wide price of a home, 2022: $428,700
Median nation-wide income, 2021: $45,760
Number of households that make at least $165,000, 2021: less than 8%

The average person can't afford the average house. The average couple can't afford the average house. In fact, about 92% of Americans can't afford the average house.

That's the problem.


Most homes are purchased by households with more than one income.
 
FormlessOne
2022-12-01 1:27:33 PM  

madgonad: FormlessOne: According to Brian Walsh, a CFP and senior manager of financial planning for SoFi, a fintech company, your net, or take-home, pay should be roughly between $10,500 to $11,000 per month to afford a $400,000 house. As an annual salary, that would amount to between $165,000 to $195,000 depending on your state of residence, tax filing status, and other withholdings, Walsh said.

Median nation-wide price of a home, 2022: $428,700
Median nation-wide income, 2021: $45,760
Number of households that make at least $165,000, 2021: less than 8%

The average person can't afford the average house. The average couple can't afford the average house. In fact, about 92% of Americans can't afford the average house.

That's the problem.

Most homes are purchased by households with more than one income.


Hence the bolded part. $45,760 * 2 = $91,520. Unless you've a very liberal foursome, you're not getting a house.
 
OptionC [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 1:49:38 PM  

FormlessOne: According to Brian Walsh, a CFP and senior manager of financial planning for SoFi, a fintech company, your net, or take-home, pay should be roughly between $10,500 to $11,000 per month to afford a $400,000 house. As an annual salary, that would amount to between $165,000 to $195,000 depending on your state of residence, tax filing status, and other withholdings, Walsh said.

Median nation-wide price of a home, 2022: $428,700
Median nation-wide income, 2021: $45,760
Number of households that make at least $165,000, 2021: less than 8%

The average person can't afford the average house. The average couple can't afford the average house. In fact, about 92% of Americans can't afford the average house.

That's the problem.


The median household already owns a house.

And using the entire income distribution is ridiculous - that includes 18 year-olds and *tons* of retirees.  For the people who are in the age range that is actually buying houses, both individual and household income is substantially higher.
 
madgonad [OhFark]
2022-12-01 1:50:01 PM  

FormlessOne: madgonad: FormlessOne: According to Brian Walsh, a CFP and senior manager of financial planning for SoFi, a fintech company, your net, or take-home, pay should be roughly between $10,500 to $11,000 per month to afford a $400,000 house. As an annual salary, that would amount to between $165,000 to $195,000 depending on your state of residence, tax filing status, and other withholdings, Walsh said.

Median nation-wide price of a home, 2022: $428,700
Median nation-wide income, 2021: $45,760
Number of households that make at least $165,000, 2021: less than 8%

The average person can't afford the average house. The average couple can't afford the average house. In fact, about 92% of Americans can't afford the average house.

That's the problem.

Most homes are purchased by households with more than one income.

Hence the bolded part. $45,760 * 2 = $91,520. Unless you've a very liberal foursome, you're not getting a house.


Your median numbers are flawed or old. The median salary of full time workers is $54k. Shouldn't count part-timers or retirees. Also only around 60% of workers own their homes.

Now the most interesting number is that the median income of homeowners is now $86k - quite a bit over the broader median. Two $86k salaries can certainly qualify for a $450k house. It isn't a surprise because that is what is happening.

Part of the problem is that developers are making a fortune. Check these two homes out. They are a few blocks apart and I might even consider the cheaper one to be in a slightly more desirable part of the neighborhood.
Fark user imageView Full Size
Fark user imageView Full Size

Basically the same house and the new one costs double.
 
OptionC [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 1:55:20 PM  

madgonad: FormlessOne: madgonad: FormlessOne: According to Brian Walsh, a CFP and senior manager of financial planning for SoFi, a fintech company, your net, or take-home, pay should be roughly between $10,500 to $11,000 per month to afford a $400,000 house. As an annual salary, that would amount to between $165,000 to $195,000 depending on your state of residence, tax filing status, and other withholdings, Walsh said.

Median nation-wide price of a home, 2022: $428,700
Median nation-wide income, 2021: $45,760
Number of households that make at least $165,000, 2021: less than 8%

The average person can't afford the average house. The average couple can't afford the average house. In fact, about 92% of Americans can't afford the average house.

That's the problem.

Most homes are purchased by households with more than one income.

Hence the bolded part. $45,760 * 2 = $91,520. Unless you've a very liberal foursome, you're not getting a house.

Your median numbers are flawed or old. The median salary of full time workers is $54k. Shouldn't count part-timers or retirees. Also only around 60% of workers own their homes.

Now the most interesting number is that the median income of homeowners is now $86k - quite a bit over the broader median. Two $86k salaries can certainly qualify for a $450k house. It isn't a surprise because that is what is happening.

Part of the problem is that developers are making a fortune. Check these two homes out. They are a few blocks apart and I might even consider the cheaper one to be in a slightly more desirable part of the neighborhood.
[Fark user image 719x295][Fark user image 719x295]
Basically the same house and the new one costs double.


Umm, without looking at interiors, wtf is up with that price disparity?  The cheaper one actually looks a lot like my house, which would still would sell in the ballpark of a similar new home (though obviously not quite as much).

Has nothing been updated?
 
Intrepid00 [TotalFark]
2022-12-01 2:02:08 PM  

Dr.Fey: dr_blasto: Whatever stops the insane housing prices is going to help a lot of real people in the long run when those rates come back down.

I'm no expert, but I dunno if it works that way.  When I've paid attention, it seems when rates go up, prices go down.  When rates come down, prices go up.  Either your house will cost a lot, or your mortgage will cost a lot.  Can you get the best of both worlds?


You can if you fall ass backwards into a house like at the low point and then refi.
 
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